NOC Great Idea Mafia-Game Over! Mafia, vonFiedler, and More Cowbell win!

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I said I'd post this "within the hour" and it's not quite correct. I apologize for the delay, something came up, notably a library timer. I fully expect to be subbed out soon, so I am now airing out my suspicions. For all not wondering, I've been grounded for oversleeping, and I've been trying to find opportunities for posting. My parents and brother are out of the house now, so I've returned home so I could finish typing the post. I may or may not have another chance to post again while everyone's sleeping. To my sub, if I am indeed subbed out today or tomorrow: I tried hinting at my role somewhere in my posts, you'll know when you see it. Hopefully. I apologize for the spot I'm putting you in. :/

As for this post, I think I've already explicitly stated that I didn't want to do another one this long. I'm taking Celever's accusations seriously, though. I could come up with a million and one excuses to why I haven't posted at all, but I know that won't get me very far. I did NOT intentionally coast on the fact that everyone sees me as town. In fact, I thought only a select few people really did, to be fair. I already tried to ask people to do this, and I'll ask again. PLEASE look into my posts and try to find something more scummy than "he hasn't posted today." Not one of you seemed to have done that. I've yet to have a serious vote on me. Why is it that I'm my worst enemy in this game? Should I be concerned? Really? It actually does bother me that no one's really casting suspicion on me but one person.

Lastly, this whole "pressure vote" thing we have going on here is accomplishing very little. I'm not entirely sure if the maf is pressuring Pokeguy to crack like the newb he is, or if they're trying to snatch an excuse for seeming more town, but either way it's not really doing much for us. I would think tagging him in every post would be just fine, and this whole "pressure vote" thing wouldn't bother me as much if not for the fact that every vote on Felony D1 outside of Walrein's was considered a pressure vote. We need majority to lynch some one this time, yes, but at this point in the game, pressure votes will only work against us.


Comments on players:
On Pokeguy-- There's another reason why I don't feel entirely comfortable with a Pokeguy lynch today. It's pretty WIFOM-y, so take it with a grain of salt, but I would think that the mafia would be pressuring him to post even more than the village would be at this point, unless they were saving him for an easy bus. Certainly possible. Also, I looked into Pokeguy's latest excuse, and I have reason to think it's legit. If you check up on his activity, you'll notice that the guy hasn't even visited the site since Thursday, and last I checked his activity, he had another long gap from Monday to Thursday. I think his behavoir is more grounds for substitution rather than lynching. Yeah, he's a pretty shitty procrastinator, but I would honestly think the mafia would get on his butt for coming up with so many excuses.

On Starwarsfan: Not comfortable with his sudden change from being almost exclusively defensive Day 2 and Day 1, useless Day 3, and then being pretty aggressive Day 4. Did he even bother defending himself a bit today? At the same time, I don’t like how many players seem to think that he’s the ONLY scummy player in the game at the moment, including our mayor. We need some fanning out, if only a bit. It seems odd to me that everyone was on his ass day 1 and day 2, only Walrein voted for him Day 3, and then all of a sudden he's the scummiest person on the planet. I actually wouldn't mind a starwarsfan lynch today at all, given that he's pretty much done nothing to discredit the attacks toward him, only trying to attack the people he deems scummier than himself.

But, to be fair, there hasn't really been a lot of new thoughts on him to defend himself against. So far the reasoning could be "he hasn't been contributing all game" and the same argument could be made for people like me, or Tesung. Might I ask why he's up on the chopping block instead of myself or Tesung? I understand that he "lead" the lynch on Obbmund, and the constant change in playstyle really rubs me the wrong way, but what's changed now that wasn't the case yesterday?

On Obbmund: Fairly interesting claim, I’m inclined to believe it. The only way I could possibly see it being false is if shinyskarmory helped out with fake-claims and Obbmund got one of the better ones. I doubt this, though. This would give the mafia way too information on setup, if it were true. I mistook him for getting on the mayor for some reason, but other than that, I've been getting fairly townish vibes toward him.

