The Next Best Thing... [V2]: Set Discussion

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Sub Work Up Victini

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Victini @ Life Orb/Leftovers
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 156 SAtk / 100 Atk / 252 HP
Mild Nature
- V-create
- Grass Knot
- Work Up
- Substitute​

Fire + Grass coverage is great, from top of my head can only say fire- types and dragon- types resist it. But the insane power after +1 and LO is unbelievable. This set fucks up stall, it's not made for HO, however, with sub you can kill 1-2 mons against HO. This set is also amazing because Victini forces a lot of switches and so can sub that turn, you can also set up a sub on pokemon that aim to status vicitni like Amoonguss and proceed to fuck stall. This set can also make 101 subs so it can set up on blissey :]. Oh, and Florges's Moonblast doesn't break the sub :]]]]]]].

HP EVs for 101 Subs, 156 SpA and a Mild Nature OHKOs Slowbro and Mega Blastoise w/ GK after Rocks, and OHKOs Suicune after SR and a little bit of damage. The rest are dumped into Attack.

Calcs:

+1 100 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 754-889 (105.6 - 124.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 100 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Umbreon: 383-452 (97.2 - 114.7%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO [Guranteed after rocks]
+1 156+ SpA Life Orb Victini Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 346-408 (87.8 - 103.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 156+ SpA Life Orb Victini Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Blastoise: 317-374 (87.5 - 103.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
100 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Florges: 382-450 (106.1 - 125%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 100 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 224 Def Florges: 430-508 (119.4 - 141.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 100 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Goodra: 372-438 (96.8 - 114%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO [Guranteed after rocks]
+2 100 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Ampharos: 265-313 (69 - 81.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 100 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Hydreigon: 303-357 (93.2 - 109.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 100 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Arcanine: 250-295 (65.1 - 76.8%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
156+ SpA Life Orb Victini Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 377-445 (89.7 - 105.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
156+ SpA Life Orb Victini Grass Knot (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Donphan: 359-424 (93.4 - 110.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
100 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Rotom-H: 131-155 (43 - 50.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 100 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Aerodactyl: 238-281 (78.8 - 93%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
100 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Empoleon: 309-367 (83 - 98.6%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 156+ SpA Life Orb Victini Grass Knot (60 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Alomomola: 403-476 (75.4 - 89.1%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 100 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 417-491 (103.2 - 121.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 100 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Gligar: 195-230 (58.3 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 100 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Victini: 208-246 (60.9 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

As for Victini's bulk, you can check Kitten Milk 's post because the bulk is the same.

Anyways, fuck stall, if this is played right, nothing can stop it on stall sans like phys. defensive mega apmharos. While everything common on stall like Blissey, Forretress, Mew, Empoleon, Gligar, Alomomola, etc. are decimated.

So with this set, Victini can survive every single SE attack (from non choice specs/band) in this meta, fucks up stall, literally 2HKOs the entire meta without even the boost of Work Up. True for things like Arcanine and Phys. Defensive Mega Amph you need +2 to get rid of them but as I said with sub and so many switches that Victini forces it is easy af to at least set up 1 work up.

Relevant calcs on Victini's Sub:

4 SpA Florges Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Victini: 56-66 (13.8 - 16.3%) -- possible 7HKO
Blissey Seismic Toss vs. 252 HP Victini: 100-100 (24.7 - 24.7%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
4 SpA Amoonguss Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Victini: 85-102 (21 - 25.2%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO
4 SpA Alomomola Scald vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Victini: 86-104 (21.2 - 25.7%) -- 1.1% chance to 4HKO
0 SpA Mew Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Victini: 43-51 (10.6 - 12.6%) -- possible 8HKO
4 SpA Roserade Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Victini: 49-58 (12.1 - 14.3%) -- possible 7HKO
252 Atk Jirachi Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Victini: 54-65 (13.3 - 16%) -- possible 7HKO
252+ SpA Celebi Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Victini: 56-66 (13.8 - 16.3%) -- possible 7HKO
252+ SpA Celebi Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Victini: 67-79 (16.5 - 19.5%) -- possible 6HKO

Florges, Blissey, Alomomola, Amoonguss, Mew (w/o Knock Off), Defensive Roserade, Jirachi, Celebi, etc. A lot of things cannot break your sub which can allow you to Work Up and kill.
So, basically, if you have problems with stall, just use this fucker and fuck the whole meta man.

