So I made a team

Der Twist

Der Twist

I'm new to competitive. Like, really new. Like still got the umbilical cord standard new, so forgive me if this team is a pile of ass, I just wanted an opinion from people who actually know what they're doing. I gave it a go on Showdown recently, the few battles I had with it in-game were against people even newer than me with no idea what they were doing (with the exception of one who reflected the competitive atmosphere of Showdown far better). I peaked at 1348 after my first day trying them out, not great I know, but I'm not sugar coating it and I'm not sure how much my team needs improving in conjunction with my playstyle. And now, Lady Death and Friends:

Durian:
ferrothorn.gif

Ferrothorn (M) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpDef / 4 Def
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rocks
- Spikes
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip​
Your standard landmine Ferrothorn, designed to set up hazards, Leech Seed for residual damage and forcing switches and whatnot and Power Whip as the token attack. Rocky Helmet works well with Iron Barbs for more residual damage, he makes a good death fodder when he's sent out his hazards, sending him out to eat a Brave Bird or Sacred Sword to deal some last stand damage helps out making things easier to revenge kill. Primarily specially defensive since plenty physical attackers could be put off by the Iron Barbs/Rocky Helmet 'recoil', and to work in conjunction with Lorelei (next).
​
Lorelei:
milotic.gif

Milotic (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Marvel Scale
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4SpDef
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Recover
- Toxic​
My God, I love this thing! Lorelei the Milotic, almost a crutch for me, if she dies then hope fades drastically. She is bulky as anything, the physical bulk investment balances out and equals her naturally high special defence so she can pretty much take an attack from any side, similar to Durian but her good HP means she does a better job (plus learning recover never hurt). Her and Durian eat up eachother's weaknesses and they make a great team together, Dragonite's don't stand much of a chance when Stealth Rock kills their Multi Scales, Iron Barbs/Rocky Helmet knocks their health down and an Ice Beam (after living a +1/2 Dragon Claw from full health) takes them out; it sounds very situational but it's happened on a decent basis so far, Dragonite's just haven't been an issue for me. Oh, Toxic is the shit too, with Recover and her bulk she can Toxic stall decently, it's obviously not her speciality but she still does a damn good job with it. Milotics for everyone! Everyone should have one.

Furnace:
heatran.gif

Heatran (M) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpAtk / 4 SpDef
Modest Nature
- Fire Blast
- Flash Cannon
- Earth Power
- Ancient Power/Dark Pulse​
And we finally get to the offensive side of the team, let's start off with this weird-ass Heatran set. Well, it's not too weird per se, I'm running Modest over Timid because with Heatran's mediocre base speed I've not seen any reason to boost it when offence is his primary quality. I'm running max defence to balance out the Assault Vest so he's good and bulky but still offensive. How's he working out? Good and bad. Or great and awful to be more accurate. The Assault Vest has save my ass often but has also gotten it killed in cases when an Air Balloon would be very much appreciated, but I'm really not sure which I would take over which, they'd both do wonders. Similar with Dark Pulse and Ancient Power, both have done great with Furnace. Yes! Dark Pulse does something! It's great to use on Psychics that think they can scare you out with a Focus Blast threat because no one expects it, but Ancient Power is obvious, Talonflames and Charizards do not take kindly to it, and I've gotten the +all boost a good few times, it's like a mega star on Mario Kart! All in all, Furnace is the team misfit.

Dainself:
aegislash.gif
aegislash-blade.gif


Aegislash (M) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- King's Shield
- Swords Dance
-Shadow Sneak
- Sacred Sword​
Very standard Aegislash; four moves of doom physical, Adamant (I might switch to Brave, but Adamant hasn't been an issue so far). I thought running the Expert Belt was a good idea since it doesn't affect sustainability like Life Orb, but it boosts attack power (in some cases anyway), but I've never really had to use him against something he's super effective against, when he gets set up he wrecks everything so Leftovers should help more so he lives a little longer. Anyway, I don't need to explain much more about him, he's your every-day Aegislash with moves that patch in extra offensive coverage on my team, nothing more to say.

Painkiller:
garchomp.gif


Garchomp (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Earthquake
-Stone Edge
- Dragon Claw​
A very standard Scarfchomp, but my God is he good! The choice items take a little time to get used to with being locked into one move and all, but the Scarf helps a lot. EQ and Stone Edge hit harder than Furnace's Ancient Powers and Earth Powers as well as from the physical side so he's more about coverage against defences rather than typing. Outrage decimates opponents and sometimes when you're torn between an opponent switching or staying and don't know what to do, then you say 'fuck it' and Outrage thing. Unless there's a Fairy involved, then Dragon Claw is there to screw up less healthy opponents without being locked into it like Outrage for Fairies to kill me or set up on my face, I could run Brick Break instead but really the last move-slot is mainly filler that I have little justification for. Still, he saves my ass a lot.