On cxlee: dude, please elaborate on your reads, if just a bit. I don’t care if you think two of the scummiest players in this game are asking you to do it, you must must must elaborate. Also, you’ve only made reads on about a quarter of the game, some of which aren't even entirely complete.
As for Walrein, I still don't like his flip from starwars to Felony at the end of d1, on what was some pretty shaky logic. Then, he did get onto Ullar a lot in Day 2. Like I said, I don't think that just because someone helped in lynching a neutral, that wouldn't make them clear. In my eyes, every side won with that Ullar lynch; Town gets someone who isn't them, and maf gets townie points and someone who isn't them. And then he said Celever was scummy, and tries to say he'll do reads on him. We didn't get those, did we? Even with the Cancerous kill "throwing him in for a loop" I would still think that he'd at least point out something, instead of immedeately discrediting his opinion. I can't exactly call him out for the inactivity, but he's definitely shaky in my eyes. His sub isn't doing much better. I don't really have enough proof to say "OMG HE'S SCUM PLZ LYNCH NOW" but I think I definitely need to keep an eye on him.

LightWolf: The dude still doesn't quite sit right with me, I'll admit. Any points I make on him will more than likely disregard the whole argument with Celever, but this guy is hard to read. Yeah, he overracted a shit ton and pretty much shifted the day to "all about Celever" but I can't really find any odd contradictions in his posts. That said, I have NOT read the entire argument yet, so I will revisit him later today, if I can. He at least is being fairly cautious today.

More Cowbell: I can't really find anything wrong with you. You're the player I wish I could be, making long, detailed posts, fanning out appropriately, and never really having any kind of trouble with inactivity outside of day one. I don't really like the sudden pressure vote on Pokeguy, but other than that, you've seemed blatantly town to me. And of course, you've pretty much been invisible the entire game. I'd ask for some of your more recent thoughts on some of the other players. Perhaps I'm a tad naive in thinking your a townie, but you're probably the only person I've practically overlooked. If you are a mafia, you're doing an excellent job at it. I think I really need to look at you a bit more closely.

Tesung: He's shaky with me as well, on the account that a) he's been suspected a lot, and b) hasn't really come up with anything new or interesting. We play very similarly, it seems, although I think he's trying his hardest to contribute. The only real difference between us is that for the most part, I've been fairly under the radar and Tesung's been in everyone's grill all game, with him bandwagoning often and myself hardly ever voting. I think this is the closest thing to a "null" read I have here, although I'd like it if people would try to stop harping on Tesung's early game weirdness and start actually paying attention to his more recent posts. His vote on starwars wasn't entirely unjustified, at least not when I went back and read it, but I feel like his posts aren't exactly leaning in one way or the other. He seems fairly inconsistent, but perhaps he's just confused? Out of all the new players, he's easily my toughest read.

Ace Emerald: If there's one thing I'd note about Ace, it would probably be that he hasn't gotten nearly as much flack as anyone else in this game. At all. I don't exactly see what makes him town, to be completely honest. A lot of his posts don't seem to really do much, and if I didn't know better, I'd think that the overwhelming amount of votes on Tesung is an example of tunneling. What would I know, though? I said he was fairly town because of "super bias" in my first relevant post. but the more I look at the posts, the more I wonder why we're all insta-credding him with town. Surely Celever, who seems dead-set on warning everyone that LW isn't confirmed town, would point this out too? But instead, he's actually his best town read. Might I ask why? To everyone. What makes this guy so towny? To starwars, to Celever, and to anyone else who gave a read on the guy. In my perspective, he's been playing pretty much the same way I have been, only he has an excuse. Oh, and he's been voting Tesung the entire game I suppose. My vote hasn't really gone anywhere, at all.


Celever: I've been tossing back and forth on this guy for days, He's probably the most important person in the game, or at least one of the biggest discussion topics thus far. He's been a part in discussion every day, posts his reads almost daily, seeming genuinely concerned that he'll be killed off before the next day. That''s some major town points, apparently. A full on analysis on this guy could probably take me the time it took to type the rest of this post, actually. For my own sanity, I'm going to try to disregard the LW-Celever feud and instead just post my current thoughts on some of his more...recent actions. Like LightWolf, I will try to revisit him later tonight when no one's awake and I can get more internet, but for now my thoughts aren't strong in one way or the other.

