I posted this in the old thread, but nominate Lanturn for D rank. Lanturn is one of the few pokemon with access to both Heal Bell and Volt Switch, allowing it to regain momentum lost by using Heal Bell. Additionally, with an Electric immunity, Lanturn is capable of walling several electric and water types in the tier. It shouldn't be higher because Rotom-W outclasses it in most other roles.
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Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V2) (Last update on post #5189)
- Thread starter alexwolf
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Imo, CM Manaphy is outclassed by Suicune who is bulkier and all your trading is speed (pretty useless on cm boosters) and 10 SpA. Hydration is pretty bad especially since something like ega Charizard Y can come in as you use Rest and bam, Manaphy is dead weight. The Tail Glow set is the only reason to use it and why it gets A+ Rank.
The bulk factor is rarely an issue. Most of the stuff that outpace it like Greninja and Garchomp can't do much to it. Garchomp does a decent amount with EQ and Greninja's Dark Pulse is weak against it. It's bulk lets it set-up with ease, and Leftovers recovery gradually builds up to make it amazing at sweeping. "First of all, Manaphy's bulk isn't amazing": lol, 100 / 100 / 100 is great and now you are saying that it should take a Life Orb STAB SE hit and Latios's Draco Meteor. That's is ridiculous. Even Tyranitar loses about half its health to Draco Meteor. You expect Manaphy to take it? Manaphy will never set-up on dangerous PKMN. That is rule #1 for any sweeper. You and I both know that. That's not a con. Is being predictable a bad thing? An also, Manaphy is not predictable. I dare you to challenge a Manaphy and watch your Mega Venusaur die of dehydration because you didn't expect a +3 Psychic. Manaphy is much different from Garchomp. Do you even realize how many PKMN wall Garchomp? Hippowdon, Mega Venusaur, Togekiss, Clefable, etc. Manaphy? There is Chansey, Clefable, and Mega Venusaur. The latter can lose if it has Psychic. Stall teams are completely demolished when Chansey and/or Clefable is removed. Manaphy has no buisness on Chansey. You should just use AV Conkeldurr to absorb a Toxic if you hate it and kill it; it will be worn down after repeated switch-ins to SR where Manaphy can kill it (assuming +6). Surf / Ice Beam / Energy Ball coverage pretty much OHKO everything. Manaphy is one of the most dangerous threats in the metagame; it deserves A+ definitely.
e: Manaphy doesn't give two craps about some pussy Earthquake. Lol wut,Scarbo, you said that most of those 'mons will carry something that can beat it with status or phazing. Anything that is dependent on these moves is not a solid check / counter. Relying on phazing means its a threat. Watch your Goodra for example taking Ice Beam's at +3 each time it comes in and all it can do is Dragon Tail :(
e2: AV Conkeldurr loses to Psychic
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Again, I'm just trying to see if these issues are what hold it back or not. Sorry if I made it a little difficult, but im just trying to see if it is deserving of a promotion or not. I am fully aware of its capabilities as I have been swept by one a few times, but I'm just trying to see if it deserves to go up at all.
Tbt I don't mind it going up but I don't think it needs to. Just my two cents I guess (even if its not very good atm as its being worded horrendously).
It's not that Kabutops is getting a "promotion", it is just that I think it is currently classified incorrectly, and the situation should be rectified. Even though swift swim sweepers require a lot of support, Kabutops arguably does the job best, so I think that it deserves a B- ranking rather than a C, while other swift swim sweepers, like Ludicolo and Kingdra, might remain in C. Just to demonstrate the point with mons that might be in a kinda sorta maybe similar situation, Mega gyarados and dragonite, both dragon dancers that dislike rocks, are in the A group (yes i know one is A+ and one is A-). However, Char-X, another dragon dancer who hates rocks is in the S group, because he is arguably the best dragon dancer. (and yes I know his bulky sets are more popular now, but when this list was created, he was put their for dragon dancing.) This is in essence what I propose should happen to Kabutops, and I hope I have provided enough evidence for people to see Kabutops as the Char-X of swift swimmers, if you will.
Throwing out some of my nominations.
