Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (V3) (Rank changes are over until ORAS)

[alexwolf]

Update Time:

Mega Tyranitar: A ---> A-
Alomomola: B+ ---> B
Entei: B- ---> C+
Lucario: B- ---> B
Conkeldurr: B- ---> C+
Toxicroak: C ---> C+
Mega Absol: C ---> C-
Volcarona: C ---> C-
Seismitoad: D ---> C-
Mega Blastoise: Stays in C
Shuckle: C+ ---> C
Alakazam: Stays in C

Alomomola dropped because it's very passive in a metagame that is getting more and more offensive. Stall is still viable but is worse than its glory days, and with stall getting worse so did Alomomola. Slowbro also gives Alomomola tons of competition, and the added Psychic-typing plus actual power make Slowbro way better overall.

Entei dropped because it's not in par with the other offensive Pokemon in B-, such as Crawdaunt and Weavile, and tons of competition with other Fire-types, physical wallbreakers, and revenge killers.

Mega Absol dropped because it's frail, weak, outclassed, and occupies your Mega slot.

Volcarona dropped because there are way better sweepers that require less support, though with so many offensive teams around, it might be worth considering raising it to C again after a few weeks.

Seismitoad to C- because it's a decent SR setter that counters most Electric-types and does very well against rain teams. Yeah, Gastrodon can do this too, but Seismitoad is way faster and has Knock Off, making it a better choice for offensive teams.

Mega Blastoise stays in C because it's one of the few anti-hazard Pokemon not weak to Bisharp, a very important pro over Starmie. In general, it's a very reliable spinner whose biggest flaw is being a MEvo.

Alakazam stays in C because both McMeghan and ben gay think it's good enough to stay there, and since i haven't used it for a while, i don't need any other reason.

Changes to discuss:

Excadrill: A+ ---> A
Crawdaunt: B- ---> B
Chesnaught: B- ---> B
Infernape: C+ ---> C
Hydreigon: C- ---> D
Gorebyss: C- ---> D

Excadrill needs some discussion because with sand being less relevant, the same happens with Excadrill. Scarf Excadrill is a mediocre set that is in no way deserving of A+, and with both sand inducers in A- or lower, Excadrill's placement in A+ is dubious.

Infernape will most probably drop, because any good player i talked with, including the ranking team, agreed that it's no on par with the rest of the C+ Pokemon. I know that many people here don't agree with this, which is why i delayed this change a bit, to give you guys a last chance of providing some good reasoning to keep it in C+. I don't want to see the same arguments though, yeah we know that Infernape has some versatility and that it has a lead set, the point is that it faces tons of competition in everything it can do.

Anyway, i think that the list is pretty close to finished, for the current state of the metagame at least, so feel free to suggest any change you want.

 

[SomeKidFromJohto]

Alright, I'll tackle giving some new perspective on infernape. I've found that for all of the things infernape can do, what I find most useful (and thus use the most) is a lead set consisting of SR/Taunt/Fake Out/Fire Blast. This thing just says 'No' to so many other leads that it isn't even funny, and could still be adjusted to meet other specific threats if you desired. It denies SR to anything slower that it stupid enough to still try, it denies focus sashes to breloom and mamoswine with fake out, then OHKOs both with fire blast from there (even through thick fat in mamo's case). It can also shut down GeoPass smeargles, and defeat other common BP users such as ninjask and scolipede, either by taunting or just simply shoving a fire blast down their throats. And add all this onto a pretty fast stealth rock from a 108 speed tier, and you've also got a pretty decent guarantee of getting rocks up after eliminating the opposing rock setter. Or, you could forgo rocks for some extra anti-opposing lead coverage, such as CC for lead Ttar, or even run U-Turn to run from an unfavorable initial matchup. And of course, let's not forget that with taunt, infernape can act as a bit of a second string stallbreaker of sorts, preventing stall pokes from setting up or healing, even though this particular set wouldn't usually be able to threaten them much offensively afterwards. (But again, with some slight modifications, he still could if you really needed him to)

One of the more dangerous leads that I've seen a lot of that Infernape also handles spectacularly is actually mega medicham. Infernape boasts a faster fake out (which is what people do to give themselves a free turn to mega evolve medi), and from there can either force it out (if they're smart and realize they're about to die) to try another fake out later, or KO it with fire blast, with the only thing any medicham could do is minor chip damage with bullet punch, which 'nape resists. In fact, using this set, Infernape is actually a hard check for mega medicham, so that's a pretty big deal.

