Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V2) (Last update on post #5189)

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I believe that mega gardevoir should move up. She's severly underestimated.
Mega Gardevoir for A- or A
Guy 1: Lol my kyruem-b (Or any other good pokemon thats weak to fairy i.e. gyarados) Sets up a sub, the games done!
Guy 2: Lol soooooo tru sub is 3op5me!
Gardevoir used hyper voice!
You see what i mean? And also it gets echoed voice. It acts like rollout, except better accuracy. Boosted by pixilate, by 3rd turn your hitting around 120-150!
Her dual stabs are also very good, psyshock covers poison types and kills pink blobs AND gengar.
Also, she can run a very effective CM set with great sp. atk and sp. def. Overall, gardevoir is a very great tank and has unmatched coverage (Ok, so there's mamoswine and char x. She's not a S rank though, that's for sure)

Alright, next one!
Mega Manetric for any A rank
Manetric is one of the best offensive pivots. Sure, it's not a DD dancing tank, or a wall, or a set up sweeper. So what? He pivots great from my experience, and forming one of the best cores with Lando-t he shuts down every physical attacker, his intimidate acting as a psuedo def boost. He also has great coverage, acting similar to gensects thunderbolt, flamethrower, icebeam, and u turn, except with volt switch and HP ice. His first ability, thunder rod, lets him get to +1 or even +2 Easily.

REMEMBER: UNDERUSED POKEMON ARE NOT UNDER AVERAGE! (gee that's really nice, i could put it in my sig and have it on instagram with a artistic picture in the backround :3)
 
Soarviver said:
I believe that mega gardevoir should move up. She's severly underestimated.
Mega Gardevoir for A- or A
Guy 1: Lol my kyruem-b (Or any other good pokemon thats weak to fairy i.e. gyarados) Sets up a sub, the games done!
Guy 2: Lol soooooo tru sub is 3op5me!
Gardevoir used hyper voice!
You see what i mean? And also it gets echoed voice. It acts like rollout, except better accuracy. Boosted by pixilate, by 3rd turn your hitting around 120-150!
Her dual stabs are also very good, psyshock covers poison types and kills pink blobs AND gengar.
Also, she can run a very effective CM set with great sp. atk and sp. def. Overall, gardevoir is a very great tank and has unmatched coverage (Ok, so there's mamoswine and char x. She's not a S rank though, that's for sure)

Alright, next one!
Mega Manetric for any A rank
Manetric is one of the best offensive pivots. Sure, it's not a DD dancing tank, or a wall, or a set up sweeper. So what? He pivots great from my experience, and forming one of the best cores with Lando-t he shuts down every physical attacker, his intimidate acting as a psuedo def boost. He also has great coverage, acting similar to gensects thunderbolt, flamethrower, icebeam, and u turn, except with volt switch and HP ice. His first ability, thunder rod, lets him get to +1 or even +2 Easily.

REMEMBER: UNDERUSED POKEMON ARE NOT UNDER AVERAGE! (gee that's really nice, i could put it in my sig and have it on instagram with a artistic picture in the backround :3)
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No. Mega Garde is really good imo, but I'd not put it above B+. It doesn't have a lot of speed and pretty much any neutral physical attack can take it out. On the other hand, it has pretty much no good switch ins; Hyper Voice hits like a truck, Psychock hits the blobs and gives coverage on a handful of stuff that resists Hyper Voice, and it has Focus Blast, Hidden Power and Shadowball for anything that resists its STABs. And for anything that can take any of that? lol will-o-wisp and switch out. But again, there's that speed and no phyiscal bulk. Also echoed voice is terrible, please don't mention it.

Mega Man, also great, but again I think B or B+ is better, because while it's good at what it does, it doesn't have any good support moves like Will-o-wisp, no passive recovery or even pain split/chesto rest, and has a mediocre defensive typing. And as a special attacker it's pretty easy to wall; 135 SpA with no item and with Thunderbolt as your strongest STAB isn't that great. On the other hand it checks like half of S and A+.

