-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V2) (Last update on post #5189)
- Thread starter alexwolf
- Start date
- Status
Pinsir doesn't have the versatility other pokemon have. Pinsir can't run as much sets as something like Charizard X.
As I already stated, yes. Question is why does that even matter if he is already perfectly equiped for his job? And Zardy for example also has just one set so Pinsir isnt the only one here. And even ZardX has basicly just 2 sets, DD or WoW, not a good example for versatility.
Zard X can swords dance, dragon dance, belly drum or be a more bulky set with will o wisp and roost unlike Pinsir who is almost always gonna have swords dance, quick attack. return and earthquake.
Yes, but Pinsir is a one last shot kind of Pokemon. Yes Talonflame and thunderous revenge a lot of Pokemon, but many of these Pokemon can setup more than one time in a match like Mega Scizor or Mega Gyarados because of how good their typing is defensively or how bulky they are.
Who is ignorant here? SD isnt even mentioned in the usage stats as a move on Charizard nor does it appear in the analysis and i havent seen a single SD Zard in all my games.
for reference: http://paste.ubuntu.com/7027807/
I'm looking at charx's analysis right now and he has 3 sets. dragon dance, bulky dragon dance (which is the exact same set but with different ev's) and will-o-wisp.
I don't see smogon giving an analysis for my stall sets I custom design. Guess that makes my sets bad. It's a bit difficult to surmount something like Heatran if you don't run EQ.
+2 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 180-213 (46.6 - 55.1%) -- 12.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
ZardX isn't restricted to sweeping. Bulky wall breaking is a great thing zard can do.
+2 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 180-213 (46.6 - 55.1%) -- 12.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
ZardX isn't restricted to sweeping. Bulky wall breaking is a great thing zard can do.
Just because something is not used as much as something everyone uses doesn't mean it sucks.
If it was high level play you would have been posting in the victory road forum instead of here.
Maybe I didnt even apply for posting rights there because I despise the whole idea behind it? But this isnt about me, its about Mega Pinsir and his S rank and if the ability to use stuff like SD and Bellydrum puts Charizard into S rank while Pinsir should be A+ i dont know what else to say...
I think there is a lot more too it than just that though. You know what Pinsir is running. It's often difficult to even tell what kind of zard you are looking at based on team preview let alone what sets that zard could be running. This makes Pinsir much easier to check and counter than Charizard X or Y.
I think you are very misguided about what puts the greatest versatile offensive pokemon in the tier in S rank. (fyi Zard X isn't what I'm talking about, I'm talking about Zard in general) Zard is a fantastic offensive pokemon in this metagame due to the reason because it can force so many mindgames pre and post mega. Not only that but all of it's sets are powerful and versatile. When you see Zard in team preview you will shit your pants because it can be any zard, and while looking around the team helps, it only alleviates a bit of pressure. Zard X can run any set from Bulky DD to Tank to Offensive DD to even wall break SD. While Char Y is basically uncounterable depending on it's coverage, if you don't have a blob on your team, prepare to lose, it's that good, and even then it can run tank WoW sets or Physical sets to beat chansey for other special sweeprs like Lati@s. There's more but I'm bored of writing this much about why the top pokemon in the tier is the top pokemon of the tier.
Well you wont see DD sets on Stall teams and hardly any WoW sets on offensive teams so its basicly just balanced teams where you have a chance to face both. And the worst thing that happens to you by mispredicting is that your Azumarill, or what ever you use to counter the most common and more threatening DD set, catches a burn. That might be annoying if you dont have a cleric but its certainly not game breaking. Not knowing if its Y or X is ofc a problem and probably Charizards greatest strength but its not like that level of unpredictability is needed to be S rank.
You seem to missunderstand. I am not doubting Charizards S rank, and I think i know quite well why its S rank, though I doubt that SD or Bellydrum have anything to do with this.
However, I dont think that having more than one usable set is a must have requirement to be S rank. Its obviously nice to have but if you have just one Set and can still sweep most of the meta and even overcome most of your counters and checks with no support outside of Defog your still solid S rank material in my eyes. And honestly if we start using things like SD and BD on Charizard as arguments I am certain that we can find alot more somewhat usable sets for Pinsir as well.
