Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)

[NoahStar]

No.

In her normal forme Meloetta is far too slow to be threatening, and has to take a turn to turn into her (admittedly much better) pirouette forme. The fact that she has to waste an entire turn to be at her most useful makes her FAR from A+. If we're going to rank her, she should be somewhere in C (I could maybe be convinced on B-).

This isn't a good argument against Meloetta anymore. We have 5 Pokemon in the S-Rank tier that need to spend a turn to reach a better and more threatening forme (read: Mega Pokemon). The reason Meloetta isn't that great is because it has to use up a moveslot on an otherwise subpar move to change its form. Meloetta-A is also pretty slow and has a bad base 77 physical defense which makes her pretty vulnerable to the many physical monsters that roam OU. The worst part is that Aegislash completely shuts down Meloetta and blocks Relic Song so that she can't change, Genesect OHKO's with a boosted U-Turn that he's guarunteed to get against her, and she can't really do much to anything above the A- tier.

If anything, I would but her in C-

 

[Salt]

This isn't a good argument against Meloetta anymore. We have 5 Pokemon in the S-Rank tier that need to spend a turn to reach a better and more threatening forme (read: Mega Pokemon). The reason Meloetta isn't that great is because it has to use up a moveslot on an otherwise subpar move to change its form. Meloetta-A is also pretty slow and has a bad base 77 physical defense which makes her pretty vulnerable to the many physical monsters that roam OU. The worst part is that Aegislash completely shuts down Meloetta and blocks Relic Song so that she can't change, Genesect OHKO's with a boosted U-Turn that he's guarunteed to get against her, and she can't really do much to anything above the A- tier.

If anything, I would but her in C-

Mega Pokemon don't take a turn to Mega Evolve, as they can make a move the same turn they do so. This is unlike Meloetta who has to use a specific move to switch formes.

 

[Remc⓪]

What do you guys feel about

? With less rain running its day, talonflame and flying friends becoming more common he can actually wreck a lot of top tier pokemon. Depending on the set and ev spread he is capable to wall;
Physically Defensive evs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def; Talonflame, Charizard X, Dragonite, Excadrill, Aegislash, Mega Pinsir, and physical Genesect.
He has many options and can play as a tank, physical attacker, assault vest, or like above Physically Defensive. It is hard to outright stop him because he has superb coverage options to get pass bulky grass types and Gliscor and Lando T. His main moves alone make him threaten common defogers like Tyrantitar; which should be A+.The only pokemon I think that beat him 1v1 no matter what is Rotom W, Keldeo, Manaphy, Gyrados, Roserade, Mega CharY, and Mega Venusaur. I feel B- or C+ may be fitting.

-Rhyperior Surviving Stuff;
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-252 Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 120 HP / 12 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 339-399 (84.5 - 99.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO so close
-252+ Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Lucario: 422-498 (150.1 - 177.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 120 HP / 124 SpD Assault Vest Solid Rock Rhyperior: 306-363 (76.3 - 90.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
-252+ Atk Rhyperior Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Landorus: 416-492 (130 - 153.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 120 HP / 12 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 231-274 (57.6 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
-252+ Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 414-488 (128.1 - 151%) -- guaranteed OHKO
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Iron Head vs. 120 HP / 12 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 292-346 (72.8 - 86.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
-252+ Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Mawile: 314-372 (103.2 - 122.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 120 HP / 12 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 127-153 (31.6 - 38.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
-252+ Atk Rhyperior Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 384-452 (111.6 - 131.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-252 Atk Mega Charizard X Earthquake vs. 120 HP / 12 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 129-153 (32.1 - 38.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
-252+ Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 348-410 (117.1 - 138%) -- guaranteed OHKO
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-+2 252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 120 HP / 12 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 283-334 (70.5 - 83.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
-252+ Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Blade: 656-774 (202.4 - 238.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

I'm only using the Physical Attacker set.

Wish passers are highly needed on this one but if you keep him out of grass and water types and strong special sweepers, your all good.

I'm bringing this back because I didn't write this for nothing. (Ｔ＿Ｔ)

 

[LoDart210]

I'm bringing this back because I didn't write this for nothing. (Ｔ＿Ｔ)

I dunno. Surviving with 15<% HP just to take out one Pokemon seems to me like just breaking even. What's a slow Pokemon like rhyperior going to do after it KOs its opponent?