Don't get me wrong, I think they're both pretty good, but I don't think A is a good place for them.

Srn9130 said:
Well, tyranitar does have its uses, certainly. It definitely works as a great pursuit trapper to help mega like char-y plow through without the presence of Lat@s. But yeah, mega tyranitar is definitely crazy good.

Also, that little part about greninja? Omg it's such a pain in the neck. Extrasensory kills Keldeo, Ice beam/dark Pulse kills lati@s, Hydro Pump deals with Hippowdon or whatever your bulky ground is, it just destroys the common archtypes so easily and has the great speed to back it up. This thing honestly forces thundurus to waste its priority t-wave on the ninja, letting other sweepers get the opportunity to actually do something without being cockblocked by priority t-waves everywhere. Ninja definitely deserves A+

Also, here's ninja dealing with the things it needs to:
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Extrasensory vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 315-374 (97.5 - 115.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 260-307 (86 - 101.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 304-359 (100.6 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 569-671 (135.4 - 159.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I don't need to calc landorus (-T) lol
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Bisharp: 266-316 (98.1 - 116.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 393-463 (131 - 154.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

So yeah. After some chip damage, even the bulkiest of hyper offense pokemon (stuff like latias) is basically getting OHKO'd.
These guys are all standard members of HO teams, and greninja just takes gigantic dumps all over them. Keep in mind that, in conjunction with rocks, or sand storm (provided how popular and good hippowdon and mega tyranitar are), you easily OHKO everything you want to in the list above.
This guy's speed and coverage is too much for HO to handle well, it definitely deserves A+

Also, the set I run is (hydro pump/ice beam/extrasensory/grass knot) plenty of things out there to hit aegislash, that's the only thing you really miss out on with dark pulse. Mega Gyarados sets up all over it too, so that's cool.
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Yeah I guess you're right on greninja, I don't have a strong opinion on it. I guess it's just because I'm either running stall, which greninja can have trouble against, or rain offense, and Kabutops and Kingdra just DNGAF.
 
Yeah, I agree on Mega-Gard staying at its current state - it has a miserable time switching in to most Physical Attackers and is too easily revenged.
 
Soarviver said:
I believe that mega gardevoir should move up. She's severly underestimated.
Mega Gardevoir for A- or A
Guy 1: Lol my kyruem-b (Or any other good pokemon thats weak to fairy i.e. gyarados) Sets up a sub, the games done!
Guy 2: Lol soooooo tru sub is 3op5me!
Gardevoir used hyper voice!
Click to expand...

Any decent player running Kyurem-B won't blindly set up a Sub if he sees Gardevoir in team preview. Instead he'll predict the obvious switch-in and outright 2HKO her with Fusion Bolt:
0 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-B Fusion Bolt vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gardevoir: 163-192 (58.6 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Teravolt Kyurem-B Fusion Bolt vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gardevoir: 163-192 (58.6 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

If Gardy hasn't mega evolved yet, she'll outright lose to Kyu-B because she's cleanly 2HKO'd by Fusion Bolt even without investiment (Ice Beam -> Fusion Bolt accomplishes the same by the way). Don't forget she's slower than Kyu-B before mega evolving and on the mega evolution turn she still has base 80 speed.
If Kyu-B is running LO or CB then she gets smashed on the switch, so she can revenge kill him at best, and only if she's already mega evolved.

She suffers from the same issue as most fairies do: they're meant to check/counter dragons, but their pitiful physical bulk and low speed won't let them. B+ rank is fine for her.
 
