Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V3) (Rank changes are over until ORAS)

[Alfalfa]

Can we just drop Conkeldurr down to C+ maybe even C while we're on this discussion? Offensive teams kind of just pick at Conkeldurr little by little and its biggest pro is only taking off items with Knock Off while in most cases it fails to sustain itself long enough with Drain Punch against actual good builds and players. I mean, within the past posts the cons have been pretty much highlighted more or less. Has to choose what it can actually fight against while getting walled or beaten against what it misses out on. Sure you can use the argument that it has a bit of versatility but its versatility is garbage when you consider that its strongest attack off of the standard set, not factoring in STAB and what not, is a base 75 move that can only some what heal you for a generally short duration of time before it loses it again. Also like alexwolf mentioned Conkeldurr only deters status users a bit and in most cases any average player with a brain will know not to just throw status willingly with Conk still up, so it only gets Guts activated in very occasional situations. Pivoting ability is kind of shit cause it does so only a couple of times and succumbs to repeated damage or hazards, unlike something such as Rotom-W which can at least recover with Pain Split if need be. Conk has really fallen from grace and every team has an answer for it by default without even trying.

Upon reading this post, I was a bit reluctant to drop Conk, but now that I think about it, I am going to side with you on this one. Conkeldurr has fallen from grace, and it needs to drop. What also should drop from B- to C+ is:

Gothitelle is really hard to fit onto a team, and while it does well against teams with defensive Pokemon on them, it is flat out useless against faster-paced offensive teams (aka offense that is not bulky offense). While it rips stall apart, being almost complete dead weight against most offensive teams essentially means Gothitelle is only going to fit onto a select few teams, and if Conkeldurr is going to drop, so should Gothitelle. Conkeldurr and Gothitelle for C+ Rank.

 

[Celticpride]

Time to steer this discussion back on track:
Hippowdon: A- ---> B+ It's got a lot of positive traits. Options for self-recovery, Rocks, phazing and decent coverage (Ice Fang, Stone Edge) means it's not a passive POS unlike some other things. Univested Earthquake spam does have some uses as well. The reason I support it dropping basically comes down it not excelling at anything anymore. It doesn't have the typing (Skarm), ability to burn or pass wishes (Alomomola), ability to punish physical attackers for touching it (Ferro), or an outstanding ability (Quagsire). I can't really think of much of anything that makes me say "wow, Hippo walls that to hell and back better than anything." Even on the more offensive/balanced front (which it's stats suggest it can pull off if done right), Chesnaught and Rhyperior function better in the "tanks that emergency check most of the physical meta" category. Just doesn't stand out from the crowd anymore.

Garchomp (Mega): B ---> B- Why use this when you can use Mega Heracross or Mega Medicham instead? It is a good wallbreaker in theory, but there are a few things that are hold it back. One, regular Garchomp is still a force, and it's lead and Scarf sets are both still very good. LeadChomp+Mega Hera/Medi/Gard is a better combo than the alternative of other lead+Mega Garchomp imo. Two, the other Mega Wallbreakers are virtually self-sufficient with regards to their abilities and full potential. Mega Hera has the movepool to abuse Skill Link to its fullest, Mega Medi gets double attack regardless of the conditions, Mega Gard's Hyper Voice is always powered-up, and Char-Y creates its own Sun support, allowing it to near constantly abuse powerful Fire Blasts and instant Sloarbeams. Mega Chomp either needs manual Sand support (lol) or a Hippo/TTar handcuff to reach its full potential. After looking through some damage calcs, it really does need that powered up Earthquake and Stone Edge to reach that next level of unstoppable. Too much support (comparatively speaking) and too many other quality options really make it less viable.

Random footnote: Adamant SD Mega Garchomp with 252+ Attack/252 Speed is faster and stronger than Jolly 252 Attack/252+ Speed SD Mega Heracross. Not like that changes anything, but Garchomp's base stats are not the reason it should be dropping, even with a decrease in speed upon Mega-evolving.

Bisharp: A ---> A+ Benefits a ton in the current meta. Rise of Lando-T and Mega Manectric usage is a big plus for it. As an avid VoltTurn user, Bish is a big pain in the side for the LandoTric core (and also the reason Cobalion should be on the list :P) as well as some other common VoltTurners, specifically Staraptor. DeoSharp is long dead, but a hazard stacking lead (think Azelf or Shuckle) and Bisharp can still be a good pair for hyper offense teams. It's also got Knock Off and just enough speed to give most stall teams trouble and at least weaken some defensive cores. STAB Pursuit is also clutch in this meta with the increase in Psychic type useability, specifically the Lati twins. Even in a match where it doesn't have something it matches up well with (but seriously, a match without Lando-T, either Lati@s or Chansey?) spamming Sucker Punch and Knock Off is always a good idea and allows it to make a mark. A move back to A+ is needed, especially with the recent Latios promotion. Before someone says it, yes Latios can get past Bish with HP Fighting, but there are some downright nasty 50/50s involved between Pursuit and Sucker Punch.

