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XY OU Analysis Reservation Index - READ CAREFULLY (MAKING A NEW THREAD)

TRC said:
Monte Cristo, you haven't posted a skeleton for the Mega Venusaur revamp in the rquired timeframe and I personally know Muk wants to work on it, and he did post the original thread. You are also now working on a Gliscor set. Do you mind if it gets taken over?
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Um dude I didn't even see if the Mega Venusaur thing got freaking approved, why are you telling me that I didn't post it in the timeframe if I never got any clarification ?_? either that or it never alerted me in my inbox/alerts thingy on smogon that someone replied to that thing. I talked to Muk on IRC last night and I told him I never got a revamp approved officially so, I guess if there's a go ahead, I can work on it.
 
Monte Cristo said:
yo dudes (holy shit I sound stoned)

anyways I'd like to reserve 2 things:
TauntWoW Victini (aka VictinOI)
and
SDef Gliscor (taunt toxic)

I know the 2 are very underrated but they deserve analysis:
  • read my posts in the victini QC 2/3 or 3/4 or w/e it is now thread to see why it deserves this rank
  • Adrian Marin can back up this
Glisc:
  • taunt toxic is the best set imo, it improves on it's stall breaking abilities so much by taunting stuff like synthesis mvenu and heal bell/recovery on chansey
  • sdef is amazing because it handles knock off lando post-orb activation
  • the set is taunt/toxic/roost/EQ
  • it can also roost on LO latias and win because draco drops
  • sdef is not better than pdef, pdef handles important shit too, but sdef isn't bad by any stretch of the imagination
  • Jukain can back up this
  • I think Yuttt was one of the first people to use this :] and thus can back it up
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I think that by now everyone realizes how good SpD Gliscor is, having increased popularity since the OP megas were banned (leading to more megachomp and megacross), as well as countering landI !

tauntw-o-w victini is outclassed by taunt/w-o-w/slack off infernape :x
 
Yuttt said:
I think that by now everyone realizes how good SpD Gliscor is, having increased popularity since the OP megas were banned (leading to more megachomp and megacross), as well as countering landI !

tauntw-o-w victini is outclassed by taunt/w-o-w/slack off infernape :x
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How is taunt WoW infernape better? it can't wall the potent stuff like mmedi, mgarde and fire fang mmaw and it has less bulk and weaker STAB, I'd like to see people use this because both people who I've gaven the set to (Adrian Marin) (Albacore) have reveared to it as great. (alexwolf said it seemed cool enough for him to test but i've gotten no ino back yet)However people like dice who have 0 experience with it dislike it, idk why we should deny clealy supported stuff over pure anti-victini theorymonners.
 
I think that Celebi deserves an OU anaylsis. I did not see it on the list of rejected pokemon, also I saw it Beta Pokedex. Even though the psychic typing hurts a lot, it's still an excellent counter to Rotom-W, can function as a good pivot, has access to instant recovery and a great support movepool. Although it is outclassed by Mega-Venasaur, it doesn't take up the mega slot and it can bring back a crippled/weakened mega with healing wish. It can run a lot of sets like bulky pivot, offensive nasty plot, leaf storm+u-turn, cleric, dual screens, (maybe scarf) etc. It's not pursuit bait either since it can just u-turn out. It's movepool is really great, since it has perish song, healing wish, recover, nasty plot, leech seed, etc. Additionally since it has a decent offensive movepool, would be counters like scizor and heatran risk switching in on a HP fire or earth power respectively. Although it's typing leaves it with a lot of weaknesses, it has it's fair amount of resistences as well. It counters all forms of rotom-w (taking 30.6-36.6 from a 252+ HP ice with 0/0 investment in bulk) and Breloom. Once it's job is complete it can use healing wish on a late-game cleaner to sweep. All-in-all I strongly believe that celebi should have an anaylsis and will like to reserve it if possible.
 
