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Data ASB Feedback & Game Issues Thread - Mk III
- Thread starter Dogfish44
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And quite a few of the other megas have some damage-boosting ability (Lucario has Adaptability, Garchomp has Sand Force, Kagnaskhan has Parental Bond, etc.) so you may as well consider their attacking stats higher, too.
Mega-Mawile has advantages over every other mega, just as they have advantages over Mawile. Mawile is one of the only megas with effective fairy coverage, and has one of (if not the) best defensive typing there is. I'm not saying it's the best, but it has its perks.
For the record, I do think Huge/Pure Power should double Atk.
For the record, I do think Huge/Pure Power should double Atk.
That makes no goddamn sense. Mega Mawile has a completely different typing and movepool than any of those, as well as Sheer Force. Only Scizor of those 3 gets a damage boosting ability and it boosts moves that are already weak! People don't use Pokemon just because of stats, they use Pokemon because of a combination of stats, abilities, typing, and movepool, and Mawile certainly has a good enough combination of those to see use over the others. If nothing else the fact that it's a Steel/Fairy with usable stats/movepool make it a worthwhile option, the fact that its stats are actually pretty damn good and its movepool is pretty solid only add onto this. I for one would almost certainly use Mega Mawile over Mega Scizor and possibly also over Mega Garchomp, even without a boost to the Mega Stone. And if I had to choose between Mega Mawile and Mega Tyranitar I wouldn't be choosing based off of a measely +1 Attack.
I don't see much sense in what you are saying. Mega-Garchomp gets a damage-boosting ability in Sand Force (sure, it only works in some situations, but same with Huge Power, Technician, or anything else), and Mega-Tyranitar effectively gets a Special Defense boosting ability (its a rock-type, so sandstorm boosts its Special Defense while racking up residual damage). Also, Mega-Tyranitar has 20 more HP, 1 more Defense, 1 more Special Attack, 2 more Special Defense, and 21 more Speed, and equal attack if Mawile does not get a buff.
I think you are forgetting Mega Gardevoir, which also is a Fairy-type, and has 100/3/3/7/5/100 stats, beating Mawile's 90/7/5/2/3/50 stats, with a few good fairy-type moves in Moonblast and Dazzling Gleam, a wide movepool like Mawile's, and reliable recovery, which Mawile lacks.
Mulan15262 Admittedly, I did forget about Sand Force, although as far as damage boosting abilities go it's about as unreliable as it gets AND only affects Ground Rock and Steel moves. The Rock type Special Defense boost is a fair point, but Mega Mawile still arguably has a better typing than Mega Tyranitar (only two weaks, no quad weaks and a fuckton of resists vs. T-tar's quad weak to Fighting, a bunch of other weaks, and not nearly as many resists as you'd like). Yes Mega Tyranitar still has better overall stats than it does, but a) a +1 Attack boost isn't going to change that and b) that still isn't going to change much as to who uses Mega Mawile and who uses Mega Tyranitar; they're very, very different Pokemon, and you're basically comparing apples to oranges which doesn't make sense.
Honestly the comparison to Mega Gardevoir makes more sense, and yes Mega Gardevoir is probably better overall than Mega Mawile is, but Mega Mawile still has its uses (its typing is probably still slightly better defensively, it beats other Fairies 1v1 fairly easily, it has slightly more coverage overall), and right now your argument is boiling down to "this is worse than these other things so we need to make it better somehow", which is basically the definition of buff culture and something we're supposed to AVOID. Since the buff is already implemented I can't see it being taken away entirely, but there is no real reason for it to exist and there is DEFINITELY no reason for it to be +2.
Avnomke I'm not a huge fan of the idea of +Attack Mega Medicham and Mega Mawile hitting Rank 10 Attack; that's just asking for trouble IMO. I guess it's worth considering though?
Honestly the comparison to Mega Gardevoir makes more sense, and yes Mega Gardevoir is probably better overall than Mega Mawile is, but Mega Mawile still has its uses (its typing is probably still slightly better defensively, it beats other Fairies 1v1 fairly easily, it has slightly more coverage overall), and right now your argument is boiling down to "this is worse than these other things so we need to make it better somehow", which is basically the definition of buff culture and something we're supposed to AVOID. Since the buff is already implemented I can't see it being taken away entirely, but there is no real reason for it to exist and there is DEFINITELY no reason for it to be +2.