 

[Remc⓪]

Probably just switch, wish pass support is kinda mandatory if you want this guy alive. He can play like a bulky staraptor, guaranteeing a kill but his death is inevitable. C+ to C- may be fitting.

 

[WhinoTheRhino]

Gyarados (both):
It's really hard to come up with a worthwhile argument on paper to say why Gyarados isn't worthy of A ranking. In practice, it's insanely easy to fit on an electric or rock type move to deal with normal Gyarados and the weaknesses just increase when you add on Dark in Mevoing. You don't have to worry about using certain EV spreads or moves for Gyara let alone run dedicated counters for it because it's so easy to prepare for in general when team building. Intimidate is not exactly bad, but Rotom-W is so common that Gyarados has a hard time coming in without thinking of Rotom waiting for it. It's still a very good Pokemon, just easy to not worry about Gyarados when in game when some things in A prevent you from wanting to use certain moves (Bisharp) or aren't as easy to naturally prepare for (Gengar).

You name Rotom-W as a large threat to Gyarados, but Mega Gyarados can OHKO Rotomo-W with Mold Breaker Earthquake.

 

[Haru Piro]

I'm bringing this back because I didn't write this for nothing. (Ｔ＿Ｔ)

Well, is a nice ZardX/Thundi/Scizor check, counter Talon, and can RK some things (but need full health...), but well, you know, TTar exist and with two x3 (solid rock) weakness..., Rhyperior is cool but outclassed, C rank sounds good for him (or... C-?).

 

[GlassGlaceon]

from personal experience, i can tell you it does NOT ohko max hp rotom w/ any defense investment, and ADAMANT gyara-mega only has a 6.3% chance to kill. Also, that's only mega-gyarados. Regular gyara b4 mega evo is completely shut down by rotom wash. only way wash dies is from a +1 EQ from mega gyara, and gyara does not want to stay in on rotom, as it can either get damaged hard b volt/bolt or crippled w/ willo.

 

[Salt]

There are a few Megas that have yet to be ranked. I'm going to nominate them, seeing as how every Mega evolution should be good enough to be used in OU at least. None aren't viable choices.

Mega Aggron for B+/B

252+ Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 225-265 (65.4 - 77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
That calc is just there to illustrate Mega Aggron's bulk. That's the strongest Physical attack in the game that Mega Aggron just happens to be weak to. Mega Aggron doesn't even come close to dying. When you have a wall that doesn't die to any unboosted physical attack in the game, you know that Mega Aggron is definitely worth the Mega slot if you have the right teammates for it. Mega Aggron's physical bulk is so great that it can leave it completely uninvested and still take hits from a significant amount of physical attackers.

252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 117-139 (34 - 40.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Aggron: 114-135 (33.1 - 39.2%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Filter Mega Aggron: 168-199 (48.8 - 57.8%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO

Most physical attackers would need boosts to break through it, but setting up on Mega Aggron isn't a wise choice as it has base 140 Attack, and a strong STAB Heavy Slam which hurts much of the lighter metagame. It also can phaze with Roar/Dragon Tail. However, having no recovery outside of Rest + Sleep Talk holds it back from being the perfect tank, as Rest-talk is a bit unreliable even though sleep mechanics have changed back to Gen IV mechanics. However, that flaw shouldn't hold back Mega Aggron from a B ranking as it isn't as bad a flaw as it would have been last generation.

Mega Banette for C+

Mega Banette is a bit of an oddball. It certainly isn't the first choice for your Mega slot, and for good reason. Mega Banette didn't really get the stat boosts it needed. It got an amazing ability in Prankster, and it has access to some of the best moves which benefit from this such as Destiny Bond, Will-o-wisp, and Thunder Wave. But instead of getting a much needed increase to its bulk, it got a rather redundant boost to its Attack. Sitting at 165, Mega Banette has one of the highest Attack stats available, but only has a few moves to abuse this with; Shadow Claw, Sucker Punch, and Shadow Sneak are the most significant. The Mega Evolution mechanics also hurt Banette the most, as Prankster isn't activated the turn that it Mega evolves. Banette is very strong and has useful tools such as Prankster Destiny Bond, but being a Mega where stronger ones are available holds it back. I don't think it should go higher than C+.