LOStreamer said:
I think that Celebi deserves an OU anaylsis. I did not see it on the list of rejected pokemon, also I saw it Beta Pokedex. Even though the psychic typing hurts a lot, it's still an excellent counter to Rotom-W, can function as a good pivot, has access to instant recovery and a great support movepool. Although it is outclassed by Mega-Venasaur, it doesn't take up the mega slot and it can bring back a crippled/weakened mega with healing wish. It can run a lot of sets like bulky pivot, offensive nasty plot, leaf storm+u-turn, cleric, dual screens, (maybe scarf) etc. It's not pursuit bait either since it can just u-turn out. It's movepool is really great, since it has perish song, healing wish, recover, nasty plot, leech seed, etc. Additionally since it has a decent offensive movepool, would be counters like scizor and heatran risk switching in on a HP fire or earth power respectively. Although it's typing leaves it with a lot of weaknesses, it has it's fair amount of resistences as well. It counters all forms of rotom-w (taking 30.6-36.6 from a 252+ HP ice with 0/0 investment in bulk) and Breloom. Once it's job is complete it can use healing wish on a late-game cleaner to sweep. All-in-all I strongly believe that celebi should have an anaylsis and will like to reserve it if possible.
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It's been rejected; I should know because I was the old writer.
 
The Shellder Smuggler said:
If you want a rejected Pokemon to have an analysis, make a fighting case for it.
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Just to clarify here, we are NOT encouraging people to post "fighting cases" for Pokemon simply because they want to help out. Honorable, but thoroughly not necessary. We have reached a point in the metagame in which nearly all viable Pokemon and sets have already been discovered. That is not to say that they have ALL been discovered, but if someone wants to discuss the viability of something, these are the standards we're generally expecting:
  • Clear understanding of the metagame on your part. We can't stress this one enough.
  • Successful usage in high-level play (i.e. battles between tournament players). Successful ladder usage has rarely proved to be effective (and hard to quantify) due to the questionable skill of most ladderers. That's not to say you can't use laddering and ladder replays as proof but please don't rely on it.
  • A clear (doesn't have to be long, just clear) description of the Pokemon's niches and why it works in the metagame. I emphasize the second part because saying Donphan has a niche in having Stealth Rock, Ice Shard, and Rapid Spin covers its niches, but says nothing about how it actually performs (and it performs pretty bad).
So yeah, I've hammered this message into this thread like 5 times now but I'll do it again because people have been attempting to reserve analyses recently. I'm not trying to single out anyone who has done so but I don't want people to waste their time trying to reserve something before they've done their research.
 
CyclicCompound said:
Just to clarify here, we are NOT encouraging people to post "fighting cases" for Pokemon simply because they want to help out. Honorable, but thoroughly not necessary. We have reached a point in the metagame in which nearly all viable Pokemon and sets have already been discovered. That is not to say that they have ALL been discovered, but if someone wants to discuss the viability of something, these are the standards we're generally expecting:
  • Clear understanding of the metagame on your part. We can't stress this one enough.
  • Successful usage in high-level play (i.e. battles between tournament players). Successful ladder usage has rarely proved to be effective (and hard to quantify) due to the questionable skill of most ladderers. That's not to say you can't use laddering and ladder replays as proof but please don't rely on it.
  • A clear (doesn't have to be long, just clear) description of the Pokemon's niches and why it works in the metagame. I emphasize the second part because saying Donphan has a niche in having Stealth Rock, Ice Shard, and Rapid Spin covers its niches, but says nothing about how it actually performs (and it performs pretty bad).
So yeah, I've hammered this message into this thread like 5 times now but I'll do it again because people have been attempting to reserve analyses recently. I'm not trying to single out anyone who has done so but I don't want people to waste their time trying to reserve something before they've done their research.
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I wasn't trying to encourage people, I was trying to just say that some reasoning would be fair enough.

But yeah, you covered pretty much what I meant, I actually wrote all that in about a minute before I left :P
 
- Celebi deserves an analysis
- Taunt + WoW Victini deserves a set
- TauntToxic SpD Gliscor deserves a set (not that anybody is going to oppose this)