Avnomke I'm not a huge fan of the idea of +Attack Mega Medicham and Mega Mawile hitting Rank 10 Attack; that's just asking for trouble IMO. I guess it's worth considering though?
Consider that even after Sheer Force Mawile's strongest move is at a mere 11 BAP, compared to Mega Garchomp's Outrage and Draco Meteor (or SF EQ), Mega Gardevoir's unholy Pixilate Hyper Beam, Mega Medicham's High Jump Kick, and even Mega Aggron's Heavy Slam. The comparison to Mega Tyranitar is just the Attack stat tbh, without the Huge Power boost Mega Mawile is hitting on the level of MegaTar--above average, but pitifully weak compared to mons like MegaGarde and MegaChar.
Basically the main reason to ever consider Mawile over other offensive megas is for its defensive typing--Steel/Fairy is one of the best defensive typings in existence. I don't think this will change even with a +2 or doubled attack rank, because even with Rank 10 Attack Char Y, Garde, and Cham are still hitting harder.
I'd prefer keeping MegaWile's buff and changing MegaCham's buff to match it, but no matter what we change it to we should at least allow each one to hit R9 Attack. They are supposed to be the two most powerful mons in the entire game, after all.
Basically the main reason to ever consider Mawile over other offensive megas is for its defensive typing--Steel/Fairy is one of the best defensive typings in existence. I don't think this will change even with a +2 or doubled attack rank, because even with Rank 10 Attack Char Y, Garde, and Cham are still hitting harder.
I'd prefer keeping MegaWile's buff and changing MegaCham's buff to match it, but no matter what we change it to we should at least allow each one to hit R9 Attack. They are supposed to be the two most powerful mons in the entire game, after all.
The original mega huge power WAS double atk. But it was changed real soon after the release, probably due to natures and stuff. The changes were so:
a) neutral nature was still double (4->8)
b) Skill swap wasn't so godlike.
TBH I don't see why change. Is 8atk so broken that it must be changed? If it was decided before that megamedicham and megamawile would have the same atk, then let's abide by that decision until it proves to be a bad one. Which it didn't. This change seems to be fueled not by actual problems, but by a simple perfectionism and I really don't see why bother.
Now the change in the wording of Huge Power is a valid concern. The original text gave mawile (base mon) +2 and the new text gives it +3 and I don't remember a voting about that change. Or even some kind of explanation. I think the original decision should be kept (8atk to both) and if megamawile prove to be broken, we can revisit the issue.
a) neutral nature was still double (4->8)
b) Skill swap wasn't so godlike.
TBH I don't see why change. Is 8atk so broken that it must be changed? If it was decided before that megamedicham and megamawile would have the same atk, then let's abide by that decision until it proves to be a bad one. Which it didn't. This change seems to be fueled not by actual problems, but by a simple perfectionism and I really don't see why bother.
Now the change in the wording of Huge Power is a valid concern. The original text gave mawile (base mon) +2 and the new text gives it +3 and I don't remember a voting about that change. Or even some kind of explanation. I think the original decision should be kept (8atk to both) and if megamawile prove to be broken, we can revisit the issue.
Frosty if that's the solution we want to go with then fine, but the issue then isn't Huge/Pure Power (which never should have given Mawile +2 in the first place), it's the fact that the Mawilite is +2 instead of +1 in that case. It feels a bit unfair to me that they both get the same boost despite Mawile getting a new ability and better overall stats, but it's not that big a deal in the grand scheme of things, and I don't really want to start buff culture arguments over something as (relatively) trivial as this. The lack of consistency just irks me.
And for good reason, the hell is that ._.
Most of the other ones aren't broken though. Blazikenite is probably the best of the rest (not counting Houndoomite and Manectrite which are super good to make up for the fact that their megas are still meh) and even then Super Speed Boost isn't particularly ridiculous.
Last I heard akela was waiting on something from Its_A_Random for something, if I remember correctly (feel free to yell at me if I'm wrong and I've tagged one of you for nothing), so maybe one of those two can shed some insight on this. I'd like to see the Ref Mentoring Program get going as well, so hopefully we can sort everything out and get that up and running.
I would also like to know how the mentor program is going. The one Elevator Music and Birkal are handling?
Or is that a figment of my imagination (I don't remember if it actually received the thumbs up)?
Or is that a figment of my imagination (I don't remember if it actually received the thumbs up)?
