Almost Any Ability XY (Suspect Over: Weavile banned, Keldeo Stays)

[ryan]

I've run into a few well built stall teams on the ladder. Unaware and Magic Bounce are both super annoying because you never know which Pokemon is going to carry them, and Unaware in particular is not quite prevalent enough to warrant using Mold Breaker sweepers. Having said that, a well built stall team doesn't care much at all about Weavile, and Dragonite is relatively easy to check with them. Both of them are Pokemon that are incredible against offensively oriented teams but just don't have quite enough brute force to muscle through more defensively oriented teams.

So I guess to answer your question, playing stall is a reason not to use either or both of Dragonite and Weavile. In fact, if the metagame had enough time to fully develop with its ladder, there could come a time when offense becomes less popular, and neither of them would be nearly as good under those circumstances.

 

[DinaIsha]

FLASH FIRE SKARM NEW BEST DRAGONITE COUNTER 2014
ohwait thunderpunch

thunderpunchbolt. Iron Barbs Rocky Helmet Skarmory is even better. Set Rocks up front. Switch into a predicted ESpeed. Roost off the damage from the next ESpeed. Wait for ensuing ragequit.

Proof: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/almostanyability-121961127 (No Dragonite for you).

While we're talking about weavile, the way I deal with it is to switch in Refregirate Lucario and set up sub.

 

[Nido-Rus]

I don't know much about this, but wouldn't an aerilate/gale wings braviary be somewhat viable? Although it has much lower speed, it generally has higher bulk than staraptor, and getting around its ice weakness (refrigerate mons) shouldn't be all that hard. I don't know just how practical it may be, so I'd really like any advice about whether to use it or not.

 

[EV]

I don't know much about this, but wouldn't an aerilate/gale wings braviary be somewhat viable? Although it has much lower speed, it generally has higher bulk than staraptor, and getting around its ice weakness (refrigerate mons) shouldn't be all that hard. I don't know just how practical it may be, so I'd really like any advice about whether to use it or not.

I've seen Gale Wings Braviary. It has a nice HP stat (100) to absorb recoil and passable defenses (75 each). I think it ran Brave Bird, Superpower, Bulk Up, and Roost. Maybe U-turn in there somewhere. It's bulkier and a little stronger than Staraptor like you said and has lower Speed. Both their coverage moves have their own trade-offs: one lowers Attack/Defense and the other lowers both Defenses. But I don't think Staraptor can setup.

 

[canno]

I don't know much about this, but wouldn't an aerilate/gale wings braviary be somewhat viable? Although it has much lower speed, it generally has higher bulk than staraptor, and getting around its ice weakness (refrigerate mons) shouldn't be all that hard. I don't know just how practical it may be, so I'd really like any advice about whether to use it or not.

I've been using Gale Wings Braviary, and I think its really cool. I've been using Roost / BB / Defog / Superpower. Priority Defog is pretty neat, and priority BB is really strong coming off of Braviary. It can also Bulk Up, which is another thing it has over Star. Still, Star's speed is nice, but I prefer Braviary.

 

[OLD GREGG (im back baby)]

After

Waterfall says hi.
252+ Atk Life Orb Dragonite Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Rhydon: 218-260 (52.6 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO.



Hollywood's point i think was that Aerilate Dragonite outclasses pretty much every physical flying attacker and that running pokemon like talon just for the sake of variety doesn't make sense.
Some calcs -

252+ Atk Choice Band Aerilate Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Noivern: 345-406 (110.9 - 130.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Noivern: 246-290 (79 - 93.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Aerilate Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 181-214 (40.7 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 130-153 (29.2 - 34.4%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Aerilate Dragonite Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 169-201 (48 - 57.1%) -- 90.6% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 121-144 (34.3 - 40.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Talon misses out on a lot of OHKO's and 2HKO's and his move pool sucks consisting of exactly two moves FB and BB whereas D-Nite has a solid move pool with EQ,Waterfall,Fire Punch etc to deal with his counters.

With max Evs and running a neutral attack nature Talonflame hits 522 attack after one Swords Dance. Combine that with a Speed positive nature and you have 386 speed. Life Orb turns the dual Stabs into 156 BP coming off of a 522 attack stat...and you think this thing cannot OHKO......LOL

 

[cbrevan]

Aggron @ Aggronite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail
- Fire Punch

This Aggron set just about counters Dragonite and Weavile. It walls both of their priority, and it completely walls Weavile lacking Low Kick. It can even switch in on Dragonite packing Earthquake and wreck it with Dragon Tail. The bulk this thing has is insane; if your physical attacker can't hit it super effectively, its not killing it. This set goes great with any reliable hazard setter, easily weakening teams for your own Dragonite or Weavile sweep.

EDIT: Weavile and Dragonite wreck all the Gale Wing users, especially with SR up.