Now, there are obviously still a few leads that beat 'nape one on one, such as basically any Garchomp or Landorus, but it's not too hard to find a few teammates that can handle them, so that's not the end of the world (and if you wanted to, you could still run HP ice to slam them pretty hard, but if they're scarfed, which they often are, you won't even get that off, so it's barely worth considering seriously)

And all that is JUST what infernape can do as a lead. I think it's 'nape's most effective role, but by NO means is it the only one it can do. I won't get into all that again, though, as I've said it all before in my previous posts on infernape.

So, for the love of Arceus, don't drop infernape. Heck, I'd actually say it should rise, but with all this negativity floating around, that's probably not gonna happen, so I'll have to settle for fighting to keep Nape where he is. Nape might not be the easiest thing to just slap on any team, as he really doesn't have any 'cookie cutter' sets that everyone knows and can use without much prior planning, but with enough careful thought and consideration into what you need out of him, infernape is capable of almost anything. He can fill a variety of jobs on your team and always contribute, so long as you know what you need from him.

So, to recap: Lead infernape is the set I think has the most use, and it is capable of doing a lot. It can:

-Stop slower opposing leads from setting rocks
-Take advantage of fake out to break sash leads, and net the KO in the following turn
-Beat mega medicham one-on-one every time
-Stop BP chains by utilizing either taunt to stop them or coverage to KO them
-Semi-stallbreak

There's obviously even more that this set is capable of doing, but those are the biggest things I can think of that I believe the most people can immediately understand and relate to. So with all that in mind, keep Infernape in C+.

 

[theV8man]

Yea, I think Crawdaunt could potentially go up to B. One of the Pokemon it compares to is Diggersby. While Diggersby is faster and slightly more bulky, and has a few more viable sets, Crawdaunt hits much harder, has a better stab combo, and is less vulnerable against priority. Diggersby's Normal-Ground coverage, while good, can be checked by balloon steels, Skarmory, and Gengar, worst of all. Crawudaunt's coverage is only resisted and taken well by a few Pokemon that aren't commonly used, and these hate losing their item. Crawdaunt is definitely the better choice as an all-out wallbreaker, because it's pretty much unwallable. Diggersby is slightly better against offense, but Gengar is highly used. On paper, it seems like Crawdaunt is the better choice, despite being 3 full rankings below Diggersby. The thing is, I don't have much experience with Diggersby, but unless someone who does can explain why Diggersby is so much higher and somehow outclasses Crawdaunt, I feel that Crawdaunt definitely deserves a raise.

 

[Albacore]

Not quite sure where the idea of an Excadrill drop came from, sure Sand is slightly less relevant than it used to be and Rain has become more popular but that doesn't mean Excadrill under Sand isn't still one of the most nightmarish things for offense to face. Excadrill is pretty much the best sweeper in the tier simply because of the fact that it doesn't need a turn of setup to do so (sure, it needs TTar to have come in beforehand, but you don't actually have to spend a turn putting yourself in a position to sweep), and that it outspeeds the entire metagame when under Sand. All that is required to sweep is for you to sack your sand inducer, which not only lets Exca come in for free, but gives him 8 turns to clean up the rest of the team. I'd much rather see Excadrill in S in all honesty, the only reason it's not S is that it requires you pack a weather inducer for it to be actually good (I agree that Scarf is ass and AV/Mold Breaker Balloon is even worse, but Sand Rush Exca is still just a massive threat despite the admittedly pretty weighty support it needs).

Crawdaunt is better than anything in B- but honestly, I think Weavile may be too. Both of them are really scary for certain teams to face, one is extremely strong vs stall and one very potent vs offense, and neither of these are exactly deadweight when facing the playstyle against which they are weaker (Weavile can put a lot of pressure on stall, and Banded Aqua Jet can somewhat clean Offense). Both of these are at least on par with Lucario IMO, who, now that I think about it it very comparable to these two : it has around the same level of bulk (ie none), and is kind of a middle ground between them, not as good vs Offense as Weavile and not as good vs Stall as Crawdaunt, and I feel like the 3 are on the same level overall, so I support both of these moving up.