I think it's obvious that Celever seems intent on leading this village in the best way that he can. But is it for the right side? I said in my very first relevant post that I was willing to buy a town on town fight, but my read on him was certainly null at that point. He seems deadset on becoming the town's leader, tagging people, talking whenever he gets the chance, etc. etc. So why am I so floatly about him though? To be honest, I am not entirely sure. Perhaps it's because he's trying much harder now than he was earlier in the game, which one could take many different ways. Perhaps it's because he got on LightWolf for being possibly-not-town when he himself isn't very better at this point. Or maybe it's because I'm on edge that he's the only person in the game ever to really suspect me. Hard to say, I think it might be a combonation of all these.
He certainly seems town, but there's something a little...off? Should I say that? Especially regarding some of his more recent posts. I think I'll pry into him a bit more, perhaps into a separate post if possible. One thing I have noticed though is that he's never willing to talk about starwarsfan or Ace Emerald, and was really quick to point out how "he doesn't mind buddying." Perhaps that's what Felony meant by being so defensive? No one really even mentioned buddying and you found the need to make a post like that as early as possible. You're fairly null to me, but be prepared to answer some questions if I get this night post in.
 
I suppose I should through in a conclusion. For those who won't read my posts completely, here's an abridged version:

--You guys are getting on Pokeguy for all the wrong reasons. This lynch does not sit well with me.
--Starwars I'd be a bit more comfy with. I don't like how he's going out of his way to not seem scummy, and I also don't like his ever changing playstyle. Also, where are the rest of those reads? I would like even more input from him and from others about him, though.
--Obbmund is apparently confirmed
--Walrein/Cxnlee isn't making me feel very impressed. I think I need to take a closer look at him.
LightWolf is pretty null. I must revisit ASAP.
-- There's a few things bothering me about More Cowbell but overall he seems very town.
-- Tesung needs to have more arguments against him. I can't really tell if you're noob town or noobscum.
-- Ace Emerald is also under the radar, and unlike More Cowbell, I'm not nearly as impressed with his posts.
-- Celever is pretty hard to read. Like LightWolf, I'll need to revisit. There's a few logic points and vote decisions that are bothering the shit out of me.
 
What a magnificent tell. I call you out and you come running. You purposely didn't mention me because you want people to think "oh, he's not responding just cause vonFiedler called him out, cause he didn't know vonFiedler was in the game." My vote stays.
 
Alright, since it's been a while since I've said something and not too much discussion is going on at the moment, I'll post some short reads on the players still in the game right now, going in order of shinyskarmory's original playerlist:

1. Ace Emerald: I haven't found much wrong with AE in this game; I feel his play is genuine, and trying to spark discussion and helping out the village when possible. I'm leaning town here.
4. Celever: Celever's been a major point of discussion, but I feel like he defended himself well. He was basically the first to bring more attention to Walrein, LightWolf and me, which is good (like LW said before, be suspicious of everyone, where many new players are likely to be very trusting of more experienced players). I still believe Celever vs. LightWolf was a Town vs. Town discussion.
5. Tesung: Tesung is a new player, and that's quite obvious. I don't feel he's been adding much to discussions, but in general didn't stand out much either positively or negatively. Among my 4 most suspicious players (and since we likely have 4 mafia members in this game, that puts Tesung towards the scum-end of the spectrum for me).
6. spiresquire: first of all, thanks for the compliments, but that won't mean I'll go easy on you :) sqiresquire so far has proven to be quite interesting, with a variation of both long, detailed posts and long periods of inactivity. I'm personally neutral on him; nothing so far has made me consider him really scummy (though that last post could be some blatant buddying), though nothing has made me believe he's definitely town either. Some of those longer posts look very promising, but overall too little really says ''town'' here.
8. LightWolf: the other side of Celever vs. LightWolf, and like I said before, I consider both town. I'm hesitant around LW since I know what play he's capable of (once again, see Mafia from the Depths), but some of the theories he's come up with and his general behaviour make me consider him town.
10. More Cowbell: great guy, confirmed town IMO
11. Obbmud99: much like spiresquire, Obbmud has been a bit on and off, but his Mason claim sounds legit (as in, it has not been disproved so far, while someone could easily have stepped up and claimed Mason as well). That claim makes me think neutral-town here.
12. Paperblade/PokeguyNXB/VonFiedler: Paperblade and PokeguyNXB gave us very, very little to work with, but VonFiedler goes right on the offensive, which may be just what we need, seeing as today has otherwise been very silent. I'm hesitant to instantly go for spiresquire as well, though Von brings up some legit points. No real tell so far, I want to see how this day moves on with Von playing as well.
13. starwarsfan: I've voiced my opinions on starwarsfan before, and he's still my #1 scum right now. Activity while under fire, absence when not, and has added very little to ongoing discussions.
15. Walrein/cxinlee: Walrein was inactive, but I still can't find much wrong with the few posts he did make. cxinlee luckily is more active, and quite aggressive as well, but I feel his posts lack explanation and reason. Overall, my read is neutral, mostly because of the few okay posts Walrein made. cxinlee really should expand on some of his accusations.

