Donphan [QC 0/3]

Ferendel

Ferendel

th_Donphan.gif

Overview
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-Access to Rapid Spin and Stealth Rock
-Knock Off buff allows it to more easily threaten spin blockers
-Great 90/120 Physical Bulk
-Solid 120 Attack
-Resists the ever present Stealth Rock
-60 Special Defense leaves it vulnerable to almost any special attacker
-Assault Vest allows its Special Defense to reach a solid 328
-Slow base 50 Speed
-Lacks immunities to hazards unlike many other hazard removers
-No reliable recovery causes other walls to often outclass it
-Weak to now even more common Ice and Grass types
-Largely outclassed by other popular spinners in the current meta-game, especially on offense-based teams

Set 1: Leftovers
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name: Rapid Spin
move 1: Rapid Spin
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Stealth Rock
move 4: Stone Edge/ Knock Off
ability: Sturdy
item: Leftovers
evs: 252HP/4Att/252Def
nature: Impish

Moves
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-Rapid Spin is the reason Donphan is actually used so it's a must
-Earthquake is the mandatory stab and deals a decent amount of damage off of Donphan's Base 120 Attack
-Stealth Rock is one of the main draws of using Leftovers over Assault Vest
-Stone Edge creates the popular EdgeQuake combo and threatens many foes that would normally set up on Donphan
-Knock Off threatens any spin blockers not threatened by Earthquake (Gengar, Jellicent, etc.) and adds even more utility to the set

Set Details
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-The EV spread and nature maximize physical bulk giving Donphan a lot of sustainability
-Leftovers adds to Donphan's sustainability and allows for more switch-ins
-Sturdy helps ensure that Donphan will get in at least one move, and is useful in situations where taking a strong special attack like Ice Beam then spinning is completely necessary
-Investment into attack is also an option if you want Donphan to fill more of a bulky attacker role and surprise opponents with a fairly potent STAB Earthquake but this detracts from Donphan's durability which is its main draw

Usage Tips
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-Switch Donphan in on a physical attack
-Spin, or use an attack against a predicted spin blocker then spin
-Set up Stealth Rock if possible.
-Donphan can get the occasional KO but spin and run tactics are his main draw.

Team Options
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-Usually added to teams that need a physically bulky spinner to aid sweepers
-Special walls help account for its abysmal Special Defense
-Anything weak to hazards (Charazard, Talonflame, etc.) benefits from its ability to control hazards
-Anything that resist its three weaknesses (Ice, Water, and Grass) helps
-Can also fit in fairly well on a stall team if it runs Roar
-Donphan's low speed, average attack, and respectable bulk leave it better suited for defensive or balanced teams than offensive ones.

Set 2: Assault Vest
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name: Rapid Spin
move 1: Rapid Spin
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Stone Edge
move 4: Knock Off
ability: Sturdy
item: Assault Vest
evs: 252HP/4Att/252SDef
nature: Careful

Moves
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-Again, Rapid Spin is Donphan's claim to fame so use it
-Earthquake is the mandatory stab and is a great counter to Aegislash on this set as Donphan can survive a Shadow Ball with Assault Vest and OHKO in return
-Stone Edge rounds off Donphan's coverage and allows it to check Zard-Y as its Assault Vest set can eat a sun-boosted Solar Beam or Fire Blast and OHKO in return
-Knock Off threatens any spin blockers not threatened by Earthquake (Gengar, Jellicent, etc.) and adds even more utility to the set


Set Details
========

-The EV spread and nature maximize special bulk to take full advantage of the Assault Vest
-Assault Vest allows Donphan to absorb special hits such as HP Ice from Thundurus-T, a Flash Cannon or Aura Sphere from Mega-Lucario, a Giga-Drain from +1 Volcarona , and even a Solar Beam or Fire Blast from Zard-Y. It tends to only be able to take one super effective hit, even with AV but can still check threats weak to EdgeQuake.
-Sturdy helps ensure that Donphan will get in at least one move, and is useful in situations where taking a strong super effective attack then spinning or using a super effective coverage move is completely necessary
-Investment into attack is also an option if you want Donphan to fill more of a bulky attacker role and surprise opponents with a fairly potent STAB Earthquake but this detracts from Donphan's durability which is its main draw

Usage Tips
========

-Switch Donphan in on a resisted attack if possible as it has no leftover recovery and less physical bulk
-Spin, or use a coverage move against a predicted spin blocker then spin
-Donphan can get certain KOs with this set and due to his mixed bulk functions as a decent lead

Team Options
========

-Usually added to teams that need a bulky spinner to aid sweepers
-Anything weak to hazards (Charazard, Talonflame, etc.) benefits from its ability to control hazards
-Anything that resist its three weaknesses (Ice, Water, and Grass) helps
-Donphan's low speed, average attack, and respectable bulk leave it better suited for defensive or balanced teams than offensive ones.

