Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V3) (Rank changes are over until ORAS)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Yes, Lanturn does have unique merits of its own, and I suppose I should've mentioned more of those in my original nomination post. But I've found the most success with it when paired up with Rotom-W because they work well together sharing burdens. But anyway, Lanturn is a very niche mon that can shine a little as a pivot due to the fact of Water Absorb, Volt Absorb, and its unorthodox support movepool. I think it's deserving of a D-rank at least for awhile.

The reason I didn't mention much other than the electric absorption side is due to the fact that there are a ton of water resists in OU that outshine Lanturn even though it has water absorb. If Lanturn didn't have access to Volt Absorb then Rotom-W would outclass it in every single way except statistical bulk.
 
Last edited:
Every time I try to bring up discussion about Wobbuffet, no discussion occurs. It is not even that bad, and while it is weak to Knock Off, is slow, and has no reliable recovery, it is still a really good trapper that can trap and remove a lot of offensive Pokemon that may give a team problems, such as Excadrill, Talonflame, M-Medicham, M-Gardevoir, etc.; Wobb for C+ is hardly a reach by any means.

Can we move down Infernape to C Rank as well? The lead set probably does work, but outside of that, Infernape is not that good at all, even at wallbreaking I would rather use other wallbreakers, since Infernape is not even that strong, and cannot break down defensive cores as well as it should anymore like others can.
 
Every time I try to bring up discussion about Wobbuffet, no discussion occurs. It is not even that bad, and while it is weak to Knock Off, is slow, and has no reliable recovery, it is still a really good trapper that can trap and remove a lot of offensive Pokemon that may give a team problems, such as Excadrill, Talonflame, M-Medicham, M-Gardevoir, etc.; Wobb for C+ is hardly a reach by any means.

Can we move down Infernape to C Rank as well? The lead set probably does work, but outside of that, Infernape is not that good at all, even at wallbreaking I would rather use other wallbreakers, since Infernape is not even that strong, and cannot break down defensive cores as well as it should anymore like others can.
Wobbuffet can actually get 2HKO'd by those Pokemon you mentioned depending on their set (except Mega Medicham, but it's been known to run Baton Pass to make Bisharp's life easier), so you usually have to come in after something dies to successfully trap them. I'm not against it moving it, but it's something to note.
 
Every time I try to bring up discussion about Wobbuffet, no discussion occurs. It is not even that bad, and while it is weak to Knock Off, is slow, and has no reliable recovery, it is still a really good trapper that can trap and remove a lot of offensive Pokemon that may give a team problems, such as Excadrill, Talonflame, M-Medicham, M-Gardevoir, etc.; Wobb for C+ is hardly a reach by any means.

Can we move down Infernape to C Rank as well? The lead set probably does work, but outside of that, Infernape is not that good at all, even at wallbreaking I would rather use other wallbreakers, since Infernape is not even that strong, and cannot break down defensive cores as well as it should anymore like others can.
I don't really agree with Wobuffet. It has one niche and it is outclassed in that one by Gothitelle by due to Goth's offensive capability and the fact it can trap and cripple some things with trick. Wobuffet is way bulkier. I see no reason to wobb over goth. However I agree with dropping Infernape. The further we get into this meta the more I see no reason to run it unless used as an anti lead.
 
I don't really agree with Wobuffet. It has one niche and it is outclassed in that one by Gothitelle by miles due to Goth's offensive capability and the fact it can trap and cripple some things with trick. I see no reason to wobb over goth. However I agree with dropping Infernape. The further we get into this meta the more I see no reason to run it unless used as an anti lead.

Wobb isn't outclassed by Goth. Goth is better versus defensive teams, whereas Wobb is better versus offense. That is a common misconception among people. If you think Wobb is outclassed by Goth, it implies you think you know how Wobb works, but in reality you do not. Goth also does not fit onto offensive teams whatsoever, because Goth is a huge momentum killer. Wobb can kill momentum too, but anything can, and Wobb can actually fit onto more offensive teams, unlike Goth.

Wobbuffet can actually get 2HKO'd by those Pokemon you mentioned depending on their set (except Mega Medicham, but it's been known to run Baton Pass to make Bisharp's life easier), so you usually have to come in after something dies to successfully trap them. I'm not against it moving it, but it's something to note.

Obviously Wobb isn't perfect, and you have to be smart when playing it, but it still is a really good trapper against offensive teams.
 
