Like half of there aren't checks
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Pokémon Gardevoir
- Thread starter Halcyon.
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Sorry? I did do calculations for all of them except the obvious ones.
Yes, I know what are checks. And I know some aren't checks because they are dependant on speed ties, but that was more of a list of what what pokemon I should prepare for when using Gardy (because risking a match on a speed tie is almost never a good idea). Now, aside from the ones who speed tie, what checks do you disagree with?
Well, back to team building.[/quote]
• A pinsir that hasn't yet mega evolved cannot check a reasonably healthy Mega Gardevoir; it'll get burned
• Same with Azumarill. It does 72% max with CB Aqua Jet, and then gets burned
• Bisharp can't check (a smart) Gardevoir that would use Will-o-Wisp on the predicted Sucker Punch.
• What garchomp are you using? I think scarf is the most common, and 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gardevoir: 232-274 (83.4 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
After which Gardy can burn it or just Hyper Voice
• 252 SpA Mega Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aggron: 940-1108 (273.2 - 322%) -- guaranteed OHKO
A bunch of that stuff risks getting burned anyway, e.g.
4 Atk burned Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (107 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gardevoir: 156-184 (56.1 - 66.1%)
Also: 252 SpA Mega Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 416-492 (102.9 - 121.7%)
Avoids OHKO with vest though. Or, yeah, just burn it, then:
252+ Atk burned Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gardevoir: 130-153 (46.7 - 55%)
4 Atk burned Ferrothorn Gyro Ball (107 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gardevoir: 156-184 (56.1 - 66.1%)
Also: 252 SpA Mega Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 416-492 (102.9 - 121.7%)
Avoids OHKO with vest though. Or, yeah, just burn it, then:
252+ Atk burned Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gardevoir: 130-153 (46.7 - 55%)
Does burn count toward the definition? I mean, if I burn a pokemon then switch out, am I checking it? Because Azumarill will still kill me if it choses to stay in, for example. I can't survive two waterfalls anyway.
Some stuff still wins if they're burned, some stuff doesn't.
EDIT: and even if they're burned but can still win, Garde can just switch out because they're doing jack shit to anything with more bulk.
If you're currently in, you aren't checking anything. If a Ferrothorn switches in, and you burn it, Ferrothorn didn't check you, even though it tried. However, if you switch to Heatran, it will check 99% of Ferrothorns.
For example, Azumarill is given a free switch and comes in. I burn, it uses waterfall, I attack, it survives, uses waterfall again and I die. Is azumarill a check?
Fine. I did make mistakes with a few mons, like the Pinsir (forgot about the need to mega evolve). I'm gonna edit it later then.
It depends, bringing Garde in again is a pain in the ass due to her horrendous bulk. Sometimes I'd rather keep her healthy.
If Azumarill doesn't KO you or force you out the turn it switches in, it didn't check or counter you. It has to happen in one turn (or technically two for a counter) for it to count as a check.
(Also, if it Aqua jets you, you survive, burn it, and then it kills you, it still didn't check you.)
Alright. Sorry then, I did not know that.
Nice point. IDK if I said Scizor, but if I did, I was definitely wrong. I'd mention other Bullet Punch/Fast steel types, but they don't really exist :(
Excadrill is faster than you before Mega Evolving and occasionally has a Scarf so it can outspeed AFTER MEvoing, and Jirachi (though not common anymore) will attempt to flinch hax you if you see one.
252 Atk Mold Breaker burned Excadrill Iron Head vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gardevoir: 192-226 (69 - 81.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 162-191 (44.7 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage
Scarf and being outspeed the MEvo turn means you lose.
For Jirachi, you just lose if it's Scarfed or you didn't hit it with Shadow Ball when it switched in (does 60.9% minimum).
Burning Scizor or another Steel on the switch-in is still valuable support and the one reason, why they're not safe switchins. Even if you're forced out, any Steel, that relies on physical attacks, when burned is deadweight in any other situation. Aegislash is an exception, but a burned Aegislash can only use Shadow Ball effectively, making it much easier to check.
This may sound a bit dumb, but could someone explain why Timid is so far superior to Modest on Mega Gardevior? It comes off as more of a wall breaker than a sweeper to me; I definitely see Timid is clear cut for the calm mind sets, but I am wondering about it's other sets and why Timid is better there.