One thing about spiresquire's post that drew my attention is that ''he tried hinting at his role in one of his posts'' - why would you do that, exactly? I'm under the impression that keeping your role hidden is usually the wisest thing to do in NOC (unless it would provide some absolutely essential information or insight), so hinting at your role is... weird.
 
starwarsfan said:
Oh yeah, one more thing: von, I do think there might be some of that, however he did say he was writing up a post an hour or so before you were even subbed in.
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Which he took like 3 hours to post. He even made two posts, he can't even check the thread? He had to have at least known, even if he couldn't be assed to respond (for much the same reason I suggested). Also;

I fully expect to be subbed out soon, so I am now airing out my suspicions.
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He KNOWS there isn't gonna be a sub. Shinyskarmory ran flat out, no one wants to play this game. So he can make a big ineffective buddy buddy post and just disappear. I mean who would lynch him just because he is grounded? I would.
 
spiresquire said:
I am typing. You can expect a very large post from me within the hour. I apologize for my recent inactivity, real life circumstances have made it rather difficult to sit down and type up long posts. I might be subbed out, but hopefully I can contribute at least until the day's end. :B
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I am afraid that you have lied, and you have not posted your "large post". Scum detected. Not going to vote on it now because I don't want to approach mafia lynch range quite yet. I would like to see this post he has in the making before we pull the trigger.
Also welcome to the game vonFiedler.
 
Obbmud99 said:
I am afraid that you have lied, and you have not posted your "large post". Scum detected. Not going to vote on it now because I don't want to approach mafia lynch range quite yet. I would like to see this post he has in the making before we pull the trigger.
Also welcome to the game vonFiedler.
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http://www.smogon.com/forums/thread...y-4-vote-count-1.3505374/page-24#post-5460026

Anyway, after this post I have 1998 posts, so I might not be able to post until I figure out what I want to do for my 2K.
 
Obbmud99 said:
I am afraid that you have lied, and you have not posted your "large post". Scum detected. Not going to vote on it now because I don't want to approach mafia lynch range quite yet. I would like to see this post he has in the making before we pull the trigger.
Also welcome to the game vonFiedler.
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Spiresquire did make his large post. For someone who hasn't paid much attention to spiresquire before, Obbmud, you seem very eager to jump onto him. Besides, why would it be 'pulling the trigger' already? Look at PokeguyNXB, it's not like the whole game is going to jump on one person because of not posting a ''large post'' as promised (and once again, spiresquire did make his post). Strange case of sudden aggression right here.

Also starwarsfan, you better acknowledge me in your 2k or I'll lynch you
 
I see that no one's going to make it easy for me today. I figured as much. :/ For your information von, I only read up to around page 22 when I started initially started typing that post. I expected it to be posted by around 1:30 today. But, I got caught up in shit that I'd much rather not get into. I got home at around 4:00, and continued typing the post. You're absolutely right, I should've read the thread, but I was overly concerned with posting something of substance. I was prodded, and tagged multiple times, and I felt the need to respond to these players in an adequate fashion. Not a "lol sorry I can't" post. That long post was in no way a response for you. The only "defense" I can really come up for these arguments is that I'm stupid and that I'm trying to get SOMETHING in before I'm caught for getting on a computer when told explicitly not to. Not convincing, I know. Sue me for making a post at the wrong place at the wrong time.

The way I see it, your initial reasoning for lynching me is little more than a policy. If you're a lurker and you're not mafia, than I 100% have to be? What? I have tried to get others to look into me in my last Day 3 post. My guess is as good as yours on why they didn't, but you're right. I have been under the radar. But that doesn't guarantee a mafia. I think that we're both town being setup as vulnerable lynch targets today to snag an easy win. I don't think I was "buddying" with Pokeguy, do you? Just look at his profile, and you'll see that he hasn't been on at all since Thursday. I didn't say OMG HE'S CLEAR GAIS, I said a lynch on him would be pretty stupid at this point. It would've been. Feel free to keep your vote on me if you insist, but I'd really appreciate it if you talked about other players as well. With your super objective observation powers, I'm sure you'd have more to say, right?

