At worst, Mega Lopunny will likely see itself banned to BL. Unresisted 100/130 STABs coming off a 136 base attack and 135 speed, with the ability to paralyse counters, support its team, etc is just going to be too much for UU to handle. It falls -just- short of 2HKOing the likes of M-Venusaur and Skarmory, and there isn't anything comparable in UU that would be able to shut it down.
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Other ORAS Mega Speculation Thread (NO talk about potential bans NOR Aegislash)
- Thread starter Aragorn the King
- Start date
- Status
This is all just pure speculation, but I hazarded some guesses as to the tiers and OU viability of the new Megas:
It seems like the best Megas besides Slowbro and Salamence will be Metagross and the Lati twins. Metagross could be an incredible sweeper with Agility and an incredible tank with that nice typing and insane bulk, while the Latis are just improvements upon their already amazing regular forms.
That's a good point; I hadn't considered the possibility of it going to BL. That's very possible given its great base 135 Speed, although I still doubt that it'll be OU when there are numerous other better Megas to choose from.
Sceptile: UU, B+ in OU
Swampert: OU, A in OU
Diancie: OU, A+ in OU
Sableye: UU, B in OU
Metagross: OU, S in OU
Lopunny: UU/BL, B+ in OU
Salamence: Uber
Altaria: OU, A- in OU
Audino: RU, C in OU
Slowbro: Uber
Sharpedo: UU, B- in OU
Camerupt: BL2, C- in OU
Gallade: BL, A-/A in OU
Beedrill: BL2, D in OU
Pidgeot: RU, unranked in OU
Glalie: RU, D in OU
Steelix: NU/low RU, unranked in OU
Latias: OU, S in OU
Latios: OU, S in OU
Swampert: OU, A in OU
Diancie: OU, A+ in OU
Sableye: UU, B in OU
Metagross: OU, S in OU
Lopunny: UU/BL, B+ in OU
Salamence: Uber
Altaria: OU, A- in OU
Audino: RU, C in OU
Slowbro: Uber
Sharpedo: UU, B- in OU
Camerupt: BL2, C- in OU
Gallade: BL, A-/A in OU
Beedrill: BL2, D in OU
Pidgeot: RU, unranked in OU
Glalie: RU, D in OU
Steelix: NU/low RU, unranked in OU
Latias: OU, S in OU
Latios: OU, S in OU
It seems like the best Megas besides Slowbro and Salamence will be Metagross and the Lati twins. Metagross could be an incredible sweeper with Agility and an incredible tank with that nice typing and insane bulk, while the Latis are just improvements upon their already amazing regular forms.
That's a good point; I hadn't considered the possibility of it going to BL. That's very possible given its great base 135 Speed, although I still doubt that it'll be OU when there are numerous other better Megas to choose from.
Slowbro in Uber? I mean I agree that the Mega is great, but you're going to need to explain yourself a bit.
Yeah lol no way in hell Camerupt will be RU
Isn't Mega Latios outclassed by it's regular form?
Actually it's the other way round; unless you want to run Trickscarf, there is literally no reason to run Regular Latios when you have a Mega slot open, because the far greater bulk+lack of LO recoil will always be worth the slight loss in power.
Mega Slowbro is basically Crocune on steroids. 95 / 180 physical bulk is insane, and 130 special attack is as good as Latios. 95 / 80 special bulk is decent, and it has Calm Mind to patch that up. A simple set of CM / Scald / Psyshock / Slack Off is a phenomenal late-game cleaner, and it can even go RestTalk if you're afraid of status.
Beyond that though, Mega Slowbro can run effective tank sets that don't involve boosting. Scald / Ice Beam / Thunder Wave / Slack Off is a hard counter to every physical attacker in the tier bar like Crunch M-Gyarados. It also has access to Amnesia and Iron Defense if you want to become utterly unkillable. All in all the only way to stop a Slowbro that's started boosting is to phaze it and not every team can afford to run Roar / Dragon Tail.
There is some overlap in their roles, but Mega Latios has a solid niche as a mixed attacker that can sweep with Dragon Dance as well as Defogging and generally doing a lot of damage. The extra bulk and lack of LO recoil is also a boon.
edit: ninja'd by albacore
"if things goes this way smogon will probly have to create another tier, kind of a Ou/Uber Bl with some Banned megas. I personally hope they do so."
my message was removed, i don't see why, i'm not being smogon hater. I honestly think that a lot of new megas will disbalance Ou metagame and deservers a ban, but that number is rapdly incresing (and we can consider that new megas are yet to come) and a Uber/Ou BL would be awesome (Mblaziken/Mgengar maybe an exception).
my message was removed, i don't see why, i'm not being smogon hater. I honestly think that a lot of new megas will disbalance Ou metagame and deservers a ban, but that number is rapdly incresing (and we can consider that new megas are yet to come) and a Uber/Ou BL would be awesome (Mblaziken/Mgengar maybe an exception).
