Double Dragon(ite)

qwerty777

After reading Surgo's "Chain Chomp" article, I thought that dragonite might be able to use a similar set. People say that garchomp and salamence can do everything better than dragonite--but I think that this idea can work equally as well on him. I call it...

Double Dragon: (because of it's two dragon moves)

Dragonite.gif


Dragonite @ Life Orb
74 Attack / 252 Special Attack / 184 Speed
Lonely / Naughty Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast

Strategy:
Like Chain Chomp, you send dragonite into something that it scares off. Now, you DD on the switch and you'll be able to outrun anything with 115 base speed, max EVed in speed, and a +speed nature. Example: Max speed timid azelf has 361 speed. Dragonite with 242 speed w/ Dragon Dance: 242 x 1.5 = 363 speed.

Now, you cripple the physical wall that comes in with draco meteor. Since Dragonite's Sp. Atk is higher than Garchomp's, you know you'll 2HKO it with Stealth Rock in play.

After the physical wall is gone, you'll have a 690.3 attack stat (354 x 1.5 x 1.3) with a move that has 180 base power (120 x 1.5).

Since steels are the only thing that resists the two moves, fire blast is added in the moveset.

Advantages:

Advantages of Double Dragon over Chain Chomp:
- Higher attack BEFORE a Swords Dance
- Higher speed AFTER a Dragon Dance
- Higher Special Attack
- Higher Special Defense
- A stronger attack move (Outrage)

Advantages of Chain Chomp over Double Dragon:
- Higher attack AFTER a Swords Dance
- Higher speed BEFORE a Dragon Dance
- Higher HP
- You don't get confused after using your attack move (Earthquake)

Conclusion:
While both Double Dragon and Chain Chomp have their advantages and disadvantages, they both can destroy a team if used correctly.
 
Don't forget that Earthquake has immunities where Outrage doesn't.

Theoretically you could use Dragon Claw on Chain Chomp, but it wouldn't help you with non-Skarmory/Bronzong Steels. Once you Draco you have to get out, because everything immune to Ground laughs at you at that point.

One more thing. That set might be able to use Dragon Plate/Fang over Life Orb. It doesn't boost Dragon as much as LO, but it also doesn't sap your HP.
 
Set names suck unless they are an ironic name.

Fairly obvious set, NO damage calculations...
 
The Dragon-boosting items are probably a good idea on this set as Deck Knight stated. That's only and only if Fire Blast will still 2HKO Skarmory though. That along with 3HKOing (?) Bronzong. Something else to note is that Dragonite takes Ice Beams slightly better then Garchomp does.
 
Even after Dragon Dance you won't be OHKing as much as you want with Outrage. Especially with 0 Atk EVs.
Edit: Actually Dragonite takes Ice Beams worse than Garchomp.
 
Firestorm said:
Even after Dragon Dance you won't be OHKing as much as you want with Outrage. Especially with 0 Atk EVs.
Edit: Actually Dragonite takes Ice Beams worse than Garchomp.
Click to expand...

Dragonite has 91 Base HP and 100 Base Special Defence.
Garchomp has 108 base HP and 85 Base Special Defence.
Both are x4 weak to Ice.

I was always under the impression that your actual defense stat mattered more then your HP when taking a certain type of attack. In this case, a special attack.

In that case the 17 difference is base HP doesn't matter as much as a 15 difference in Special Defence.

Unless I'm missing something here?
 
Surgo said:
Set names suck unless they are an ironic name.

Fairly obvious set, NO damage calculations...
Click to expand...

Sorry about that...since garchomp 2HKO's most physical walls, you can assume that dragonite will do the same--or even more, since it has 50 more Sp. Atk. So I didn't think damage calculations were necessary.
 
I agree with Surgo. It's a little inventive, but these gimmicks/original sets you should keep to yourself, unless it's some game-breaking combo you've discovered no one else has.

EDIT: Also, Dragonite special sets are completely viable. I know the point is to DD first, but with some predictability lost, i dont see the surprise factor that well, just being a tiny chainchomp.

However, i do think it's cool that people are still giving more thought to sets than what's given to them in analyses.
 
Familiar Trainer said:
Dragonite has 91 Base HP and 100 Base Special Defence.
Garchomp has 108 base HP and 85 Base Special Defence.
Both are x4 weak to Ice.

I was always under the impression that your actual defense stat mattered more then your HP when taking a certain type of attack. In this case, a special attack.

In that case the 17 difference is base HP doesn't matter as much as a 15 difference in Special Defence.

Unless I'm missing something here?
Click to expand...

*Cries* I made the defense tiers for a reason ya know.

(name, 0/0 Def, 0/0 Sp. Def, 255/255 Def, 255/255 Sp. Def)
Dragonite : 117.49 117.95 122.91 123.27
Garchomp : 118.54 117.57 123.80 123.04

Garchomp has higher physical defenses, and lower special defenses. However, it is only a .38 tier difference. So the Chomp is going to only take ~3% to ~4% more damage than whatever D-Nite takes. (as in, if Dragonite takes 50% damage, then Garchomp will take 51.5% to 52% damage assuming the same random number was chosen in the damage formula)

Garchomp's Physical Defense is ~1.1 tiers higher, so it will take 10% less damage than D-Nite.

Edit: Actually Dragonite takes Ice Beams worse than Garchomp.
Click to expand...