 

[hobreezy]

I support Bisharp moving up to A+.
While Bisharp is highly regarded for being a pursuit trapper and as a defog deterrent, Bisharp is an incredibly usefull late game sweeper. I play a very offensive playstyle and I usually find that I do not need to send him in early to mid game because him just being in my party keeps opponents from defogging. In the late game, Bisharp is easy to switch in, forcing the opponent to switch out where Bisharp can boost with SD and then wreck all of the weakened mons on the opponents team. Sometimes Bisharp doesn't even need to boost to finish off the opponents team. Also, I find that the increase in usage of scarf Lando-T and somewhat MegaMane actally helps Bisharp out. The defiant boost from intimidate allows Bisharp to OHKO with suckerpunch. While switching in either of these mons is really a stupid thing to do against bisharp, in the late game, the opponent is forced to because his counters are gone or were weak enough for bisharp to deal with.

I really agree with other people that the lower ranks really need to be redone. Here is my revamped list:

Title

C+
Empoleon
Gastrodon
Goodra
Gourgeist-Small
Houndoom (M)
Infernape
Magneton
Wobbuffet
C
Absol (M)
Alakazam
Espeon
Klefki
Lanturn
Mienshao
Porygon2
Shuckle
Thundurus-T
Tangrowth
C-
Aggron (M)
Blastoise (M)
Bronzong
Ditto
Hydreigon
Noivern
Rotom-H
Slowking
Tornadus
Toxicroak
D
Blissy
Chandelure
Cobalion
Cofagrigus
Exploud
Granbull
Jellicent
Haxorus
Heracross
Mantine
Meloetta
Metagross
Salamance
Smeargle
Tenticruel
Volcarona
[/hide ]
I ranked these mons based on my experience and from commentary I've seen about from members on this thread. Also I feel that the lower ranked mons should be there so that new players can understand what mons they could possibly encounter. Since I'm not top of the latter (I usually play in the 1500s) I probably see more of the low ranking mons than other people do. And by all mea

 

[AM]

I don't really think the lower ranks need a huge revamp like some have suggested, I think people just need to be more aware and get some discussion going on some of the lower stuff that is actually useful, or has become less useful/always worthless, in OU. Like as far as the higher ranked stuff goes, we know they're a threat, that's why they are higher and we spend pages upon pages discussing them and the obvious stuff they do. The D rank stuff should be cut in half from what I'm looking at, like Seismitoad lol, while some C- stuff could go down so there is at least some sort of quality standard for the lower ranks.

 

[Alfalfa]

I support Bisharp moving up to A+.
While Bisharp is highly regarded for being a pursuit trapper and as a defog deterrent, Bisharp is an incredibly usefull late game sweeper. I play a very offensive playstyle and I usually find that I do not need to send him in early to mid game because him just being in my party keeps opponents from defogging. In the late game, Bisharp is easy to switch in, forcing the opponent to switch out where Bisharp can boost with SD and then wreck all of the weakened mons on the opponents team. Sometimes Bisharp doesn't even need to boost to finish off the opponents team. Also, I find that the increase in usage of scarf Lando-T and somewhat MegaMane actally helps Bisharp out. The defiant boost from intimidate allows Bisharp to OHKO with suckerpunch. While switching in either of these mons is really a stupid thing to do against bisharp, in the late game, the opponent is forced to because his counters are gone or were weak enough for bisharp to deal with.

I really agree with other people that the lower ranks really need to be redone. Here is my revamped list:

Title

C+
Empoleon
Gastrodon
Goodra
Gourgeist-Small
Houndoom (M)
Infernape
Magneton
Wobbuffet
C
Absol (M)
Alakazam
Espeon
Klefki
Lanturn
Mienshao
Porygon2
Shuckle
Thundurus-T
Tangrowth
C-
Aggron (M)
Blastoise (M)
Bronzong
Ditto
Hydreigon
Noivern
Rotom-H
Slowking
Tornadus
Toxicroak
D
Blissy
Chandelure
Cobalion
Cofagrigus
Exploud
Granbull
Jellicent
Haxorus
Heracross
Mantine
Meloetta
Metagross
Salamance
Smeargle
Tenticruel
Volcarona
[/hide ]
I ranked these mons based on my experience and from commentary I've seen about from members on this thread. Also I feel that the lower ranked mons should be there so that new players can understand what mons they could possibly encounter. Since I'm not top of the latter (I usually play in the 1500s) I probably see more of the low ranking mons than other people do. And by all mea

Chandelure fits fine in C Rank, it is a Choice Scarf user with a couple of notable advantages over Heatran, such as being able to handle Zard Y very reliably, having a spammable secondary Ghost STAB, etc.

To back Volcarona for D Rank, I would have to test it again and see if it is truly worthy to drop to D Rank. Otherwise, I would just keep it in C.

Mantine should be flat out unranked, if you need reasoning, let me bring back Jukain's post a few days ago:

.....Mantine is bad. Nog was originally a huge proponent of it, but when we were dealing with the analysis, we both decided it wasn't worth giving an analysis at that point. And there's a reason for that. Mantine is so passive it hurts and has no reliable recovery. It deals with a few mons (Keldeo, Landorus primarily) but there's a Pokemon called Gyarados that does this too. It can Defog, but this is not enough of a niche to give a Pokemon a rank when there are much, much better defensive Water-type options, and using Mantine is wasting your bulky Water slot.

Same with Granbull, it really is outclassed at its ability to check MHera and MMedi by Doublade, who is much more efficient at checking them, and checks a whole lot more. Granbull for Unranked.