Gastrodon -> C-/D The only niche it has over other bulky waters like Rotom-W and Jellicent is checking mons that rely on Water-type damaging moves and VolTurn. It is also extremely slow and needs all Grass-types removed before it can wall physical attackers. Toxic also shuts it down. It is also setup bait for bulky Substitute attackers and Magic Guard mons like Clefable. Gastrodon is also walled by Chansey, and it cannot stay in on most special attackers due to low special bulk.
Reuniclus -> B- Reuniclus threatens stall, especially Mega Venusaur, with a bulky Calm Mind and threatens fast offense with Trick Room. Its bulk is even further boosted by Magic Guard and Recover, making it hard to wear down. Weakness to U-turn and Pursuit hampers it, Encore and Trick render it useless, and it essentially needs to have Scizor, Aegislash, Jirachi, Volcarona, Sableye, Clefable, Dark-types, and if not running Psyshock, special walls removed in order to sweep.
Omastar -> C- Omastar's niche is being the only special smasher that isn't checked by Talonflame. The unbanning of DrizzleSwim gives it a chance to do some serious damage after smashing once its checks are removed. The issues that keep it from being higher are that it's easily revenge killed by scarfers and priority users, forced out by Gyarados, Rotom-W, Mega Venusaur and Ferrothorn, and walled by Chansey. It is also forced to use Ancient Power or a pitiful 60 Atk to use dual STAB.
Umbreon -> C- Umbreon has only one niche, and that is being a cleric, as the Curse set is outclassed by Tyranitar and Bisharp which can force switches by threatening the opponent with immediate pressure. Umbreon forces opponents to play mindgames if they seek to status a mon for fear of Umbreon switching in to bounce back the status. It is hindered by U-turn, however, turning the momentum away from Umbreon's team by switching into a check. It also faces competition from Mandibuzz which has Defog as its support, as well as Chansey and Sylveon who can take on more threats with more bulk (and in Sylveon's case, Fairy typing and offensive presence).
Cresselia -> C-Unreliable recovery in Moonlight and vulnerability to status hinders its potential as a wall, Tyranitar can switch into any move barring Toxic and set up on it, Magic Guard users set up on it, U-turn hampers it by pulling momentum away from it, it is bait to Taunt and Trick. Levitate and checking common physical attackers are the only niches it has as a wall.
Weavile -> B- The reason to use Weavile over something like Mamoswine is being a fast attacker and threatening opponents and forcing switches through Knock Off. Its high speed and Ice Shard allow it to serve as an effective revenge killer, though priority and Fighting-type scarfers scare it off, and it is easily worn down by rocks and LO recoil.
Amoonguss -> C+ Distinguishes itself from Tangrowth and Mega Venusaur with a more reliable sleep move in Spore and immunity to Toxic, Regenerator, and not using a mega slot. Cannot be easily worn down due to its defensive typing resisting common attacks alongside its decent bulk.
Barbaracle -> C- It distinguishes itself as a smasher with its dual STAB alone providing plenty of coverage. It can run Earthquake to get past Aegislash, something Cloyster can only dream of beating, or it can threaten Ferrothorn with Cross Chop, a threat which Cloyster also struggles to deal with.
Milotic -> D Competitive is its only niche and even then it can't take full advantage of it due to being slow with no priority.
Gastrodon -> C-/D The only niche it has over other bulky waters like Rotom-W and Jellicent is checking mons that rely on Water-type damaging moves and VolTurn. It is also extremely slow and needs all Grass-types removed before it can wall physical attackers. Toxic also shuts it down. It is also setup bait for bulky Substitute attackers and Magic Guard mons like Clefable. Gastrodon is also walled by Chansey, and it cannot stay in on most special attackers due to low special bulk.
Reuniclus -> B- Reuniclus threatens stall, especially Mega Venusaur, with a bulky Calm Mind and threatens fast offense with Trick Room. Its bulk is even further boosted by Magic Guard and Recover, making it hard to wear down. Weakness to U-turn and Pursuit hampers it, Encore and Trick render it useless, and it essentially needs to have Scizor, Aegislash, Jirachi, Volcarona, Sableye, Clefable, Dark-types, and if not running Psyshock, special walls removed in order to sweep.