Added the changes that happened in the VR thread:

Garchomp (Mega): A+ ---> A
Terrakion: A- ---> A
Conkeldurr: A- ---> B+
Zapdos: B+ ---> A-
Diggersby: B ---> B+
Kabutops: C ---> B+
Lucario: B- ---> B
Quagsire: C ---> B
Kingdra: C+ ---> B
Ferrothorn: B+ ---> A

And here are some other changes on Pokemon that haven't been ranked yet in the VR thread:

Jellicent: B- ---> D
Goodra: B- ---> C+
Jirachi: B- ---> D
Trevenant: C+ ---> D
Machamp: C ---> D
Tentacruel: C+ ---> D
Raikou: Unranked ---> B

Any Pokemon that was moved to the D rank was moved there because its analysis got rejected, which means that those Pokemon have little to no viability. They will be kept in D rank for now, and we will consider if they deserve to get ranked or not in the neat future.

Goodra was dropped because it's just not as viable as the rest Pokemon in B- rank, or at least those that deserve being there.

Raikou was put to B rank because its very good in this metagame. It checks a lot of offensive threats, including Mega Charizard Y, Thundurus, Mega Pinsir, Talonflame, Manaphy, and Keldeo, while being able to threaten a great deal of offensive teams with its great speed, and decent power and coverage.

Expect another wave of changes in the next days.
 
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Kiga said:
So is the D rank just meant to be probationary now, then?
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D rank is going to be the best the Pokemon with rejected analyses are going to get. Whether or not they are going to stay there or be removed from the list entirely is up to debate.
 
I think Quagsire should move down a bit. While it can deal well with Mega Charizard X, the Y variant destroys it with Solarbeam, making Quagsire a shaky switch in at best. It generally provides little to the team, only able to throw some Toxics and Scald around when it's not forced to continuously Recover. It's hard to justify a team slot for it when you're not using Stall, and even then there's similar pokemon that fullfill more roles than Quagsire, like Suicune or Rotom-W. I think C+ fits it better.
 
Liarliarpantsonfire said:
I think Quagsire should move down a bit. While it can deal well with Mega Charizard X, the Y variant destroys it with Solarbeam, making Quagsire a shaky switch in at best. It generally provides little to the team, only able to throw some Toxics and Scald around when it's not forced to continuously Recover. It's hard to justify a team slot for it when you're not using Stall, and even then there's similar pokemon that fullfill more roles than Quagsire, like Suicune or Rotom-W. I think C+ fits it better.
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Quagsire has a massive niche over Suicune and Rotom-W, this is in the form of unaware. Unaware means Quagsire can easily stop set-up sweepers, which Rotom and Suicune wish they could do.
 
Dirty Bum said:
Quagsire has a massive niche over Suicune and Rotom-W, this is in the form of unaware. Unaware means Quagsire can easily stop set-up sweepers, which Rotom and Suicune wish they could do.
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Well thanks for pointing out the obvious, but what else does Quagsire do? Rotom-W is extremely splashable and fullfills multiple roles, be it a pivot, a tank, status spreader, VoltTurner or bulky water. Suicune can be an effective lategame sweeper with CM while being a great wall midgame. Quagsire just sits there. That's the difference and why I think Quag should move down a few ranks.
 
Liarliarpantsonfire said:
I think Quagsire should move down a bit. While it can deal well with Mega Charizard X, the Y variant destroys it with Solarbeam, making Quagsire a shaky switch in at best. It generally provides little to the team, only able to throw some Toxics and Scald around when it's not forced to continuously Recover. It's hard to justify a team slot for it when you're not using Stall, and even then there's similar pokemon that fullfill more roles than Quagsire, like Suicune or Rotom-W. I think C+ fits it better.
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The quagsire is a fail safe Pokemon. You can switch in your charizard y check without having to worry about x setting up an unmanageable amount dragon dances. And its role in stall is IMO just as important as deoxys d in HO.
 