Mega Aggron and Mega Blastoise to C- Rank would make sense to me, but I would ask other people to discuss those changes first. Definitely Mega Aggron to C- rank, Mega Blastoise is not bad, but it suffers so much opportunity cost due to taking up a Mega Slot, and usually not being worth it.

 

[Flamer]

ok i feel the whole "reranking all of C and D" is going a bit too far. The ranks there are not for the most part accurate but the thing is in a month or so the entire meta will be turned on its head, changing the viabilities of many mons, especially those in the lower ranks. If we are going to reorganise the ranks, that would be the time, when we need to revise the utility of p much all mons in the meta. Please hold off with the torches and pichforks until then.

 

[TeeEffEll]

Speaking into the Mag chat, the reason why it's A rank is because the meta HASNT adapted to it yet, because Ferro can't run Shed Shell viably and Scizor can't do shit for switching out.

Anyways, I know this will be rejected a lot, but I'm nominating Swampert for D. It's move pool is so anti meta, bar the lack of dark type moves, and it's decent bulk and attack can lead it to having multiple sets of its choice. It's an amazing mon in this meta with the lack of Grass types and the interest in Dragon and Ground types. It has Stealth Rocks, too. It also has Roar, and LOTS of coverage. Did I also mention it basically counters MegaMan unless it runs HP Grass? I think the MMan part itself should bring it to D.

Also, the lower ranks do not need a revamp, just an adjustment. The viability ranks aren't perfect as the meta changes overnight.

 

[Flamer]

Speaking into the Mag chat, the reason why it's A rank is because the meta HASNT adapted to it yet, because Ferro can't run Shed Shell viably and Scizor can't do shit for switching out.

Anyways, I know this will be rejected a lot, but I'm nominating Swampert for D. It's move pool is so anti meta, bar the lack of dark type moves, and it's decent bulk and attack can lead it to having multiple sets of its choice. It's an amazing mon in this meta with the lack of Grass types and the interest in Dragon and Ground types. It has Stealth Rocks, too. It also has Roar, and LOTS of coverage. Did I also mention it basically counters MegaMan unless it runs HP Grass? I think the MMan part itself should bring it to D.

I swear to god someone just nominated this a day ago. I get you probably love swampert and youve picked mudkip since 2004 and it was the first mon you ever got to lvl100 but thing is, Swampert isn't that good. You say its Anti-meta but really, every team has some kind of grass coverage, such as Ferro, Mvenu, Ninja ect, who are all defining forces in the meta and its commonly run move combo has a lot of resists, good luck fitting coverage on a mon that needs SR and Roar to not be complete trash. The other part is why the hell would I use this over Quagsire, who has slightly less bulk in exchange for immunity to stat boosts and reliable recovery. Wait until ORAS, where Mpert will probably tear peoples anuses apart, until then, no rank for swampert.

 

[Celticpride]

Speaking into the Mag chat, the reason why it's A rank is because the meta HASNT adapted to it yet, because Ferro can't run Shed Shell viably and Scizor can't do shit for switching out.

Anyways, I know this will be rejected a lot, but I'm nominating Swampert for D. It's move pool is so anti meta, bar the lack of dark type moves, and it's decent bulk and attack can lead it to having multiple sets of its choice. It's an amazing mon in this meta with the lack of Grass types and the interest in Dragon and Ground types. It has Stealth Rocks, too. It also has Roar, and LOTS of coverage. Did I also mention it basically counters MegaMan unless it runs HP Grass? I think the MMan part itself should bring it to D.

Quag and Gastro have the same typing and are overall more useful defensively. And if you're really intent on using something with phazing, Rocks, and can stop MegaMan, use Rhyperior or SDef Hippo. No rank for Swampert (second day in a row?)

 

[TeeEffEll]

I swear to god someone just nominated this a day ago. I get you probably love swampert and youve picked mudkip since 2004 and it was the first mon you ever got to lvl100 but thing is, Swampert isn't that good. You say its Anti-meta but really, every team has some kind of grass coverage, such as Ferro, Mvenu, Ninja ect, who are all defining forces in the meta and its commonly run move combo has a lot of resists, good luck fitting coverage on a mon that needs SR and Roar to not be complete trash. The other part is why the hell would I use this over Quagsire, who has slightly less bulk in exchange for immunity to stat boosts and reliable recovery. Wait until ORAS, where Mpert will probably tear peoples anuses apart, until then, no rank for swampert.

But it has plenty of CB sets,,,
There are few pokemon that resist Swampert in this meta, and it's... Bulky grass types? There are literally around 3 counters to Swampert in this meta, and while that seems like a lot, two of the three were seeing decreased usage cause of Zone. Those being Ferro and (insert bulky steel type, so Scizor). But even then Swamperts decent attack will probably 2HKO Ferro or maybe OHKO with CB with Superpower. Also have you recently used Swampert cause it has plenty of sets that don't contribute to Roar and SR, while they may not be common, they are used. Seriously, quagmire doesn't do the same thing, therefore it only outclasses it type wise, and can Quagsire take on most pokemon in this meta? That's why it has a decreased rank. Seriously, Swampert has it's unique niche of having a great typing while being somewhat anti meta, learning a variety of hurtful moves to the meta. Also, have fun doing any decent damage with Quagsire,,,

 

[Rosen]

i'mma post more on this later but i'm feelin edgy atm so here's my proposal...