Omastar -> C- Omastar's niche is being the only special smasher that isn't checked by Talonflame. The unbanning of DrizzleSwim gives it a chance to do some serious damage after smashing once its checks are removed. The issues that keep it from being higher are that it's easily revenge killed by scarfers and priority users, forced out by Gyarados, Rotom-W, Mega Venusaur and Ferrothorn, and walled by Chansey. It is also forced to use Ancient Power or a pitiful 60 Atk to use dual STAB.
Umbreon -> C- Umbreon has only one niche, and that is being a cleric, as the Curse set is outclassed by Tyranitar and Bisharp which can force switches by threatening the opponent with immediate pressure. Umbreon forces opponents to play mindgames if they seek to status a mon for fear of Umbreon switching in to bounce back the status. It is hindered by U-turn, however, turning the momentum away from Umbreon's team by switching into a check. It also faces competition from Mandibuzz which has Defog as its support, as well as Chansey and Sylveon who can take on more threats with more bulk (and in Sylveon's case, Fairy typing and offensive presence).
Cresselia -> C-Unreliable recovery in Moonlight and vulnerability to status hinders its potential as a wall, Tyranitar can switch into any move barring Toxic and set up on it, Magic Guard users set up on it, U-turn hampers it by pulling momentum away from it, it is bait to Taunt and Trick. Levitate and checking common physical attackers are the only niches it has as a wall.
Weavile -> B- The reason to use Weavile over something like Mamoswine is being a fast attacker and threatening opponents and forcing switches through Knock Off. Its high speed and Ice Shard allow it to serve as an effective revenge killer, though priority and Fighting-type scarfers scare it off, and it is easily worn down by rocks and LO recoil.
Amoonguss -> C+ Distinguishes itself from Tangrowth and Mega Venusaur with a more reliable sleep move in Spore and immunity to Toxic, Regenerator, and not using a mega slot. Cannot be easily worn down due to its defensive typing resisting common attacks alongside its decent bulk.
Barbaracle -> C- It distinguishes itself as a smasher with its dual STAB alone providing plenty of coverage. It can run Earthquake to get past Aegislash, something Cloyster can only dream of beating, or it can threaten Ferrothorn with Cross Chop, a threat which Cloyster also struggles to deal with.
Milotic -> D Competitive is its only niche and even then it can't take full advantage of it due to being slow with no priority.
In my opinion we should be removing things before adding anything else. C rank, again, is super inflated. Just because something can be useful or has some small niche in OU doesn't mean it should ranked. Donphan has some use and some level of merit, even if it's outclassed at what it does, but we're not ranking it.
It only makes sense to rank anything that could possibly be used in OU, and as you said, Donphan has some use and some level of merit. It just makes no sense to remove pokemon from the list just for the sake of making it smaller. It's gen 6, and we have over 700 mons, and a lot more of them are viable than ever before thanks to gamefreak's attempts to balance the game, so the list will inevitably be huge by the time it's done.
