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Hearthstone [IRC Channel #Skillstone]
- Thread starter LonelyNess
- Start date
Leeroy isn't even broken though... only the combos push it too far. This makes any deck outside of Miracle and Handlock with Leeroy really sad, especially Tempo Rogue, which doesn't even run Shadowstep, and just relies on Leeroy as a finisher. Just give Leeroy the Faerie Dragon treatment and it's totally fine. This is a really dumb nerf, especially because of the fact that it just stems from a particularly whiny community.
Dunno about the rest of you, but I've never been able to SS on Leeroy twice in a row, can't ever seem to draw the 2 at the same time and it's usually unnecessary unless you've like never attacked your opponent. Besides Leeroy + CB + SS + Leeroy + CB still comes out to 10 mana exactly and deals out a solid 20. That extra mana cost per leeroy play means you can't Sap out a taunt monster if they have one out that same turn, or of course you can't play an extra SS for Leeroy again. Maybe you could try playing cute and bring out a Pint Size Summoner the turn before you combo? Lol...
I haven't heard too many complaints about Leeroy lately, but it makes sense from Blizzard's philosophy about the game. They want it to be based on creature combat and interactiveness that way, and Leeroy is the big enabler of combo decks, which arguably mess that up.
And I'm not heartbroken.
And I'm not heartbroken.
yep QFT....especially the bold part :/
Exhibit A: http://puu.sh/bueQO/e04b983575.jpg
Exhibit B: http://i.imgur.com/1hr9Pbe.jpg
The community whines in general, but whenever Hunter is the strongest class, they get REALLY irate. To be fair, I can kind of understand. Whenever I queue up against any Mad Scientist Midrange Hunter, I get a little irked because that variant of Hunter is the greediest variant IMO. It basically sacrifices the potential effectiveness of your traps to go all-in on gaining tempo and holding onto it. I imagine it basically sacrifices any chance of beating Miracle Rogue by going this route. Also, the bad rep that Hunter has in the community probably stems back to when the OTK Hunter was big in closed beta.
So, I guess this patch hits on the 22nd? That's what I hear. I don't think the Leeroy nerf will affect Miracle Rogue as much as people think. Miracle Rogue doesn't necessarily need Leeroy to kill you. I've lost plenty of games to Miracle and I never saw them drop Leeroy once.
Part of me feels sad because I main Hunter, though I've been practicing with other classes lately. Another part of me is very excited because I also see it as challenge to still make the Midrange variant relevant. I did it before in the Miracle meta pre-Naxx. I feel like I can do it again.
People hate aggro (and especially Leeroy aggro) because Charge in particular is not something you can actually respond to, so people get pissed off when they have like 24 HP and are cheesed to 0 in a single turn because Leeroy is broken.
Matthew handlock will still be good, as a handlock main I think it improves overall because of the direct nerfs to Hunter and Miracle, two of Handlock's worst matchups. The amount of games you actually close with Leeroy + PO + Faceless is really, really small. Generally you just win through gaining board control and running 8 attack creatures into face.
I'm very happy that Hunter is getting nerfed into the ground. Hunter by itself, simply due to its power and prevalence, made several classes almost unplayable, and limited a variety of others. Hopefully this is Blizzard's way of saying "we support control decks" because aggro is super boring to play and play against. Finally I can bust out the freeze mage again
I'm very happy that Hunter is getting nerfed into the ground. Hunter by itself, simply due to its power and prevalence, made several classes almost unplayable, and limited a variety of others. Hopefully this is Blizzard's way of saying "we support control decks" because aggro is super boring to play and play against. Finally I can bust out the freeze mage again
P
I wasn't saying that handlock will be worse, I was saying the burst damage you had to work with is no longer a huge issue.
I love the change because I love control, I was just saying burst was nerfed
I wasn't saying that handlock will be worse, I was saying the burst damage you had to work with is no longer a huge issue.
I love the change because I love control, I was just saying burst was nerfed
Hey I'm intermediate level right now and I was wondering what 2 legends you guys think I should craft next because I have 1600 dust and also just busted open a golden lorewalker cho (lol)
My current legends are: sylvanus, black knight, leeroy jenkins (maybe ill even disenchant him if he really does get nerfed), and mukla
I was thinking I was gonna make ragnaros for my first. But for my second I was not really sure between cairne, bloodmage thalnos, ysera, and alexstrasza in order of what I thought was relevant.
I kind of wanted to improve my decks for mid-late game/"control," so that's why I was thinking ragnaros. Not really interested in aggro because I have played that a lot of my early career (my first two legends were mukla and leeroy) Was also looking for a neutral legend because I wanted to play more than one class with my legends.
As for the specific cards, I was not sure if cairne was too slow or not. Bloodmage was a slight turn off because I'm not quite sure what it works with besides shaman, rogue, and freeze mage. Ysera is kinda slow. and alex only seems to work for control warrior, handlocke, and freeze mage.