I assume your message was removed because we aren't allowed to bring up banning discussions yet, not because anyone thought you were being a Smogon hater.
Oh, by the way... Uber IS OU's BL.
1. Swampert (in rain)
2. Salamence
3. Diancie
3 1/2 Swampert (out of rain)
4. Slowbro
5. Altaria
6. Metagross
7. Audino
8. Lopunny
9. Gallade
10. Sableye
11. Beedrill
12. Hoopa
13. Pidgeot
14. Sharpedo
15. Camerupt
16. Sceptile
17. Glalie
18. Steelix
2. Salamence
3. Diancie
3 1/2 Swampert (out of rain)
4. Slowbro
5. Altaria
6. Metagross
7. Audino
8. Lopunny
9. Gallade
10. Sableye
11. Beedrill
12. Hoopa
13. Pidgeot
14. Sharpedo
15. Camerupt
16. Sceptile
17. Glalie
18. Steelix
The reason it was deleted is because there already is an OU BL, it's called Ubers.
Trick room doubles version of zard Y.
Also for M-Slowbro I'm finding M-Slowbro to be ideal with 252HP and needing only 56 Def EV's and at minimum 40 SpAtk EV's. This makes M-Gyarados Crunch a 3HKO without scald burns while 2 scalds at +1 would put M-Gyarados in KO range of Jolly Choice band Talonflames brave bird (All with minimum damage roles) for if it tries to switch in and set up on you and you don't get a burn. 168 EV's will allow nuetral scald to 2HKO Bisharp and with a burn Bisharp will be in Jolly Brave bird KO range. Also I'm saying Talonflame would be a good partner for M-Slowbro
Screw latios it's all about mega latias! I don't know why but I hated their designs when I first saw them. Thankfully I have grown to love them and I'm excited as hell to test them out. Mega latias looks to have better stat distribution and could very effectively function as a very good specially defensive support mon. With max HP & spdef (or a mix of def and spdef) + roost it would be pretty tough to take her down and even uninvested she would be hitting hard. She could also run a great bulky attacking set with max HP and special attack. Something like Roost, draco/dragon pulse, thunderbolt, and psyshock maybe?
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I think Mega Slowbro will only be (Very solid) OU. In terms on matchups, it's like Mega Skarmory at its prime: It can check almost all physical attackers you can think of (Let's see, Crunch Mega Gyarados, Pin Missile Mega Heracross... anything else it cannot really check?) but is forced out by most special attackers as it's too slow to avoid the 2HKO.
Doing some calcs on a bulky attacking mega latias set. Here's some impressive ones regarding her bulk...
252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Latias: 338-398 (92.8 - 109.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias: 229-273 (62.9 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
232 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias: 320-378 (87.9 - 103.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Mega Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Latias: 266-314 (73 - 86.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
Yeah, she's bulky. Not even garchomp and mega gardevoir can guarantee a KO from full HP. Bulky attacker is looking like a really good set.
252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Latias: 338-398 (92.8 - 109.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias: 229-273 (62.9 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
232 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Latias: 320-378 (87.9 - 103.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252 Atk Mega Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Latias: 266-314 (73 - 86.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
Yeah, she's bulky. Not even garchomp and mega gardevoir can guarantee a KO from full HP. Bulky attacker is looking like a really good set.
Mega Camerupt has serious potential in OU. With that sweet typing and decent bulk, M-Camerupt can check any Electric-type (Thundurus, Mega Manectric, Raikou, Magnezone, Mega Ampharos, Zapdos) not named Rotom-W, while blocking Volt Switch, a very important trait if the metagame stays favorable to offensive Flying-types, bulky Mega Scizor, Bisharp, Mega Charizard Y, non CM Clefable, Mega Gardevoir, Gengar, defensive Heatran, Mew, Jirachi, Celebi, Victini, Weavile, non-CM Sableye and Mega Sableye, and Mega Diancie.
And when M-Camerupt gets in, it either gets to set up Stealth Rock or nuke something with its great Fire / Ground / Rock coverage, which very few Pokemon outside of special walls can take, and many of which are weak to Pursuit, such as Latios, Latias, and Chansey.