Work Up is such an underrated move, but it's actually really great on mixed attackers, for example I tried it on my Draco/Superpower Hydra, Mixed Virizion, and am even thinking to use it on my Exploud [In RU] to fuck stall even more.

So, use this set, and have fun wrecking stall.

[also some credit to Kitten Milk because she he kinda gave me the idea of the sub on work up victini]

EDIT: Fixed, sorry lel
 
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Victini @ Life Orb / Expert Belt
Ability: Victory Star
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 Atk / 4 SAtk
Naive/Hasty Nature
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- Solar Beam / U-turn
- Sunny Day

A good ol' classic from the BW days when Hail drove people insane to the point that mons like this were actually used here or there. Granted, even though Hail is nonexistent in XY, and weather in general is rarer than anything, Sunny Day Victini has incredible offensive utility. With Sunny Day and Life Orb, Victini is able to bring its already-insane V-Create to even higher levels, destroy slower defensive teams (Stall included), and support its teammates all in one. The key to using this Victini is very simple. Play smart, use a slow U-turn or Volt Switch to get Victini in safely against some Pokemon it scares badly enough to force out (Which is basically anything slower that is either frail or lacking some semblance of fire resistance), and either attack if it's too early to drop the bomb, or if the opponent's team is weakened enough by now, set up Sunny Day. Once that's done, Victini's got the power to muscle through all but a small handful of every defensive Pokemon in the tier, while Sunny Day weakens Water-type moves used against it, offering it another turn to finish off bulky Water-types trying to get in. Solar Beam hits hard as full power Grass Knot (120 BP) and with Life Orb, 2HKOes every bulky Water in the tier at worst. (except Suicune, if Stealth Rock isn't up and it's at full HP when it comes in. Not hard to knock a little HP off Suicune. You can also run 72 SpA to ensure Solar Beam 2HKOes it, if it's that much of an issue for you.) Emphasis though, Life Orb is necessary for the obscene power. Don't use Expert Belt unless you're more interested in bluffing until the perfect chance presents itself, because your wallbreaking ability is a bit weaker.

U-turn can be used over Solar Beam if you want to be able to get momentum, bluff a choice item if you run Expert Belt (the best part is that this set still functions as your essential Ebelt Mixtini on your team, so it is not that hard to fit into even a non-Sun team and use), and rely on the deceptively good coverage V-Create and Bolt Strike still maintain for damage. Naive Nature is preferred so Download Porygon2/Porygon-Z get an Atk boost on top of the fact Victini can survive some priority hits more comfortably (+2 Mega Absol's Sucker Punch fails to OHKO from full HP with Naive), but Hasty can be used to preserve your Special Defense. This also means when Sun is up, Victini's ability to comfortably take Scalds is boosted as well.

Anyway, in a nutshell, the power of V-Create in Sun (esp. with Life Orb) is so obscene barely any Pokemon can stand up to it. Some mons are 2HKOed who can KO you back in return factoring in V-Create's drops + potential Life Orb damage (Mainly Mega Ampharos, Mega Blastoise, and Hippowdon among others), but bear in mind it isn't hard to rack up damage on them to allow them to be in KO range by the next time they switch in on Victini. Calcs below:

252 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Ampharos in Sun: 229-269 (59.6 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Ampharos in Sun: 166-196 (43.2 - 51%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Ampharos in Sun: 166-196 (43.2 - 51%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

4 SpA Life Orb Victini Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Swampert: 494-582 (122.2 - 144%) -- guaranteed OHKO