Edit : Chesnaught should probably move up too since it beats a few rising threats such as Bisharp and Crawdaunt and Spikes are actually a pretty nice thing for Stall to have. Pretty much as good as Rhyperior as a physical wall, probably better than Mandibuzz actually (whose only true role in this meta is to counter Gengar, not that that's really a bad role since Gengar is really hard to switch into, but Chesnaught just beats more things).

 

[Celticpride]

Chesnaught: B- ---> B: I really like Ches. It's very similar to Rhyperior in that it's a tank that stonewalls a particular playstyle very well, while still not being useless when outside of that playstyle. Ches plays very well against Sand Offense, taking down the TarDrill core very efficiently barring a surprise Ice Beam or Fire Blast (and even then it might survive, will run calcs later when not on my mobile). It also can take on Kabutops and hit any other SSer hard on the switch, wasting precious Rain turns when they have to switch in Scizor/Ferro. It also stacks up relatively well against Lando-T, Terrakion, Ferrothorn, Mega Gyarados lacking Bounce, and anything that relies on EdgeQuake for coverage(aka a lot of things). That is Chesnaught biggest strength, it's typing. It does have big weaknesses to Fire and Flying, but it's one of a handful of things that resists both halves of EdgeQuake, resists Water, more or less shurgs off Fighting and dgaf about Dark outside of losing it's Lefties to Knock Off. The standard Tank set also retains enough power to hit back the stuff it needs to hard. While it doesn't run Synthesis often, Lefties+Leech Seed+Spiky Sheild allows it to regain a fair deal of health without actually healing. Super underrated mon imo, it should move up to B.

*the set I use for my post is Wood Hammer, Hammer Arm, Leech Seed and Spikey Shield, with max HP and max Defense with an Impish nature.

Excadrill: A+ ---> A: Sure Sand isn't the dominant playstyle anymore, but Exca is still an awesome cleaner that devastates unprepared teams. Hippo and TTar may have dropped, but Tyranitar especially isn't a terrible handcuff to keep with it. In fact, I find that TTar-Exca core extremely easy to slap onto teams because they cover so many bases. Exca gives you a great RKer, cleaner, and spinner all in one package, while it's handcuff gives you Pursuit support and SR among other things. Full Sand isn't great by any means, but that two man core exists on a lot of non-Sand offensive teams as well. Exca is still an incredibly dominant force in this meta and it should stay where it is.

 

[Ajwf]

Chesnaught: B- ---> B: I really like Ches. It's very similar to Rhyperior in that it's a tank that stonewalls a particular playstyle very well, while still not being useless when outside of that playstyle. Ches plays very well against Sand Offense, taking down the TarDrill core very efficiently barring a surprise Ice Beam or Fire Blast (and even then it might survive, will run calcs later when not on my mobile). It also can take on Kabutops and hit any other SSer hard on the switch, wasting precious Rain turns when they have to switch in Scizor/Ferro. It also stacks up relatively well against Lando-T, Terrakion, Ferrothorn, Mega Gyarados lacking Bounce, and anything that relies on EdgeQuake for coverage(aka a lot of things). That is Chesnaught biggest strength, it's typing. It does have big weaknesses to Fire and Flying, but it's one of a handful of things that resists both halves of EdgeQuake, resists Water, more or less shurgs off Fighting and dgaf about Dark outside of losing it's Lefties to Knock Off. The standard Tank set also retains enough power to hit back the stuff it needs to hard. While it doesn't run Synthesis often, Lefties+Leech Seed+Spiky Sheild allows it to regain a fair deal of health without actually healing. Super underrated mon imo, it should move up to B.

*the set I use for my post is Wood Hammer, Hammer Arm, Leech Seed and Spikey Shield, with max HP and max Defense with an Impish nature.