Any of physically defensive, specially defensive, or max HP / max SpA sets seem viable, with maybe enough Speed to outrun Slowbro, in order to 2HKO it before it manages to OHKO back. As for movesets, Fire Blast / Earth Power / Rock Slide / (Stealth Rock / Toxic) or Rest / Sleep Talk / Fire Blast / Earth Power seem as the best options, with the former being preffered for max HP / max SpA spreads and the latter for max HP / max Def or SpD spreads.
Here are some calcs (yeah, i love those when speculating):
Max HP / max SpD+
Max HP / max Def+
Obviously, Mega Camerupt won't see any use until the broken MEvos get out of OU and the metagame settles down a little bit, but if the future balanced OU metagame resembles the one we have right now, Mega Camerupt will have a pretty good niche in it, either as a decent tank and SR setter on teams that have trouble with Electric-types, or as a wall on some balanced and stall teams that can check Mew and a few other problematic Pokemon to stall, such as SubPuP Victini, Bisharp, and Gengar.
Mega Camerupt is also a very synergetic Pokemon with its excellent set of weaknesses and resistances, which means it has a plethora teammates, such as Grass, Water, and Dragon-types. Celebi, Amoonguss, Slowbro, Rotom-W, Latios, and Latias all come to mind.
And when M-Camerupt gets in, it either gets to set up Stealth Rock or nuke something with its great Fire / Ground / Rock coverage, which very few Pokemon outside of special walls can take, and many of which are weak to Pursuit, such as Latios, Latias, and Chansey.
Any of physically defensive, specially defensive, or max HP / max SpA sets seem viable, with maybe enough Speed to outrun Slowbro, in order to 2HKO it before it manages to OHKO back. As for movesets, Fire Blast / Earth Power / Rock Slide / (Stealth Rock / Toxic) or Rest / Sleep Talk / Fire Blast / Earth Power seem as the best options, with the former being preffered for max HP / max SpA spreads and the latter for max HP / max Def or SpD spreads.
Here are some calcs (yeah, i love those when speculating):
Max HP / max SpD+
- 252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Camerupt: 33.7 - 39.5% -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
- 4 SpA Sheer Force Camerupt Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus: 256-303 (85.6 - 101.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock or after two LO rounds
- 252 SpA Mega Manectric Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Camerupt: 14.8 - 17.4% -- possible 8HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
- 252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Camerupt in Sun: 31.6 - 37.5% -- 89% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
- 0 Atk Sheer Force Camerupt Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard Y: 136 - 160.2% -- guaranteed OHKO
- 252+ SpA Choice Specs Magnezone Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Camerupt: 21.8 - 25.8% -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
- 28 SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Camerupt: 29.6 - 34.8% -- 12.2% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
- 4 SpA Sheer Force Camerupt Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 52.7 - 62.3% -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
- 0 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Camerupt: 33.1 - 39.5% -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
- 252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Camerupt: 27 - 31.6% -- 53% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
- 252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Camerupt: 35.1 - 41.2% -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
- 4 SpA Sheer Force Camerupt Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 80 SpD Gengar: 244-288 (93.4 - 110.3%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
- +2 44+ Atk Mega Scizor Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Camerupt: 151-178 (43.8 - 51.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
- 252+ Atk Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Camerupt: 29.6 - 34.8% -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
- +2 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Camerupt: 75.8 - 89.5% -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
- 232 SpA Pixilate Mega Gardevoir Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 31.3 - 37.2% -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
- 232 SpA Mega Gardevoir Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Camerupt: 32.2 - 38.3% -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
- 232 SpA Mega Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Camerupt: 43 - 50.8% -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
- 4 SpA Sheer Force Camerupt Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gardevoir: 59.5 - 70.3% -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 252+ Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Camerupt: 41.8 - 49.7% -- guaranteed 3HKO
- 252+ Atk Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Camerupt: 28.1 - 33.1% -- guaranteed 4HKO
- 4 SpA Sheer Force Camerupt Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Victini: 102 - 120.2% -- guaranteed OHKO
- 252 Atk Life Orb Weavile Icicle Crash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Camerupt: 35.4 - 42.4% -- guaranteed 3HKO
Mega Camerupt is also a very synergetic Pokemon with its excellent set of weaknesses and resistances, which means it has a plethora teammates, such as Grass, Water, and Dragon-types. Celebi, Amoonguss, Slowbro, Rotom-W, Latios, and Latias all come to mind.