Last edited:
Ok
What
Before I start yammering on about the BILLIONS of things wrong with this sentence,
let me just start off by saying that latios is one of the easiest pokemon to get rid of atm. Just switch in aegislash, click Pursuit, and you're basically done. Same applies to tyranitar or bisharp, and almost every team these days has one pursuit trapper to handle lati@s.
I'll summarize all the things I hate about mega pinsir toward the end.
Next:
What gimmick nearly OHKOs the entire tier after a boost? Seriously, name one pokemon that's avoiding a 2hko after this thing gets an SD up.
+2 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 367-433 (87.3 - 103%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Quagsire: 229-271 (58.1 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Clefable: 252-297 (63.9 - 75.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Not to mention your main argument is usage here. Do I need to point out how flawed it is to base your argument around usage?
Next:
Terrakion and garchomp are scarfers, yes, and while I agree that terrakion needs stone edge, garchomp does not.
252+ Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Pinsir: 184-217 (67.6 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Other scarfers, like Rotom-W and Kyu-B, have accurate moves to defeat you, like volt switch and fusion bolt/ice beam, respectively.
If you haven't tried scarf kyu-b out yet tho, give it a go. It's really good, pls don't pull the "no usage, it must suck" argument on this one.
As far as the "he's weak to SR, well, so are the others" argument, everything else has much more to offer.
Mega charizards have roost and bulk to compensate for SR weakness, and can actually come in multiple times and do what they do. Believe it or not, fire/flying is a pretty cool defensive typing too, and fire/dragon is ok defensive typing too.
Thundurus is actually versatile as hell. Though he lacks recovery, he also only takes 25% from SR instead of 50%, so he has much more to offer than Mega Pinsir.
Meanwhile, Pinsir has lackluster bulk, terrible defensive typing, and no recovery, leaving him unable to switch in more than twice per game really. It's quite difficult to come in safely more than twice a game with mega pinsir against a smart opponent who is using a balanced/offensive team.
So the "he's weak to SR, well, so are the others" argument sorta sucks. Everything else in the tier has more to offer.
What are you even trying to say here? Are you suggesting that Charizard is S rank because of Belly Drum? I'm not gonna talk about this until you rephrase that a little clearer :P
On that note, why do people avoid S --> A+ like the plague?
A+ is a FANTASTIC ranking! All of the pokemon in A+ are pretty commonly seen and are pretty amazing at what they do! They may have some flaws, but that can be compensated for through the (ab)use of it's amazing stats/movepool/abilities/whatever it is that makes it A+.
It's really quite fine if a pokemon is A+; S rank is an honor, but that doesn't make A+ shit. It doesn't mean mega pinsir is going to become worse because its ranking goes down or something, it just means that it belonged there in the first place.
It's really not THAT bad to go down from S--> A+, A+ is still a great rating!
Ok, so let's actually talk about why I don't like Mega Pinsir.
First off, it's frail. Sickeningly so. Don't be fooled by that 120 base defense, it's backed by a terrible 65 base hp and mediocre 90 base special defense. While 65/120/90 bulk doesn't seem so bad, you then have to remember it has what is basically the worst defensive typing in the game: bug/flying.
On top of this, it has no reliable recovery and a quadruple SR weakness, meaning that it REALLY needs bulky pivot support and defog support. This thing has some troubles switching in on moves in general, the only notable thing it can safely switch into is Conkeldurr, and that's only when it isn't mega evolved too. I really don't know what else it can easily take on.
Next off, it's offensive capabilities are far from perfect, and set up opportunities are a tough find. Since you can barely even take a hit, you're gonna have a hard time setting up on anything, especially after rocks. From my personal experience, I can tell you it is VERY hard to set up in the first place. It's power is oh so amazing, but tell me, what does it even set up on?
It can't set up on any of the S ranked mons, that's for sure. It can barely even beat Air Balloon aegislash, if at all, which has been catching some popularity thanks to being able to semi-reliably spin-block excadrill.
IT can't set up on any of the A+ ranked mons except for Deo-D and Mega Venusaur. Deo-D is usually dead within the first 5 turns of the game, and may even fire off a thunder wave even then. Mega Venusaur can actually hit back with sludge bomb or just cripple it with sleep powder if you want to predict/sack Mega Venusaur.
0 SpA Mega Venusaur Sludge Bomb vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 127-150 (46.6 - 55.1%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Everything else in the ranking smacks it with some sort of move and leaves it super weakened, or just kills after rocks.