Lady Death:
gardevoir.gif
gardevoir-mega.gif

(Mega) Gardevoir (F) @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace/Pixilate
EVs: 252 SpAtk / 252 Spd / 4 SpDef
Timid Nature
- Calm Mind
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Thunderbolt​
Here she is, the lady of the hour. Lady Death! Ok, to tell you the truth she's very similar to Heatran in that she either soars or sinks, the power of Calm Mind Gardevoir ain't nothing to fuck with, let's make that clear, the conditions to get that power? Well... Let's say it's pretty easy to block a set-up. She's got no bulk physically so that's no good, and she can't take a special hit till after she's mega evolved so unless I sack something off, it's hard to switch her out. Her lack of a healing move and her average speed mean she gets pretty much flattened by Poison (and Burn, but mainly Poison), and despite the new Fairy typing, Garchomp is still a massive threat, no use Hyper Voicing when EQ takes you out. ...Wow, I'm not justifying my use of her very well am I? Ok, I stuck her here mainly for coverage, I started running Thunderbolt after trying Will-O-Wisp and finding the coverage helped way more than taking two hits to die instead of one. The window of opportunity is narrow, but if you find it then she does your work for you, Hyper Voice is already horrifying, so why not boost the horror? Psyshock hits physically so your wacky special defence doesn't mean crap, and Thunderbolt because fuck your Skarmory! She's hard to work with at times but she's well worth it.

Noted threats: Mega Pinsir: the reason I'm torn between Air Balloon on Furnace, EQ and Quick Attack wreck my team and all I can rely on in Stone Edge, and... Need I say more?
Excadrill: Same reason as Pinsir, near enough. EQ fucks me up and Air Balloon keeps Painkiller from EQing back.
Thundurus: Annoying as fuck! Sometimes they're fine, sometimes not, but they're so damn unpredictable! They're like a magic hat, they have a trick for everyone on my team.
Hazards: I have nothing that takes them badly, but frequent switching builds up after a while. More of a nuisance than a weakness but notable anyway.


So that's my team, my rating's shit, help me out?
 
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Well. this is an alright first team but onto the rate:
I suggest Scarfchomp over the band because it's infinitely more useful in this era and i notice it's your wallbreaker but you're not gonna be breaking any ferros or skarms with that,
so put Fire Blast on the last slot so skarm and ferro don't ruin your day.
For Heatran, Ancient Power over Dark Pulse and an air balloon over assault vest as you don;t have much that'll take boosted eqs for your heatran regardless.
Now. Gardevoir seems like the real wallbreaker here with a blistering base 165 and access to Psyshock you will be denting things on both sides of the defensive spectrum.
I suggest you go all out and put thunderbolt over will-o-wisp and if you're worried about the hyper voice i'll gladly give you a shiny one with it free of charge.
:) just hit me up okay?
also Why not replace ferro for something that doesn't get nearly OHKO'd with a +2 Earthquake from sand rush Excadrill(This is becoming a threat due to user pokeaim showing it off) like landorus it'll get up rocks and also seems like it'll provide a wonderful offensive core when paired with heatran as they take each others weaknesses barring water(*cough* Azumarill *cough* but it's checked by milotic so don't fret)
well other than that cool team decent synergy but these changes should improve on that also this is the recommended Lando set.

Swirly (Landorus-Therian) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 196 HP / 96 Atk / 216 Def
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Stealth Rock
- U-turn
Well bye :)
~Meloettaa
 
Well Ferro's not really meant to take EQs, I have Garchomp and Milotic for that, especially Milotic, Ferrothorn is really just meant to wall special attackers and is overall sort-of disposable after he gets hazards up. I think Garchomp and Heatran work as well as an Excadrill Heatran core for the same reasons as you mentioned with countering eachother's weaknesses, but I may give Excadrill a go, I've never been fond of it but I've heard too much praise not to try him out. Also, about that Fire Blast Garchomp, I take it running Jolly won't work out well and I should switch to Naive? Or is it best to keep that bulk and sacrifice a little special offensive prowess? And what EV spread would you recommend for a Mixed Scarfchomp?
As for that Gardevoire you offered, I might just take you up on that. Thanks a lot, man! Can you nickname it?
 