Ah, I thought the sub comment might stir up something when I said it. I thought that I was more than likely to be subbed; I've practically requested it. When shinyskarmory prodded me, he told me that I will be subbed out if I don't post. I told him that I'm going to have a hard time posting thanks to my grounding and that I felt actually uncomfortable playing around my parents like that. My punishment is lifted on Monday, but from the looks of it, that'll be too late. Maybe I'm being too pessimistic?

I've become desperate. So, I decided that if they give my maybe-sub a hard time, he could look back into my earlier posts to where I've hinted my role, as a last resort if things get really shitty. I feel as though he or she would have the right to know that I didn't want to leave them with absolutely nothing. I also figured that maybe if I told people that I was hinting at something, they'd actually pay attention to my posts. I feel as though I lot of my points have been brushed over entirely no mayor because it would've claimed by now , that I've been practically ignored. Otherwise, I'm sure more people would actually point out flaws in my logic. Like I said, I've been my own enemy this game, at least until you came along. <_< Perhaps it's because my posts don't have that much substance to them, I don't know. I tried my hardest to express my opinions as I have them, even if was as something as trivial as Ullar's lynching or lame statistics.

To express your concerns, More Cowbell, yes, my role MIGHT be able to reveal something, but that depends if there's a very specific role in the game. That same role could also make my time in this game rather difficult. So far, this role hasn't surfaced, and I was almost certain that it would today. The role I have is a very poor claim. One that if I were to outright claim it, I would almost certainly be killed, although not necessarily during the day. I figured it'd be for the best if I were to softclaim it early on. If push comes to shove, I'll reveal it. But for now I'd rather not give the mafia more information than they already have. Feel free to look for it if you're that curious.

This post has been extremely defensive, I know. I think all these accusations are distracting me from what I should be doing as a town player, but at the same time I feel as though I could do better than this. I would like it if people tried to look into my concerns though! I don't know why people think my post is "buddy-buddy" when I only have like two positive reads out of nine, both on players the town have already deemed townish. I even said in one of the positive reads that I think I might need to revisit it. If anything, I'd probably point out that my reads are far too indecisive. :/ Would it help if a made a list? Seemed to work for Celever just fine.
 
I disagree on the spiresquire lynch for the same reasons as the pokeguy one, it's too easy of a push on someone similarly unable to properly defend themselves. Also:

What a magnificent tell. I call you out and you come running. You purposely didn't mention me because you want people to think "oh, he's not responding just cause vonFiedler called him out, cause he didn't know vonFiedler was in the game." My vote stays.
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von, he posted he'd be making a huge post BEFORE you subbed in, if anything it was mostly a reaction to Celever calling him out or starwarsfan alerting the whole game to start doing stuff. Also of course his post leaves out the fact pokeguy was subbed, when he started writing it you weren't in the game yet and then according to his claims he was in a rush to finish and post it before being caught. Also it sounds very much as if you are throwing, saying you would lynch him for jsut being grounded even. Also you have a grand total of 2 suspects when there is at least 4 enemies left, you should widen your perspectives.

Speaking of starwarsfan, he goes ahead and makes a post calling out people for not posting for the last X hours, but fails to do anything meaningful out of his own accord(minus getting himself onto the Not Voting list at last). All his posts have been reactionary, and still with so little actual content.

Also is no one seriously gonna point out, the MAJOR BACKPEDALING that Celever pulled off yesterday? He makes a agitated post saying why to lynch Pokeguy, and then when confronted about it his reaction is "I assumed that you guys would get that the lynch in Pokeguy, like before, was for inactivity." He really REALLY tries to sell that huge rant off as a PROD POST??? starwarsfan had no vote on him so he didn't need to unvote in a grand fashion like Celever but he threatened to lynch him just as much and does not even react to said accusations about pushing a lynch on someone easy.
 
spiresquire you talked so much about your damned role essentially asking the mafia to kill you by saying it's that good, heck it likely isn't that hard to figure it out between reading your not so numerous posts, looking through the list and then crossreferencing it with what you just said. So yeah at this point you might as well tell us what you are.
 
Obbmud99 said:
I am afraid that you have lied, and you have not posted your "large post". Scum detected. Not going to vote on it now because I don't want to approach mafia lynch range quite yet. I would like to see this post he has in the making before we pull the trigger.
Also welcome to the game vonFiedler.
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This is awful and is starting to make me reconsider my read.
 