If you guys could give some more insight on the intricacies of the cards, that would be amazing :]
p.s. add me finally#1450
My current legends are: sylvanus, black knight, leeroy jenkins (maybe ill even disenchant him if he really does get nerfed), and mukla
I was thinking I was gonna make ragnaros for my first. But for my second I was not really sure between cairne, bloodmage thalnos, ysera, and alexstrasza in order of what I thought was relevant.
I kind of wanted to improve my decks for mid-late game/"control," so that's why I was thinking ragnaros. Not really interested in aggro because I have played that a lot of my early career (my first two legends were mukla and leeroy) Was also looking for a neutral legend because I wanted to play more than one class with my legends.
As for the specific cards, I was not sure if cairne was too slow or not. Bloodmage was a slight turn off because I'm not quite sure what it works with besides shaman, rogue, and freeze mage. Ysera is kinda slow. and alex only seems to work for control warrior, handlocke, and freeze mage.
If you guys could give some more insight on the intricacies of the cards, that would be amazing :]
p.s. add me finally#1450
The legendaries that see utility in a most versatile manner is Leeroy (though might wanna hold back on that to see how the meta pans out after his nerf) Sylvanas, Cairne, Sniper Ragnaros, Ysera, and Alexztraza (Absolutely hugely underrated legendary that save your life or put the opponent in deep shit in one fell swoop of a turn, and still being a giant presence on board despite, frankly that incredible ability).... outside spell combos... Thalnos has many substitutes.. namely Azure Drakes, Ogre Magis and the likes, only use Thalnos if you're looking for damage spell exclusive combos like in freeze mage, token druid (for pseudo removal/strong AoE) or miracle rogue.
If you're focussed on Control/Mid, go for either Sylvanas, Ysera (ultimate control minion with 3 of the the dream cards being board control focussed), or Cairne. Ragnaros is too finicky and requires too much support for my taste to be of "control" utility, otherwise he's a fine legend, and finds a place in many decks.
And dude, on a less serious note... Lorewalker cho is dope... watch Noxious stream once in a while.
If you're interesting in playing control and you don't know what class you prefer yet, I would recommend crafting Rag and Cairne. They are the best neutral legendaries for control decks (aside from Sylvanas which you already have) and are a staple in decks like Warrior Control and Ramp Druid - decks that will hopefully be coming back into favor due to the upcoming nerfs. Alexstrasza is another good choice, it honestly depends on what sort of class you think you're going to play first. I would start with focusing on one specific decklist you want to craft and work towards that. That's how I started, I decided I wanted to craft Warrior Control, saved up the dust, crafted it, and played about 500 games on the ranked ladder, then progressed into Druid, Handlock, Priest, etc. It's one of the best ways to get really really good at the game imo. When you're focusing on only one deck and how it interacts with other decks on the ladder, it's a lot easier to become a master.
Soul Fly I think Ysera sucks in this meta, I've cut it from all my decks (aside from Ramp Druid which is the only deck it can shine in). It takes a full turn to develop and creates no immediate board pressure, unlike Alex or Rag, for example. What are the merits of playing it in Warrior, Priest, etc.? I might consider it in Paladin but there's KT and Tirion sooooo...
I think Ysera still provides a lot of utility in options in a deck where you tend to burn down your hand pretty much by the time it's late game. So any deck that needs late game card advantage (worth frankly incredible cards) finds a legitimate use for Ysera... though I do agree it's viability has tempered the last season or so, but I find its stats just perfect, making it fucking bulky, with decent board presence while that attack stat (imo) is also perfect leaving it out of range of most common pseudo hard removals in the game (SW:P, SW:D, BGH, BK Shield Slam) which usually guarantees at least 2-3 dream cards if played right.
Ysera allows Warrior Control to actually stand a chance against Control Pally if the game goes late and it usually does in that matchup. It also helps them do better against Priest since Priest can literally do nothing to it without a good enough board. All of the Dream cards provide a benefit to Warrior Control. Dream gets rid of late game Taunts that try to stop the Grommash finisher. Ysera Awakens combos with Grom for 15 damage. You could argue that it's not as necessary now b/c of Death's Bite, but it does double as a board clear. Nightmare is just an additional 5+ damage burst for any threat you have. Killing off your own Sylvanas is cute as well, but the opponent gets the chance to alter their board beforehand so you get their worst minion. The minions are less useful, but they are still actual threats, which is never a bad thing (if Laughing Sister was an actual card in the game, she'd be amazing IMO).
All this said, Ysera is VERY slow. Even though the meta is slower than it was pre-Naxx, it's still too fast for Ysera to go into just any control deck. Druid and Warrior are the best classes that can afford to play her. You could make a case for fitting her in Paladin and even Priest, but...meh, they're shaky. She's also just generally terrible against Hunter, but if the metagame slows down even more after the nerf, I think she'll get better.