It can't set up on any of the A ranked mons except Clefable or Hippowdon. Clefable has unaware, and can survive any one hit, and can thunder wave or just moonblast for some damage. Hippowdon can tank a +2 Mega pinsir, Whirlwind it out, Toxic, or even just Stone Edge for the OHKO.
It cannot set up on any of the A- ranked mons except chansey and conkeldurr before mega evolution. Some conk carry rock slide, and Chansey can toxic for some damage, so there's no guarantee you're gonna get away with anything either.
Setting up, as you can see, is never 100% guaranteed and almost always has some type of annoying risk that could occur. Most of the time, you just end up hitting normally without setting up, because "His Lati@s/Thundurus/Talonflame/Terrakion/Mega Manectric/Raikou/Mamoswine is still too healthy to attempt a sweep!"
Sure, you can just dent the switch-in to clean it up next time, but how many times are you even coming in safely? Again, terrible bulk, terrible typing, no recovery, and quadruple SR weakness is not helping your case of "dent it now, clean it later."
This isn't even to mention the things that can take a hit and stop it! Skarmory, the most prominent, finds itself a place on EVERY stall team. If you somehow couldn't check it offensively with Lati@s/Thundurus/Talonflame/Terrakion/Mega Manectric/Raikou/Mamoswine then you STILL have sound defensive answers to it in Rotom-W, Zapdos, Skarmory, and basically any steel type on a balloon, like Heatran or Aegislash.
I dunno about you, but that sounds like a little bit too many checks to be in S rank.
Then there's the versatility argument. Yeah, everybody knows at this point, so I'm not gonna go into it too much. Basically, everybody and their mother knows EXACTLY what mega pinsir does the MOMENT they see it in team preview. nature, evs, moves, everything. It boasts no surprise, no versatility, and nothing that can really throw your opponent off guard. Having multiple sets isn't exactly a requirement for S rank, but its a pretty good place to start.
By the time you've weakened a team up for Mega Pinsir to actually clean, (and this is ONCE it gets a boost, which is exceedingly difficult to get in the first place) any other competent sweeper, like DD mega tyranitar or DD mega gyarados, can clean up that same team. It might even do it better, considering that the aforementioned sweepers don't even have to rely on priority to deal with everything above its speed tier after a boost.
So, let's compare pros and cons of using Mega Pinsir.
Pros:
Good speed. (Still loses out on Lati@s, Terrakion, and other 108s/110s)
Amazing Power
Strong Priority
Strong set up move
Great, easy to spam STAB.
Looks Badass AF
Cons:
No Raw bulk
Bad defensive typing
No recovery
Quadruple SR weakness
Requires heavy support for the above reasons
Bad speed before Mega Evolution
Good amount of offensive checks
Now don't get me wrong. I'm not saying this guy is total crap or anything, that'd be retarded. He's so insanely strong, he's 2HKO'ing every member of stall other than skarmory. Even Quagsire isn't totally safe:
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Quagsire: 198-234 (50.2 - 59.3%) -- 79.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
This guys insane power definitely needs some recognition. There are just a few problems he has (no bulk, SR, tough to set up) that require some support. More support than any of the other S-ranked mons need.
Mega Pinsir for A+
The point is that SD will hardly get you any relevant ohkos/2hkoes that you cant get with Dragon Dance which also boosts your speed and makes you far more versatile. SD limits you to wallbreaking and isnt even that much better at it than the DD set who cant be walled reliably anyway. And if something isnt used at all, neither on low nor on high level play I do indeed think that its a decent argument. Eitherway, you certainly dont have to worry about SD sets when your up against a Zard so its a rather bad argument for its versatility.
That requires SR on the field and your locked into Outrage afterwards, yeah thats much better than Stone Miss :D Kyu is ofc a decent choice as a scarfer/Pinsir stop but the problem remains that revengekilling is a bad argument to use against sweepers, as everything can be revenged.
Always having to roost after coming in also gives your counters a free switch every time and you wont find to many things outside of walls that cant kill you from 50%.
Pinsirs bulk is very good actually, his typing sucks yeah but given his speed, power and priority he doesnt even need it. If everything dies before it can hit you you dont have to take hits and there is nothing else in the meta that can just roflstomp whole teams once its counters are gone. Lose your counter/check to Pinsir and you will most likely lose the game. ZardX/Y can be stopped somehow most of the time due to their lack of priority and speed.