 

[EV]

Aggron @ Aggronite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
- Dragon Tail
- Fire Punch

This Aggron set just about counters Dragonite and Weavile. It walls both of their priority, and it completely walls Weavile lacking Low Kick. It can even switch in on Dragonite packing Earthquake and wreck it with Dragon Tail. The bulk this thing has is insane; if your physical attacker can't hit it super effectively, its not killing it. This set goes great with any reliable hazard setter, easily weakening teams for your own Dragonite or Weavile sweep.

EDIT: Weavile and Dragonite wreck all the Gale Wing users, especially with SR up.

I had a more utility check with Levitate Registeel, but this has an offensive presence tho it trades that for terrible Special Defense.

 

[Throbulator36]

Auto-losing to Weavile perhaps?
But now the question is: "Any reason for not using Dragonite and Weavile"?
They pretty much define the metagame right now.

The better question is: "any reason not to run an ate ability?"
Dragonite isn't broken without aerilate though still viable. Weavile can be better without refrigerate but needs it to KO Dragonite. Other E-Speeders use it mainly to take out Dragonite. I think we should just ban these abilities as they're over-centralizing and even broken in some cases. If we do this we can even unban Kyurem-B.

 

[toxicroaker]

The better question is: "any reason not to run an ate ability?"
Dragonite isn't broken without aerilate though still viable. Weavile can be better without refrigerate but needs it to KO Dragonite. Other E-Speeders use it mainly to take out Dragonite. I think we should just ban these abilities as they're over-centralizing and even broken in some cases. If we do this we can even unban Kyurem-B.

Yes. I quit playing this meta in general because of these abilities. It is hard to come up with a creative team that is still semi-viable without having a pokemon with this ability, or specifically designed to counter weavile and dragonite. I say we ban them or at least have a vote.

 

[EV]

To bad Mold Breaker doesn't ignore incoming abilities, too. Maybe we all ought to run Flame Body/Static?? Just putting some ideas out there... however crude...

 

[HumbleSpaceMan]

After

With max Evs and running a neutral attack nature Talonflame hits 522 attack after one Swords Dance. Combine that with a Speed positive nature and you have 386 speed. Life Orb turns the dual Stabs into 156 BP coming off of a 522 attack stat...and you think this thing cannot OHKO......LOL

If Talon was a Pokemon which could setup easily you argument might hold.But since it's pathetic defences coupled with bad defensive typing doesn't allow it to,saying that once it setups it can sweep is a bad argument.Not to mention that hitting 522 after +2 is pretty pathetic especially since Adamant D-Nite hits 602 attack after 1 Dragon Dance and out speeds Talon hitting 388 speed after a DD.So basically after a SD Talon hits 522 attack and 386 speed while after a DD D-Nite hits 602 attack and 388 speed. D-Nite is also attacking with a +2 priority move which hits 156BP after STAB and has plenty of coverage options while as i said Talon's movepool is shit.

 

[cbrevan]

The problem I find with Talonflame, and every other user of Gale Wings, is that their hopelessly outclassed by almost every Extreme Speed user and Weavile in the tier. Dragonite is a better sweeper, Weavile is a better revenge killer, and Entei is a better check to other priority users. It really doesn't help that they're also countered by a lot of the Extreme Speed users and completely wrecked by Weavile. The only things that Talonflame really has to differentiate it from other Gale Wings users are its speed and ability to set up, and maybe a fast WoW.

 

[mallpal]

it probably sounds ridiculous, but I've had success with gale wings skarmory. it can set up with curse, not caring about the speed drop because muh priority. it makes great use of both the defensive and offensive debuffs, and sets up easily against pretty much any physical attacker, not something other gw users can claim. it can quite easily sweep or at least punch holes against most offensive teams.

 

[OLD GREGG (im back baby)]

A lot of things out there to set up onn. 2HKO defensive Cresselia, after one dance.

If Talon was a Pokemon which could setup easily you argument might hold.But since it's pathetic defences coupled with bad defensive typing doesn't allow it to,saying that once it setups it can sweep is a bad argument.Not to mention that hitting 522 after +2 is pretty pathetic especially since Adamant D-Nite hits 602 attack after 1 Dragon Dance and out speeds Talon hitting 388 speed after a DD.So basically after a SD Talon hits 522 attack and 386 speed while after a DD D-Nite hits 602 attack and 388 speed. D-Nite is also attacking with a +2 priority move which hits 156BP after STAB and has plenty of coverage options while as i said Talon's movepool is shit.

 

[EV]

A lot of things out there to set up onn. 2HKO defensive Cresselia, after one dance.

Sure, but I think what they mean is other Pokemon can do it better. Tflame may be able to setup a SD on some things, but Dragonite for example can too with DD and reaches higher Speed and Attack plus has better bulk.