Clefable from A+ -> S

this thing is so fucking good it's insane. it's just so fuckin easy to slap on teams and perform well, its versatility is unreal. it has two of the best abilities for defensive mons in unaware and magic guard, its movepool is versatility is next to unmatched, and it has that sexy sexy mono-fairy typing. real talk tho what other individual mon has access to moves to stealth rock, heal bell, wish, knock off, two forms of reliable recovery, calm mind, stored power, twave, great coverage moves etc etc AND the stats to back it up... (sry wigglytuff)

but cha it has so many viable sets that check so much shit, standard lefties cm magic guard alone checks huge threats like thundy, ninja, the latis, nd more, and that's just w/ moonblast! flamethrower/fb, knock off, stored power... depending on which one u want clefs normal checks/counters get brought to their knees. even sdef tran loses to the knock off set, w/out lefties whatchu gon do?

and that's just one set, u still got shit like lo magic guard cm sweeper, unaware cm sweeper, unaware cleric nd these are just broad terms to describe cookie-cutter sets that each have a clusterfuck of usable subsets to fuck over clef's typical checks nd counters. i guess it's arguable but i can't think of a mon that is threatening to so many playstyles by itself (or fits on so many so well).

tl;dr clef is so stupidly versatile, it easily fits onto almost any team archetype extremely easily (bar ho), it needs literally no support while providing a shitton in return, it easily checks many of the most threatning mons in the tier, blahblahblah i'd like to see clefable in S pls

bringin this back up

it spurred surprisingly little discussion, but judging by the amount of likes i'm not the only one who thinks this... cmon clefable for S lezzgo

in other areas, goth is bad and conk is worse. there are many better ways to stallbreak and wallbreak then either of those two, they both should drop imo.

also can we not continue with the swampert thing, swampert is dicks in ou, wait until oras... then the likely suspect test soon to follow. mhm

 

[AM]

bringin this back up

it spurred surprisingly little discussion, but judging by the amount of likes i'm not the only one who thinks this... cmon clefable for S lezzgo

in other areas, goth is bad and conk is worse. there are many better ways to stallbreak and wallbreak then either of those two, they both should drop imo.

also can we not continue with the swampert thing, swampert is dicks in ou, wait until oras... then the likely suspect test soon to follow. mhm

Oh yeah I was going to respond to your post earlier but my connection was garbage on my phone, and well, phone messages suck to. Anyways.

This one I'm on the fence about. It's really good, and I mean in the way that people don't even use half the stuff that is underrated like Unaware CM, Twave Clefable, Offensive LO which is pretty trolly, and all the stuff you mentioned. My only concern is that from a teambuilding perspective it's pretty easy to slap on a team but then you have to take into account its issues with speed and how it kind of needs to break down some stronger, faster threats to actually get it going. The way I look at S rank is that the S rank mons can just put in work straight from the get go. A+ I feel needs a general amount of support to justify their ranks but tbh Clefable is kind of on the boundary of A+ and S rank considering how versatile it is. It's definitely S rank from a team building perspective imo but practically I feel it's an A+ mon.

 

[TeeEffEll]

I'm kinda on the edge with Clef because it's not blue so it shouldn't be s. Lol jk, in all seriousness Clef is amazing in this meta but I think it could do more. It's kinda limited to being a supporter mon, as it's offensive stats are shit. Notice how it's Offensive sets are losing usage and it's Twave sets and such are gaining. And, if you see all of S rank, they are blu... I mean they are all offensive bar Latios with Defog, but even then it runs Defog and 3 attacks. I just think Clefablr can be ranked S for support but it's definetly not S for anything else, which is keeping me off the fence. Usually S ranks can intertwine offense and support but Clef needs support to attack offensively.

 

[alexwolf]

Imo, Clefable has too many great and easy to slap on teams checks and counters to be S rank, Pokemon that she can't get rid of on herself. Gengar, SpD Gliscor, Taunt Heatran, Mew, bulky DD Roost Mega Charizard X, Talonflame, offensive Mega Venusaur, Jirachi, and Victini are all counters to most Clefable sets and are all great Pokemon in this metagame. Then, you have all the offensive Steel-types that fear Flamethrower but are otherwise excellent checks, such as Bisharp, Mega Scizor, Magnezone, and Excadrill, which means that most teams can at least check Clefable without too much thinking or specific preparation. Of course, this doesn't change the defensive utility that Clefable provides for a team, namely being able to wall many top tier threats and act as a solid SR setter, or her ability to act as a great sweeper with the proper support, but her defensive utility is not enough to put it in S rank, and she requires too much support to sweep consistently to be in S rank too.

Clefable may have been worthy of S rank a few months before, but with Pokemon such as Jirachi, Victini, Gengar, and Mew being more popular than ever, she is definitely not worthy of S rank anymore.

 

[Celticpride]

I really like Clef, it's so damn easy to fit onto teams and it's by far the most versatile Pokemon out there. Great abilities and typing are also pluses for it. The only thing I don't like about Clef is it's base stats are low. Even with investment, it's stats underwhelm unboosted. I think there is definitely an argument for moving it up to S because it excels so much in the versatility and ease of fitting onto teams categories.