Can we form two tribes into one? Emma and I could pump out referees who can self ref with mentoring... I can get it done this weekend. We started progress but couldn't do much because the self reffing program definitely overshadows our work. Would be easier if Emma and I could just make a singular program for new users and self reffing.
I still prefer a two-stage system, a "how to ASB" and a "how to ref". Whether these are two parts of the same program or two different programs I'm indifferent on. I don't know how much work akela has done on the Ref Mentoring Program but he might be a bit miffed if we just roll Ref Mentoring into ASB 101 without clearing it with him first.
Sorry, but what exactly is the difference between "Ref Mentoring" and "ASB 101"? That's part of the difficulty I've been running into with this mentorship program. If you want to learn about battling, the two programs do the exact same thing. They teach you how to run calculations, equip Pokemon with items, and how to read stats / make profiles. The only difference is that ASB 101 assigns new users to mentoring buddies who are ASB veterans, while ref mentoring has an exam or something. There's too much overlap to justify them being separate. Combining the two seems a bit less intrusive.
Ref mentoring assumes that you are already familiar with how the system works. Also, it is way more interesting if the person already has some battling experience, as it makes it easier to judge viability of combos etc that way.
It kinda bugs me this mentality that a person should join the game and already start reffing a gazillion matches to speed-train their mons. A newcomer should come and battle and reffing should only come later when they feel ready or when they feel the need to have more counters.
Reffing is much more...technical and mechanical than playing, which demands from you a strategic mind and not just a "now which move deals more damage here..." mentality that suffices on reffing. Sure, as you go up in the quality ladder both areas begin to overlap, but in the begining, reffing and playing are very different experiences, that demand different capacities from the respective players. There are great refs who are poor players and poor refs who are great players.
I feel that general mentoring should stay apart from ref mentoring simply because a player can very well stay years without reffing. An ASB 101 program shows things you NEED to know to play the game (how to register, how to claim and how to play). Reffing is, still, optional, I feel it is more adequate if it stays apart and the person interested in reffing to speed up their results can take the ref mentoring program (emphasis on can).
If you join both programs, you will send the message that every new player must take on reffing as much as they should battle. While that helps with the always present ref shortage, it turns ASB into a more...mechanical, boring experience. You will end up losing people by forcing up reffing like that.
At most they can be complimentary (one and then the other) as they may learn how to ref only after registering, claiming and battlings is covered. I don't want people to become only refs (this statement is valid to the people who are already that way). Newcomers should learn that ASB is a way to have fun even without a gazillion moves and I feel that every day we are straying further from this path. Joining both programs will only add to that issue.
IMO, obviously.
It kinda bugs me this mentality that a person should join the game and already start reffing a gazillion matches to speed-train their mons. A newcomer should come and battle and reffing should only come later when they feel ready or when they feel the need to have more counters.
Reffing is much more...technical and mechanical than playing, which demands from you a strategic mind and not just a "now which move deals more damage here..." mentality that suffices on reffing. Sure, as you go up in the quality ladder both areas begin to overlap, but in the begining, reffing and playing are very different experiences, that demand different capacities from the respective players. There are great refs who are poor players and poor refs who are great players.
I feel that general mentoring should stay apart from ref mentoring simply because a player can very well stay years without reffing. An ASB 101 program shows things you NEED to know to play the game (how to register, how to claim and how to play). Reffing is, still, optional, I feel it is more adequate if it stays apart and the person interested in reffing to speed up their results can take the ref mentoring program (emphasis on can).
If you join both programs, you will send the message that every new player must take on reffing as much as they should battle. While that helps with the always present ref shortage, it turns ASB into a more...mechanical, boring experience. You will end up losing people by forcing up reffing like that.
At most they can be complimentary (one and then the other) as they may learn how to ref only after registering, claiming and battlings is covered. I don't want people to become only refs (this statement is valid to the people who are already that way). Newcomers should learn that ASB is a way to have fun even without a gazillion moves and I feel that every day we are straying further from this path. Joining both programs will only add to that issue.
IMO, obviously.
I was never contacted with regards to help on the Referee Training Program.
To be fair I never made an effort to make contact.
I have enough on my plate as it is and I would rather not be involved with either of these things.
To be fair I never made an effort to make contact.
I have enough on my plate as it is and I would rather not be involved with either of these things.
That's exactly how it works in game
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akela and Birkal agreed to work together on the Ref Mentoring/ASB Mentoring program(s) along with EM. I'll keep track of the progress and hopefully everything will be worked out soonish.
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