Going to second this. I've been working on a team centered around Rhyperior/Chesnaught core and it's been incredible. The chesnaught set I've been running is kinda questionable (Hammer Arm, Wood Hammer are great but Poison Jab and Synthesis are odd). However, I haven't been using a defensive chesnaught... With 252HP, 32 Att, 224 speed adamant, Chesnaught outspeeds jolly azum and 56% OHKOs 252 azum (ohkos the general 96 bulk azum). It outspeeds defensive heatran and still destroys all the targets it usually takes (TTar+Mega, Exca, Gyara-Mega, Breloom). It needs a neutral third attack for flying/psychic dragons (aka poison jab/shadowClaw/Rock Slide) but it has options. Having 280 special bulk, 283 attack and outspeeding 44 speed rotom+jolly azumarill leads you to get a ton of kills. Sure, bulletproof isn't nearly as good right now but it is a wicked attacker without aegislash to be immune to its stab, freeing up the ability to run both stabs and some coverage without too much difficulty.

 

[silver97]

excadrill: i dont' agree with excadrill being dropped to A. Even if many things that give it troubles are raising in OU such as rain teams or priority users like crawdaunt, excadrill is still one of the most threatening sweepers of the OU meta that can easily run through unprepared teams and needs multiple checks and counters in a team to be stopped, furthermore it can be slapped literally on every team with its best friend ttar and that team wouldn't lose anything. it performs many roles all at once

crawdaunt: i have used a lot this guy recently and can assure that it is very good in the meta atm. is very similar to diggersby and pinsir-mega, as it hits fuckin hard and has powerful priority; however it has some more flaws than the other two: it is very slow and very frail. These flaws are compansated by an insane amount of power with adaptability, in fact unlike pinsir and diggersby there is literally nothing that can safely switch into this thing besides maybe chesnaught. i think that it deserves B rank because it's very good in a meta that is getting more and more offensive

chesnaught: i think ches really deserves to be moved up because it's a very good counter or check for many prominent playstyles like rain and sandspam, it can also wall most of the physical sweepers of the tier while being able to setup spikes and inflict some passive damage with spiky shield and leech seed.

infernape: it still has a niche as an antilead pokemon and performs it overall well, but i'd never use him on a team because terrakion just does it better. every other set is just mediocre in OU, so i think that is fair dropping it.

hydreigon: doesn't have much to say about hydreigon. it just loses to every top threat of the meta

 

[Alfalfa]

Update Time:

Mega Tyranitar: A ---> A-
Alomomola: B+ ---> B
Entei: B- ---> C+
Lucario: B- ---> B
Conkeldurr: B- ---> C+
Toxicroak: C ---> C+
Mega Absol: C ---> C-
Volcarona: C ---> C-
Seismitoad: D ---> C-
Mega Blastoise: Stays in C
Shuckle: C+ ---> C
Alakazam: Stays in C

Alomomola dropped because it's very passive in a metagame that is getting more and more offensive. Stall is still viable but is worse than its glory days, and with stall getting worse so did Alomomola. Slowbro also gives Alomomola tons of competition, and the added Psychic-typing plus actual power make Slowbro way better overall.

Entei dropped because it's not in par with the other offensive Pokemon in B-, such as Crawdaunt and Weavile, and tons of competition with other Fire-types, physical wallbreakers, and revenge killers.

Mega Absol dropped because it's frail, weak, outclassed, and occupies your Mega slot.

Volcarona dropped because there are way better sweepers that require less support, though with so many offensive teams around, it might be worth considering raising it to C again after a few weeks.

Seismitoad to C- because it's a decent SR setter that counters most Electric-types and does very well against rain teams. Yeah, Gastrodon can do this too, but Seismitoad is way faster and has Knock Off, making it a better choice for offensive teams.

Mega Blastoise stays in C because it's one of the few anti-hazard Pokemon not weak to Bisharp, a very important pro over Starmie. In general, it's a very reliable spinner whose biggest flaw is being a MEvo.

Alakazam stays in C because both McMeghan and ben gay think it's good enough to stay there, and since i haven't used it for a while, i don't need any other reason.

Changes to discuss:

Excadrill: A+ ---> A
Crawdaunt: B- ---> B
Chesnaught: B- ---> B
Infernape: C+ ---> C
Hydreigon: C- ---> D
Gorebyss: C- ---> D

Excadrill needs some discussion because with sand being less relevant, the same happens with Excadrill. Scarf Excadrill is a mediocre set that is in no way deserving of A+, and with both sand inducers in A- or lower, Excadrill's placement in A+ is dubious.