 

[bb skarm]

I'm sorry if I happen to be kinda out there (with all this clef talk, who I think should move to S because of CM MG, but I'll keep that to myself), but I have a nomination of my own I'd like to make. It may be a bit controversial, but eh, it's better than a nomination for avalugg:

B- --> B

Being probably one of the most avid users of Ampharos in actual existence, I have to say, it should probably go rise up just a rank. Mega Ampharos perfectly fits the role as a team's Bulky Electric-type, and to an extent, the team's check to BirdSpam, and even with no investment, Mega Ampharos's Special Attack stat is incredibly high, allowing it to do the classic 'take a hit and retaliate' playstyle. RestTalk / Specially Defensive / Physically Defensive is absolutely crazy on this thing. In fact, Mega Ampharos is so bulky, is only 2HKOd by LO Greninja's Ice Beam, with each hit capping at about 67% damage. Mega Ampharos's awesome slow Volt Switches are also great for keeping momentum and getting good match ups. Mega Ampharos also makes for a pretty good check to Specs Keldeo (takes only half damage from SS iirc) and is plenty bulky enough with the Specially Defensive (its best set imo) to take hits and retaliate. Against Latios and Latias, Mega Ampharos at full health has a very high chance to survive Draco Meteor, use Rest, and take advantage of the Special Attack drop (or just hit it hard with Dragon Pulse). Earlier in this paragraph, I mentioned how Mega Ampharos is a good check to BirdSpam, so I suppose I'll get to that. Talonflame is literally obliterated by Thunderbolt, and pretty much does jack shit with either of its STABs. Mega Ampharos isn't at all scared of Mega Pinsir, and is a decent check to it if not just a counter (those lacking Earthquake, but they only carried it for Aegislash, and most carry Close Combat now). Of course, if Mega Pinsir has already set up, Mega Ampharos will not be OHKOed, but it will sustain decent damage. Mega Ampharos is just an incredibly bulky Pokemon with a good defensive typing. Even super effective attacks, such as HP Ice from Mega Manectric or Thundurus, 4HKO it.

Not only does Mega Ampharos's insanely amazing Defensive set give it an awesome role in the metagame, and I don't know how many of you have used this, but the offensive Agility set it can run is pretty much one of the scariest things ever if your team is out of counters to Mega Ampharos. Mega Ampharos, with a Timid nature, after an Agility, will outspeed everything up to Timid Greninja, which is pretty much the entire metagame bar scarfers. Mega Ampharos, as I've said about a gazillion times, has such a high Special Attack stat and good coverage, that even without investment, it basically just hits everything that doesn't resist its attacks for at least half damage. Mega Ampharos is also not susceptible to priority as much as other Pokemon, meaning its sweeping capabilities are not very held back (iirc, Bisharp's LO Sucker Punch does just 49% max, while Mega Ampharos swiftly OHKOes with T-Bolt or Focus Miss).

Anyways, most of Ampharos's merit is in its bulkier set, but Agility does have its uses as well. I really do think that with everything in mind, Mega Ampharos should move to B rank. Like I said, this may be a bit controversial, but I don't expect any nomination here goes clean.​

 

[Gloating]

What do you guys think of Mew possibly going to S? I was testing an SD set with Drain Punch, Zen Headbutt and Knock off with good success. Mew already forces a lot of switches which gives it a free turn of set up and nobody sees it coming. +2 Mew OHKO's Slowbro after SR with Knock Off and destroys Heatran with Drain Punch as well as OHKOing Mega Venusaur and a bunch of other things. Magnezone can get rid of Scizor and Skarmory that wall this Mew. It's not popular though I'm probably the only one that have used it but Mew has a lot of untapped potential.. There's also the Tailwind SR set and NP set and I've been swept by a set consisting of Calm Mind, WoW and Psyshock which is pretty difficult to take down too. Then there's it's main set which is fucking amazing seriously, Mew can stay in on like 90% of the whole meta which is why it's hard to take down a well played Mew.

 

[theV8man]

What do you guys think of Mew possibly going to S? I was testing an SD set with Drain Punch, Zen Headbutt and Knock off with good success. Mew already forces a lot of switches which gives it a free turn of set up and nobody sees it coming. +2 Mew OHKO's Slowbro after SR with Knock Off and destroys Heatran with Drain Punch as well as OHKOing Mega Venusaur and a bunch of other things. Magnezone can get rid of Scizor and Skarmory that wall this Mew. It's not popular though I'm probably the only one that have used it but Mew has a lot of untapped potential.. There's also the Tailwind SR set and NP set and I've been swept by a set consisting of Calm Mind, WoW and Psyshock which is pretty difficult to take down too. Then there's it's main set which is fucking amazing seriously, Mew can stay in on like 90% of the whole meta which is why it's hard to take down a well played Mew.

When it comes to versatility, the name of the game is definitely Mew. And while it has that crazy stall-breaking set, you can also use it for defog, SR, physical attacker as you mentioned, the possibilities are real good. Its stats only help to improve its situation. The only downside I can see to a Pokemon like Mew is honestly its typing. Psychic lets it do some things like check Mega Medi, but when you have Pokemon like Gengar experiencing a surge in popularity as well as a rise of Dark moves in general, Mew finds it real hard to switch in sometimes. I'd say that I'm on the fence about this guy going S rank, it could go either way for me at this point.