 

[OLD GREGG (im back baby)]

Sure, but I think what they mean is other Pokemon can do it better. Tflame may be able to setup a SD on some things, but Dragonite for example can too with DD and reaches higher Speed and Attack plus has better bulk.

I understand that Dragonite is an over all better choice, I hope everyone is aware how good aerilate Dnite is by now. I'm just trying to find niches for the pokemon that are being over shadowed by the popular choices.

 

[OLD GREGG (im back baby)]

By now everyone should have an appreciation for the new 6th gen abilities, but what about Sniper Absol? What about Cursed Body Milotic? Are we to forget how many options we have in favor of Weavile and Dnite?

 

[Rotosect]

I have noticed that defensive types don't matter in this metagame as much as they do in standard ones, meaning raw stats and movepools usually make the difference between being outclased or not.
For example, Poison Heal Regirock and Regice are a real pain in the ass to deal with, despite their bad defensive types, since it fixes their worst weakness (lack of reliable recovery) and allows them to truly shine in AAA.

Basically any pokemon with stats in the right places and a movepool that complements them can use whatever ability suits it best and become a threat. It also helps that Team Preview won't outright reveal what you're running, unless it's an extremely popular choice like Aerilate Dragonite or Refrigerate Weavile.

Overall I'm very pleased by this metagame. Probably the most fun I have seen in months.

 

[OLD GREGG (im back baby)]

Prankster carbink with skill swap shuts Dnite down hard

 

[BeatMeUp]

I'm currently first on the ladder and I refuse to use Dragonite / Weavile / Noivern. However... I've had major success with Illusion TTar and Protean Zygarde

Tyranitar @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Illusion
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Adamant Nature
-Dragon Dance
-Crunch
-Stone Edge
-Earthquake

Easy to nab a Dragon Dance or even two. Resists DNite's Extremespeed. Neutral to Weavile's ice moves.

Zygarde @ Leftovers
Ability : Protean
EVs: 120 HP, 252 Atk, 136 Spe
Adamant Nature
-Coil
-Extremespeed
-Stone Edge
-Earthquake

Protean erases 4x weakness to ice and fear of Weavile. Coil will prevent toxics. Extremespeed if you need to change typing. Stone Edge won't miss with a Coil boost & rock typing is extremely useful. Prone to Unaware Mons though. EVs are to outspeed 252 SPE Adamant Nature DNite's w/ Extremespeed.

 

[eriados]

I'm currently first on the ladder and I refuse to use Dragonite / Weavile / Noivern. However... I've had major success with Illusion TTar and Protean Zygarde

Tyranitar @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Illusion
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Adamant Nature
-Dragon Dance
-Crunch
-Stone Edge
-Earthquake

Easy to nab a Dragon Dance or even two. Resists DNite's Extremespeed. Neutral to Weavile's ice moves.

Zygarde @ Leftovers
Ability : Protean
EVs: 120 HP, 252 Atk, 136 Spe
Adamant Nature
-Coil
-Extremespeed
-Stone Edge
-Earthquake

Protean erases 4x weakness to ice and fear of Weavile. Coil will prevent toxics. Extremespeed if you need to change typing. Stone Edge won't miss with a Coil boost & rock typing is extremely useful. Prone to Unaware Mons though. EVs are to outspeed 252 SPE Adamant Nature DNite's w/ Extremespeed.

That Zygarde set is cool, it gave my stall a lot of issues since +1 SE does a lot to Skarm. I ended up having to burn it every time. More people should definitely use it.

 

[OLD GREGG (im back baby)]

I'm currently first on the ladder and I refuse to use Dragonite / Weavile / Noivern. However... I've had major success with Illusion TTar and Protean Zygarde

Tyranitar @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Illusion
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Adamant Nature
-Dragon Dance
-Crunch
-Stone Edge
-Earthquake

Easy to nab a Dragon Dance or even two. Resists DNite's Extremespeed. Neutral to Weavile's ice moves.

Zygarde @ Leftovers
Ability : Protean
EVs: 120 HP, 252 Atk, 136 Spe
Adamant Nature
-Coil
-Extremespeed
-Stone Edge
-Earthquake

Protean erases 4x weakness to ice and fear of Weavile. Coil will prevent toxics. Extremespeed if you need to change typing. Stone Edge won't miss with a Coil boost & rock typing is extremely useful. Prone to Unaware Mons though. EVs are to outspeed 252 SPE Adamant Nature DNite's w/ Extremespeed.

I ran into this Zygarde and it destroyed my team.

 

[Throbulator36]

OiawesomeDG, you really should consider banning the ate abilities if you haven't already.

 

[OLD GREGG (im back baby)]

IM OL GREGG


http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/almostanyability-123046280