Last edited:
Wobb isn't outclassed by Goth. Goth is better versus defensive teams, whereas Wobb is better versus offense. That is a common misconception among people.


Obviously Wobb isn't perfect, and you have to be smart when playing it, but it still is a really good trapper against offensive teams.
That's a pretty fair point, and I do understand the reasoning for wanting to use wobb, however due to the fact that this meta kind of more defensive than offensive, I do believe there is less reason to use wobb in the meta than Gothitelle. Also, Goth is found on loads of offensive teams as it provides great support. Mega pinsir and gothitelle are great partners.
 
Infernape can still break down stall teams rather well. A set of Fire Blast/CC/Grass Knot/HP Ice can wreak havoc. At 212 Attack, 44 Special Attack and 252 Speed with a Naive nature and a Life Orb, it OHKOs non-SDef Gliscor, Skarm, Chansey, Quag and Ferro. Slowbro is also 2HKOed with Grass Knot, if you hit it on the switch Slowbro is done. It even has a decent chance to break up the VenuTran core. Heatran is OHKOed, and Fire Blast has a 32.4% chance to 2HKO Venu. I do agree C is a better rank for it because the meta is not very favorable to it, but it can still can wallbreak (without using a Mega stone) while still having the speed to hang with offense. In theory it still works well.

44 SpA Life Orb Infernape Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 143-172 (39.2 - 47.2%) -- 32.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
212 Atk Life Orb Infernape Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 400-476 (103.8 - 123.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
44 SpA Life Orb Infernape Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Slowbro: 192-229 (48.7 - 58.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
44 SpA Life Orb Infernape Hidden Power Ice vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 312-369 (88.6 - 104.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
44 SpA Life Orb Infernape Hidden Power Ice vs. 244 HP / 192+ SpD Gliscor: 229-270 (65 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Poison Heal
212 Atk Life Orb Infernape Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 562-663 (87.5 - 103.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
44 SpA Life Orb Infernape Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 168 SpD Ferrothorn: 515-608 (146.3 - 172.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
44 SpA Life Orb Infernape Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Quagsire: 458-541 (116.2 - 137.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
44 SpA Life Orb Infernape Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Skarmory: 445-525 (133.2 - 157.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
That's a pretty fair point, and I do understand the reasoning for wanting to use wobb, however due to the fact that this meta kind of more defensive than offensive, I do believe there is less reason to use wobb in the meta than Gothitelle. Also, Goth is found on loads of offensive teams as it provides great support. Mega pinsir and gothitelle are great partners.

*I have not seen a single offensive team featuring Gothitelle. You say that it provides great support, but Goth on offense, from what I have seen, is not that common.
*Most teams in XY are offensive in nature. I am unsure where you got that assumption. There are always going to be bulky Pokemon, but really, this meta is more offensive than defensive.
 
Wobb isnt like goth or magnezone in that its meant to take out specific threats, contrary to common misconception. If anything, wobb creates setup opportunities for its teammates through encore and safeguard. Wobb, unlike goth, can also switch into many of its targets as well and isnt a momentum killer at all cuz of encore. I will elaborate more later when i have time but wobb definitely deserves to move up
 
I don't really agree with Wobuffet. It has one niche and it is outclassed in that one by Gothitelle by due to Goth's offensive capability and the fact it can trap and cripple some things with trick. Wobuffet is way bulkier. I see no reason to wobb over goth. However I agree with dropping Infernape. The further we get into this meta the more I see no reason to run it unless used as an anti lead.
Gothitelle has issues against offense due to its bad bulk, Speed, and SpA, while having to choose between Scarf for Speed or Specs for power. Wobbuffet has a better matchup against offense due to being able to take hits and force its opponent to attack it with Encore and/or get a free switch against a setup sweeper, but it can't do shit to stall because it relies on Counter and Mirror Coat.

Essentially one works better against Stall/defensive teams while the other works better against offense.
 
Last edited:
Gothitelle has issues against offense due to its bad bulk, Speed, and SpA, while having to choose between Scarf for Speed or Specs for power. Wobbuffet has a better matchup against offense due to being able to force its opponent to attack it or use Encore to get a free switch against a setup sweeper, but it can't do shit to stall because it relies on Counter and Mirror Coat.