Other Options
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-Ice Shard can sometimes net KOs on weakened foes and helps account for Donphan's abysmal speed. Only use this on a fully attack-invested Donphan.
-Head Smash can KO a number of threats the QuakeEdge combo can't with some attack investment, though the low accuracy makes it even more of a gamble than Stone Edge
-Can act as a decent phaser using Roar
-Can use Rock Slide over Stone Edge for better accuracy
-Toxic can be used to cripple a number of common switch-ins but is often inferior to Knock-Off

Checks & Counters
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-Most Special Attackers, especially anything with Ice Beam and sometimes even Hidden Power Ice counter the Leftovers set
-Pokemon such as Rotom-W that aren't weak to the EdgeQuake combo and can easily KO in return
-Bulky water types
-Sweepers can easily break through the limited mixed bulk of Donphan's Assault Vest set, especially if they hit it on the switch or have Stealth Rock support to break sturdy
-Very strong Physical and Special attackers check Donphan, especially if they hit it on the switch
 
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I think you could mention how Ice Shard is good for netting a few KOs on weakened things as well as hitting Dragons.
 
Millky95 said:
I think you could mention how Ice Shard is good for netting a few KOs on weakened things as well as hitting Dragons.
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Even after Multiscale it only hits Dragonite for 24-29% without attack investment so it's really only used to hit foes 10% or lower, other than the occasional Salamance. Even Garchomp has an 84% chance to survive 2 hits from it.
 
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no, ice shard is not good at netting any KOs, I dont think it even 2hkos garchomp, a 4x weak. It's super, super weak and something like stone edge in that slot could be actually useful for checking talonflame or mega pinsir in a pinch
 
Would someone mind explaining to me why the first analysis was deleted a week ago only to start a new one now? Doesnt realy make sense to me especialy because the reason for deleting it was that he was deemed unviable.
 
Baharoth said:
Would someone mind explaining to me why the first analysis was deleted a week ago only to start a new one now? Doesnt realy make sense to me especialy because the reason for deleting it was that he was deemed unviable.
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it's ou therefore it needs an analysis. policy oversight
 
I run 6 speed ivs on Donphan, putting it at a speed stat of 111. This is one point slower than minimum speed Aegilash and allows Donphan to use Earthquake after tanking a Shadow Ball, which isn't too hard for Donphan to do with an Assault Vest.
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Donphan: 160-190 (41.6 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

And then OHKO in return:

4 Atk Donphan Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Blade: 440-518 (135.8 - 159.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
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Don't mention Ice Shard netting KOs. Instead, mention how it can catch Pokemon like Landorus-I and Garchomp as a revenge kill (though mention that the Pokemon have to be pretty weak). Though mention that Ice Shard should only be used on ADAMANT MAX ATTACK Donphan.
 
In the overview mention that no reliable recovery sucks for a defensive Pokemon thats always one major flaw if you are a wall and should be mentioned especially on a Pokemon like Donphan that is usually outclassed.

Regarding Ice Shard i would just mention that it got potentially nice utility to revenge kill the myrad of pokemon that are weak to Ice, but that it struggles to KO even 4x weak Pokemon since 40 BP unstabed move coming from an uninvested attack stat isn't going to deal much damage so you need significant prior damage to get a KO making it often a poor choice.

Also mention Toxic somewhere almost every reliable Donphan switch-in (Rotom-W, Mandibuzz, Hippo, Lando-T etc.) is crippled a lot more by toxic than a weak knock off that does essentially the same i.e. losing lefties recovery.
 
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Imo Assault Vest should get its own set if anything. Since Donphan has to give up on Stealthrock for it its far less viable imo because the ability to use both SR and Rapidspin is one of the biggest reasons to use Donphan in the fist place.