Infernape will most probably drop, because any good player i talked with, including the ranking team, agreed that it's no on par with the rest of the C+ Pokemon. I know that many people here don't agree with this, which is why i delayed this change a bit, to give you guys a last chance of providing some good reasoning to keep it in C+. I don't want to see the same arguments though, yeah we know that Infernape has some versatility and that it has a lead set, the point is that it faces tons of competition in everything it can do.

Anyway, i think that the list is pretty close to finished, for the current state of the metagame at least, so feel free to suggest any change you want.

Can we continue discussing

Wobbuffet for B- Rank?

 

[Karxrida]

Can we continue discussing

Wobbuffet for B- Rank?

Wobb is actually better in the current Meta than Gothitelle, so it should either go higher than that (baby steps are stupid imo; if something's good enough to go up 2+ ranks then it should) or Goth should drop.

 

[Ajwf]

or Goth should drop.

Bingo. Goth has a niche vs stall, which mew also does while having bulk to handle other styles with that wisp set. Gard/Hera/Medi mega all take stall for a ride, too.... And Garchomp-mega, while underrated, can still handle stall. Not only that, goth isn't taking a whole stall team apart... it might get one or two, same as mew on a prepared stall team for it. These megas taking stall on? They've all got the chance to 6-0 it given their handful of counters (genereally one per team) being about half health. Goth's single niche isn't enough justification.

 

[silver97]

Bingo. Goth has a niche vs stall, which mew also does while having bulk to handle other styles with that wisp set. Gard/Hera/Medi mega all take stall for a ride, too.... And Garchomp-mega, while underrated, can still handle stall. Not only that, goth isn't taking a whole stall team apart... it might get one or two, same as mew on a prepared stall team for it. These megas taking stall on? They've all got the chance to 6-0 it given their handful of counters (genereally one per team) being about half health. Goth's single niche isn't enough justification.

of course goth performs better vs stall, but it has some usage even vs balanced and bulky offense and vs every other team that carry that particular pokemon that needs to be trapped and killed by goth to make things easier for its teammates

 

[Karxrida]

of course goth performs better vs stall, but it has some usage even vs balanced and bulky offense and vs every other team that carry that particular pokemon that needs to be trapped and killed by goth to make things easier for its teammates

Wobb is significantly better because it can switch in repeatedly with its bulk and is able to support the team even if it can't kill something thanks to Encore.

 

[theV8man]

excadrill: i dont' agree with excadrill being dropped to A. Even if many things that give it troubles are raising in OU such as rain teams or priority users like crawdaunt, excadrill is still one of the most threatening sweepers of the OU meta that can easily run through unprepared teams and needs multiple checks and counters in a team to be stopped, furthermore it can be slapped literally on every team with its best friend ttar and that team wouldn't lose anything. it performs many roles all at once

crawdaunt: i have used a lot this guy recently and can assure that it is very good in the meta atm. is very similar to diggersby and pinsir-mega, as it hits fuckin hard and has powerful priority; however it has some more flaws than the other two: it is very slow and very frail. These flaws are compansated by an insane amount of power with adaptability, in fact unlike pinsir and diggersby there is literally nothing that can safely switch into this thing besides maybe chesnaught. i think that it deserves B rank because it's very good in a meta that is getting more and more offensive

chesnaught: i think ches really deserves to be moved up because it's a very good counter or check for many prominent playstyles like rain and sandspam, it can also wall most of the physical sweepers of the tier while being able to setup spikes and inflict some passive damage with spiky shield and leech seed.

infernape: it still has a niche as an antilead pokemon and performs it overall well, but i'd never use him on a team because terrakion just does it better. every other set is just mediocre in OU, so i think that is fair dropping it.

hydreigon: doesn't have much to say about hydreigon. it just loses to every top threat of the meta

If I'm using Life Orb on my Crawdaunt, Aerial Ace is a pretty great option, which lets it 2HKO Chesnaught and 2HKO Venusaur on switch ins if Venu hasn't mega-evolved or if it isn't completely invested in defense...
Also wanted to point out that while Diggersby's quick attack is more useful for the likes of Greninja/Latios, Crawdaunt's Aqua Jet KO's Exca and does heavy damage to the lando's which is also super useful.