No, i am saying that BD and SD dont realy matter as a moveset option (because they arent used and therefor you dont have to consider them) and shouldnt be used as arguments for Charizards S rank or flexibility.
Because he is the most powerful sweeper in the game and imo the most dangerous mon in the meta. Nothing else punishes you that hard for making a mistake or having bad luck while dealing with it. Imo it was a mistake to put Venu into A+ as its by far the best defensive mon in existence and Pinsir would be an even bigger mistake. Its dangerous as hell and should never be underestimated, not even for a second.
Those things can hurt Pinsir, yes, but they cant kill it and with its speed and priority Pinsir can sweep your ass at 1% life. It doesnt even matter how much dmg it takes as the only things that can hit are either heavy physical walls or faster revengekillers everything else just gets ohkoed. Unaware Clef is 2hkoed by Return and rarely has twave while Moonblast doesnt kill. Hippo can phaze it yes, but its severly crippled afterwards and will most likely get killed by whatever comes in for Pinsir who is still alive after that.
They are far easier to stop than Pinsir. They have more counters and dont even get half as many ohkoes as Pinsir. I dont have much experience with TTar but Gyara at +1 doesnt get many ohkoes, most of the time he will just 2hko, giving the opponent a chance to fight back. Something that Pinsir doesnt.
Because of that its far easier to stop Gyara after it gets going, even though its bulky as hell he can still be worn down. You might lose 2 or even 3 pokes in the process but most of the time you will manage to stop it somehow even without dedicated checks and counters.
Against Pinsir however once your counters/checks are damaged/removed Pinsir just outspeeds and ohkoes everything. You dont even get a chance to hit it, thats makes it so dangerous. I had games where half of my team was unharmed and I still got swept because Pinsir was faster than my remaining mons and just ohkoed them. Against most sweepers for example i can switch in my Gyarados for Intimidate, transform into Mega form and get at least some damage of. Pinsir just pulverizes it like its not there. Had to switch out your physical defensive Zapdos at 80% life while SR is on the field? Too bad Pinsir just ohkoes it now. Your Hippowdon just missed its Stone Edge? gg I guess. That power is just insane and he easily deserves S rank for his power and speed alone imo.
Last edited:
The thing is, gyara can set up on the things it walls till it eventually gets to the point where it DOES ohko everything.
Everything that can wall him also has a way to deal with it. Ferro kills with Powerwhip/Leechseed, Skarm phazes, Venu kills with Sludgebomb Mandibuzz kills with Foulplay etc. Getting more than +1 against a decent player is VERY unlikely. I love Gyara, he is my favorite sweeper mainly because of his bulk and the unique traites of his mega form, but if you get +2 or even +3 on him your opponent most likely messed up big time or has a counter on his team that doesnt care about it.
There's a lot of posts basically summerizing that Pinsir isn't quite as good of a set up sweeper as Charzard-X for various reasons: it's harder to set up, it's a bit easier to wall, and can't boost its speed. And I think that all this true. However, I don't think these means that Pinsir still shouldn't be S rank. Charzard-X is literally the best set up sweeper in all of OU at the moment. However, pokemon with more flaws the Charzard have been S rank before. Keldeo last generation was a great example. Keldeo had very little variation between sets in terms of moves (scarf and specs set both have the same counters), and was walled by common mons such as Jellicent, Celebi, Tentacruel, Latias, Toxicroak, Latios, Gyarados, bulky Starmie, Amoongus, and Slowbro. And its not like these pokemon were just around to counter Keldeo. During the suspect test many of them maintained their usage and only fell a few places. All of these had to be eliminated before Keldeo could even attempt to do anything.
I'm not trying to say that Keldeo and Pinsir are similar because they're not. I'm also not going to say whether I think Pinsir should be A+ rank or S rank, because there's a lot of good arguments for both sides and honestly I don't really know. I just wanted to say that a mon doesn't have to be as monstrous or lacking in counters as Charzard-X to be qualified for S rank.
I'm not trying to say that Keldeo and Pinsir are similar because they're not. I'm also not going to say whether I think Pinsir should be A+ rank or S rank, because there's a lot of good arguments for both sides and honestly I don't really know. I just wanted to say that a mon doesn't have to be as monstrous or lacking in counters as Charzard-X to be qualified for S rank.