Essentially one works better against Stall/defensive teams while the other works better against offense.
I get that, but the meta is currently is pretty stall based is it not? Or are things kind of shifting and I'm not really noticing. (Actually as I say this I recognize a lot of volt turn cores and HO)

*I have not seen a single offensive team featuring Gothitelle. You say that it provides great support, but Goth on offense, from what I have seen, is not that common.
*Most teams in XY are offensive in nature. I am unsure where you got that assumption. There are always going to be bulky Pokemon, but really, this meta is more offensive than defensive.
Well from what I have gatjered the meta is very stall based, but as I just said it's started to shift toward a very offensive type style lately. I know that it has been full of a lot of bulky offensive mons too though.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Well from what I have gatjered the meta is very stall based, but as I just said it's started to shift toward a very offensive type style lately. I know that it has been full of a lot of bulky offensive mons too though.

Stall isn't very common at all. Stall dropped in usage a little after Aegislash left. Bulky offense, but Wobb can still do work against bulky offense as well.
 
Stall isn't very common at all. Stall dropped in usage a little after Aegislash left. There is bulky offense, but Wobb can still do work against bulky offense as well.
Yeah I was mentioning how I noticed a lot more offense lately. I can see the points yer making here, so consider me convinced. ;)
 
I get that, but the meta is currently is pretty stall based is it not? Or are things kind of shifting and I'm not really noticing. (Actually as I say this I recognize a lot of volt turn cores and HO)


Well from what I have gatjered the meta is very stall based, but as I just said it's started to shift toward a very offensive type style lately. I know that it has been full of a lot of bulky offensive mons too though.

Stall is much less common than offense, especially towards the top of the ladder. I understand your confusion though, literally every other nomination on this thread wants a raise because so and so "wrecks stall." It seems like we rank everything based on the grounds that all play styles are equally viable when in fact they arent...
 
Stall is much less common than offense, especially towards the top of the ladder. I understand your confusion though, literally every other nomination on this thread wants a raise because so and so "wrecks stall." It seems like we rank everything based on the grounds that all play styles are equally viable when in fact they arent...
Yeah I saw it a lot less after breaking like 1700, I guess it just didn't really click.
 
Stall is much less common than offense, especially towards the top of the ladder. I understand your confusion though, literally every other nomination on this thread wants a raise because so and so "wrecks stall." It seems like we rank everything based on the grounds that all play styles are equally viable when in fact they arent...
I think to break stall these days you just have to be able run Taunt/Sub/Swords Dance and three other moves. So basically anything can stall or wall break with the right moves. That's what happens when the philosophy of some stall teams is to sit on your dick and Toxic everything to death while switching over and over. Of course, not everything has to move up because of that. You are right, I've seen a lot of noms here that go something like "X can stallbreak with it's Taunt+3 Attacks, it's SD set or it's Sub+3 Attacks set."
 
While Mandibuzz definitely lost a lot of its viability during the last months, due to the absence of Aegislash and the prominence of wallbreaking MEvos that shit all over it (Mega Charizard Y, Mega Gardevoir, Mega Heracross), it's far from a bad Pokemon. I would drop it to B, but not any lower, as it's still a decent Defog user, checks many important threats such as Landorus, Mega Scizor, Excadrill, Latios, Latias (that lack Thunderbolt), Landorus-T, Talonflame, Dragonite, Garchomp, Gengar, Mega Alakazam, Breloom, and regular Gyarados, and has many useful support options, such as Taunt, Whirlwind, and Knock Off. It can even forgo Defog to run a set of Taunt / Toxic / Roost / (Foul Play / Knock Off), which is a decent stallbreaker that checks a unique array of Pokemon. Yeah it needs anti-SR support, but that's not really hard to provide and a must for most teams. It sucks being so reliant on SR being off the field though, because Mandi fails to deal with a lot of threats if SR is on the field, which makes it pretty match up reliant. If it can beat the opposing SR setter (Ferro, Lando-T, Garchomp, Tyranitar), that's nice, otherwise things are going to be a bit difficult for it.

Terrakion is a monster, all Lando-T sets are easy to wear down, and everything else can be beaten with very little previous damage. SD + dual STABs + filler is Terrakion's best set atm, and if you go with Sub, Slowbro has to bank on the 30% burn chance of Scald to not lose, which is quite a shitty position to be in. Terrakion is a very consistent wallbreaker from my experience, that helps soften up teams early game for my cleaners, or just toys with balanced and some stall teams. It's one of those Pokemon that is useful no matter the matchup you face.

Breloom should drop because all the MEvos that got popular recently fuck it up (Mega Zard Y, Mega Pinsir, Mega Gardevoir, Mega Heracross, Mega Medicham), including Pokemon that can anti-lead its Sash set, namely Fake Out Mega Medicham and Jolly Mega Heracross. SD + LO is really fun though, and wears down bulky Grass-types like a charm, so if people start catching up on this set (which is actually hard to wall and punishes switches) it may be worthy of A- again.