Also i would slash Knockoff with Stone Edge and maybe even Ice Shard. Knock off offers some nice utillity but thats pretty much it, it doesnt realy help against spin blockers because its far to weak, the only Ghost that realy has to worry about it is Gengar and he gets 2hkoed by Stone Edge as well. I ve been testing all three moves intensively and from my experience Stone Edge is the best choice for the last move slot. It covers LOTS of threats that would otherwise use Donphan as Set up fodder, Donphan can even be used as a lure because of that. Mega Pinsir for example just loves to switch in on a predicted knock off and gets totaly crushed by Stone Edge after mega evolving
 
All right I moved Assault Vest to a separate set and tried to explain the moves a bit more in depth. Any more feedback? I've only used AV Donphan half a dozen times so would love some more feedback on that.
 
You only need one Other Options and Checks and Counters section at the end of the whole thing, not for each set.

By the way, mention Head Smash if one chooses to run 252 Attack EV's. With it you can do stuff like OHKO Dragonite after Multiscale or OHKO Gengar on the switch, which Stone Edge doesn't manage.
 
I think AV should be the only set, because it's the only set that I would even consider close to viable. Donphan is bad enough as it is, so I don't think there should be a set listed that's so bad that it is literally worse than AV Donphan. That's a very difficult feat to achieve.

Also, make sure to stress in the overview just how bad this thing is. It's by far the worst Pokemon in OU right now, and that's saying something when terrible Pokemon like Espeon, Goodra, Cloyster, and Forretress are also OU.
 
Magnemite said:
I think AV should be the only set, because it's the only set that I would even consider close to viable. Donphan is bad enough as it is, so I don't think there should be a set listed that's so bad that it is literally worse than AV Donphan. That's a very difficult feat to achieve.

Also, make sure to stress in the overview just how bad this thing is. It's by far the worst Pokemon in OU right now, and that's saying something when terrible Pokemon like Espeon, Goodra, Cloyster, and Forretress are also OU.
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I dont think Donphan is the worst Mon in OU. It has a really strong niche of being able to spin, lay rocks and use knock off which i only think the worse smergale can do. Its a support mon. Not aimed to take great hits or to sweep teams. That is something that should be pointed out in the overview
 
Millky95 said:
I dont think Donphan is the worst Mon in OU. It has a really strong niche of being able to spin, lay rocks and use knock off which i only think the worse smergale can do. Its a support mon. Not aimed to take great hits or to sweep teams. That is something that should be pointed out in the overview
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It doesn't matter that a Pokemon has a niche if it's really bad at said niche. Armaldo can also do all three of those things. By your logic, if Donphan didn't exist, Armaldo would be deserving of an OU analysis, since it would be the best Pokemon in the game at running a set with all three of Rapid Spin, Stealth Rock, and Knock Off on it. A weak non-STAB Knock Off isn't nearly enough of a reason to run Donphan over Excadrill.

Also, I didn't say to mention that it was the worst Pokemon in OU, just that it is awful. The fact that it is the worst Pokemon that is currently OU merely serves to back up my reasoning that the overview should specifically mention just how terrible this thing is.
 
Could we please keep this stupid donphan bashing out of this thread? There are 3 Threads in the OU Forums filled with it, i think thats enough. If QC thinks Donphan is to bad to be viable, fine then dont give it an analysis. But if it gets one it should be as complete and as neutral as possible, filling it with this senseless hate doesnt help anyone. Its weaknesses are mentioned, its even said that he is "outclassed" by Excadrill so everybody knows what he is getting himself into by using it.
 