Ok, so this thread was lock before, but recently I've been going to battles every Sunday, atoned for my bad IVs and accepted Arceus as my lord and saviour. I tried my team out is what I'm saying. I made some revisions and updated my explanations with more experienced detail rather than hypothetical theory so previous posts are less relevantish. Ok, try No2, help me out, guys? :)
 
I have nothing against using Milotic but there are at least two Pokemon that can replace her on your team and do her job better: Suicune and abominable Slowbro. Both are bulkier defensively and work with the same EV distribution and attacks. Suicune can do Chestorest for recovery or Sleeptalk, and Slowbro the retard uses Slack Off and Regenerator to retain health easily.
 
Hey Twist, this is a pretty solid idea for your team. It looks like your main core is the standard Fire/Water/Grass setup, with the general strategy to absorb hits using your core, forcing switches and then mopping up with Mega-Gardevoir/ScarfChomp.

First, in regards to your defensive core. Ferrothorn is an interesting choice that gives you coverage mainly against DD Gyarados Outrage, and Kyurem-B without HP Fire. I'm honestly not certain about Spikes on this setup. Sure, your team is more or less balanced in playstyle but the effort it takes to get Spikes and SR up (especially when SR can knock so much more off Charizard (both forms) and Talonflame) isn't really worth it, especially given the inherent weakness of stall in this generation (and really, since Gen. 4). I'd suggest getting rid of Spikes in favor of Thunder Wave, because there's nothing better than catching Talonflame, Charizard, Dragonite, or Salamence with a T-Wave on the switch. Aside from that, it's pretty solid.

Milotic, unfortunately, is setup fodder for Ferrothorn, Rotom-W, Breloom, and even Scizor/DDNite provided that rocks haven't been put up/have been Defogged away. Without SR, D-Nite is only 3HKO'd by Ice Beam, leaving it time to set up DD and 2HKO you provided SR and Lefties. Sure, you might take out the D-Nite but losing your water core can be crucial in a battle. Moreover, Talonflame will still 2HKO you with Brave Bird assuming SR. I would suggest replacing Milotic with the following Rotom-W set:

Rotom-W @ Leftovers | Levitate
Bold, 176 Def 252 HP 64 SAtk 4 Spd
Hydro Pump | Volt Switch/Thunderbolt | Will-O-Wisp | Pain Split

With this set, Rotom-W is at best 4HKO'd by Talonflame's Brave Bird, and can switch into DDNite as it sets up, both break Multiscale and cripple it with Will-O-Wisp, then Pain Split off the damage. Furthermore, it's also immune to EQ, allowing it to come in on a predicted EQ and Will-O-Wisp Chomp before it can 2HKO in return. But if you know Outrage is coming, you could always switch out into Ferro to take the hit. Or I suppose you could always run standard Azumarill, but that struggles with Talonflame badly, even with Aqua Jet.

Now, Heatran. I can understand what you're going for here but take Assault Vest off. Unless Heatran's being passed Wish it needs Lefties recovery badly. Moreover, LO Greninja's Surf still does 53.1 - 63.2%, a clean 2HKO without SR so you won't be switching in. Additionally, I'm a little confused about the use of maxed out Defense EV's. Certainly, you're improving his bulk but he doesn't have the typing to really take advantage of physical bulk. Tyranitar can carry Superpower, Salamence and Dragonite have Earthquake and so does Mega-Pinsir. And Heatran becomes outsped by all these Pokemon by investing so heavily in Defense. If you want to be stally, go for a set revolving around Substitute, and replace your Defense EV's with Special Defense. This way, you act as a better check for Charizard-Y, and Heatran can't survive SE physical moves effectively anyways.

Aegislash. This is a good fit, giving you some much needed priority and an option for Fairies like Sylveon in Shield forme. Do watch for SD Garchomp, because that set walks over you with proper setup (Sacred Sword is a 3HKO) and EQ isn't affected by King's Shield. Actually, SD Chomp walks over the whole team if Ferro is out. Iron Head gives you much more reliable STAB (put it over SD) and lets you check fairies.

ScarfChomp. Nothing to say here, it provides revenge killing with decent power against neutral Pokemon and the notorious 102 speed bracket. Can't switch into Thundurus, but then what can?

Mega-Gardevoir. This is the epitome of a glass cannon. Getting around Scizor is key, as Bullet Punch OHKO's even without CB. Worse yet, Gardevoir is neutral to Pursuit, losing about half its health on the forced switch. Still definitely a good sweeper, but without coverage, it can come in for free whenever it pleases and play BP/Pursuit against you. Hyper Voice still takes out most Waters, so why not use HP Fire? It still 2HKO's Skarm without boosts, and stops Scizor from having its way.

That's about all I can think of. Good luck!
 