4 SpA Life Orb Victini Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 270-320 (68.5 - 81.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Victini Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 208-247 (52.7 - 62.6%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Victini Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 208-247 (52.7 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Life Orb Victini Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 203-239 (50.2 - 59.1%) -- 76.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Life Orb Victini Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 203-239 (50.2 - 59.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Life Orb Victini Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 200-237 (49.5 - 58.6%) -- 67.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Life Orb Victini Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 200-237 (49.5 - 58.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Blastoise in Sun: 203-240 (56 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO <-- lol
252 Atk Life Orb Victini Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Blastoise: 265-312 (73.2 - 86.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Life Orb Victini Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Blastoise: 200-237 (55.2 - 65.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Agaisnt Hippowdon you have to be smart enough to set up Sunny Day as it switches in. If the other dude isn't smart enough to switch out, this is going to happen:
252 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon in Sun: 308-363 (73.3 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Life Orb Victini Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Hippowdon: 294-348 (70 - 82.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Goodra in Sun: 320-377 (83.3 - 98.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Goodra in Sun: 320-377 (83.3 - 98.1%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock <-- Nice resist

252 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-H in Sun: 164-194 (54.1 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

AV Snorlax runs 252 Atk / 252 Def Adamant. In case anybody questions tf is up with the following spread:
252 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 0 HP / 252 Def Thick Fat Snorlax in Sun: 247-292 (53.5 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Victini V-create vs. 144 HP / 188 Def Thick Fat Snorlax in Sun: 265-312 (53.3 - 62.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Victini Bolt Strike vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 255-302 (47.7 - 56.5%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Life Orb Victini Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Alomomola: 421-497 (78.8 - 93%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 SpA Life Orb Victini Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Alomomola: 421-497 (78.8 - 93%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock RIP SUNFISH

That's pretty much every defensive mon in UU who isn't outright obliterated by LO V-Create in Sun (though they still get hammered pretty badly) barring Defensive Arcanine who is one of the few absolute counters out there (I guess Defensive Mega Ampharos too but he's gotta watch how many times he comes in, especially if SR is up. If it ends up falling below 50%, it's a wrap). The next segment of calcs is basically Victini's ability to take Scalds from Slowbro/Suicune in Sun, comparing both Hasty and Naive nature together. Not necessary in my opinion to list these vs. Swampert and Mega blastoise, since the former is OHKOed by Solar Beam (and has EQ to kill you with anyway) and the latter still does a cubic ton to you with Dark Pulse.

4 SpA Slowbro Scald vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Victini in Sun: 96-114 (28.1 - 33.4%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO
4 SpA Slowbro Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Victini in Sun: 84-102 (24.6 - 29.9%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO

4 SpA Suicune Scald vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Victini in Sun: 86-104 (25.2 - 30.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
4 SpA Suicune Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Victini in Sun: 78-92 (22.8 - 26.9%) -- 31% chance to 4HKO

It may not be much of a huge difference, but either way this ensures after setting up Sunny Day as they switch in, Victini is able to deliver a 2HKO to both of them, survive a hit even with Life Orb damage, and deal another finishing blow while the bulky waters fail to do much back.
 
4 SpA Slowbro Scald vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Victini in Sun: 96-114 (28.1 - 33.4%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO
4 SpA Slowbro Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Victini in Sun: 84-102 (24.6 - 29.9%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO
Click to expand...

this is very misleading i'm disappointed in you brobat

there are 4 possible outcomes out of 19^3 that lead to it 3HKOing. in other words, there is a .00058318% chance to 3hko not 0%


don't be deceived sheeple
 
Kitten Milk said:
this is very misleading i'm disappointed in you brobat

there are 4 possible outcomes out of 19^3 that lead to it 3HKOing. in other words, there is a .00058318% chance to 3hko not 0%


don't be deceived sheeple
Click to expand...

Blame honko for his calc that fails to display percentages accurately to the nearest ten-trillionth
 
Kitten's. To be honest, it was a toss-up between Brobat's and Kitten Milk's (which I've seen used in a really good Gen V RMT). However, I personally feel that Brobat's Sunny Day set could be just slapped on pretty much any Fire-type Pokemon (Moltres, Arcanine, Infernape).
 
I am voting for Kitten Milk. Although I love Brobat's, it feels too "Gen 5" for me when Aboma was running around with his permahail. WPTR Tini sounds amazing and I will definitely have to try that out one of these days.
 
reserving sd shaymin

OK SORRY FOR RESERVING OK

SD SHAYMIN

Shaymin @ Life Orb / Leftovers
Nature: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
-Swords Dance
-Seed Bomb
-Zen Headbutt
-Quick Attack/Synthesis

So for whatever reason, Shaymin gets Swords Dance. Although it's physical movepool is pretty barren, especially compared to its special movepool, it still has what it needs. Given Shaymin's prowess as a special attacker, most of its switchins are going to be special walls. This set handles common special walls quite well, and acts as a decent late game cleaner as well.