Last edited:
Entering the Pinsir conversation about moving to A+ rank.. before I get on about Mega Pinsir and all that shenanigans, let me put up the ranks:
Now to begin with the writing. Before you begin reading this, keep in mind this is my opinion about Mega Pinsir. Anyway, people have been comparing, or been talking about Char X and Mega Pinsir, some saying that Mega Pinsir is somewhat outclassed for many reasons, such as no recovery, seemingly harder to set-up with, and common sets. Now, while all of this is true, Mega Pinsir has it's upsides. You should first realize that in general, Mega Pinsir has much more spammable moves in Return, where as Char X only has... Outrage and Flare Blitz. Charizard X is more powerful, but due to the fairy types (Azumaril...) Outrage can be quite reckless, and Flare Blitz gives you large recoil damage. Regardless, depending on if you choose to use Flare Blitz/Outrage, you will be hitting weaker or harder then Mega Pinsir, and you will always be hitting slightly weaker if you meet up with a random Pinsir with Double-Edge. Now, both of them have extremely powerful attacks that are comparable. Pinsir does have worse speed on the first turn, but better base speed after Mevo, while Mega Charizard sits at a 100 Base Speed. Mega Pinsir also likes packing Quick Attack, which, paired with STAB and the Aerilate boost, is only about one point weaker than Extreme Speed. Both Mevos also share an identical Stealth Rock weakness, that is somewhat the opposite of eachother. Charizard loses about half of it's health on switch in on Stealth Rock, but after words only about 25%. Where as Pinsir loses 25%, then loses about half of it's health after Mega Evolving, meaning that this is usually better. Obviously, both of them have their counters, but putting that aside we can usually see that Pinsir is only a hair better is matters of power, but what makes it seem worse? It's absolutely horrid typing. Bug-Flying has five weaknesses, including one that is 4x Effective, while only having 3 resistances and 1 immunity, two of which, aren't even very common (Grass and Bug). While the types themselves are decent, together they are.. horrible. What I mostly hate though, is Mega Pinsir's power of killing things. Mega Pinsir can easily destroy offensive teams, or 2HKO many Pokemon of the Tier with just a Quick Attack, but it's wallbreaking capabilities aren't very impressive. What I think stops it is that it gets walled pretty hard by the god known as Skarmory (Which is found in almost every stall team). Here's a calc to prove it:
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 142-168 (42.5 - 50.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Even if you're lucky enough to get a +2, Skarmory will phase you out before you can get any more SD's up. Did I mention that Air Balloon Heatran can deal with Mega Pinsir well too (If it's not carrying CC)? What I personally think that makes Mega Charizard X so dangerous is that it can safely run through a majority of OU, and close to nothing switches in on Dragon/Fire STABS except Azumarill (As long as Charizard doesn't have a +1 boost up). Also, no priority is super effective against it, the strongest priority against it is Choice Banded Talonflame Brave Bird, but Talonflame dies from a Dragon Claw without Boost (Factoring Recoil damage). The only safe way to counter it is by revenge-killing, good luck with that though! The safest to use are Terrakion, Garchomp, and Deoxys-S. But let it get +2 speed on you and... well let's say it's not the best sight for you.
