• Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!

Data Candles of Known Brightness: OU edition

Status
Not open for further replies.
Afti said:
Drean Eater Gengar is at around 1.8%, and I think it's safe to say that's a candle.

Hustle Togekiss also catches my eye at 3.3%. There is exactly no reason to use Hustle Togekiss; you don't even get to say "b-b-but STAB Hustle Extremespeed!" any more.

For that matter, I'd be fine with "any ability but Serene Grace on Togekiss" as a candle. Super Luck is at 4.9%, and while it's more likely to produce results than Hustle (not a high bar) it's still totally luck-reliant. There's no niche it fills; there's no niche it can fill. Both abilities are totally at odds with any role Togekiss can actually play.
Click to expand...

Togekiss can run FEAR. I actually did that when I was a n00b and wanted to troll with a FEAR team.
 
Gothitelle doesn't get sleep, so yeah; Dream Eater is a good candle.

Calm_Mind_Latias:

a) why are you wasting Togekiss on a FEAR role
b) why are you running FEAR
c) Hustle and Super Luck are still outclassed on FEARkiss. I mean, hell - you're relying on ExtremeSpeed+Endeavor, you're not gonna risk 80% accuracy. Well, you might, because you're running FEAR, but you get the drift.

FEAR Togekiss is bad; Hustle/Super Luck Togekiss is a candle.
 
Rotosect said:
Most "let's attempt to salvage this pokemon" Regigigas sets in NU involve Knock Off and Thunder Wave spam. Is there a pokemon with similiar bulk that can do that?
Click to expand...

I used Dexsearch on Showdown and got

Abra, Absol, Absol-Mega, Aipom, Alakazam, Alakazam-Mega, Ambipom, Audino, Azelf, Banette, Banette-Mega, Bisharp, Chimecho, Chingling, Cinccino, Clefable, Clefairy, Darkrai, Deoxys, Deoxys-Attack, Deoxys-Defense, Deoxys-Speed, Drifblim, Drifloon, Eelektrik, Eelektross, Emolga, Ferrothorn, Gallade, Jigglypuff, Kadabra, Kecleon, Liepard, Meloetta, Meloetta-Pirouette, Mesprit, Mew, Minccino, Pawniard, Pikachu, Purrloin, Raichu, Regigigas, Reuniclus, Shuppet, Smeargle, Swoobat, Thundurus, Thundurus-Therian, Uxie, Watchog, Wigglytuff, Woobat, Zangoose

Audino, Deoxys-D, Ferrothorn, Uxie, Clefable, Kecleon and Meloetta stand out.
 
Oh, hey, Ditto is rife with fuckery.

Code: 
Limber  0.758%  
Hardy:0/0/0/0/0/0  3.435%
Quick Powder  1.160%
Candles. Period.

I kinda want to say anything other than Choice Scarf or maybe Focus Sash/Red Card on Ditto is a candle, actually. If it "works" it's still a 50/50 bet.
 
Molk said:
I really don't see any reason to use Regigigas in competitive play, especially in the OU tier, and i'd probably label it as a candle :/.
Click to expand...

It's gonna be a lot of work to find absolutely every Pokemon that's outclassed or has zero niche in OU. Lopunny is the only Pokemon capable of using Trick+Assault Vest, thus it "arguably" has a niche in OU. Sure, you could use Luvdisc as a candle, but why use that as a candle over Happiny? Or Sunkern? Or the countless other stuff that no serious player is every going to use?

Hyper Beam is a good candle. [Arbitrary shitmon of which there are hundreds] is not. I don't think we need an exhaustive list.
 
Afti said:
Gothitelle doesn't get sleep, so yeah; Dream Eater is a good candle.

Calm_Mind_Latias:

a) why are you wasting Togekiss on a FEAR role
b) why are you running FEAR
c) Hustle and Super Luck are still outclassed on FEARkiss. I mean, hell - you're relying on ExtremeSpeed+Endeavor, you're not gonna risk 80% accuracy. Well, you might, because you're running FEAR, but you get the drift.

FEAR Togekiss is bad; Hustle/Super Luck Togekiss is a candle.
Click to expand...

I guess I meant to say ExtremeSpeed was minutely viable (as small as the non-zero value of the cosmological constant) even if it is extremely niche. I never say any use for Hustle.
 
