Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V2) (Last update on post #5189)

[effyouzion]

This might be a little off rail but can anyone clarify why Jellicent isn't even D Rank viability? I'm not claiming it's good or anything but I noticed it wasn't blacklisted so I thought I'd mention it as a possible D Rank addition. There are plenty of reasons for its fall from grace relative to last Gen I know but at the same time if garbage like Tornadus-I can carve up enough of a niche to be C-, there should be discussion of Jellicent as a niche but otherwise outclassed bulky water type (unique typing and access to Will o wisp to differentiate itself from other bulky water types, Taunt and reliable recovery to differentiate itself from Rotom-W, and overall it's stats are decent enough and I suppose Water Absorb is chill too.)

Tornadus-I isn't garbage at all. He's a great rain supporter with prankster rain dance, and is an excellent mixed attacker with prankster tailwind for backup support -- although Torn-T outclasses him in that role (prankster tailwind being his only niche over Torn-T).

Jellicent... just sucks. If Suicune ever caught on he could have a niche as a water absorb user, but even then he's outclassed by Vaporeon. If defensive Starmie gets more popular then he would be an okay spin blocker, but spin blocking itself is dead since most teams use defog and Excadrill can 2HKO Jelli on the switch.

 

[malomyotismon]

Do you really think CharY is A+ because of some defensive sets?

I think it was the draw that broke the camels back. Tbh it added a level of versatility to y which pushed it to a+, when offensive alone only merited A

 

[Agent Gibbs]

To be honest, if Terrakion had the same typing benefits that Keldeo does, it'd probably be an easy S-Rank Pokemon. The main thing keeping it out of the top of the list right now is mainly the fact that Terrakion finds it difficult to switch in on anything. Seeing as how it has a whopping 7 weaknesses to fairly common types in the tier, just about everything has a super effective move for it. Here's a quick rundown of the ranks from S to B:

Hide

Azumarill - Either STAB

Charizard (Mega-X) - Earthquake, but Dragon STAB already hits super hard

Keldeo - Either STAB

Landorus - Earth Power, Focus Blast , Psychic

Thundurus - Focus Blast, Psychic

A+ Rank

Charizard (Mega-Y) - Solarbeam, Focus Blast

Clefable - Moonblast

Excadrill - Earthquake, Iron Head

Garchomp - Earthquake, Dragon STAB hits really hard

Greninja - Hydro Pump, Extrasensory, HP Grass

Gyarados (Mega) - Waterfall, Earthquake

Heatran - Earth Power, Flash Cannon

Latias - Psyshock, Surf

Latios - Psyshock, Surf

Pinsir (Mega) - Close Combat, Earthquake, Return hits really hard too

Talonflame - None, but Brave Bird hits super hard

Terrakion - Close Combat

Tyranitar (Mega) - Earthquake, Superpower

Venusaur (Mega) - Giga Drain

A Rank

Bisharp - Iron Head

Dragonite - Earthquake, Dragon STAB hits really hard

Ferrothorn - Power Whip, Gyro Ball

Gardevoir (Mega) - Hyper Voice, Focus Blast, Psyshock

Gengar - Focus Blast, Terrakion also hates Will-O-Wisp

Gliscor - Earthquake

Heracross (Mega) - Close Combat

Hippowdon - Earthquake

Landorus-T - Earthquake

Mamoswine - Earthquake

Medicham (Mega) - High Jump Kick, Drain Punch, Zen Headbutt, Bullet Punch

Mew - Psyshock, also threatens with Will-O-Wisp

Rotom-W - Hydro Pump, Will-O-Wisp

Scizor (Mega) - Bullet Punch, Superpower

Tyranitar - Earthquake, Superpower

A- Rank

Amoonguss - Giga Drain

Breloom - Mach Punch, Bullet Seed

Chansey - None, but paralysis really sucks

Diggersby - Earthquake

Gyarados - Waterfall, Earthquake

Kyurem-B - Earth Power

Manaphy - Surf, Scald, Grass Knot, Psychic

Mandibuzz - Terrakion actually switches in here really well!