But enough with that, let's actually look at Mega Pinsir by itself, instead of comparing it to Charizard X. Pinsir has reliable coverage, boasts stupidly high attack, is most definitely worth a Mega Slot, and can just cause lot's of chaos to the opposing team in general, with or without a SD up. It destroys almost everything on offensive teams (especially HO teams). It al- Wait. I realized something. I was just about to babble on about Pinsir and it's pros and cons. But there's something I noticed in the middle of writing this (Don't blame me, my mind is chaotic). It isn't Pinsir, it's the game. In Generation 5, Mega Pinsir would've easily been something that is so frightening, possibly even more so then Ubers Pokemon. But Mega Pinsir decided to come at the wrong moment, where Azumarill gets insane Dual-Stab, where Talonflame flies overtop of about 15% of all teams, where Stealth Rock is found on any team, where Stall Teams are slowly but surely getting more prevalent. Pinsir just doesn't have the strength to pull through, it's like a lawnmower that was going just fine, but breaks. Every single reason that I put down on this post, weather you noticed it or not, are the reason I think that Mega Pinsir should drop down to A+ Rank. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention is also fits pretty nicely under the A Rank definition too. Just another reminder, I would like if you wouldn't talk smack on me and nitpick every single god damn thing I did wrong or whatever. Keep in mind that this post is MY opinion, and I rather not get into fights (A little racist here, but this no fighting nature is what comes along with you being Canadian) :D
Now to begin with the writing. Before you begin reading this, keep in mind this is my opinion about Mega Pinsir. Anyway, people have been comparing, or been talking about Char X and Mega Pinsir, some saying that Mega Pinsir is somewhat outclassed for many reasons, such as no recovery, seemingly harder to set-up with, and common sets. Now, while all of this is true, Mega Pinsir has it's upsides. You should first realize that in general, Mega Pinsir has much more spammable moves in Return, where as Char X only has... Outrage and Flare Blitz. Charizard X is more powerful, but due to the fairy types (Azumaril...) Outrage can be quite reckless, and Flare Blitz gives you large recoil damage. Regardless, depending on if you choose to use Flare Blitz/Outrage, you will be hitting weaker or harder then Mega Pinsir, and you will always be hitting slightly weaker if you meet up with a random Pinsir with Double-Edge. Now, both of them have extremely powerful attacks that are comparable. Pinsir does have worse speed on the first turn, but better base speed after Mevo, while Mega Charizard sits at a 100 Base Speed. Mega Pinsir also likes packing Quick Attack, which, paired with STAB and the Aerilate boost, is only about one point weaker than Extreme Speed. Both Mevos also share an identical Stealth Rock weakness, that is somewhat the opposite of eachother. Charizard loses about half of it's health on switch in on Stealth Rock, but after words only about 25%. Where as Pinsir loses 25%, then loses about half of it's health after Mega Evolving, meaning that this is usually better. Obviously, both of them have their counters, but putting that aside we can usually see that Pinsir is only a hair better is matters of power, but what makes it seem worse? It's absolutely horrid typing. Bug-Flying has five weaknesses, including one that is 4x Effective, while only having 3 resistances and 1 immunity, two of which, aren't even very common (Grass and Bug). While the types themselves are decent, together they are.. horrible. What I mostly hate though, is Mega Pinsir's power of killing things. Mega Pinsir can easily destroy offensive teams, or 2HKO many Pokemon of the Tier with just a Quick Attack, but it's wallbreaking capabilities aren't very impressive. What I think stops it is that it gets walled pretty hard by the god known as Skarmory (Which is found in almost every stall team). Here's a calc to prove it:
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 232+ Def Skarmory: 142-168 (42.5 - 50.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Even if you're lucky enough to get a +2, Skarmory will phase you out before you can get any more SD's up. Did I mention that Air Balloon Heatran can deal with Mega Pinsir well too (If it's not carrying CC)? What I personally think that makes Mega Charizard X so dangerous is that it can safely run through a majority of OU, and close to nothing switches in on Dragon/Fire STABS except Azumarill (As long as Charizard doesn't have a +1 boost up). Also, no priority is super effective against it, the strongest priority against it is Choice Banded Talonflame Brave Bird, but Talonflame dies from a Dragon Claw without Boost (Factoring Recoil damage). The only safe way to counter it is by revenge-killing, good luck with that though! The safest to use are Terrakion, Garchomp, and Deoxys-S. But let it get +2 speed on you and... well let's say it's not the best sight for you.
But enough with that, let's actually look at Mega Pinsir by itself, instead of comparing it to Charizard X. Pinsir has reliable coverage, boasts stupidly high attack, is most definitely worth a Mega Slot, and can just cause lot's of chaos to the opposing team in general, with or without a SD up. It destroys almost everything on offensive teams (especially HO teams). It al- Wait. I realized something. I was just about to babble on about Pinsir and it's pros and cons. But there's something I noticed in the middle of writing this (Don't blame me, my mind is chaotic). It isn't Pinsir, it's the game. In Generation 5, Mega Pinsir would've easily been something that is so frightening, possibly even more so then Ubers Pokemon. But Mega Pinsir decided to come at the wrong moment, where Azumarill gets insane Dual-Stab, where Talonflame flies overtop of about 15% of all teams, where Stealth Rock is found on any team, where Stall Teams are slowly but surely getting more prevalent. Pinsir just doesn't have the strength to pull through, it's like a lawnmower that was going just fine, but breaks. Every single reason that I put down on this post, weather you noticed it or not, are the reason I think that Mega Pinsir should drop down to A+ Rank. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention is also fits pretty nicely under the A Rank definition too. Just another reminder, I would like if you wouldn't talk smack on me and nitpick every single god damn thing I did wrong or whatever. Keep in mind that this post is MY opinion, and I rather not get into fights (A little racist here, but this no fighting nature is what comes along with you being Canadian) :D
Heatran....