Liarliarpantsonfire said:
Well thanks for pointing out the obvious, but what else does Quagsire do? Rotom-W is extremely splashable and fullfills multiple roles, be it a pivot, a tank, status spreader, VoltTurner or bulky water. Suicune can be an effective lategame sweeper with CM while being a great wall midgame. Quagsire just sits there. That's the difference and why I think Quag should move down a few ranks.
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Check post 150
 
alexwolf said:
D rank is going to be the best the Pokemon with rejected analyses are going to get. Whether or not they are going to stay there or be removed from the list entirely is up to debate.
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I have a few issues with using QC opinions as a basis for determining Viability Rankings. It creates inconsistencies with these rankings. Right now, Jirachi and Trevenant are D rank and Rotom-C is C-. There is no way that Rotom-C is more viable than Jirachi and Trevenant. The only reason Rotom-C is not rejected is because it is not even good enough to get rejected. If we are going by a new standard for these viability rankings, then the descriptions for each of the rankings finally need to be updated. Right now, the descriptions make it sound like the C rank is for niche Pokemon, but if it is niche, it is going to be rejected by QC which automatically makes it D rank. The rank descriptions either need to be updated to synchronize the two standards, or else these rankings should have nothing to do with QC.
 
alexwolf said:
Added the changes that happened in the VR thread:

Garchomp (Mega): A+ ---> A
Terrakion: A- ---> A
Conkeldurr: A- ---> B+
Zapdos: B+ ---> A-
Diggersby: B ---> B+
Kabutops: C ---> B+
Lucario: B- ---> B
Quagsire: C ---> B
Kingdra: C+ ---> B
Ferrothorn: B+ ---> A

And here are some other changes on Pokemon that haven't been ranked yet in the VR thread:

Jellicent: B- ---> D
Goodra: B- ---> C+
Jirachi: B- ---> D
Trevenant: C+ ---> D
Machamp: C ---> D
Tentacruel: C+ ---> D
Raikou: Unranked ---> B

Any Pokemon that was moved to the D rank was moved there because its analysis got rejected, which means that those Pokemon have little to no viability. They will be kept in D rank for now, and we will consider if they deserve to get ranked or not in the neat future.

Goodra was dropped because it's just not as viable as the rest Pokemon in B- rank, or at least those that deserve being there.

Raikou was put to B rank because its very good in this metagame. It checks a lot of offensive threats, including Mega Charizard Y, Thundurus, Mega Pinsir, Talonflame, Manaphy, and Keldeo, while being able to threaten a great deal of offensive teams with its great speed, and decent power and coverage.

Expect another wave of changes in the next days.
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Thanks for the update. Glad to see that this thread isn't being ignored. Are the Pokemon in D rank up for discussion as of now? If so, I would like to nominate jirachi for C+. It lost a lot this generation. The steel nerf has made the once great tank much more vulnerable to the plethora of ghost and dark type attacks littered throughout OU. Not to mention that it is now more vulnerable to pursuit trapping. However, jirachi's massive move pool and amazing ability allows it to be a really interesting and annoying tank. Jirachi is probably still the best abuser of paraflinch in Gen 6. Jirachi finds enough opportunities to come in and setup thunder wave or body slam the opponent because of its ability to wall common threats like Lati@s, sylveon, clefable, etc. A lot of Pokemon really appreciate the support it can provide with rare moves like healing wish or even the gimmicky doom desire. I left a lot out, but I'm pretty sure most people here know what all jirachi can do. Jirachi for C+
 
Liarliarpantsonfire said:
I think Quagsire should move down a bit. While it can deal well with Mega Charizard X, the Y variant destroys it with Solarbeam, making Quagsire a shaky switch in at best. It generally provides little to the team, only able to throw some Toxics and Scald around when it's not forced to continuously Recover. It's hard to justify a team slot for it when you're not using Stall, and even then there's similar pokemon that fullfill more roles than Quagsire, like Suicune or Rotom-W. I think C+ fits it better.
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Well, Kingdra and Kabutops are pretty impossible to justify unless you're running a rain team. Chansey is pretty hard to justify if you're running a HO team. No shit, Quagsire is bad if you're using it on an offensive team, so use it on a defensive team where it can contribute to its team lol.
 