 

[silver97]

If I'm using Life Orb on my Crawdaunt, Aerial Ace is a pretty great option, which lets it 2HKO Chesnaught and 2HKO Venusaur on switch ins if Venu hasn't mega-evolved or if it isn't completely invested in defense...
Also wanted to point out that while Diggersby's quick attack is more useful for the likes of Greninja/Latios, Crawdaunt's Aqua Jet KO's Exca and does heavy damage to the lando's which is also super useful.

aerial ace can be an option for bulky grass of course, but i prefer swords dance because knock off still deals good damage
252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 122-146 (33.5 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off vs. 232 HP / 0 Def Mega Venusaur: 161-192 (44.8 - 53.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
and yeah of course don't hit the same mons, but they're similar in the way they work, in fact they can form a nice HO core that's not easy to handle

also i want to point out that gothitelle's niche vs stall isn't exactly the same as mew's or other wallbreakers.
Mew is very annoying for stall teams but it can't just stallbreak alone and it won't probably be able to knock out opposing mons but it will help its teammates to win the game. wallbreakers like the mega trio medi-garde-hera do a different job vs stall, they put tons of pressure on it forcing switches and yeah they can 6-0 it when their counters are weakened enough, but still the role is different from gothitelle's. what goth does vs stall is taking out at least one or 2 opposing team members to help his teammates to break through and this cannot be accomplished by any other pokemon in the meta

 

[Celticpride]

Some interesting Chesnaught calcs (there's a lot in the hide tab):

Chesnaught walls half the meta

+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Ice Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 168-198 (44.2 - 52.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Chesnaught Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 254-300 (76.7 - 90.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (Hammer Arm also 2HKOs)
The only way Mega Gyara is getting by Ches is Bounce, and that takes two turns, so easy switch out.

252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Chesnaught: 169-199 (44.4 - 52.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Chesnaught Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 300-354 (92.8 - 109.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
Hydro Pump is Keldeo's strongest attack, as Secret Sword hits physically. Ches can take any of Keldeo's main STABs quick nicely.

0 SpA Tyranitar Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Chesnaught: 192-226 (50.5 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Tyranitar Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Chesnaught: 158-186 (41.5 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Chesnaught Hammer Arm vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 312-372 (77.4 - 92.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Chesnaught Wood Hammer vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 186-222 (46.1 - 55%) -- 10.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Wood Hammer and then Hammer Arm beats TTar even unless it has special attack investment.

252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 121-144 (31.8 - 37.8%) -- 0.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Chesnaught Hammer Arm vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 342-404 (94.7 - 111.9%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
This is why one typically uses Chesnaught.

252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 160-188 (42.1 - 49.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Chesnaught Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 300-354 (92.8 - 109.5%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
Does anyone even use LO Terrakion? Doesn't matter either way. Even SD Terra CC only 2HKOs at +2.

4 SpA Garchomp Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Chesnaught: 168-198 (44.2 - 52.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Ches can take any other move comfortably, and might be able to get by Fire Blast Chomp with some Leech Seed+Spiky Shield BS and a little bit of luck.

+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bug Bite vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 225-265 (59.2 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Chesnaught Hammer Arm vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Scizor: 85-102 (30.2 - 36.2%) -- 47.1% chance to 3HKO
Leech Seed and Spiky Shield might allow it to outlast if you come in on the SD.

252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 224-266 (58.9 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Chesnaught Wood Hammer vs. 96 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 330-390 (90.4 - 106.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Azu has to invest speed to win with Play Rough, otherwise Ches wins.

+1 252 Atk Mega Tyranitar Ice or Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 182-216 (47.8 - 56.8%) -- 89.5% chance to 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Chesnaught Hammer Arm vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Tyranitar: 324-384 (95 - 112.6%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
As long as Ches comes in on the DD, you win.

+2 252+ Atk Bisharp Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 175-207 (46 - 54.4%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Chesnaught Hammer Arm vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 456-540 (167.6 - 198.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Ches wins unless some obscure crap like Aerial Ace Bish becomes a thing.