Mega Houndoom for B-
Mega Houndoom is powerful and fast, with 140 Special Attack and 115 Speed. Coupled with a STAB combination that few Pokemon resist, and boosting moves in Nasty Plot and Sunny Day (because of Solar Power) Mega Houndoom looks like a threatening special sweeper. However, Mega Houndoom competes with other Megas, especially Mega Charizard Y as a Fire-type special attacker. It's also quite frail, which means boosting is hard and sweeping isn't an easy task either with the large amount of priority in this metagame. One must not count Mega Houndoom as a threat though, because it's still extremely powerful when it does get a Nasty Plot boost and sun support.

Mega Ampharos for B-/C+
Mega Ampharos has an incredibly interesting Electric/Dragon typing, giving it great coverage with its STABs and many useful resistances. With great 90/105/110 bulk and a gigantic 165 Special Attack stat, Mega Ampharos looks like a solid Pokemon. It's very slow, sitting at 45 Speed, but this can work to its advantage by taking hits and then using a slow and powerful Volt Switch to bring a teammate in safely. However, one major thing hold Mega Ampharos back: absolutely no reliable recovery. This is a huge setback for a bulky pivot like Ampharos, as it becomes very easy to wear down. Strong neutral hits or supereffective attacks combined with hazards quickly bring Mega Ampharos down, making it an underwhelming choice as a Mega Pokemon.

Reposting this since I feel that each of these Pokemon deserve a ranking and this post went completely unnoticed.

 

[Mr. Rating]

No.

In her normal forme Meloetta is far too slow to be threatening, and has to take a turn to turn into her (admittedly much better) pirouette forme. The fact that she has to waste an entire turn to be at her most useful makes her FAR from A+. If we're going to rank her, she should be somewhere in C (I could maybe be convinced on B-).


Thundy-T is basically completely outclassed by I, which is why it's in C currently. However, the fact that it does have significantly more power gives it an important niche and I would definitely agree with a bump to B- or B. Also, I believe it does the Agility set better than Thundurus-I due to its higher unboosted special attack (nobody cares about 101 / 111 speed at +2).

This isn't a good argument against Meloetta anymore. We have 5 Pokemon in the S-Rank tier that need to spend a turn to reach a better and more threatening forme (read: Mega Pokemon). The reason Meloetta isn't that great is because it has to use up a moveslot on an otherwise subpar move to change its form. Meloetta-A is also pretty slow and has a bad base 77 physical defense which makes her pretty vulnerable to the many physical monsters that roam OU. The worst part is that Aegislash completely shuts down Meloetta and blocks Relic Song so that she can't change, Genesect OHKO's with a boosted U-Turn that he's guarunteed to get against her, and she can't really do much to anything above the A- tier.

If anything, I would but her in C-

Na na na guys, think of Relic Song this way. You have a one in five chance of screwing your opponent by putting 'um to sleep with a STAB move, and in addition you can mess with 'em by switching Formes constantly. Thunderbolt will take care of that Talonflame and several Water types, also with a good chance of paralyzing them. Psychic can pack quite a punch and even lower the Special Defense, and Close Combat just kicks ass. This girl's top tier, A+ all the way, learn yo Pokemon kids.

 

[NoahStar]

Na na na guys, think of Relic Song this way. You have a one in five chance of screwing your opponent by putting 'um to sleep with a STAB move, and in addition you can mess with 'em by switching Formes constantly. Thunderbolt will take care of that Talonflame and several Water types, also with a good chance of paralyzing them. Psychic can pack quite a punch and even lower the Special Defense, and Close Combat just kicks ass. This girl's top tier, A+ all the way, learn yo Pokemon kids.

Until, and I stress, Aegislash, Genesect, Gengar, Heatran, Scizor, Tyranitar, Bisharp, or Mandibuzz switch in and either wall it completely or threaten it out. You have to remember that Relic Song has to hit for the form change to take effect and since Ghost and Dark are two of the leading offensive types this gen, Meloetta will rarely have a chance to do anything.