Also, I don't think Mega Pinsir is a A+ Pokemon, it is easily an S Tier. The reason why its checks and counters have become so popular is because you NEED them. Mega Pinsir is one of the scariest pokemon in OU without a doubt. Though I feel Mega Charizard X is overall better thanks to a immunity to burn and roost healing. Charizard doesn't have the raw power of +2 Aerilate Return. One of the most powerful moves in all of OU.
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-W: 169-200 (55.5 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Even bulky Pokemon such as Rotom-W thats resist its STAB cannot switch into it. And with excellent coverage in Earthquake, a 78 power priority in Quick Attack. He also forms one of the deadliest offensive cores in OU alongside Talonflame or Staraptor. For these reasons, I believe Mega Pinsir is a S rank pokemon and the second best mega evolution in the tier.
Although Mega Charizard X is a S rank pokemon, there is no doubt about it. I think Charizard Y should be moved down to A+. Although Charizard Y is easily one the hardest hitters in the tier with Sun-Boosted Fire Blasts coming off 458(!) Special attack. He just is too easily revenge killed or just out right stopped by the following pokemon(keep in mind not all of them put full stops to Zard Y)
-Blissey (Hard Counter)
-Chansey (Hard Counter)
-Garchomp (Revenge Killed)
-Excadrill (Revenge Killed by Choice Scarf)
-Terrakion (Revenage Killed)
-Snorlax (Can Switch in do whatever it wants)
-Mega Charizard X (Doesn't Mega Evolve, then DDs)
-Talonflame (CB Brave Bird is OHKO)
-Tyranitar (CS revenge kills)
-Latias (Counter)
-Latios (Counter)
-Goodra (Hard Counter)
-Thundurus (Revenge Kills)
-Dragonite (As long as there are no rocks up, can kill)
-Landorus-I (Needs rock slide to revenge kill)
-Landorus-T (Needs CS to revenge kill)
-Heatran (Fears FB, needs CS to revenge kill)
-Hippowdon (Bit soft of a check but puts an end to sun,)
Also, the definition of a S-tier Pokemon is
S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support, and Pokemon who can support other Pokemon with very little opportunity cost ("free turns"). Also the home of Pokemon who can easily perform multiple roles effectively, increasing their versatility and unpredictability. If the Pokemon in this rank have any flaws, those flaws are thoroughly mitigated by their substantial strengths.
Unfortunately, Charizard Y cannot sweep or wall significant portions of the metagame with little support. Unless a near mandatory Pursuit trapper and Defogger is little team support. Charizard Y also cannot perform multiple roles. Its too slow to be a sweeper, so he usually only is used as a wallbreaker. An actual S rank Pokemon, such as Charizard X, doesn't need much more than a Defogger, and can be used as a Sweeper, Wallbreaker, Bulky Sweeper if one is running Bulky DD, or Tank if it is is running the tank set.
Last edited:
One underrated mon that you should at least consider for D/C- rank is Porygon2's oft forgotten brother, PorygonZ. While there isn't as much of a shortage this gen when it comes to good non-Uber Nasty Plot users, PorygonZ's access to Adaptability, absurd base SpA (the only other Plot/Glow abusers with that kind of power being Manaphy counting the free +1 from Tail Glow and Thundy-T) as well as nice coverage overall with Tri Attack/Dark Pulse/HPFighting give him a solid niche. His retarded amount of power even before a boost means that he forces quite a few switches with which he can boost up. He can also run Specs, Scarf, Agility, or even Double Dance if you're feeling ballsy, all rather smoothly but they don't seem to work quite as well in OU from my experience. He's definitely not amazing, but with the right team behind him he can deadly. Granted, my main account is still in the 1500s, so maybe I've just been fighting scrubs who can't stop a booster.
- Status