Empoleon needs to either go to D rank or be unranked. Empoleon did not take kindly this generation. There are many things that do its job better (whether bulky Water or Defog) and there is so much stuff that can easily OHKO Empy. To put it nicely, Empoleon really has no place in a serious OU team...and that is saying something from a guy that genuinely loves Empoleon.
 
SapphSabre777 said:
Empoleon needs to either go to D rank or be unranked. Empoleon did not take kindly this generation. There are many things that do its job better (whether bulky Water or Defog) and there is so much stuff that can easily OHKO Empy. To put it nicely, Empoleon really has no place in a serious OU team...and that is saying something from a guy that genuinely loves Empoleon.
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What if your team requires a defogger resistant to SR that can set rocks? I feel it has a niche in OU now, and not ranking it would be a mistake.
 
How hard are you trying to make empoleon viable over skarmory? Skarm is way better in terms of bulk and typing, and can do everything empoleon does.
 
While OU is not the greatest environment for Empoleon, to say that it has no place on a serious OU team is a bit of an overstatement. D or C- seems like a good place for it as it can fulfill the role of a utility mon with Defog, Stealth Rock and Scald, use a bulky Choice Specs set, Agility or SubPetaya. The utility set and Stealth Rock resistance is the main reason it should be ranked.
 
Ajwf said:
How hard are you trying to make empoleon viable over skarmory? Skarm is way better in terms of bulk and typing, and can do everything empoleon does.
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It doesn't have knock off, or scald, isn't neutral to fire, has worse mixed bulk, and doesn't resist stealth rock. There are enough differences between the two to warrant using Empoleon on some teams.
 
252+ Atk Landorus-T Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Empoleon: 51-60 (13.7 - 16.1%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252+ Atk Landorus-T Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 75-89 (22.4 - 26.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

10% difference from one of the stronger stone edges. I could use TTar but largely irrelevant. Remember that Edgequake means Empoleon falls easier and it also has no reliable recovery. Fire neutral? Whatever... In exchange for 6% HP on switch, you can go latios and get a full fire resist and a better defogger. And trust me, rocks+Defog on same set does not mean good... It means no worth outside set/clearing.
 
finncent1 said:
What if your team requires a defogger resistant to SR that can set rocks? I feel it has a niche in OU now, and not ranking it would be a mistake.
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would be a shame if something did that already

530.png
 
I propose Clefable moving up to A+. I have trashed entire teams, teams of all stripes, because playing against it is like seeing a charizard mega- depending on its moveset, ability and stat distribution, it can run sets ranging from defensive to sweeping to wallbreaking, and responding to any given set requires a completely different strategy. As an example, I run the following set:

Clefable@leftovers
Magic Guard
Bold
252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Sp. Attack
Cosmic Power
Charge Beam
Softboiled
Stored Power

Is this set walled by bulky dark types like Tyranitar? Yes. Is it vulnerable to setup sweepers, especially things like Scizor and SD Aegislash? Absolutely! Is it also weak to common threats like Scizor bullet punches and M-Venusaur sludge bombs? And screwed by phasing? Absolutely, and those are partly reasons that it isn't an S-rank threat. However, dealing with that Clefable set is entirely different from dealing with other common sets, especially unaware sets. This is where the "M-Charizard" factor comes in- people will often throw things like Ferrothorn or Chansey and try to status my Clefable, thinking it's unaware; if that happens, I have at least 3 Cosmic Power boosts by the time they switch to a better response. This set sweeps teams; I've come back from 5-0 and 6-0 even. The best way to deal with it is to set up, but then again if it's unaware Clefable then setting up could be like throwing Chansey at a M-Charizard X. You have to make a gamble, and if you respond wrong you lose a lot of momentum at best and at worst you've handed the game away. It's not the best wall, or the best sweeper, but its versatility and excellent typing allow it to function in any role. It's been the all-star of my semistall team, and anything less than A+ is underselling the threat that Clefable presents to teams from stall to HO.
 
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