 

[Flamebot]

Rhyperior for B+

Now, I know rain has been increasing alot but this thing is a monster.

It is one of the best if not the best Flyspam counter in OU at the moment and even switching your flying type out can be dangerous because it hits so damn hard.

It's Pros
-Checks every single Flying type in the tier bar lol Skarmory
-Decent check to Volt turn teams
-Huge Physical bulk allowing it to take almost any physical hit that isn't 4x SE
-Has access to Stealth rocks
-Checks non flying Pokemon as well such as, Garchomp, Dragonite, Spdef Gliscor, Landorus, even Excadrill can OHKO this and dies to Earthquake and I'm sure there is more

It's cons
-Slow
-2 4X weaknesses
-Can be worn down easy without wish support
-Low Special defense
-Status bait


Anyways, I'm tired so I might post more about this tomorrow since all I did was list Pros and cons. I mostly wanted to start a cconversation about this thing, wether it should drop do to Rain becoming a huge part of the Meta, and Dangerous special attackers becoming higher ranking in viability , or if people think it's fine where it is, or if it should rise abit

 

[Sevifar]

The only downside I can see to a Pokemon like Mew is honestly its typing. Psychic lets it do some things like check Mega Medi, but when you have Pokemon like Gengar experiencing a surge in popularity as well as a rise of Dark moves in general, Mew finds it real hard to switch in sometimes. I'd say that I'm on the fence about this guy going S rank, it could go either way for me at this point.

Actually, I'd say it's typing helps more than hurts. Apart from everyone and their grandmother carrying Knock off, Bug/Ghost/Dark moves aren't common, since they are rarely run aside from STABs. And those who carry them are often physical attackers who are simply outsped and WoW-ed.

Don't wanna comment on its ranking though, I'm too out of touch to give an educated opinion.

 

[TheEnder]

Okay, seeing as how the metagame has changed quite a lot, with a lot of new trends and pokes on the rise i feel like posting here n_n this is probably gonna be a pretty long post of my opinions (which you may or may not agree with, feel free to dicuss them wiht me :D), so you're warned on that. Also shoutouts to Bloo and McMeghan for being awesome in general, and provoiding a fantastic format for this.

Rises

| A → A+ |
Offense has very few options when it comes to Stealth Rock users, especially Sash leads, as they have a few important criterias to fill. Firstly, they need to set Stealth Rocks reliably, but they also have to keep up momentum for the team. Garchomp is the go-to choice for most teams, almost to the point where it has become a stample on offensively orientated teams, and for a good reason. Both SD + Lum Berry and SD + Focus Sash function great at the moment, and especially the former, with status inducers like Mew, Rotom-W and Slowbro being all over the place. With balance archetypes being the most common playstyle in the current metagame, Garchomp does a great job at wallbreaking early game due to a lot of opportunities to get a free SD, in addition to setting rocks. All in all I feel like a raise is deserved, as it has the edge over many other Pokemon currently sitting in A.

| A+ → S |
Although this is a change many of you won't agree with, I think Lanodrus-T should rise to S. This is because its Scarf set, in my opinion, is the one best Pokemon in the current metagame. It provoides an immense amount of momentum, as it constantly forces switches and can abuse them with U-Turn. It is also one of those Pokemon you can slap on any team, and it will work out becuase it has close to no drawbacks. Versus offensive teams, it is almost impossible to switch into, and they few "reliable" switchins like Mega Venusaur get U-Turn'ed on. In many cases Lando-T is also capable of checking enormous offensive threats like DD Mega Charizard X and Life Orb Excadrill, which is quite the feat for an offensive pivot. Against more defensively baised teams, the aforementioned momentum it provoides can be game-changing. Lately, counters to Lando-T, such as Skarmory and Defensive Mega Scizor have seen a lot less usage, which has been a change for the better for Landorus-T. In addition to the Scarf set, the defensive set is still very good as it checks a major portion of the physically orientated threats in the meta, and the rare Double Dance is still very hard to deal with for balanced teams. This creates the "unpredictability" element some S rank Pokemon rely on to function, which is great for Lando-T. Yes, I know a S rank is prestigeous, but I think Landorus-T has so many great qualties and so few downfalls it deserves the spot.

| A → A+ |
In a metagame where Psychic-types such as Lati@s and Mew and Intimidate users like Lanorus-T and Mega Manetric is on every other team, Bisharp has come back to shine once again. All of you know what it does, dishing out powerful Knock Offs and pressuring Defog users. The thing that has changed is that teams are much more unprepared for it at the moment, as Skarmory and Quagsire are getting less and less common. Lati@s have also gone back to using Draco Meteor | Psyshock / Surf, which means Bisharp is a much safer switch-in than it was when HP Fighting was common. While Keldeo and bulky variants of Charizard and Scizor are still pretty common, Bisharp has a lot of fun versus most balanced teams. Jolly Bisharp also outspeeds a lot of defensive threats that cannot really afford running enough Speed to creep it, like Zapdos and Defensive Landorus-T, which makes it much more dangerous. All in all the metagame shift has been in Bisharp's favour, and I think it deserves to rise.