I'd basically go with what Lavos said: Cairne and Rag (especially since you have Sylv already). They fit into the most decks at the moment. If you are looking to play control with a specific class, then things might get a bit more complicated. Just an example: you might be able to get away with playing Warrior Control without Grommash, but he makes the deck a LOT better as there is no "replacement" for him (no card does exactly what he does). Same with Paladin & the Tirion legendary. There's nothing wrong with waiting it out though to see what the meta does (usually what I do). Unless you want to play control nao ofc ;)
All this said, Ysera is VERY slow. Even though the meta is slower than it was pre-Naxx, it's still too fast for Ysera to go into just any control deck. Druid and Warrior are the best classes that can afford to play her. You could make a case for fitting her in Paladin and even Priest, but...meh, they're shaky. She's also just generally terrible against Hunter, but if the metagame slows down even more after the nerf, I think she'll get better.
I'd basically go with what Lavos said: Cairne and Rag (especially since you have Sylv already). They fit into the most decks at the moment. If you are looking to play control with a specific class, then things might get a bit more complicated. Just an example: you might be able to get away with playing Warrior Control without Grommash, but he makes the deck a LOT better as there is no "replacement" for him (no card does exactly what he does). Same with Paladin & the Tirion legendary. There's nothing wrong with waiting it out though to see what the meta does (usually what I do). Unless you want to play control nao ofc ;)
I like the idea of Warrior without Grommash, since it's already such a top-heavy deck, but realistically I don't think it stands a chance. In control vs control, Warrior is almost always going to draw its entire deck, assisted by Acolyte and Shield Block, and it's going to be constantly competing for board dominance. One of the only ways you actually WIN as Warrior, sans fatigue, is through turn 9 Alexstrasza into turn 10 Grommash + activation. 10-12 damage straight to the face is incredibly key in these type of matchups, especially the mirror. Actually I think there's no way you win a mirror matchup as Warrior if you don't draw Grom. He's that important. (I know you're not saying it's viable, I'm just thinking about it)
On a different note, I might DE my Leeroy. I only use him in Handlock, and he's marginally less valuable now that you can't do the Faceless + POW combo. But I probably won't, because Leeroy + Shadowflame is too good. I'm also thinking about putting Jaraxxus back in my deck if Hunter really does fall right off the map. If you can get him out there it's insane value for every turn after that. 2 mana 6/6 is broken.
Does anyone know if Jaraxxus still fails to register as a Warlock win? You used to not get the ranked win/500 if you won while Jaraxxus was active, but I'm not sure if they already patched that.
On a different note, I might DE my Leeroy. I only use him in Handlock, and he's marginally less valuable now that you can't do the Faceless + POW combo. But I probably won't, because Leeroy + Shadowflame is too good. I'm also thinking about putting Jaraxxus back in my deck if Hunter really does fall right off the map. If you can get him out there it's insane value for every turn after that. 2 mana 6/6 is broken.
Does anyone know if Jaraxxus still fails to register as a Warlock win? You used to not get the ranked win/500 if you won while Jaraxxus was active, but I'm not sure if they already patched that.
thanks for the advice guys ^_^
i think after the patch i will do the disenchanting and get ragnaros and cairne
maybe even disenchant my leeroy for something like grommash or al'akir or a personal class legend to practice and get really good with a deck like you guys said
sidenote: i've seen some pretty funny coin lorewalker cho videos, so maybe ill try living the noxious dream ;]
i think after the patch i will do the disenchanting and get ragnaros and cairne
maybe even disenchant my leeroy for something like grommash or al'akir or a personal class legend to practice and get really good with a deck like you guys said
is this the giants duplicate deck? that is brutal to fight against if you are midrangey
jackie chun responded to me n_n. make more vids of anything man. love all your stuff, especially the dpp ou stuff
sidenote: i've seen some pretty funny coin lorewalker cho videos, so maybe ill try living the noxious dream ;]
I'd like to throw out there that while the ludicrously broken beasts hunter is going to be dead, decks like Face Hunter and Zoo Hunter are still tourney level decks.
The class isn't dead, it's just not the best class in the game anymore. Hunter will very much more be alive after this nerf than when UTH was nerfed for the first time. Webspinner, Mad Scientist, and Creeper still give him too much early game momentum to not be a good aggro deck.
Hunter might not be #1 after this nerf but he's still going to be better than Mage and Rogue after the 22nd. Rogue is really the class people should be looking toward being wiped off the map: the entire class either played decks that depended on Leeroy, or depended on other Rogue decks existing in the metagame to be viable.
Theres that new Token Rogue that doesn't care as much about Leeroy getting nerfed but it's still a large hit to the deck. Hunter will be alive and well on the 22nd, it's Rogue that's falling off the map.
The class isn't dead, it's just not the best class in the game anymore. Hunter will very much more be alive after this nerf than when UTH was nerfed for the first time. Webspinner, Mad Scientist, and Creeper still give him too much early game momentum to not be a good aggro deck.
Hunter might not be #1 after this nerf but he's still going to be better than Mage and Rogue after the 22nd. Rogue is really the class people should be looking toward being wiped off the map: the entire class either played decks that depended on Leeroy, or depended on other Rogue decks existing in the metagame to be viable.
Theres that new Token Rogue that doesn't care as much about Leeroy getting nerfed but it's still a large hit to the deck. Hunter will be alive and well on the 22nd, it's Rogue that's falling off the map.