+2 252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 122-144 (32.1 - 37.8%) -- 0.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Landorus-T Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 98-116 (25.7 - 30.5%) -- 2.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
-1 0 Atk Chesnaught Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 100-118 (31.3 - 36.9%) -- 76.3% chance to 3HKO
0 Atk Chesnaught Wood Hammer vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Landorus-T: 150-177 (47 - 55.4%) -- 72.7% chance to 2HKO
Stacks up extremely well against any Landorus-T, wins in basically every possible scenario and that's before LS+SS abuse.

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 183-217 (48.1 - 57.1%) -- 42.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Chesnaught Wood Hammer vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Crawdaunt: 314-372 (117.1 - 138.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Literally takes one of the strongest attacks in the meta like a boss (and no one runs LO, Adamant and SD on the same set), while also resisting the complimentary STAB.

That, ladies and gentlemen, is why you run Chesnaught.

 

[Alfalfa]

Seismitoad to C- because it's a decent SR setter that counters most Electric-types and does very well against rain teams. Yeah, Gastrodon can do this too, but Seismitoad is way faster and has Knock Off, making it a better choice for offensive teams.

Are we talking about an offensive Seismitoad spread? I was pretty much the only person that discussed it outside of the OU viability council's inner circle, so is there really any discussion on it? There is also very little elaboration on what exactly you were referring to; what set are you talking about? I am assuming you are implying a Water Absorb + Stealth Rock set, because Swift Swim is really slow and weak, but Seismitoad is really weak anyways coming off of a disappointing base 85 Special Attack, so to say it is a better choice for offensive teams completely really disregards the fact that Seismitoad is really weak. Sure, Ludicolo and Kingdra's Special Attack are not much higher, but at least they have useful secondary STABs that allow them to hit certain targets, such as Ludicolo versus opposing Water Types, and Kingdra Latios and Latias, that block their Hydro Pumps, whereas Seismitoad is only stuck against the uncommon Empoleon. Outside of rain is even worse for Seismitoad because of the lack of rain and speed. Can you please elaborate more on why Seismitoad rose?

 

[Eik00c]

It [Chesnaught] also stacks up relatively well against Lando-T, Terrakion, Ferrothorn, Mega Gyarados lacking Bounce, and anything that relies on EdgeQuake for coverage(aka a lot of things).

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Chesnaught usually carry Spiky Shield, thus rendering Bounce useless?

Also, I agree with dropping Hydreigon to D rank. As most everyone probably knows, its 2 biggest flaws are its awkward speed tier and its 4x weakness to Fairy, along with a slew of other weaknesses. Not only that, but it's outclassed in a lot of potential roles; a LO set is outclassed by Latios, a scarf set is outclassed by Garchomp and various other Dragons, etc. The only un-outclassed set I can think of for Hydreigon is Choice Specs and even then, I'm not 100% sure if it's viable enough (correct me if I'm wrong there). Feel free to disagree with me.

 

[Alfalfa]

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Chesnaught usually carry Spiky Shield, thus rendering Bounce useless?

Also, I agree with dropping Hydreigon to D rank. As most everyone probably knows, its 2 biggest flaws are its awkward speed tier and its 4x weakness to Fairy, along with a slew of other weaknesses. Not only that, but it's outclassed in a lot of potential roles; a LO set is outclassed by Latios, a scarf set is outclassed by Garchomp and various other Dragons, etc. The only un-outclassed set I can think of for Hydreigon is Choice Specs and even then, I'm not 100% sure if it's viable enough (correct me if I'm wrong there). Feel free to disagree with me.

Hydreigon's biggest problem is being flayed alive by most Fairy-types, since that is usually what switches into Hydreigon, who loses to almost every Fairy-Type in the tier, and can only beat Clefable if it switches in on Flash Cannon. D Rank seems completely logistical to me.

 

[Olly]

If I'm using Life Orb on my Crawdaunt, Aerial Ace is a pretty great option, which lets it 2HKO Chesnaught and 2HKO Venusaur on switch ins if Venu hasn't mega-evolved or if it isn't completely invested in defense...
Also wanted to point out that while Diggersby's quick attack is more useful for the likes of Greninja/Latios, Crawdaunt's Aqua Jet KO's Exca and does heavy damage to the lando's which is also super useful.