Skarmory - Terrakion switches in easily, but threatened by Counter if it can't KO

Slowbro - Scald, Psyshock

B+ Rank

Alomomola - Scald

Garchomp (Mega) - Earthquake, Dragon STAB still hurts

Kabutops - Waterfall

Politoed - Scald, Hydro Pump

Quagsire - Scald, Earthquake

Scizor - Bullet Punch, Superpower

Scolipede - Earthquake

Suicune - Scald

Tornadus-T - Focus Blast, Superpower

B Rank

Aerodactyl (Mega) - Earthquake, Aqua Tail

Alakazam (Mega) - Psyshock, Focus Blast

Kingdra - Surf, Hydro Pump

Lucario - Close Combat, Iron Tail

Magnezone - Flash Cannon

Manectric (Mega) - HP Grass is pretty rare, so Terrakion can switch in decently. Still gets 2HKOed by Thunderbolt, though.

Raikou - Extrasensory, but otherwise same as Mega Manectric.

Starmie - Hydro Pump, Scald, Psyshock

Victini - Zen Headbutt, Brick Break, CB V-Create still really hurts, Will-O-Wisp

Zapdos - None, Terrakion comes in nicely here

B- Rank

Absol (Mega) - Superpower

Ampharos (Mega) - Focus Blast

Celebi - Giga Drain, Psychic

Chesnaught - Hammer Arm, Wood Hammer

Entei - Bulldoze, Sacred Fire burns also suck

Gothitelle - Psyshock

Rhyperior - Earthquake

Sableye - Will-O-Wisp

Staraptor - Close Combat, Brave Bird still hurts

Weavile - Low Kick

I might have missed a couple of examples / included a few less relevant ones, but you get the drift. Nearly everything in those upper ranks has super effective coverage to hit Terrakion really hard with, and of those that don't, some of them still hit hard with their neutral STAB moves anyway or can cripple Terrakion with something like Will-O-Wisp or Thunder Wave. There are only a couple of Pokemon (such as Mandibuzz) that Terrakion can actually switch into, which makes it hard for it to come in and do its job. Compare that to Keldeo, who can switch relatively safely into some big name threats such as Bisharp, Mega Tyranitar, and Mega Gyarados with its equally solid bulk and superior defensive typing. However, you also have to take into account what the Pokemon can do once it gets in, and Terrakion has a very impressive resume on that front. I've talked about Terrakion in this thread many times, but basically it has several sets that it does really well. It's one of the best Stealth Rock supporters for offensive teams thanks to its access to Taunt, great speed, solid power, and good neutral coverage. The Life Orb set is sort of a wild card that can run several different variations to assist in different circumstances. It can scout switches and put many offensive teams in a bad position with Substitute, it can blow through stall later in the game with Swords Dance, it can slam Landorus-T and Gliscor with HP Ice, it can run Quick Attack to pick off weakened opponents, and it can even run one of a few niche coverage moves to more reliably hit some of the Pokemon that it would otherwise rely on Stone Edge to hit. All you can really be sure of is that it's running Close Combat and Stone Edge, and even then it 1-2HKOs most of the metagame with those two moves alone. SubSD with the Salac Berry is a great sweeper that can threaten both offensive and defensive teams alike. Choice Scarf Terrakion is a solid revenge killer than can keep a huge range of offensive threats in check. Choice Band is riskier than the Life Orb set, but it also boasts impressive amounts of power without the recoil damage of the Life Orb. There's just so many things Terrakion can do so well that the reward to getting it in safely is really high.

The decision on where to rank Terrakion ultimately comes down to the risk and rewards of using it. The risk is higher than some other top tier Pokemon since it often struggles to switch in safely and do its given role, but the reward is also very high because it's capable of doing so many things and being a generally dangerous offensive Pokemon. In my opinion, it's fine in A+ because the S Rank Pokemon are generally easier to bring in and out over the course of a match whereas Terrakion really struggles to do so when so many Pokemon hit it so hard. Meanwhile, the variety of sets that it can run and the exceptional success it has using those sets is enough to keep it from falling to A Rank.

 

[Jayd]

Yzard's wallbreaking set alone bends the metagame over its knee. Lati@s can switch in on Keldeo too but that didn't stop it from going to S. You play the same way with them: wear down their (few) switch-ins until they go away and then nuke the rest of the team til it goes away. Yzard is easily A+

 

[alexwolf]

See ya on the new thread!