On that same note, I am also wondering if Modest nature has a place on this Pokemon. I can see it's uses, but I haven't been playing much gen 6 meta, so I may just have no clue what's going on here.
On that same note, I am also wondering if Modest nature has a place on this Pokemon. I can see it's uses, but I haven't been playing much gen 6 meta, so I may just have no clue what's going on here.
Because at Base 100, you are at one of the most common and important speed tiers in the game. A 50% chance of winning a speed tie is always better than always losing to +Speed nature versions of you. Also, getting outsped by Jolly Exacdrill sucks in general.
So I decided to follow the tip and have started spamming WoW shamelessly. The results have been impressive.
Also thank you for the one who told me about the Pinsir speed thing. I've been trolling so many Pinsirs who think they are a safe check because they are faster.
Also thank you for the one who told me about the Pinsir speed thing. I've been trolling so many Pinsirs who think they are a safe check because they are faster.
Currently the meta game sort of has a "speed pocket" you could say. Basically anything with 105 and higher is running max speed, and lots of things between 80 and 104 are going "eh, why bother?" The only relatively common sweepers at 100 are Manaphy and CharY. Plenty of other things, not being able to outspeed things like Keldeo, Thundurus and Greninja, not to mention all the priority, means investing In speed is a waste to a degree. They only have to worry about out speeding certain slower threats that might run speed sometimes. So yeah, Modest is a viable nature on Mega Gardevoir. Excadrill is the biggest relevant threat most likely and I don't know how common max speed Excadrill is. If you aren't going to run Calm Mind then Modest is an ok choice as the stat gain is immense.
I'd just like to post that I've just won a match against a Baton Pass team just by using Gardy and spamming Hyper Voice over and over. She outspeeds all BP mon before the boost (and even some of them after a +1 boost), can deal physical damage if needed, or can spam Hyper Voices that most BP mons don't have the bulk to stop and that can pierce their Substitutes, and none of the common BP mons resist fairy. So if anyone is having trouble with BP teams, she is a decent answer.
Scolipede resists Fairy, it is mauled by Psyshock though and generally doesn't carry an attacking move on pure BP teams.
That speed boost can also be copied by Gardevoir before Mega evolving.
I really like this set. Been running a weird mono Psychic team and was looking for some extra bulk and this looks perfect, thanks.
Hey guys, I've been wondering why people use Psyshock instead of Psychic. I've tried to think what pokemon are checked better by psyshock, but the truth is that there aren't many. The pokemon for which psyshock could be useful are the ones with a significantly higher SpDef compared to Def, right? So let's see:
Chansey: takes max 35% from Psyshock, so it's kind of pointless.
Tyranitar: immune to psychic moves anyway
Conkeldurr (AV): Hyper Voice already does the job
Excadrill (AV): resists psychic moves, you should use Focus Blast instead
Heatran: resists psychic moves, you should use Focus Blast instead
Zapdos: runs physically defensive sets more often than special sets
Rotom-W: runs physically defensive sets more often than special sets
Venusaur: runs physically defensive sets more often than special sets
Goodra: Hyper Voice deals the same damage as Psyshock
Psychic is still the superior option when dealing with Zard Y, Volcarona and Sylveon, which is admitelly great. Psychic, on the other hand? It deals more damage (statistically) to the aforementioned Venusaur, while being also better against Gliscor, and Iron Defense Scolipede.
Looking at it, it seems hard to decide which move is the better one, it all boils down to your team. So why is Psyshock so universally prefered to Psychic?
Chansey: takes max 35% from Psyshock, so it's kind of pointless.
Tyranitar: immune to psychic moves anyway
Conkeldurr (AV): Hyper Voice already does the job
Excadrill (AV): resists psychic moves, you should use Focus Blast instead
Heatran: resists psychic moves, you should use Focus Blast instead
Zapdos: runs physically defensive sets more often than special sets
Rotom-W: runs physically defensive sets more often than special sets
Venusaur: runs physically defensive sets more often than special sets
Goodra: Hyper Voice deals the same damage as Psyshock
Psychic is still the superior option when dealing with Zard Y, Volcarona and Sylveon, which is admitelly great. Psychic, on the other hand? It deals more damage (statistically) to the aforementioned Venusaur, while being also better against Gliscor, and Iron Defense Scolipede.
Looking at it, it seems hard to decide which move is the better one, it all boils down to your team. So why is Psyshock so universally prefered to Psychic?
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