I haven't faced or used Kyu-B for a long time, so i don't really have an opinion about it, but i guess its lack of usage is an indication that it's not that good in this metagame.

I am ok with Lanturn for D, Electric-types are a pain in the ass for many teams, and Heal Bell support is also very nice for some teams, while as people have already mentioned, Lanturn's bulk is better than Rotom-W's.

I am ok with dropping Espeon because you guys seem to want this a lot, but i will be dropping Smeargle too, because the most relevant Smeargle set is the one used with Espeon, so the viability of those two is intertwined.

Expect an update soonish, until the end of the week more or less.
 
please don't move lando-i down lol it's like people are just using landorus as a stallbreaker when it's not only much more proficient at breaking all those shitty balanced teams/cores around ferro slowbro lando-t but also has a fantastic matchup against many prominent pokemon (p much 100% win vs hera/medi, one of the few mons on offense that can switch into hera, wins vs garde majority of the time which is underappreciated on offensive teams) ability to pick its counters and/or late game sweep effectively and earth power p much destroying everything thats not both bulky AND resistant to it. i mean jesus yes theres a few mons that stop it but seeing how latis are usually THE first switchin to it sniping one with knock off is usually the easiest thing in the world. absolutely nothing wants to take on landorus now that sdef gliscor is slowly dropping off again, and I'd argue that it's even more dangerous than ever before just because HP ice is a now a viable option instead of a shitty gimmick meaning it will see use often enough to worry any scor. yes, its speedtier is a bit lacking at times and yes it's forced out by stuff like keldeo but holy fuck lando-i probably has one of the best risk/reward or payout ratios ever as it can beat pretty much any pokemon in the game switching into it (whoever says that lando needs a bigger deal of prediction than say keldeo is being a hypocrite considering that its coverage moves aren't only very fucking strong but also not needed most of the time as earth power literally wrecks 95% of the grounded mons anyway when combned with another move, whether they resist it or not) and has just the right bulk and a passable speedtier to royally fuck up any balanced team. that sounds like something keldeo wishes it could do with there being so many "hard checks" aka mons that can take one hit to scout your move and then go out to something else whereas landorus just kills everything with earth power and only needs to hit your "counter" with knock off/hp ice once to take it out of the game completely fucking up not only your whole momentum but also probably your whole team should it come in again. while keldeo is probably the more consistent of the two, whenever I see landorus, that's probably the mon I'm more worried about because, like I said, it has huge payout for little cost and can just destroy every single mon in the game barring cresselia which is not only niche but also a huge commitment for you to make (i.e. means you can't use sand etc etc) making it even more niche. put it this way: pretty much every team has the tools needed to check keldeo in some way at least once or twice; even the most offensive of teams have avest azu or latios who, although they dont appreciate burn, can come in on anything to scout its moveset and can force it out. the same definitely can't be said about landorus who can destroy every single mon in the game not called cresselia and as such doesn't have any "safe" go-to switchins. if that together with its consistency, power and ability to run multiple sets (rp is pretty fucking underrated this meta) doesn't make it an S-Rank threat then maybe we should just remove the rank altogether because Landorus is definitely one of those mons who shape the meta with its mere presence and one of the few that does so much for so little cost.

quoting cbb again etc etc
 
Since I'm better off not making biased crazy nominations, i might as well go with one that hasn't really been talked about in this thread. I think that Thundurus-Therian is a good pokemon, with basically the same stats as Landorus T but its a special attacker. It is actually a decent pokemon in the meta right now (if you use it right. I run Choice Scarf to check Lando T and other 4x weak to Ice type mons) and although it suffers some flaws, I think there are a lot of pros.

Anyways, Lets talk about the pros and cons of Thundurus T

Pros:
-145 Special Attack is easy to work with.
-Decent movepool, i sometimes have trouble picking my fourth move with all the options.
-101 speed isn't too good but passes a huge speed tier.
-Since most players (as i have saw) don't really play Thundurus T, you can surprise them with Scarf sets and even others.
-Has a nice ability that helps with Electric types. Obviously not as good as Prankster, but still not as bad as Keldeos ability.
-Good move versatility. You can really play around with it.
-looks epic
-
A great revenge killer
Cons:

-It has one of the worst defenses I've ever seen
-wont be switching in to anything.
-Weak to rocks (i find this important because being weak to rocks is a huge hinderance to me.)
-Not that hard to check/counter (Heatran likes soaking up HP ice and throws in an Overheat and bye bye Thundurus T)
-101 speed is sub par at most cases.