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Magnemite said:
I think AV should be the only set, because it's the only set that I would even consider close to viable. Donphan is bad enough as it is, so I don't think there should be a set listed that's so bad that it is literally worse than AV Donphan. That's a very difficult feat to achieve.
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Can't SR with AV, which otherwise would be something very useful to have
 
The thing is Donphan is completely different to Excadrill so I don't get why its constantly compared and said to be outclassed, Donphan isn't weak to Fire, Ground and Fighting and has overall better Physical bulk, allowing it to tank common hits much better than Excadrill can, who is rarely invested in defense anyway. I cannot fathom why their is so much hate for it, how can it be so awful if people consistently use it in OU? It fills an often required niche of being a bulky Rocks setter/Spinner. IMO there is not much point in using Donphan with AV as it loses it's niche as Rocks setter & Spinner completely, sure it can tank a special hit with it, but is it worth it? It's outclassed by other bulky AV attackers. The fact that you are comparing it to Armaldo, who is again completely different and has a garbage typing (only resisting Poison and Normal) just further proves it niche as the next Pokemon who can do what Donphan does is actually terrible. Anyway, Baharoth is completely right, in every Donphan related thread people just swarm it to bash him and this never ending argument about whether or not it is garbage goes on.

EDIT: Spelling
 
Baharoth said:
Could we please keep this stupid donphan bashing out of this thread? There are 3 Threads in the OU Forums filled with it, i think thats enough. If QC thinks Donphan is to bad to be viable, fine then dont give it an analysis. But if it gets one it should be as complete and as neutral as possible, filling it with this senseless hate doesnt help anyone. Its weaknesses are mentioned, its even said that he is "outclassed" by Excadrill so everybody knows what he is getting himself into by using it.
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Donphan has been rejected in the past. The only reason it's getting an analysis is because its usage prevents it from being used in any tier lower than OU. It is worth "bashing" in the analysis.
 
Baharoth said:
Could we please keep this stupid donphan bashing out of this thread? There are 3 Threads in the OU Forums filled with it, i think thats enough. If QC thinks Donphan is to bad to be viable, fine then dont give it an analysis. But if it gets one it should be as complete and as neutral as possible, filling it with this senseless hate doesnt help anyone. Its weaknesses are mentioned, its even said that he is "outclassed" by Excadrill so everybody knows what he is getting himself into by using it.
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An analysis is supposed to be a completely objective, unbiased source of information about a particular Pokemon and how well it performs in the metagame. Therefore, if something is bad, it should be made clear in the analysis that it is bad. Donphan is so bad that is only getting an analysis because it is necessary policy-wise. If policy were to allow it, Donphan would be rejected in a heartbeat. Donphan is only getting an analysis because it is OU, just like how Ivysaur would need an OU analysis if it happened to be OU for whatever reason. The analysis should make it clear how bad Donphan is, because otherwise it would be inaccurate. I don't really see why there's a problem with this.

And before you ask (because I know you will if I don't say anything else about it), I am not saying that Donphan is as bad as Ivysaur.
 
An analysis is supposed to be a completely objective, unbiased source of information about a particular Pokemon and how well it performs in the metagame. Therefore, if something is bad, it should be made clear in the analysis that it is bad.
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And thats the case. All weaknesses are mentioned in Detail, its mentioned that Excadrill outclasses it what else do u want? Should it state that Donphan is awfull in every second sentence like u did in ur previous posts? Should we adapt ur statement that its the worst pokemon in OU? Do u think thats unbiased and objective? I dont want to discuss that shit again, i realy dont, but even if Donphan isnt good its certainly not that bad.

To me this whole thing is completely absurd anyway, i encountered teams with Donphan high up in the ladder (1700+) and the usage numbers speak for it self. There obviously is something about Donphan that makes people want to use it but instead of simply accepting that half of the forum tries to bash it into oblivion.
 
Even though Donphan gets SR, and the SR + Rapid Spin + Knock Off combo is nice, the reason it only runs AV and gives up Stealth Rock is the fact that Donphan fares poorly against anything that wants to Defog its rocks away. Donphan hardly scares anything off the field, so defogging hazards away is usually more than an option against Donphan. Given how hard it is to keep hazards on the field nowadays, Donphan really does nothing to help the situation. Ofc, it can use Knock Off to get rid of the Defoggers Leftovers, put you really want to have more offensive pressure in order to make sure you can keep your Rocks on the field. The reason AV Donphan has a niche is the fact that it can take on some spinblockers, such as Aegislash, and proceed to Rapid Spin. Now, if we take into account the fact that Donphan fares poorly against the Pokemon that want to get rid of their hazards, you may see why people think it is usually not worth running. Excadrill isn't outclassed by Exca just because their share SR + RS + Earthquake as STAB, it is outclassed because Exca can give more offensive pressure, hence giving you more opportunities to RS or place rocks or the sorts.
 
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