 

[Salt]

Na na na guys, think of Relic Song this way. You have a one in five chance of screwing your opponent by putting 'um to sleep with a STAB move, and in addition you can mess with 'em by switching Formes constantly. Thunderbolt will take care of that Talonflame and several Water types, also with a good chance of paralyzing them. Psychic can pack quite a punch and even lower the Special Defense, and Close Combat just kicks ass. This girl's top tier, A+ all the way, learn yo Pokemon kids.

...I don't understand most of your logic here. First off, Meloetta is definitely not up with the likes of Heatran, Manaphy, and Landorus-I because of a one in five chance of sleeping the opponent. Besides that, you also mention Psychic's SpDef drop and T-bolt's Para, but even with Serene Grace it's still a pretty low chance. Potential hax is DEFINITELY NOT a way to measure a Pokemon's viability, unless you're a SwagPlay user (bleh) or Togekiss/Jirachi (who are viable outside of paraflinch). Plus, Aegislash utterly walls Meloetta (as stated before but you seemed to ignore that). Aegislash is one of the most threatening and most common Pokemon in OU, and getting walled by it isn't a good thing. Bulk and power in Aria Forme is average, and Relic Song is hard to pull off in practice. There isn't any way at all that Meloetta is making any better than B.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Meloetta should not be anywhere near A Rank in my opinion. Aside from the fact that it receives rather low usage right now, Meloetta does have some issues. Firstly, Psychic is quite a subpar typing in OU right now; Bisharp and Greninja are both quite common right now and can hit it pretty hard, along with U-turn (Genesect, anyone?), and to some extent Scolipede and Galvantula are decently common. While the form switching is nice and does give Meloetta a niche, Relic Song in itself is not that great of a move, and although that is, Relic Song is weak and there is a type immunity to it. It's not a top threat at all, it's more of a B- or C mon tbh.

 

[NoahStar]

I just realized something; is Meloetta even getting an OU analysis this gen? It barely got one last gen and its usage is even lower now.

 

[Yilx]

look i love meloetta and i think she is very cute but even i think she has very little place in OU if at all i am sorry

please don't do this to her

 

[Salt]

I just realized something; is Meloetta even getting an OU analysis this gen? It barely got one last gen and its usage is even lower now.

It's on the list of analyses in progress, so there isn't any real reason not to rank it now that it's been brought up. That said, we shouldn't spend too much time discussing it considering the... circumstances in which it was brought up. C is probably a good place for it.

Aside from the Meloetta discussion, I'd like to put attention back to my post about Mega rankings before this gets derailed again. Let's have some worthwhile discussion, please?

 

[Yilx]

Na man, Meloetta's OU, only real Pokemon battlers know how to use her to her fullest awesomeness. Unfortunately, I'm going to have to hand out some not so pretty consequences to those who disagree. You're not going to like them child, so you'd best rethink your ways. Your computer may not like them either, considering with the click of a button or two I can easily crash it. Your choice. Comply, or your computer dies. :)

 

[TheUltimateStorm]

Na man, Meloetta's OU, only real Pokemon battlers know how to use her to her fullest awesomeness. Unfortunately, I'm going to have to hand out some not so pretty consequences to those who disagree. You're not going to like them child, so you'd best rethink your ways. Your computer may not like them either, considering with the click of a button or two I can easily crash it. Your choice. Comply, or your computer dies. :)

Look, unless you want Meloetta to be blacklisted, you'll take what you can get. Meloetta's big niche was the fact that it could change radically depending on if Relic Song hit, but now that Megas basically do that but better, Meloetta's niche is far less valuable. I don't see what Meloetta got this gen when the fact that Dark and Ghost moves are everywhere and just a much more harsh Metagame, while Meloetta's gotten nothing of note to help it in XY, I'll agree that Meloetta's a C+ rank. Can you honestly convince me that in terms of defensive, offensive or supportive roles Meloetta comes close to Talonflame, Deoxys S or Heatran and Garchomp?

 

[Aragorn the King]

Look, unless you want Meloetta to be blacklisted, you'll take what you can get. Meloetta's big niche was the fact that it could change radically depending on if Relic Song hit, but now that Megas basically do that but better, Meloetta's niche is far less valuable. I don't see what Meloetta got this gen when the fact that Dark and Ghost moves are everywhere and just a much more harsh Metagame, while Meloetta's gotten nothing of note to help it in XY, I'll agree that Meloetta's a C+ rank. Can you honestly convince me that in terms of defensive, offensive or supportive roles Meloetta comes close to Talonflame, Deoxys S or Heatran and Garchomp?