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Nominating Hydreigon for B Ranking
While Hydreigon got a new weakness in fairy, special moves got nerfed and arguabily it is outpreformed by the Lati Twins in terms of Special Attacking Dragon thanks to their higher stats and SpA, Hydreigon still stands strong for a lot of reasons:
- Dark Typing got a buff and Hydreigon can Spam it without much worry
- Compare to the Latis, Hydreigon has access to High Powered Special Coverage moves like: Fire Blast, Focus Blast, Flash Cannon, Earth Power in addition to Dark Pulse, Dragon Pulse, Draco Meteor, Surf
- Hydreigon can go mixed with its good 105 physical attacking stat and moves like Superpower, Crunch, Outrage, Iron Tail
- Still boosts good defenses to take a super effective priority move and take advantage of moves like Roost and Thunderwave
- Thanks to its large coverage, Hydreigon lacks a 'true counter' and can even scout with U-Turn leaving its checks in the dust
- Builds a great core with Aegislash. Both resist all 18 Typs together, only being hit for SE damage by Mold Breaker/Terra Volt User with Ground Typ moves (or Scrappy Fighting Typ moves)
- Can run a decent number of sets: Specs, MixScarf, SpecialScarf, Expert Belt (to bluff a scarf), Life Orb + Roost
While Hydreigon got a new weakness in fairy, special moves got nerfed and arguabily it is outpreformed by the Lati Twins in terms of Special Attacking Dragon thanks to their higher stats and SpA, Hydreigon still stands strong for a lot of reasons:
- Dark Typing got a buff and Hydreigon can Spam it without much worry
- Compare to the Latis, Hydreigon has access to High Powered Special Coverage moves like: Fire Blast, Focus Blast, Flash Cannon, Earth Power in addition to Dark Pulse, Dragon Pulse, Draco Meteor, Surf
- Hydreigon can go mixed with its good 105 physical attacking stat and moves like Superpower, Crunch, Outrage, Iron Tail
- Still boosts good defenses to take a super effective priority move and take advantage of moves like Roost and Thunderwave
- Thanks to its large coverage, Hydreigon lacks a 'true counter' and can even scout with U-Turn leaving its checks in the dust
- Builds a great core with Aegislash. Both resist all 18 Typs together, only being hit for SE damage by Mold Breaker/Terra Volt User with Ground Typ moves (or Scrappy Fighting Typ moves)
- Can run a decent number of sets: Specs, MixScarf, SpecialScarf, Expert Belt (to bluff a scarf), Life Orb + Roost
There's also the fact that just because the niche exists, doesn't mean it's a useful niche.
Also, Donphan was removed because it lost OU status and C&C denied it an analysis.
I suggest the removal of Salamence and Rotom-C from the viability ranks altogether.
Salamence has the two old classic sets: Dragon dance and ScarfMoxie. He has decent SpA which was always reason enough to use him as he broke skarmory through fire blast, but Skarmory is no longer impossible to break on the physical side [See: Charizard X, Bisharp after Defog, Defiant Thundy-i). However, Garchomp has this fire blast and is already slightly faster. Garchomp is almost certainly the better scarfer, having two stabs it can take advantage of and a few advantageous moves like Stone Edge that salamence simply doesn't have.
The dragon dance set is outperformed by two very prominent OU Dragons: Dragonite, who may have lower speed but has 80 Base power extreme speed and a much better ability (And arguably a better move pool). Charizard-X may be the nail in the coffin. With better attack, same speed, better bulk and much better stabs, Charizard-X breaks through everything outside of Quagsire which Salamence isn't beating without draco meteor... even then, I'm not sure he does. It isn't just a case of out performed. Salamence simply has no niche it does better than an existing pokemon. Even Mega Gyarados and Tyranitar will outperform Salamence in the dragon dance set by way of bulk and abilities. Perhaps it could be said there is opportunity cost in not using a mega, but most people utilize megas as their sweeper anyways. I just don't think Salamence has a distinguishing factor in this meta game.
Secondly, Rotom-C... The rotom family is already a premium pokemon. Many teams take advantage of the Rotom-W and -H forms to handle Talonflame and Pinsir-mega, as well as being a utility glue. Both are useful because of their incredible defensive/offensive type combinations. Rotom-C loses this in a rather pathetic grass STAB (Leaf Storm immediately drops SPA, doesn't hit as much as overheat) and loses the Flying resist that is arguably what makes Rotom so powerful this generation. If you need a grass attack to move by Quagsire and Gastrodon, then HP Grass on Rotom-W is more than enough, just replacing Will-o-wisp will allow you to have no issue.
Rotom-C doesn't have any niche. With the same stats as Rotom-W and -H, both ladder pokemon trick scarf better and Rotom-H is a fantastic Specs user. The defensive typing is far worse. Rotom-W and -H handle Talonflame and Mega Pinsir well, whereas Rotom-C loses to both. Landorus-I will beat rotom-C much more easily than the other two through Sludge Wave. Greninja has no issue using Ice beam to finish Rotom-C before it can move. Heatran beats Rotom-C, something that it can't do to Rotom-W and -H. Mamoswine destroys rotom-C as does Volcarona. The defensive side is obviously far worse.