Oh fine. I actually kept saying that it was BAD. I figured that maybe the maf would think that this wouild be running a shitty gambit putting up the "oh my role is garbage" up as a red herring, but it's actually true! I am the Wrong Place at the Wrong Time Townie. Here on page nine I made a very piss-poor attempt at softclaiming it.

Oh, it looks like I've been tagged again. ._. I really ought to keep track of this game. So, as of late I've contributed the exact same amount to this game as my predecessor. Absolutely nothing but a wasted vote and an easy lynch/kill target for mafia. How fabulous. I guess it didn't help that I formed most of my opinions into the wrong place and at the wrong time, but to be fair, I haven't spent the night entirely clueless. I've been reading up on Circus NOC's since my entry into this game so that I could answer a few of my own questions and also come to terms with what's going on here.
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It was my very first relevant post. One could argue that since I had a night to think about it, I could've easily faked it. That's fair enough. I honestly should've claimed it on my very first post, but that seemed to be too scummy in my eyes. "Oh I'll immediately claim a miller role, that certainly isn't suspicious at all". And, I was worried that if I didn't claim it, I would be mislynched on the grounds that I've been detected by a watcher report. Later on though, I realized that maybe I could help clear someone!

Messed up C and B: C Should read 3T, 4M, 2N and B should be 4T, 3M, 2N. I'm confusing myself, damnit. :/
Anyhow, if there was a watcher on Cancerous or a Tracker on anyone who visited him, that'd be nice to know.
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I realized that I am probably one of the only few who could easily tell the difference between a real Watcher report, and a fake one. A fake one wouldn't have me on it. A real one would actually incriminate me, but at least we'd have a shot at confirming a clear. Therefore, if anyone had tried to claim watcher, I could possibly discredit them. Of course, this is botched if they picked up on my claim, or had a Talent Scout on me for some strange reason, but it was a thought. I was almost certain that if there was a watcher today, they would've easily been able to deduce that the mayor would be killed. It would've been too obvious! But, the fact that no one's claimed makes me think there isn't a watcher. Therefore, I'm a named townie essentially. Only unlike the mason claim, I don't exactly have math to back me up. There's only one of these roles in the game, and it's already a scummy one from the get go.

Cxnlee, first, I'd like for you to try to really think about your "gut feelings." Those are what interest me the most.
 
LightWolf said:
Also it sounds very much as if you are throwing, saying you would lynch him for jsut being grounded even.
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No, it's because I think he's lying. Why exactly are you so defensive of him? Just look at the sapstorm he just posted. If we feel all sawwy for him for another 24 hours, not hard when no one posts, then his team wins the game. You call it an "easy" lynch. But who is your hard target then? Celever? You need to distance yourself, as a guy who has been there, you are letting frustration cloud your judgement. It seems like no one else thinks that Celever is mafia, so who is better?

If we don't get 6 votes on a mafia today, we lose. End of story. It's time to nut up or shut up people.
 
vonFiedler said:
No, it's because I think he's lying. Why exactly are you so defensive of him? Just look at the sapstorm he just posted. If we feel all sawwy for him for another 24 hours, not hard when no one posts, then his team wins the game. You call it an "easy" lynch. But who is your hard target then? Celever? You need to distance yourself, as a guy who has been there, you are letting frustration cloud your judgement. It seems like no one else thinks that Celever is mafia, so who is better?

If we don't get 6 votes on a mafia today, we lose. End of story. It's time to nut up or shut up people.
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I was defensive of him for the same reason as I was defensive of pokeguy. As for his defense posted right before I posted, yeah that one feels pretty off to me too, mostly because it's full of unnecessary "sap".

As for the Celever point, so what if no one else thinks Celever is bad, they have yet to show me any reason why he isn't bad. You ate least called him stupid town admitting that he has stuff going against him at least(stuff you think is a town being stupid) while everyone else seems to hail him as one of the most likely town people. I keep finding problems with what Celever is doing but it seems like people got so fed up about it that now they ignore them completely. It's not like the way you are acting about spirequire is that different from what I did with Celever last day, big hard push to try and get him lynched because at least I think he is bad. People didn't like me monopolising the discussion back then so could you at least post opinions on others too?
 