Why would she care about ghost moves? She is immune to them. Sure, she won't enjoy Ghost types being immune to hyper voice/relic song, but she doesn't care about their STAB moves.

 

[TheUltimateStorm]

Why would she care about ghost moves? She is immune to them. Sure, she won't enjoy Ghost types being immune to hyper voice/relic song, but she doesn't care about their STAB moves.

Whoops, sorry about that, but still, the fact that Ghosts absolutely screw over Relic Song, the only way to switch formes, really puts a dent in her effectiveness, besides my question still remains, can Meleotta fill the same offensive, defensive or supportive niche that pretty much all of A+ fill? I highly doubt it.

 

[NoahStar]

Why would she care about ghost moves? She is immune to them. Sure, she won't enjoy Ghost types being immune to hyper voice/relic song, but she doesn't care about their STAB moves.

252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Meloetta: 198-234 (49 - 57.9%) -- 56.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

This is why. Being stuck with a base 77 defense is not a good thing. And this isn't the only reason why Meloetta has troubles

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Meloetta: 234-276 (57.9 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 4 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Meloetta: 330-390 (81.6 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Meloetta: 408-482 (100.9 - 119.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

These are all things that can easily come in on Meloetta. I'm sure you're starting to see my point.

 

[Haru Piro]

Well, AV and defensive Base-Form Meloetta can counter Gengar and check Aegislash. Ghost arent a issue.
And also check Rotom-W, MVenusaur, Alakazam, Latias, and many others.

C+ can be a good place for she, is a "ok" mon.
But, please, stop trolling, Black list is enough big.

 

[Seiterman]

252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Meloetta: 198-234 (49 - 57.9%) -- 56.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

This is why. Being stuck with a base 77 defense is not a good thing. And this isn't the only reason why Meloetta has troubles

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Meloetta: 234-276 (57.9 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 4 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Meloetta: 330-390 (81.6 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Meloetta: 408-482 (100.9 - 119.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Meloetta: 408-482 (100.9 - 119.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Meloetta: 408-482 (100.9 - 119.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

These are all things that can easily come in on Meloetta. I'm sure you're starting to see my point.

I'm pretty sure none of those are Ghost-type moves. Like, 99% sure.

Also I like how Mawile's Sucker Punch is there three times. I assume you meant to copy-paste other moves?

 

[alexwolf]

Mr. Rating, one more troll post and you are banned. And guys, stop replying to him, come on, i just deleted a ton of stupid posts...

Holy shit no. Keldeo is a complete nuke, there's just hardly any good switch ins for it. Azumarill can literally come in once (assuming its max hp and stealth rocks are not on the field, otherwise it can never come in), rotom-w is 2hkoed by secret sword regardless of the set, lati@s die to icy wind. The only viable answers nowadays are av tangrowth, av slowbro and mega venusaur, only the latter which is common. Its amazing how many teams keldeo can just run through with specs hydro pumps which makes it a great partner for just about any sweeper. I had previously nominated keldeo for A+ and after a lot more testing i am more conviced about this than ever.

Actually, yeah you are right, i underestimated its power, the metagame is really underprepared for Specs Hydro Pumps from 129 SpA atm, and most of the Pokemon i listed ar 2HKOed with SR up. A rank is fine for it, A+ is pushing it too much though.

 

[Aragorn the King]

252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Meloetta: 198-234 (49 - 57.9%) -- 56.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

This is why. Being stuck with a base 77 defense is not a good thing. And this isn't the only reason why Meloetta has troubles

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Meloetta: 234-276 (57.9 - 68.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 4 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Meloetta: 330-390 (81.6 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Meloetta: 408-482 (100.9 - 119.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Meloetta: 408-482 (100.9 - 119.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Meloetta: 408-482 (100.9 - 119.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

These are all things that can easily come in on Meloetta. I'm sure you're starting to see my point.

You misunderstood me. All I said was that Meloetta doesn't have to worry about ghost moves, nothing else. I was never arguing Meloetta's viability (which I believe should be C+ or B-), I was just correcting TheUltimateStorm.