Offensively in OU, Rotom-C only hits Rotom-W harder, as the others are water and Elec does SE to it. More importantly, outside of Mamoswine, every ground type in OU has a secondary type that resists grass, making them take Neutral at worst. Rotom-W hits every single one of these harder, bar Mamoswine. Rock is hit for SE by both -W and -C, and there are only two Rock types in OU (TTar, Terrakion). Grass hits three types SE: Water, Rock, Ground. Electric hits water, water crushes rock and is decisively better vs ground types in OU. In short, Rotom-C has no niche in OU.
Salamence has the two old classic sets: Dragon dance and ScarfMoxie. He has decent SpA which was always reason enough to use him as he broke skarmory through fire blast, but Skarmory is no longer impossible to break on the physical side [See: Charizard X, Bisharp after Defog, Defiant Thundy-i). However, Garchomp has this fire blast and is already slightly faster. Garchomp is almost certainly the better scarfer, having two stabs it can take advantage of and a few advantageous moves like Stone Edge that salamence simply doesn't have.
The dragon dance set is outperformed by two very prominent OU Dragons: Dragonite, who may have lower speed but has 80 Base power extreme speed and a much better ability (And arguably a better move pool). Charizard-X may be the nail in the coffin. With better attack, same speed, better bulk and much better stabs, Charizard-X breaks through everything outside of Quagsire which Salamence isn't beating without draco meteor... even then, I'm not sure he does. It isn't just a case of out performed. Salamence simply has no niche it does better than an existing pokemon. Even Mega Gyarados and Tyranitar will outperform Salamence in the dragon dance set by way of bulk and abilities. Perhaps it could be said there is opportunity cost in not using a mega, but most people utilize megas as their sweeper anyways. I just don't think Salamence has a distinguishing factor in this meta game.
Secondly, Rotom-C... The rotom family is already a premium pokemon. Many teams take advantage of the Rotom-W and -H forms to handle Talonflame and Pinsir-mega, as well as being a utility glue. Both are useful because of their incredible defensive/offensive type combinations. Rotom-C loses this in a rather pathetic grass STAB (Leaf Storm immediately drops SPA, doesn't hit as much as overheat) and loses the Flying resist that is arguably what makes Rotom so powerful this generation. If you need a grass attack to move by Quagsire and Gastrodon, then HP Grass on Rotom-W is more than enough, just replacing Will-o-wisp will allow you to have no issue.
Rotom-C doesn't have any niche. With the same stats as Rotom-W and -H, both ladder pokemon trick scarf better and Rotom-H is a fantastic Specs user. The defensive typing is far worse. Rotom-W and -H handle Talonflame and Mega Pinsir well, whereas Rotom-C loses to both. Landorus-I will beat rotom-C much more easily than the other two through Sludge Wave. Greninja has no issue using Ice beam to finish Rotom-C before it can move. Heatran beats Rotom-C, something that it can't do to Rotom-W and -H. Mamoswine destroys rotom-C as does Volcarona. The defensive side is obviously far worse.
Offensively in OU, Rotom-C only hits Rotom-W harder, as the others are water and Elec does SE to it. More importantly, outside of Mamoswine, every ground type in OU has a secondary type that resists grass, making them take Neutral at worst. Rotom-W hits every single one of these harder, bar Mamoswine. Rock is hit for SE by both -W and -C, and there are only two Rock types in OU (TTar, Terrakion). Grass hits three types SE: Water, Rock, Ground. Electric hits water, water crushes rock and is decisively better vs ground types in OU. In short, Rotom-C has no niche in OU.
I'm not going to say Mence is a fantastic pokemon, but it does have a niche for 2 reasons:
1. Charizard X takes up a mega slot. If you need a mixed dragon type wallbreaker or a dragon dance sweeper, but you have another mega Salamence is your next best bet
2. Moxie does allow it to stand out in some cases. With Moxie it basically becomes an unstoppable wrecking ball after a few turns.