More Cowbell said:
Spiresquire did make his large post. For someone who hasn't paid much attention to spiresquire before, Obbmud, you seem very eager to jump onto him. Besides, why would it be 'pulling the trigger' already? Look at PokeguyNXB, it's not like the whole game is going to jump on one person because of not posting a ''large post'' as promised (and once again, spiresquire did make his post). Strange case of sudden aggression right here.

Also starwarsfan, you better acknowledge me in your 2k or I'll lynch you
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Yeah, I screwed this up. My internet was derping out at the time, and the pages loaded a bit funky (as an example of this I was only saw swf's post after the vote, and vanFielder's post came up as an alert but nobody else's were up and my browser only saw 23 pages. When I posted it put mine under vanFielder's and I closed my internet). I apologize for any inconveniences that this may have caused.
spiresquire said:
Oh fine. I actually kept saying that it was BAD. I figured that maybe the maf would think that this wouild be running a shitty gambit putting up the "oh my role is garbage" up as a red herring, but it's actually true! I am the Wrong Place at the Wrong Time Townie. Here on page nine I made a very piss-poor attempt at softclaiming it.

It was my very first relevant post. One could argue that since I had a night to think about it, I could've easily faked it. That's fair enough. I honestly should've claimed it on my very first post, but that seemed to be too scummy in my eyes. "Oh I'll immediately claim a miller role, that certainly isn't suspicious at all". And, I was worried that if I didn't claim it, I would be mislynched on the grounds that I've been detected by a watcher report. Later on though, I realized that maybe I could help clear someone!

I realized that I am probably one of the only few who could easily tell the difference between a real Watcher report, and a fake one. A fake one wouldn't have me on it. A real one would actually incriminate me, but at least we'd have a shot at confirming a clear. Therefore, if anyone had tried to claim watcher, I could possibly discredit them. Of course, this is botched if they picked up on my claim, or had a Talent Scout on me for some strange reason, but it was a thought. I was almost certain that if there was a watcher today, they would've easily been able to deduce that the mayor would be killed. It would've been too obvious! But, the fact that no one's claimed makes me think there isn't a watcher. Therefore, I'm a named townie essentially. Only unlike the mason claim, I don't exactly have math to back me up. There's only one of these roles in the game, and it's already a scummy one from the get go.

Cxnlee, first, I'd like for you to try to really think about your "gut feelings." Those are what interest me the most.
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Wrong Place Wrong Time Townie is the kind of claim I would see from a mafia member, because it is the way past a watcher/tracker if you can convince them that you are wrong place wrong time townie. That being said, I feel like you are telling the truth, because your comments and logic clearly display some kind of logic that you might not have thought of if you were claiming on the spot, as well as the fact that you claimed before any watcher jumped you. I don't believe that there is a way to test this, because I don't think we have any watchers based on the distribution of roles in this game (only 75% chance of having one, and nobody has declared any kind of evidence). If we do have a watcher, and you saw spiresquire on your read when you read nitrox last night (who else would you have watcher?), this information would be very helpful.

If you are wondering why I am flip-flopping, I will answer your question now, because arguments of flip flopping have come up before (Right Tesung ?). I flip flop because it helps me judge both sides of the argument. This way I can show my thought process to you guys. I can produce a less tunneled argument if I can see both sides.
 
LightWolf said:
I was defensive of him for the same reason as I was defensive of pokeguy.
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Why were you defensive of Pokeguy? You played this same song and dance yesterday and it got you nowhere. Frankly it was painful to watch, but masterful if someone is just trying to stall to victory.

You ate least called him stupid town admitting that he has stuff going against him at least(stuff you think is a town being stupid)
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Thinking he's a stupid town is not the same thing as thinking he is scum. In fact, stupid town has quite a defined position in the metagame. You don't have to be mafia to fuck up a game, Celever is just a bad player who thinks too highly of himself. I almost broke the rules to post and laugh at him when he called other people "noobs".

It's not like the way you are acting about spirequire is that different from what I did with Celever last day
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It is in no way similar. I've got nothing personal against the guy, he has barely even acknowledged my existence really. You on the other hand are just in a pissing match. It's passed time to feel a little silly about it.

People didn't like me monopolising the discussion back then so could you at least post opinions on others too?
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Don't got opinions on others that I haven't already posted. I did only just sub in. Maybe I'll know more if we live to see another day, but if my current suspects aren't mafia then we probably won't live to see another day anyway.
 