Aerial Ace really isn't worth it. Chesnaught is too rare to justify the moveslot and it's less powerful than Knock Off vs Mega Venusaur (120 BP vs 130 BP). Plus Swords Dance, Knock Off, Crabhammer, Aqua Jet is a pretty tight moveset. All these moves have utility depending on what you are up against.

 

[AM]

Excuse bad formatting on phone.

Alfalfa I dont use seismitoad in OU well at least not yet but I have a fair amount of experience with it in NU so im sure the same concepts apply in a broader sense for its raise. Water immunity is a fantastic trait to have on any team, especially when 1. Some top tier threats like keldeo thrive on its spammable water moves 2. Increase in rain offense 3. Has a solid typing to check a handful of threats with combined utility with SR and Knock Off at its disposable. Thats my take on seismitoad and those are just generalizations as to why it might've been raised with some more details here and there.

I agree with Chesnaught rising and most have discussed it so no need for me to say anything on that.

Gorebyss should drop to D. It fits the role of a D rank mon perfectly as it has a small niche but is pretty much outclassed in the main role it is suppose to accomplish. Gorebyss is outclassed in the use of Baton Pass, where Smeargle and Scolipede are pretty much superior passers due to having many more tools at their disposal. Gorebyss has the niche of having some offensive presence while being able to pass when necessary which smeargle fails at due to being, well, smeargle lol. Scolipede is just better because it has more diversity offensively and boost passing wise while not having to run white herb unlike gorebyss due to the nature of shell smash. I wouldve been more inclined to see gorebyss unranked but +2 hydro pumps from gorebyss hurt and it can actually fight back and not be total deadweight so I think D is good for it.

 

[Srn]

Aerial Ace really isn't worth it. Chesnaught is too rare to justify the moveslot and it's less powerful than Knock Off vs Mega Venusaur (120 BP vs 130 BP). Plus Swords Dance, Knock Off, Crabhammer, Aqua Jet is a pretty tight moveset. All these moves have utility depending on what you are up against.

Aerial ace is definitely worth a slot solely because you can nail so many of your fighting type switch-ins, most notably Keldeo. It's a really cool lure option and can also nail stuff like breloom on the switch. However this really is only worthy of a slot in the 4 attacks LO set, SD definitely doesn't have enough room. Besides, superpower could be potentially more useful solely for ferrothorn.

Edit @below: welp i underestimated crawdaunt lmao

 

[alexwolf]

Aerial ace is definitely worth a slot solely because you can nail so many of your fighting type switch-ins, most notably Keldeo. It's a really cool lure option and can also nail stuff like breloom on the switch. However this really is only worthy of a slot in the 4 attacks LO set, SD definitely doesn't have enough room. Besides, superpower could be potentially more useful solely for ferrothorn.

- 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 161-190 (49.8 - 58.8%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
- 252+ Atk Life Orb Crawdaunt Aerial Ace vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 192-229 (59.4 - 70.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

- +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 382-452 (108.5 - 128.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

So, there is really no need for Aerial Ace or Superpower for the reasons you mentioned. The only reason to use Aerial Ace is for Chesnaught.

 

[Celticpride]

Hydreigon: C- ---> D: This should happen as well. Hydreigon really can't pull it's weight outside of a few very specific VoltTurn teams. Latios does the Specs set better, it's wall breaking set is badly outclassed by a lot of things and Fairies really threw a wrench in his whole "Dragon/Dark Uber STAB combo" shtick. I have found that it fits on some very specific VoltTurn teams that need a strong special attacker, but Mega Manectric fits better in almost every situation. Literally the posterboy for jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none types.

 

[Berry Juice]

So, there is really no need for Aerial Ace or Superpower for the reasons you mentioned. The only reason to use Aerial Ace is for Chesnaught and physically defensive Mega Venusaur.

Actually, Adaptability Knock Off hits harder than a super effective Aerial Ace:
252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 122-146 (33.5 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Crawdaunt Aerial Ace vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 112-133 (30.7 - 36.5%) -- 50% chance to 3HKO
Not that big of a difference, though

 

[alexwolf]

Actually, Adaptability Knock Off hits harder than a super effective Aerial Ace:
252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 122-146 (33.5 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Crawdaunt Aerial Ace vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Mega Venusaur: 112-133 (30.7 - 36.5%) -- 50% chance to 3HKO
Not that big of a difference, though

True, fixed.