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Shaymin Seed Bomb vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mew: 285-335 (70.5 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Shaymin Seed Bomb vs. 252 HP / 232 Def Florges: 290-343 (80.5 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Shaymin Seed Bomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 515-606 (72.1 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Shaymin Seed Bomb vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Umbreon: 261-308 (66.2 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Life Orb Shaymin Zen Headbutt vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Crobat: 229-270 (61.3 - 72.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Black Sludge recovery

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Shaymin Zen Headbutt vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Roserade: 538-634 (206.1 - 242.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Shaymin Quick Attack vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Alakazam: 177-209 (70.2 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

On top of that, it deals with most of the premier walls in the tier in Hippo, Slowbro, and Alomomola. However, it does have its shortcomings. It's utterly walled by Steels, and doesn't hit too hard before setting up. However, it acts as a very good lure, and is honestly kinda fun to use.
 
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FUCK YOU FIRE TYPES
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Shaymin @ Focus Sash
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Atk / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Endeavor
- Quick Attack
- Seed Flare
- Synthesis / Leech Seed

ok ok so I know this looks horrible but it' snot!! lemme explain.

so the idea is basically that they switch in a naughty thing that can normally OHKO shaymin (think scaree fire types !!) and let's give them the benefit of the doubt and say that it's neutral momentum. So they're like "HA I CAN KILL YOU" but they can't because you're a baller and you run focus sash so you live the hit with 1 hp and boom you hit them back right in the face with that super endeavor kapow!

and then they're like "wtf stupid set lemme just kill it with this next move" but NO because you have quick attack so rip their shaymin counter

but kitten what if there's hazards and focus sash doesn't work anymore ??? :(???

i'm glad u asked

that's what synthesis/leech seed is for !! switch in onto something you scare out like swampert or suicune or slowbro and Synthesis on the switch as they go into their fire type so you're full health and they'll be lik (wtf why did it synthesis at 88%¿¿?) but u'll no better uc. and you can also run leech seed for same effect but it's a little iffy because shaymin has high hp =(.but yeah

oh and you still get seed flare for lol the only reason to even use shaymin amirite

enjoy fucking up the world =)))

in all honesty though, this works best if you have a team that needs a fire lure - so preferably don't run it with something that encourages them to just u-turn out (like a slowbro or w/e)

0XGyMo4.jpg
 
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Reserving Sub-Endeavor Shaymin
Kitten Milk used an Endeavor set and I don't feel like doing the same, gonna do Growth Shaymin


Shaymin @ Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Growth
- Air Slash / Psychic / Dazzling Gleam
- Seed Flare
- Earth Power

Shaymin's Seed Flare is already one of the most devestating attack in the tier, but Growth can boost it to scary levels. Thanks to the many bulky waters in the tier, Shaymin can often force a switch and start setting up a Growth. At +1, Shaymin can achieve more OHKO or 2HKOs that it couldn't before without having to rely on Seed Flare's unreliable SpDef drop rate. Thanks to Natural Cure, it can also setup on things that rely on status to deal damage, for example, Blissey

252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Earth Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Entei: 270-320 (72.5 - 86%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Earth Power vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Entei: 406-478 (109.1 - 128.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Mega Aggron: 133-158 (38.6 - 45.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Filter Mega Aggron: 199-236 (57.8 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Seed Flare vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 165-195 (23.1 - 27.3%) -- 1.9% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Shaymin Seed Flare vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 328-386 (45.9 - 54%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Edit: Bouffalant : sorry ;~; didn't mean to clog up the thread, but with something like Shaymin whose barren movepool can only offer a limited range of viable sets, people often clash ideas (i.e. Kitten and I both came up with Endeavor Shaymin lol) and therefore i felt it would be safer to make reservations ;~;
 
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ugh.. i hope it wouldn't come to this lol. I'll let it slide for this time namehtmas Kitten Milk Mahmudkipz but like the teambuilding thread, i'm gonna not allow reservations. either do it on the spot or wait till you have time, I don't want the thread clogged up.
 
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