I chose Milotic over Slowbro because with the Marvel Scale she makes the perfect status foder, it feels somewhat reassuring knowing you have something to make use of a predicted Will-O-Wisp, but then again Heatran isn't affected by Toxic or Will-O-Wisp either so maybe that was counter intuitive.
I like the idea of Rotom-W, it was never my favourite Pokemon so I had not interest in it, but it's so regrettably useful in so many situations that I'll have to give it a go eventually. Maybe I'll play around between Slowbro and Rotom-W and see which works best.

Also, thanks for the idea for Thunder Wave on Ferrothorn, Spikes was never really a necessity but more just something I thought I'd add so I could set up more hazards if the opportunity ever arose, I don't know why I chose that over Thunder Wave. Thanks for snapping me out of that. XD

Yeah, the Heatran set was always questionable and I have been finding that the physical bulk hasn't been helping much at all, I just thought I was being clever by making him bulky all-around while still being offensive. XD Would you advise I keep him offensive or run a Calm set with Sub-Toxic and two attacks?

I don't know, Swords Dance is kind of importantish, I'd sooner run Iron Head on Garchomp in place of Dragon Claw, but then Dragon Claw is also pretty helpful if I'm running Rotom and I'm out of an Ice Beam. I never thought Aegislash would ever have a case of four-moves-slot-syndrome... I guess I could try Iron Head though. What Item would you recommend? Should I keep the Expert Belt if I'm not running SD or should I switch to Lefties or Air Balloon?

Thunderbolt was for Water types too, the only offensive coverage I had against them was Ferrothorn... Not ideal. If I'm using Rotom-W then he'll have that Water coverage handled and HP Fire would not be an issue.

Thanks for your help, guys. :toast:
 
Der Twist said:
Well Ferro's not really meant to take EQs, I have Garchomp and Milotic for that, especially Milotic, Ferrothorn is really just meant to wall special attackers and is overall sort-of disposable after he gets hazards up. I think Garchomp and Heatran work as well as an Excadrill Heatran core for the same reasons as you mentioned with countering eachother's weaknesses, but I may give Excadrill a go, I've never been fond of it but I've heard too much praise not to try him out. Also, about that Fire Blast Garchomp, I take it running Jolly won't work out well and I should switch to Naive? Or is it best to keep that bulk and sacrifice a little special offensive prowess? And what EV spread would you recommend for a Mixed Scarfchomp?
As for that Gardevoire you offered, I might just take you up on that. Thanks a lot, man! Can you nickname it?
Click to expand...
I suggested landorus over ferrothorn lol not excadrill
 
Alright! So my rating just took a pretty little nose dive! Turns out everything with EQ can destroy my team save for Rotom-W, but let's see him take on a whole team alone. Fucking Earthquakes... Even a Latias had Earthquake. XD
 
Did you give Slowbro a go? He likes to take naps between Earthquakes. I have so much trouble taking out Slowbros, but I tend to kill Wash with Earthquakes myself.
 
Yup. Helped out a lot, better than Lorelei thanks to Regenerator but all in all I'm still having problems. I'm just getting spammed with hyper-offensive opponents that gun me down like it's not even funny. I had my first 6-0 loss today, really not fun looking at it from the other side. XD
Seriously, when will tutoring be open again? There is no way my team is THAT bad, I'm pretty sure it's me playing like absolute ass too.
 
Der Twist said:
Yeah, the Heatran set was always questionable and I have been finding that the physical bulk hasn't been helping much at all, I just thought I was being clever by making him bulky all-around while still being offensive. XD Would you advise I keep him offensive or run a Calm set with Sub-Toxic and two attacks?
Click to expand...

EDIT: To OHKO Dragonite, SR needs to be up and Multiscale broken.

Given that two-thirds of your core is already defensive and somewhat able to tank special attackers, I'd suggest a more offensive build. Without some power somewhere in your lineup, you run the risk of becoming setup bait and especially in this meta, you can't afford to rely on residual damage to take down opposing sweepers. Timid Heatran with enough speed EV to outrun Adamant Dragonite (IIRC 200, and this also lets you outrun Jolly Breloom) is able to OHKO Dragonite most of the time with Life Orb and Dragon Pulse. Yes, HP Ice works too but the abundance of Lati@s makes it a moot factor when it's at best 120 BP.

And as far as Aegislash, it does have a bit of four move-slot syndrome. You need King's Shield, Sneak is a must and Sacred Sword is crucial for opposing steels. Swords Dance is definitely useful for it, but I still think that Iron Head is a must for coverage and good STAB. Even with those offenses and SD, a 40 BP move as your only STAB doesn't achieve that many 2HKO's unless we're talking Gengar. But if you can eliminate the main threats to your team (opposing walls) and are only dealing with sweepers, I suppose it might not be an issue. Leftovers still helps quite a bit with survivability.
 
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