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Chain Chomp

I personally think a certain UU-BL Special wall walks all over this straitgy. Mantine. I haven't done any damage calculations (I'm bad at those) but I'm pretty sure mantine can shake of 3 plus draco meteors, is immune to earthquake, and resistant to Fireblast. Yeah, he's UU, but he could strike trouble with 416 SpDef.

Love the set though, It's very creative. Also I'd like to mention, garchomp has some good HP to work with.
 
Why be so quick to condemn a strategy (or blind to see that it it's part of one in the first place and not just a standalone pokemon) instead of seeing how ridiculously possible it is to support it?
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I think like any strategy, critisism and an attempt at pointing out the flaws is necessary. Unless cresselia and other "counters" are pointed out (in quotes because other than cresselia, nothing seems to be 100% satisfactory), then this next step is never found. That said, I don't think people here are condeming it, they're just seeing if the strategy upholds to their critisism.

At very least, that is my goal when I critisize a strategy / pokemon set.
 
The Man... (tyke) said:
I personally think a certain UU-BL Special wall walks all over this straitgy. Mantine. I haven't done any damage calculations (I'm bad at those) but I'm pretty sure mantine can shake of 3 plus draco meteors, is immune to earthquake, and resistant to Fireblast. Yeah, he's UU, but he could strike trouble with 416 SpDef.
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Pokemon beats Pokemon with move. The fact that Mantine is weak to Stealth Rock does not help!
 
With Chain Chomp EVs, Garchomp does 37.43% - 44.01% with a single Draco Meteor to a max/max Calm Mantine. After the power down, it does 19.16% - 22.46% to the same Mantine. The residual damage does not help Mantine either
 
I'm pretty sure I wouldn't count Mantine as an actual threat that I would need Garchomp to get rid of for my physical sweepers anyway.
 
Great set guys, things like this are why I love Pokémon.

Could someone run some Spiritomb numbers for me? I've got some errands to run, and I'd really appreciate it.
 
Yeah i have thought about stuff like that already. I always try to use wierd movesets that would counter the standard counters. Like in my chocie specs snorlax thread abck then.
 
I'm interested in making a team around this pokemon, and I was thinking how good would it be if both Chain Chomp and TBoah are on this team? They both sort of achieve the same goal, so I was wondering if only one was needed. I was thinking of the whole sandstream ability and how it helps both of them.
 
You'd probably be better off using TTar as a physical attacker to take advantage of the opening you create with Chomp.
 
As a note, I was using this build earlier on Shoddy Battle and, as long as I didn't choose the wrong place to switch in the Chomp, nobody saw it coming. Baiting the switch to people's physical walls is genius, and the best part about this set is that even if they see it coming, the most they can do is switch to a Poke of theirs that's already on the verge of KO. +2 Earthquake is enough to scare away any special wall, and Draco Meteor rips through their physical walls.

I need to breed one of these things in-game.
 
phatJacob07 said:
Great set guys, things like this are why I love Pokémon.

Could someone run some Spiritomb numbers for me? I've got some errands to run, and I'd really appreciate it.
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I'll use the first set X-Act posted which is 252 HP/112 Sp Def with Careful nature. Using Metalkid's Calc.

First Draco Meteor: 54.93% - 64.80%

Second: 27.96% - 32.89%

Earthquake: 60.20% - 70.72%

 He'll be able to survive one of these hits and I guess he could Sucker Punch back, although that will hardly do anything...
 
WildAce said:
However, this set manages to do exactly 53% to Bold 252/252 Blissey. After factoring in Lefties, that's a solid 2HKO.
Infact, SR isn't even needed to 2HKO it.
Besides, if it switches out, what will it switch to: A Physical Wall (in assumption that it's Physical Mence).
Simply Draco that thing to hell.
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The point of Chain Chomp is to remove a physical wall. If you do 53% to Blissey, it will just switch out and still be perfectly capable of special walling, and you've lost your surprise of a Mixmence. If you do 90% to Gliscor or whatever, it's not going to be walling your Heracross or Tyranitar, so Chain Chomp has done its job.
 
General Tso said:
I'll use the first set X-Act posted which is 252 HP/112 Sp Def with Careful nature. Using Metalkid's Calc.

First Draco Meteor: 54.93% - 64.80%

Second: 27.96% - 32.89%

Earthquake: 60.20% - 70.72%

He'll be able to survive one of these hits and I guess he could Sucker Punch back, although that will hardly do anything...
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Spiritomb could Pain Split the damage, even after the second Draco Meteor.
 