In my opinion, Thundurus T may not have changed at all after the past 2 months, but after using it a few times i can see its a bit underrated, because Thundurus I is the better choice. Before you say Thundurus is better, they run different roles. It also hurts a good amount of the meta, like Gliscor, Landorus T, Dragonite, Skarmory, Talonflame, Charizard Y, etc. Basically, many flying, water, Ground, and Dragon probably want to switch out if Thundurus T is out. It can also make momentum with Volt Switch. Its a frail special sweeper, but it does not require much support, maybe Screens, but thats it.

Looking at the C+ ranking, I think Thundurus T could fit in with things like Sylveon,Smeargle,Shuckle,Infernape,Ditto,Espeon, and others. I think Thundurus T would look cool in C+, but thats what i think, you might have a different opinion on that.
 
Cons:
-It has one of the worst defenses I've ever seen
-wont be switching in to anything.
Err, it literally has the exact same bulk as Thundurus-I, which is in S Rank ?_? Plus, it doesn't matter much when it's not used to sponge hits lol, Alakazam has piss-poor Defenses but this isn't really a valid argument. Switching into things isn't exactly a large priority so I don't know why you bring this up.
-Weak to rocks (i find this important because being weak to rocks is a huge hinderance to me.)
Ehh, this argument's been used so many times...
-Not that hard to check/counter (Heatran likes soaking up HP ice and throws in an Overheat and bye bye Thundurus T)
Ummmmmmm Focus Blast 2HKOes regardless and OHKOes at +2, and honestly why would you even bring up Heatran or Overheat, of course Overheat will do a shitton. Heatran isn't even near a check to Thundurus-T. Also, why would a Thundurus-T EVER use Hidden Power Ice versus a Heatran anyways ?_?
-101 speed is sub par at most cases.
Landorus-I has 101 Speed ?_? And it's actually really good for outspeeding the super crowded base 100 tier and makes it a great Scarfer for this.

I really don't understand how any of these so-called 'cons' are actually cons? At least with those arguments I mean n_n.
 
Man, people are really downplaying how bad it is to lose to the Lati twins right now. The fact that they are both solid checks to Landorus-I IMO should be the main argument for dropping it down. Let's face it, if an offensive team isn't running Latias or Latias, it's probably offensive enough to the point where Lando is going to have a really hard time doing much against it anyway. And yeah, you can Knock Off, but a) that doesn't actually OHKO Latios, and even Latias takes it after rocks, sure it doesn't take it well but it takes it, which means Lando-I has to switch out or risk facing massive damage to the point where it's really easy to revenge kill afterwards (heck you even have a very good chance to OHKO after rocks even w/ LO knocked off assuming the standard 184 SpA spread on Latias and a naive nature and 10% LO damage on Lando) and b) the Lati switchin may be really predictable, but by extension, so is Knock Off. For that reason Knock Off is not a safe move to use at all, since the opponent can predict it and send in something else that can take one Earth Power like Keldeo (yes, I know Knock Off cripples it and it still takes huge damage from Earth Power but you still threaten an OHKO on Lando-I with Scald even specsless, and I know Psychic OHKOs Keldeo but you have to be a prediction god to predict Keldeo as opposed to the Lati to come in in that scenario) so if you knock off and that happens you've literally just wasted a turn, and now Lando-I is going to have to switch out without having done anything of note besides remove one item and will have one hell of a hard time coming back in since it basically loses to 60-80% of your average offensive team 1v1 (the last 40-20% being the stallbreaker and maybe the rock setter/Magnezone if included).