I was defensive because it was a silly lynch, lynch the guy who is literally unable to defend himself is pretty much something a mafia would want to do. The reason for the lynch had nothing to do with whether he was mafia or not since inactivity is not a tell!

Also I'm not just targeting Celever because he is Celever, I see what he is doing, and I think it doesn't make any sense and it's scummy, like how he backed out of the pokeguy lynch claiming he was merely prodding him or how he goes against his own propaganda of how experienced people shouldn't be trusted just because they look like town by basically claiming just that for Ace. There is nothing personal about this on my side, I wasn't even frustrated at Celever, I was frustrated at the rest of the game! So yes from my point of view, you are doing exactly what I tried to do last day here, and I'm doing what everyone else did that day to me by telling you I think you are wrong.

Also just because you subbed in now you not having an opinion is silly, at least it's silly considering the way you put it, as it sounds like you are implying with all the posts in this thread till now you got nothing more than 2 suspects.

Also lets go back to your first argument: spiresquire has been using the shit we been giving pokeguy for his inactivity to lurk himself unnoticed and he is lying about being grounded. Now here is the thing, we could have lynched you for the exact same reasoning, shinyskarmory stated he was out of subs and couldn't sub out Pokeguy, and he was giving an excuse as to why he couldn't post(which was honestly worse than squire's), the only difference is he was given a lot of attention because of his excuse. So nearly everything you are arguing for against spire was also true for Pokeguy(naturally it was negated when he indeed got subbed basically confirming his excuse was true), yet you clearly are claiming to be clean, so most of your reasons have failed already in proving someone guilty, unless you are implying they were correct and you are scum?

Now about squire himself. I'm conflicted on his claim, for one he basically burried his time capsule after the death of both the Deputy and an Inspector, statistically lowering the chances of his tracking-miller claim being found out and by always doing the kills he'd never not show up on them. On the other hand it's a bad claim for the mafia, his setup was very unobvious, no one noticed or cared about it, he didn't really lock himself into a single fake and there are so many better fakes a mafia could use, especially after I made a case for doctor being the best fake claim, but he might have missed that discussion(he likely did catch at least some of the mason discussion though, considering his big post showed him clearly aware of it) or he simply thought using his pre laid proof was a better claim. He clearly put a lot of thought into how his role could be useful for the village though, something I'm unsure if mafia would bother with, but that's a WIFOM, if he was clever enough to set it up he could easy consider additional stuff to claim alongside it. Honestly the setting it up part is the one that bothers me, it's a role with the least risks to claim early and fear of being revealed as a lie. It just is coincidentally in the perfect position to be a fake, kinda too many coincidences for my taste. I do not question the hinting your role early thing itself though, I considered writing my role down directly by having it spelled out by the first letter of my sentences in a post, but I scratched the idea mostly because I always forgot to do it early and then late I didn't want to bother with it anymore. Either way squire's defense is honestly a far better reason to consider lynching him, but since he has always flown under the radar we don't have any other defenses of his to compare it to. Though I must say I do buy his selfcritical attitude as being real and not just a show based on bigginer.
 
What do I have to be frustrated by? I just subbed in. I made this bed. I was always prepared to sleep in it. I don't think ss couldn't defend himself, I think he wants us to think he couldn't defend himself, which is a very different reason to want someone lynched! Of course if you think his defense is a better reason to lynch him, you can be my guest.

Your attempt to peg me in the same hole as ss is clearly WIFOM. I already explained why in the same circumstance ss was more scummy, because he sat back and let Pokeguy take the heat. Even if said he'd post an hour before I was "officially" subbed in, I asked to be subbed in long before that and he had to know he couldn't hide much longer.
 
I think you misunderstood the frustrated thing, I just explained I wasn't even frustrated with Celever, to exemplify it's not personal.

As for the WIFOM, your whole argument is a WIFOM. You say he is doing EVERYTHING because he is mafia feigning inactivity, and Pokeguy is the proof that excuses can be actually correct, and honestly be in no relation to being mafia(though from purely statistical point of view, that makes him more likely to be mafia)
 
I'm not saying that excuses can't be correct, I'm saying that spirequire's excuse is not correct. Wine In Front Of Me is about possibilities. I'm giving you absolutes. SS didn't accidentally not notice that I was subbed in, not with a double post. There is no built up resistance to lynching here. The scumtell is clear as day.
 
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