In the dragon dance set, perhaps. Under scarf, those stabs are pitiful due to fairy/ground immunes (And Togekiss rolled up all of that into one). As I stated in my post, the mega slot isn't that big of an issue due to sweepers generally being the role megas fill.
Is moxie on Dragon Dance good enough that he can get the initial dance and then go on to reliably sweep a team? No. Terribly weak to ice, no bulk and finding himself with only one usable stab, I'd say that this guy is outperformed badly.
Is moxie on Dragon Dance good enough that he can get the initial dance and then go on to reliably sweep a team? No. Terribly weak to ice, no bulk and finding himself with only one usable stab, I'd say that this guy is outperformed badly.
1.) Charizard X is better in every way and can't be burned. Ajwf also said that most Megas are used as sweepers anyway, so the opportunity cost is almost nonexistent here.
2.) Moxie is mute because of all the goddamn priority running around.
Most of the priority cant realy stop him though, ice shard is the only priority he is weak to and, without calcing it, id guess that Salamence can take a bravebird.
However, Salamence isnt the thing here. The more important question is: "Should we remove viable mons just because some ppl here think the list is too crowded?" If something is not viable and is removed because of that its fine, but thats not the case here, you want to remove those mons to get a shorter list not because they are unviable. Thats the wrong way to go imo.
252 Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Salamence: 286-337 (86.4 - 101.8%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
Life Orb recoil increases the chances.
Weavile and Reuniclus STILL not ranked?! B rank please. Its the fastest knock off user and can still perform its duties of Pursuit trapping and revenging dragons very well. There's a reason it's banned from UU!
Meanwhile, Reuniclus is still an awesome tr attacker and can threaten swagplay abusers (bar sableye). Don't use the CM set though, it's just awful
I also think Slowbro should be dropped to C+ or C, since it has to choose between beating swagplay and walling things, and has a nasty Psychic typing which makes it vulnerable to knock off and pursuit.
^That, and don't forget mence is weak to sr and can't really get past defensive fairies.
Meanwhile, Reuniclus is still an awesome tr attacker and can threaten swagplay abusers (bar sableye). Don't use the CM set though, it's just awful
I also think Slowbro should be dropped to C+ or C, since it has to choose between beating swagplay and walling things, and has a nasty Psychic typing which makes it vulnerable to knock off and pursuit.
^That, and don't forget mence is weak to sr and can't really get past defensive fairies.
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The latter reply answers that while Sal hates ol' Scizor's BP with a vengeance (one of moxie scarf's foes if I recall and then ya got SR).
I mean, while I hate that horrible dragon with a vengeance, he does posses a few things that are commendable (if my friends saw me say that, I'd never live it done). He has access to decent sp. atm with which he can abuse Hydropump to beat usual defensive moms along with Fire Blast. I think i even saw a defensive set for him in the Salamence thread. Is c+ too good? Maybe, but him not being ranked is a little far.
Rotom-c though is niche at best and I can support being moved around.
I completely agree with this statement. Mega Banette is being undersold in these viability rankings. Banette can also run prankster sub/protect disable shinanigans as well as functioning as a great support option for stopping all sweepers bar talonflame and pinsir although an adament mega pinsir does fail to OHKO with a +2 quick attack when banette is running max HP.
+2 252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Banette: 270-318 (81.3 - 95.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
So banette still ends up getting a destiny bond or will o wisp off.
Anyway, I second Banette for C/C- rank. It's a great support Pokemon that is simply overshadowed by other megas.