| A → A+ |
I didn't agree with Ferrothorn dropping when Magnezone gained popularity, simply becuase it still managed to function as the switchin to the things it's supposed to switch into (especially eraly game), such as Azumarill, Gyarados, Mega Gardevoir and Greninja. Now that Mag is already starting to get uncommon, Ferrothorn kind of is the go-to Steel-type for most balanced and offensive teams, becuase it checks that bunch of threats i just listed, and they are otherwise very hard to deal with. While it is said to give away a lot of free turns, it can actually be very hard to switch into for offensive teams. Against balance and stall it sets a lot of pressure by stacking Spikes, which has become popular amongst a lot of top players (see OLT, where Spikes Greninja and Ferrothorn has been used). I think that its great qualities outweigh the drawbacks they come with, and that moving it back to A+ would be reasonable.

| B+ → A- |
Starmie is one of the few reliable and viable hazard removers for Stall and Semi-Stall at the moment. I know top players like Tesung and ben gay have used it's Reflect Type set for their stall teams. In addition to spinning, it is the best switchin to Keldeo available, becuase of a fast Recover and Natural Cure. Apart from Lati@s it cannot be Pursuit-trapped by Bisharp and non-Scarf Tyranitar either, because it uses Reflect Type to resist the hit, before switching out. Like other bulky Water-types it is great at spreading burns, and it is a pain to switch into for most offensive teams. I don't have excessive knowlegde about it, so I can't really discuss it as much as I would like to, so I'll leave a rise up for discussion. :)

Drops

| A- → B+ or B |
As much as I love Hippowdon, I think this change should have happened a long time ago. Let's face it guys, it is outclassed in almost every way, and it has a hard time doing the few things it's actually supposed to do. As a physical wall Slowbro, Ferrothorn, Rhyperior (that thing should be B+ damn, we'll get to that another time), Gliscor and Skarmory does the job a lot better. The thing about Hippowdon, like many people have pointed out, is that it needs to be preserved so that its HP is full, in order to switch into Mega Pinsir and Terrakion. This means it has a hard time setting rocks, which is an important role to every team. As a sand setter Tyranitar does the job so much better as it can afford running Smooth Rock and actually have some offensive presence. Hippowdon's performance on most teams I put it on has been lackluster, and unlike Ferrothorn it isn't the worst poke to switch into. One of the things it has going for it is phazing CM Clef and and taking on Excadrills, but I don't think that is enough to justify an A- ranking.

| A+ → A |
Lati@s, Keldeo, Greninja, Heatran, Scarf Lanodrus-T and Scarf Tyranitar all over the place. Mega Charizard Y just isn't as good as it used to be. It has a much harder time breaking against offense, and becuase Lati@s and Bulky Mega Charizard X is seen a lot on balance, its job has got so much more difficult. Once its counters are are removed, it can start wrecking havoc, but the thing is that the counters are much more common in this metagame. Pokemon that are capable of revengekilling CharY have also become more common, in order to deal with Mega Pinsir and CharX. Becuase of its 4x weakness to SR, being forced out means bad news for CharY. I don't think there is a lot to say here, CharY is just less effective as a wallbreaker than it was a few months back. Thus, I feel like dropping it to A is appropriate.

Please disagree and discuss with me n_n

 

[Punchshroom]

Imo, the only notable trait Hippowdon has over Gliscor is its ability to take Hidden Power Ice from Electric-types better (Gastrodon anyone?) and Roar, while still maintaining good physical bulk. Gliscor has far better speed (enough to creep with Mew), Taunt, immunity to status, actually benefits from being Knocked Off if it has Acro, actually counters Mega Heracross, and overall seems to be a hell of a lot more useful than Hippowdon would be.

 

[Immortal]

TheEnder I agree with most of what you said so yeah good stuff there however I am on the fence about Landorus T and I completely disagree with Charizard Y dropping, I honestly feel like it has never been better. I'm gonna start with the pokemon you listed that supposedly give it trouble. Of these Zard x is the only one who really bothers him, although focus blast and d pulse if zard y runs it can hit for decent damage. Next is Lando t, first of charizard y OHKOs every set. Second it is super easy to figure out if Lando T is scarf or not. Even if it is, Charizard can switch in if it is locked to something besides stone edge which allows charizard to either KO it or nuke a teammate. If Lando T switches into zard Y after it kills something, it is safe to say it it has a scarf as its defensive set is just outsped and OHKOed. He also beats Greninja 1v1 so that isnt a great example either. Although Keldeo outspeeds and can hit hard, Charizard can OHKO it with ease and wins 1v1 if they both have most of their health. Now Heatran can be a problem but it gets smacked by focus blast on the way to predictable switch in and is easily handled by many common teammates, such as keldeo, t tar, excadrill and garchomp, hell all 4 of those can even all be run on the same team. Finally he lati twins who I feel are overated as zard y counters, not only because zard y can 2hko latios but because charizard always has pursuit support and they are again such an easy switch in to predict. Tons of stuff can revenge kill Zard Y but who cares, it is a wall breaker not a sweeper, it doesn't need to stay in. Honestly although it needs support it gets that support from fantastic pokemon that work perfectly with it to destroy the things in its way. There is a reason force of nature was like the first cookie cutter team in gen 6. Charizard destroys so many top threats right now and there really aren't many mons who can check it, I mean it destroys basically all the common walls at the moment outside of Heatran who really cant beat any of zard y's teammates. Good answers like chansey simply are not popular anymore. I mean what other walls are there? Ferrothorn and Slowbro get OHKOed by Fireblast and Solarbeam respectively, Mega Venusaur gets 2HKOed, Specially defensive Gliscor takes 82-96% and can't do anything back, it 2HKOs mew. Not to mention offensive pokemon it beats the other mega wall breakers 1v1 and beats most of A+ 1v1 as well. I know full health 1v1 scenarios don't occur all the time but this makes zard y a pretty good lead. Sure it is weak to rocks but every team has defog or spin and both excadrill and the lati twins work great with zard y. Idk what more do you want? This thing is a monster right now.