WebBowser: And how many of those other Water Absorb users get Perish Song, a move notable for winning last Pokemon scenarios against Pokemon like Calm Mind Clefable for stall teams and stopping Baton Pass chains, which are powerful enough at the moment that many users are calling for a nerf? Not a single one. Even taking into account other Water Absorb users, I could still argue for a niche for Water Absorb Politoed, regardless of how small. It is no more outclassed or outright bad than Flame Body Talonflame would be. Besides, the issue was never about whether something is outclassed. It is whether something has any competitive use or not. By that standard, if Water Absorb Politoed has any use whatsoever (even if it's outclassed by other Water Absorb users or DrizzleToed), it gets a pass.
 
How about the item big root? It's used often enough on pokemon with draining moves, but it is outclassed by leftovers. Also, if you use an attack/special attack increasing item, you get the added damage along with more HP from draining moves. I don't think there is any reason to use big root competitively.
 
Not sure if this counts, but saw a Hustle focus punch Togekiss KO Blissey the other day.

252+ Atk Life Orb Hustle Togekiss Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 702-827 (98.3 - 115.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

Take it as you will, there was someone luring Spdef walls with Toge :/
 
Neutral nature seems like it'd be fine on Ditto since it doesn't matter. Otherwise, definitely agree.

Also, Hydro Cannon isn't a candle? I mean, I get that Blastoise is cool and all Venusaur for president, but it should be among them, no? Roar of Time as well, most likely.
 
Ajwf said:
Not sure if this counts, but saw a Hustle focus punch Togekiss KO Blissey the other day.

252+ Atk Life Orb Hustle Togekiss Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 702-827 (98.3 - 115.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

Take it as you will, there was someone luring Spdef walls with Toge :/
Click to expand...

That's the stupidest thing ever, but I guess it's technically a niche. Huh.

Super Luck is more common, though, and it's still a candle.

edit: oh, right - anything but Huge Power on Azumarill.
 
Ajwf said:
Not sure if this counts, but saw a Hustle focus punch Togekiss KO Blissey the other day.

252+ Atk Life Orb Hustle Togekiss Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 702-827 (98.3 - 115.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

Take it as you will, there was someone luring Spdef walls with Toge :/
Click to expand...

But
252+ Atk Life Orb Hustle Togekiss Focus Punch vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 515-606 (80.2 - 94.3%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
I can't, what do people even think of.
 
292.gif
@ Leftovers
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef

- Sandstorm
- Rest
- Double-Edge
- Final Gambit
 
Max Atk Hustle Focus Punch Togekiss as a lure is an incredibly stupid set, but it's something that might be used by a player that intends to win some day.

Maybe.

Possibly.

Probably not.

Actually, almost certainly not.

It's still not a candle, though.
 
Afti said:
Oh, hey, Ditto is rife with fuckery.
Click to expand...
-Non-imposter
-Not max HP EVs
-I'd argue flawless IVs--you should be choosing a Hidden Power, and HP Dark is dumb.

Items might have niches.

And Hidious, actually you want the slowest speed possible, IIRC, for struggle wars (recoil is the killer, not the attacks themselves).

Hidious said:
How about the item big root? It's used often enough on pokemon with draining moves, but it is outclassed by leftovers. Also, if you use an attack/special attack increasing item, you get the added damage along with more HP from draining moves. I don't think there is any reason to use big root competitively.
Click to expand...
Big Root probably has some niches.

Not touching Togekiss.

Taiyou, you're not funny, and you're not original.

Shiruba, non HP Azumarill has weird niches.
 
Antar said:
-Non-imposter
-Not max HP EVs
-I'd argue flawless IVs--you should be choosing a Hidden Power, and HP Dark is dumb.

Items might have niches.
Click to expand...

Quick Powder doesn't. It only works while you're still Ditto. Does nothing at all on Imposter sets, and just lets Limber sets get a faster Transform.
 
These are taken from OU Moveset usage stats!

Water Shuriken
Light Metal Scizor (maybe Swarm too)
Hyper Cutter Gliscor
Anticipation Ferrothorn
Dragon Rush
Pressure Bisharp
Keen Eye Skarmory
Air Balloon <anything not Ground-weak>
 
Sergeant Spooky said:
Sap Sipper Azumarill can "counter" both Charizard forms, or something.
Click to expand...

There used to be a set people tried with leftovers or something... Whirlpool, Rest, Toxic? End of the day, it wasn't terrifically effective because the opponent could switch before whirlpool, but it did "Counter" for a short while. (I think Flare blitz at +1 just broke Azumarill). But Thick fat doesn't have much purpose as Azumarill already resists both Fire and ice.

Edit: I hate to continue arguing against some of these candles, but I was reading an uber RMT where the scizor held his mega stone and had Light Metal. The reason was just in whatever rare situation he switched into Low Kick (Generally, Weavile?), He'd take half damage. When you mega evolve immediately, it really doesn't matter.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top