Oh right, Pain Split >.> But I don't think it'll get a chance if it were switching in. If it was one-on-one then it should get the chance.
 
When taking in account Stealth Rock, be more careful with Spritomb, as it can't survive if it rolls near max damage twice, and even if it Pain Splits that allows a free turn for Garchomp to SD
 
Easton said:
When taking in account Stealth Rock, be more careful with Spritomb, as it can't survive if it rolls near max damage twice, and even if it Pain Splits that allows a free turn for Garchomp to SD
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Of course, if it uses Will-o-Wisp, Chain Chomps physical capability's are highly downgraded. That's assuming Spiritomb is already in though. If it has to switch in, it's a dead duck (or ghost, if you want to be more specific).
 
Spiritomb wouldn't survive two consecutive EQs (btw my calculations say that it does 76%-90% with EQ), but it would survive two Draco Meteors and Pain Split back.

EDIT: Actually it wouldn't, since your Draco Meteor calculations are also off - I'm getting 68%-81% max damage from the first Draco Meteor to Spiritomb, and 34%-41% for the second one. That gives Spiritomb a very difficult chance to survive two Draco Meteors.

It's difficult to EV Spiritomb differently to be able to withstand two Draco Meteors, too.

EDIT 2: Just calculated it. It would need 252 HP EVs and 240 SpDef EVs with a +SpDef nature to be able to withstand two Draco Meteors.
 
This thing is a fucking beast.

Only problem is cresselia. I'd want fireblast for skarmory and earthquake for the OHKO (With SD) on blissey.

Bleh!
 
To the bulky Garchomp / Gyarados counter one in the thread adman:

57.42% - 67.31% initially, 29.12% - 34.34% on the second one

Apply SR, you have a 2HKO on your hands

JTX, it was mentioned that Cresselia was a problem already. That's why you have the rest of the team to deal with it, as Jumpman stated (Tyrannitar would be the best, it shrugs off any attack from Cresselia and deals tons of damage with Crunch)
 
Easton said:
To the bulky Garchomp / Gyarados counter one in the thread adman:

57.42% - 67.31% initially, 29.12% - 34.34% on the second one

Apply SR, you have a 2HKO on your hands

JTX, it was mentioned that Cresselia was a problem already. That's why you have the rest of the team to deal with it, as Jumpman stated (Tyrannitar would be the best, it shrugs off any attack from Cresselia and deals tons of damage with Crunch)
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I guess. But Who the hell leaves their cresselia into a tyranitar.
 
The Man... (tyke) said:
Mantine. I haven't done any damage calculations (I'm bad at those) but I'm pretty sure mantine can shake of 3 plus draco meteors, is immune to earthquake, and resistant to Fireblast. Yeah, he's UU, but he could strike trouble with 416 SpDef.
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He doesn't even need max s.def. Even with around 400 s.def/320HP or something to emulate that kind of spread Draco Meteor completely bounces off it and still can pack enough ev's left to boost s.atk enough to OHKO Garchomp with Ice Beam.

Even if you switch in onto the Draco Meteor and Stealth Rock is in effect you'll on average take 56-60%ish damage. Afterwhich Garchomp is forced to switch as a second Draco Meteor does absolutely pitiful damage (around 15%).

I haven't done the calculations but I've actually seen this scenario happen on both wifi and in the wifi battle tower.

Only thing that stops Mantine completely halting Garchomp is that it has no recovery move outside Aqua Ring and Garchomp can potentially pack Stone Edge instead of Earthquake if its a wary player.

Could someone run some Spiritomb numbers for me? I've got some errands to run, and I'd really appreciate it.
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Have to ask though...what after that and why not Dusknoir? Its gonna take the hit on either side better and be able to do more with Ice Punch.

If its pressure stall than Dusknoir does that too. In this scenario Spiritomb is a poor man's Dusknoir.
 
Obi said:
The point of Chain Chomp is to remove a physical wall. If you do 53% to Blissey, it will just switch out and still be perfectly capable of special walling, and you've lost your surprise of a Mixmence. If you do 90% to Gliscor or whatever, it's not going to be walling your Heracross or Tyranitar, so Chain Chomp has done its job.
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And the point of this Mence is to remove a Special Wall.
Much like how CC can cripple Gliscor, Skarmory, et.al this Mence can cripple Blissey, Regice, et.al.

If you really wanted to OHKO (88% damage) Bliss on the switch, you would have to not only have Stealth Rock in effect (duh), but would also NEED to have Dragon Danced previouslly as well as invest a minimum of 176 ATK EVs in to Mence. That would utterlly take away from it's Special "sweeping" potential....
 
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