 

[TheEnder]

TheEnder I agree with most of what you said so yeah good stuff there however I am on the fence about Landorus T and I completely disagree with Charizard Y dropping, I honestly feel like it has never been better. I'm gonna start with the pokemon you listed that supposedly give it trouble. Of these Zard x is the only one who really bothers him, although focus blast and d pulse if zard y runs it can hit for decent damage. Next is Lando t, first of charizard y OHKOs every set. Second it is super easy to figure out if Lando T is scarf or not. Even if it is, Charizard can switch in if it is locked to something besides stone edge which allows charizard to either KO it or nuke a teammate. If Lando T switches into zard Y after it kills something, it is safe to say it it has a scarf as its defensive set is just outsped and OHKOed. He also beats Greninja 1v1 so that isnt a great example either. Although Keldeo outspeeds and can hit hard, Charizard can OHKO it with ease and wins 1v1 if they both have most of their health. Now Heatran can be a problem but it gets smacked by focus blast on the way to predictable switch in and is easily handled by many common teammates, such as keldeo, t tar, excadrill and garchomp, hell all 4 of those can even all be run on the same team. Finally he lati twins who I feel are overated as zard y counters, not only because zard y can 2hko latios but because charizard always has pursuit support and they are again such an easy switch in to predict. Tons of stuff can revenge kill Zard Y but who cares, it is a wall breaker not a sweeper, it doesn't need to stay in. Honestly although it needs support it gets that support from fantastic pokemon that work perfectly with it to destroy the things in its way. There is a reason force of nature was like the first cookie cutter team in gen 6. Charizard destroys so many top threats right now and there really aren't many mons who can check it, I mean it destroys basically all the common walls at the moment outside of Heatran who really cant beat any of zard y's teammates. Good answers like chansey simply are not popular anymore. I mean what other walls are there? Ferrothorn and Slowbro get OHKOed by Fireblast and Solarbeam respectively, Mega Venusaur gets 2HKOed, Specially defensive Gliscor takes 82-96% and can't do anything back, it 2HKOs mew. Not to mention offensive pokemon it beats the other mega wall breakers 1v1 and beats most of A+ 1v1 as well. I know full health 1v1 scenarios don't occur all the time but this makes zard y a pretty good lead. Sure it is weak to rocks but every team has defog or spin and both excadrill and the lati twins work great with zard y. Idk what more do you want? This thing is a monster right now.

What I mean is that it has a very hard time coming in safely becuase or SR, and most consistent Stealth Rockers can take on Excadrill and Lati@s trying to remove the hazards. Examples here include Garchomp, Ferrothorn and Balloon Heatran, all whom are common and trouble teams with CharY greatly. Once CharY comes in though, almost every team has an one-time switchin to it, which is commonly Lati@s. If CharY decides to attack it does ~40-50 depening on which Lati, then it gets forced out. This is the problem. Even though you may trap Lati@s with TTar or Bisharp, then remove hazards with your hazard remover, you've spent a lot of turns and Pokemon just to make CharY able to come in once more. The Pokemon I listed (Keldeo, Greninja, Scarf Tyranitar, Scarf Lanorus-T) are pokes that are able to force it out after a sack, not take it on at full health 1v1 (at least not the former two). Becuase these are so common, is it really worth running CharY when it requires so much in order to break succesfully? I think it's not as good as it was.

 

[dinotrek27]

But it has plenty of CB sets,,,
There are few pokemon that resist Swampert in this meta, and it's... Bulky grass types? There are literally around 3 counters to Swampert in this meta, and while that seems like a lot, two of the three were seeing decreased usage cause of Zone. Those being Ferro and (insert bulky steel type, so Scizor). But even then Swamperts decent attack will probably 2HKO Ferro or maybe OHKO with CB with Superpower. Also have you recently used Swampert cause it has plenty of sets that don't contribute to Roar and SR, while they may not be common, they are used. Seriously, quagmire doesn't do the same thing, therefore it only outclasses it type wise, and can Quagsire take on most pokemon in this meta? That's why it has a decreased rank. Seriously, Swampert has it's unique niche of having a great typing while being somewhat anti meta, learning a variety of hurtful moves to the meta. Also, have fun doing any decent damage with Quagsire,,,

Ok so the thing here is, what can Swampert do, that nothing else in OU can do better? What spot can Swampert fill on a team that no other mon can do, and how metagame defining Is that spot? Follow these guidelines, and you have solid reason for pushing something from unranked to ranked.