Also, i would like to reserve Chandelure. Chandelure is even more of a nightmare to stall teams than Gengar with either Sub / Shadow Ball / WoW / Taunt or Sub / Shadow Ball / Flamethrower / Taunt, because of her excellent STABs, handy resistances, great abilities, and great dual STABs. It's also not useless against offense and balance at all with those set, being able to check prominent Pokemon such as Mega Mawile, Mega Charizard Y, Heatran, and Mega Scizor, as well as take advantage of common defensive pivots used on such teams, such as Ferrothorn, Mega Venusaur, and even Clefable to an extend. Using an EV spread of 160 HP / 156 SpA / 192 Spe (enough HP to allow your Subs to withstand Mega Venusaur's Sludge Bomb and Clefable's Moonblast, enough Speed to outrun Jolly Tyranitar and Adamant Bisharp, and rest to SpA), Chandelure takes ~55% from Mega Mawile's Play Rough, and doesn't care about most of its coverage moves except from Knock Off, which has been getting rare lately. Not only this, but Chandelure can easily bypass the SubPunch sets with Infiltrator WoW. As for Mega Charizard Y, here are some calcs:
  • 252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 160 HP / 0 SpD Chandelure: 91-107 (30.2 - 35.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
  • 156+ SpA Chandelure Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 130-154 (43.6 - 51.6%) -- 9% chance to 2HKO
Of course that's nothing more than a check, but it should definitely prevent Mega Char Y from spamming Fire Blast against a well-built team, as Flash Fire and sun boosted Fire attacks are simply crazy from Chandelure:
  • +1 156+ SpA Chandelure Flamethrower vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y in Sun: 164-193 (55 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
  • +1 156+ SpA Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y in Sun: 200-236 (67.1 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Anyway, the stallbreaking set of Chandelure (either one of them) can easily get past anything stall teams carry, except from Earth Power SpD Heatran and SpD Dragonite (the latter of which is very easy to wear down as long as you have a SR setter that prevents the common Defog users that stall teams carry from coming in). Chandelure even 2HKOes SpD Mega Charizard X after SR, while being able to take one EQ:
  • 156+ SpA Chandelure Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 140+ SpD Mega Charizard X: 130-154 (36.2 - 42.8%) -- 90.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
  • 0 Atk Mega Charizard X Earthquake vs. 160 HP / 0 Def Chandelure: 198-234 (65.7 - 77.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
And all this while Chandelure gets a big amount of set up chances against defensive teams: Clefable, Mega Venusaur, Defog Mega Scizor, Skarmory, Chansey, Heatran, Amoonguss, Slowbro, and Chesnaught. So, Chandelure is able to set up on at least 1/3 of your typical stall team.

--------------------------

Aside from the stallbreaking set though, Sub + 3 attacks with LO is also a viable set. Simply put, Chandelure's STABs are amazing as is her power, so most of the meta is 2HKOed by them. You only need Hidden Power Fight for Tyranitar. You also get to force out a ton of slower stuff due to the ridiculous power, so Sub chances are plenty. Here is what i mean when i say ridiculous power:
  • 252+ SpA Life Orb Chandelure Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Landorus-T: 335-395 (87.6 - 103.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Whenever you get a Sub against offense or balance, something is going down or getting left with 10-20% life in order to break Chandelure's Sub. Yeah, this set's surviability sucks and it faces huge competition by Mega Charizard Y, but it doesn't take up your Mega slot, isn't walled by the common as fuck Mega Charizard X, and other Pokemon such as SpD Hippo, Latios, and Latias, and isn't 4x SR weak, meaning it can play a bit more flexible when SR is up. Infiltrator is also super nice to OHKO SubToxic Gliscor (100 - 118.4%), SubToxic Aegislash, and SubPunch Mega Mawile (set up Sub, and then OHKO with Fire Blast, to avoid Sucker Punch), all of which are very big threats in OU, another thing that Mega Char Y can't do. Pain Split can be used over Hidden Power Fighting to have better durability, but Tyranitar is pretty common and getting fucked by it sucks.
 
I'd like someone to only reserve Celebi if they have a VERY good understanding of how it should be in the metagame, I'm not going to be babysitting this along. Therefore, if someone's initial skeleton isn't even close to what should be, I'm going to bring it up for reassignment.

Sorry for being harsh but this has happened too many times.
 
Due to computer issues rn, I'll be unreserving Cresselia. If you want to reserve Cresselia, please make sure you know what it does in OU and that you're experienced with it.
 
Monte Cristo was okay with me updating Venusaur instead, so I'm going to go ahead and do that.

edit: also, i've read through this thread and i know what QC people want to see included so i'll be sure to include it
 
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