I don't understand all the calls to remove pokemon from the viability rankings altogether. This makes utterly no sense whatsoever, as you can use any single pokemon you would like to in OU, and we have the lower ranks of C and D for a reason. While I am not suggesting that we rank the likes of sunkern and pachirisu, I see no reason that pokemon like Salamence, Donphan, and Rotom-C should not be included in the list. Yes they are outclassed, but that is the purpose of the list, to show people that these pokemon are deserving of C and D rankings, and that's why C and D rankings exist. Pokemon being in UU is not a valid reason to remove it from the list either, as we have clearly seen in this generation pokemon such as Terrakion, Keldeo, Landorus-I, Latias, and Celebi, that were all at one point in UU or BL, and some still are, and this in no way makes them not viable in OU. Gen V also shows this exceedingly well, as pokemon all the way in NU such as Stoutland, Victreebel, Sawsbuck were all used in OU to great success as weather sweepers, and of course the case of scolipede in gen V who was a viable offensive spiker in every tier and notable in OU for being the best counter-lead to Deo-D when it was legal, despite being in NU. Eliminating pokemon from the list designed to show a pokemon's viability just because it is outclassed or the list is too large is absurd. This list should be a source of information first and foremost, and removing pokemon from the list diminishes it's ability to relay information to new players who genuinely do not know whether a salamence is better than a dragonite or not because their only experience comes from in-game. This list should be acting as guide to new players, to make that learning curve a little easier to overcome.
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So many sweepers take a crap ton of damage from a CB Talonflame's Brave Bird. That calc doesn't mean anything. At all. And Mence will run Naive, never Hasty just so it takes priority moves slightly better.
Mence shouldn't be removed from the rank. Like said before, it doesn't take up your Mega Slot like Mega Charizard X (which is a big deal) and it can run an effective mixed set to lure in pokemon like Landorus-T and Gliscor. It can also utilize Life Orb which Dragonite only ever wants to do on a MixNite set, and even then Mence gives it competition. Mence can also use Substitute with DD, which MegaZard X can't do because it needs three coverage moves to be efficient, and Dragonite will lose its Multiscale. Subbing on a status move is a great way to setup with Mence. Moxie helps too because it can still acquire Attack boosts without spending time using Dragon Dance.
Keep Mence where it is now.
This is best way I can think of to answer this.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Administrivia/PeopleSitOnChairs
This page is completely irrelevant to this list, and I honestly don't know what you're trying to say. Bring me a real argument, as I've yet to see you bring anything actually constructive to this thread, and 2 line replies don't really bring enough evidence to be taken seriously.
The point is we don't rank everything just because its there. Every Pokemon can function in OU given enough support.
I'm not suggesting we rank everything, but many UU pokemon are usable in OU, and many pokemon like salamence have earned themselves a spot on the list, even if only for their use in past generations. Removing pokemon because they are outclassed defeats the purpose of the list. Many pokemon have a unique niche, and that should be presented here. Putting aside arguments of how large the list should or should not be, I am sure everyone could agree that the list needs consistency. Why would we remove pokemon such as Galvantula and Salamence from the list when they have their own small niches, when we leave pokemon such as Non-Mega Mawile and Weezing on the list. Perhaps many pokemon from the C Ranking should be moved to D, but I don't think anything in C should be removed completely at this point. The definition of the D ranking says: "Reserved for Pokemon who have a small niche in the current OU metagame, but have very noticable flaws that make them more trouble then their worth the majority of the time."
Does this not almost perfectly describe pokemon such as Galvantula, Gastrodon, Donphan, and perhaps even Salamence?
I'm gonna go down this list one by one.
You CAN'T just use "Any Pokemon in OU" I get what you're going for, but there's Über tier too. THAT'S the tier where you can use any Pokemon. Just pointing that out.
While just being in the UU tier isn't a valid reason to remove Pokemon, there are several factors that make them less VIABLE in the OU environment. Rotom-C for example is outclassed by every Grass or Electric type in OU. I'm not going into details why because a previous poster already did that.
If we don't eliminate SOME Pokemon, the list is going to be bloated as hell and full of outclassed things that do not work n the OU environment (Donphan, Salamance, Haxourus, ETC.) which is why we have the lower tiers, to give them a chance. And I'm pretty sure that the reason why Terrakion and Keldeo are UU is because of a combination of Fairy types being introduced and Flying types decimating everything (Keldeo STILL is OU material, he just needs more support than before). And while your examples of NU Pokemon working in OU are nice, it's a rare case that they work well. And I'm pretty sure that the tiers are based on actual usage, which is why Haxorus and co fell from OU. Fairy type was introduced and most Dragons can't counter Fairies as well as they could Steel types. It's kinda sad really. Oh, and if you want the reason why people want Pokemom removed, look at the last version of this thread.
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