Incorrect. Both are 4x weak to Ice, and Dragonite has a higher Sp. Def tier than Garchomp. Not much higher, but it is higher.
 
qwerty777 said:
Dragonite has 56 Atk EV's.
Click to expand...
Meh, mine has 200 and it has trouble with most walls. Damage calculations would help.

Familiar Trainer said:
Dragonite has 91 Base HP and 100 Base Special Defence.
Garchomp has 108 base HP and 85 Base Special Defence.
Both are x4 weak to Ice.

I was always under the impression that your actual defense stat mattered more then your HP when taking a certain type of attack. In this case, a special attack.

In that case the 17 difference is base HP doesn't matter as much as a 15 difference in Special Defence.

Unless I'm missing something here?
Click to expand...

Oops, you're right. I got confused with something else. Sorry about that.
 
Dragontamer said:
*Cries* I made the defense tiers for a reason ya know.

(name, 0/0 Def, 0/0 Sp. Def, 255/255 Def, 255/255 Sp. Def)
Dragonite : 117.49 117.95 122.91 123.27
Garchomp : 118.54 117.57 123.80 123.04

Garchomp has higher physical defenses, and lower special defenses. However, it is only a .38 tier difference. So the Chomp is going to only take ~3% to ~4% more damage than whatever D-Nite takes. (as in, if Dragonite takes 50% damage, then Garchomp will take 51.5% to 52% damage assuming the same random number was chosen in the damage formula)

Garchomp's Physical Defense is ~1.1 tiers higher, so it will take 10% less damage than D-Nite.
Click to expand...

One of these days I'm going to actually have to buckle down and try to understand how to use your defense tiers, for the sheer fact that they are so useful when it comes to things like this x)

Draco Meteor/Fire Blast should be enough to eliminate physical walls. Dragonite's Draco Meteor is more powerful then Garchomp's so most of that stuff you need Stealth Rock for you won't need with Dragonite. If only Dragonite could learn Swords Dance..
 
I was actually wondering if I should write up a guide to the defense tiers and submit it to Smogon...

The extra stuff is kinda "black art knowledge". Knowing exactly how much extra damage is dealt is not really written anywhere, its just kinda in the math I used to calculate the whole thing. All in all, if you are within a tier difference (like Dragonite and Garchomp are only .38 apart) then you are very very close indeed. Tiers are rather close, and are in fact closer than the random number damage. So if two pokemon are hit who are exactly 1 tier apart, on the average the higher tier will take less damage, but there is a chance you'd actually do the same damage. Like, with Garchomp and Dragonte, due to the randomness of damage, Dragonite may take more damage than garchomp if you test it in the game. Thats how close they are in Sp. Def. (just trying to help you visualize .38 tiers difference :-) )

But yeah, Dragonite is a bit more defensive in Sp. Def. Garchomp has more Def.
 
No offense, but this doesn't really... work. Dragonite is generally accepted as being able to pull off a mixed attack set- my Dragonite does, for one- and even if you pull off a Dragon Dance your opponent knows that it can still pull off a Draco Meteor and do some considerable damage. The reason Garchomp made this kind of thing work is that with only 80 base Sp. Attack, Garchomp isn't expected to do any sort of Special Attacks at all... Dragonite and Salamence can still be mixed bags.

Overall I say it's already been done, this will surprise absolutely no one.
 
Surgo said:
Set names suck unless they are an ironic name.

Fairly obvious set, NO damage calculations...
Click to expand...


i agree that it's an obvious set, and this is nothing new, however it's pretty pompous of you to say "set names suck unless they are an ironic name." personally i think double dragon is just as good of a name as "chain chomp," which really isn't even that clever or "ironic."
 
beez said:
i agree that it's an obvious set, and this is nothing new, however it's pretty pompous of you to say "set names suck unless they are an ironic name." personally i think double dragon is just as good of a name as "chain chomp," which really isn't even that clever or "ironic."
Click to expand...
You obviously didn't grow up on Mario games then. :p

The problem with this set has already been mentioned - people expect dragonite to have at least one special move, and even if they don't they aren't usually going to risk sending something out with terrible special defense and good physical.
 
nah of course i get the mario reference, i just don't think it's awesome enough to tell people that the nicknames they come up with "suck unless they are ironic."
 
Slightly off-topic but, how about instead of ChainChomp we call it Gar-"who uses special attacks to destroy the physical walls that your opponent sends out to counter Garchomp, but little do they know that it's a mixed sweeper and is going to take out their physical wall with Draco Meteor"-chomp?

Yeah, that name is definitely more ironic. :)
 
I too fail to see the irony of the name. ChainChomp is a good name, I'm not saying it's not, I just don't understand why its ironic.
 
To Flames: Yeah, that's a great way to preserve the element of surprise, they'll never know what hit them.Xp

On a more serious note, there's no need to get offended by something someone says on the internet, just... calm down, please.
 
Epistaxis said:
You obviously didn't grow up on Mario games then. :p

The problem with this set has already been mentioned - people expect dragonite to have at least one special move, and even if they don't they aren't usually going to risk sending something out with terrible special defense and good physical.
Click to expand...

I don't think you grew up playing one of the greatest NES games ever made: Double Dragon :-/

The problem is that everybody seems to have jumped on the "I found a new set that has potential so I'll give it a corny name" bandwagon. :|
Click to expand...

Well, Tyraniboah and ChainChomp are both from the mods... I'm just somewhat surprised they don't like it when other people emulate them.
 
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