So yeah, Lando-I tends to really struggle vs offense. And sure, it's great vs balance (at least balance that doesn't run a Lati), but so are all 5 mega wallbreakers (MMedi, MHera, MGarde, MPinsir, and YZard), if anything even more so because their main STABs are far more spammable and don't have an omnipresent immunity, they have more power backing them up (with the exception of MGarde who, fun fact, hits exactly as hard as Lando-I - do the calcs if you don't believe me), and are just way harder to switch into in general. 2 of these have lesser bulk which compromises their ability to abuse defensive Pokemon as well as their ability to do anything vs offense (though MGarde has one guaranteed switchin vs offense under the form of Latis which is nice), but the other 2 have either comparable or higher bulk (hello Mega-Heracross) and, much like Lando-I, have pretty damn good defensive typings to back up that bulk too. In terms of prowess vs offense+ability to make defensive teams cry, I really don't see Lando-I as superior to MPinsir, or even MHera or YZard come think of it. I guess an argument can be made for versatility, but at the end of the day it's really just one move (and if you run anything other than Knock Off, then you're going to have a really hard time vs offense vs offense since Latis just laugh at you)
 
Last edited:
Err, it literally has the exact same bulk as Thundurus-I, which is in S Rank ?_? Plus, it doesn't matter much when it's not used to sponge hits lol, Alakazam has piss-poor Defenses but this isn't really a valid argument. Switching into things isn't exactly a large priority so I don't know why you bring this up.

Ehh, this argument's been used so many times...

Ummmmmmm Focus Blast 2HKOes regardless and OHKOes at +2, and honestly why would you even bring up Heatran or Overheat, of course Overheat will do a shitton. Heatran isn't even near a check to Thundurus-T. Also, why would a Thundurus-T EVER use Hidden Power Ice versus a Heatran anyways ?_?

Landorus-I has 101 Speed ?_? And it's actually really good for outspeeding the super crowded base 100 tier and makes it a great Scarfer for this.

I really don't understand how any of these so-called 'cons' are actually cons? At least with those arguments I mean n_n.
i don't get what your trying to tell me
Are you saying that Thundurus T should move up?
Cause by the looks of it it is like its counterpart?
 
Man, people are really downplaying how bad it is to lose to Latis right now. The fact that the Lati twins are both solid checks to Landorus-I IMO should be the main argument for dropping it down. Let's face it, if an offensive team isn't running Latias or Latias, it's probably offensive enough to the point where Lando is going to have a really hard time doing much against it anyway. And yeah, you can Knock Off, but a) that doesn't actually OHKO Latios, and even Latias takes it after rocks, sure it doesn't take it well but it takes it, which means Lando-I has to switch out or risk facing massive damage to the point where it's really easy to revenge kill afterwards (heck you even have a very good chance to OHKO after rocks even w/ LO knocked off assuming the standard 184 SpA spread on Latias and a naive nature and 10% LO damage on Lando) and b) the Lati switchin may be really predictable, but by extension, so is Knock Off. For that reason Knock Off is not a safe move to use at all, since the opponent can predict it and send in something else that can take one Earth Power like Keldeo (yes, I know Knock Off cripples it and it still takes huge damage from Earth Power but you still threaten an OHKO on Lando-I with Scald even specsless, and I know Psychic OHKOs Keldeo but you have to be a prediction god to predict Keldeo as opposed to the Lati to come in in that scenario) so if you knock off and that happens you've literally just wasted a turn, and now Lando-I is going to have to switch out without having done anything of note besides remove one item and will have one hell of a hard time coming back in since it basically loses to 60-80% of your average offensive team 1v1 (the last 40-20% being the stallbreaker and maybe the rock setter/Magnezone if included).

So yeah, Lando-I tends to really struggle vs offense. And sure, it's great vs balance, but so are all 5 mega wallbreakers (MMedi, MHera, MGarde, MPinsir, and YZard), if anything even more so because their main STABs are far more spammable and don't have an omnipresent immunity, they have more power backing them up (with the exception of MGarde who, fun fact, hits exactly as hard as Lando-I - do the calcs if you don't believe me), and are just way harder to switch into in general. 2 of these have lesser bulk which compromises their ability to abuse defensive Pokemon as well as their ability to do anything vs offense (though MGarde has one guaranteed switchin vs offense under the form of Latis which is nice), but the other 2 have either comparable or higher bulk (hello Mega-Heracross) and, much like Lando-I, have pretty damn good defensive typings to back up that bulk too. In terms of prowess vs offense+ability to make defensive teams cry, I really don't see Lando-I as superior to MPinsir, or even MHera or YZard come think of it. I guess an argument can be made for versatility, but at the end of the day it's really just one move (and if you run anything other than Knock Off, then you're pretty much useless vs offense since Latis just laugh at you)
People need to run U-turn on Lando-I more. It lets you bring in a Pursuit trapper easy and you force so many switches you're practically a mini-Genesect. If you're running Bisharp as your Pursuit trapper (and you should because Bisharp is god) you can afford to forgo Knock Off and still screw over all of your checks/counters like the Latis.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top