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And what can Mega Latias do in return to these?
Thank you!!! It's about time someone spoke up about Camerupt, I didn't really feel like typing a huge wall haha. Seriously, wtf is with all the people saying Camerupt will be RU or barely UU? You have to either be insane or inexperienced in the OU metagame to think that.
OHKOs Garchomp with Draco Meteor and almost OHKOs (18.8%) Greninja as well without any investment in Spe Atk. Not much to Mega TTar (around 30% with Draco) and Mega Gard (around 30% as well with Psyshock).
Tbh, OU, UU, and RU are all very different metagames, so even if Mega Camerupt is good in OU, i doubt it's going to be OU by usage, so where it ends up depends on how it performs in lower tiers.
OHKO ninja and chomp with draco.
2HKO mega tyranitar with HP fighting (which is a valid option).
With a little defence investment she can reliably take an outrage. Beats them all 1v1 except gard.
This may have been said already (i'm way too fucking lazy to read 32 pages z_z) but there is one important distinction between cromegabro and crocune: typing.
A psychic typing, while it does give you some nice resistances, isn't really too helpful as it makes you weak to dark, ghost, and bug. Yeah its resistances are kool but that's only really nice when you have partners to cover up your weaknesses and in turn benefit from your resistances (see: heatran, mandibuzz, etc)
However, a "cro" set is more of a stand alone mon. It will, ultimately, take any hit the opposing team has to offer, restalk it all away, and slowly boost up until scald destroys everything. This is where the psychic typing becomes a hindrance: it gives you weaknesses that makes it easier for the opposing team to overwhelm you and thus stop your sweep.
This is where suicune by FAR holds the advantage. Physical grass and electric moves are uncommon, and those two moves as attacking types are rather uncommon themselves. Insane bulk means it can take plenty of hits even from offensive teams, and after 2 calm minds not many special attacks, electric or grass, is really gonna be denting suicune too much. Slowbro has quite a bit more to be worried about however, like knock off's from LO bisharp or shadow balls' from LO gengar or bandzor u-turns/offensive mzor bug bites.
Not only that but its better off sticking to restalk since status just kinda screws it if it runs slack off :/
So that aside I kinda wanna talk about Mega gallade
For reference: 68/165/95/65/115/110
So what catches my eye is... well everything bar the hp basically lel. This thing is so beautiful. It may not be able to replicate the PURE power (heh) of mega medi's hjk, but the SD set on this guy is looking seriously threatening. A solid 110 base speed and 95/115 defenses makes it quite easy to set up, and if you dont' give a fuck about psychic coverage, shadow sneak is kinda kool, easily killing latios (after SR) and gengar which may try to speed tie.
since shadow sneak is so weak otherwise tho the ideal set, I suppose, would be something like this:
Gallade (M)
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Psycho Cut / Knock Off / Shadow Sneak
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch / Knock Off / Shadow Sneak
Knock Off will PROBABLY be the better option for Slowbro and Mega Slowbro, but yeah this thing sounds seriously frightening.
Also mega steelix sucks penis NU for lyfe
alexwolf EDIT: No assumptions about Uber Pokemon getting unbanned.
A psychic typing, while it does give you some nice resistances, isn't really too helpful as it makes you weak to dark, ghost, and bug. Yeah its resistances are kool but that's only really nice when you have partners to cover up your weaknesses and in turn benefit from your resistances (see: heatran, mandibuzz, etc)
However, a "cro" set is more of a stand alone mon. It will, ultimately, take any hit the opposing team has to offer, restalk it all away, and slowly boost up until scald destroys everything. This is where the psychic typing becomes a hindrance: it gives you weaknesses that makes it easier for the opposing team to overwhelm you and thus stop your sweep.
This is where suicune by FAR holds the advantage. Physical grass and electric moves are uncommon, and those two moves as attacking types are rather uncommon themselves. Insane bulk means it can take plenty of hits even from offensive teams, and after 2 calm minds not many special attacks, electric or grass, is really gonna be denting suicune too much. Slowbro has quite a bit more to be worried about however, like knock off's from LO bisharp or shadow balls' from LO gengar or bandzor u-turns/offensive mzor bug bites.
Not only that but its better off sticking to restalk since status just kinda screws it if it runs slack off :/
So that aside I kinda wanna talk about Mega gallade
For reference: 68/165/95/65/115/110
So what catches my eye is... well everything bar the hp basically lel. This thing is so beautiful. It may not be able to replicate the PURE power (heh) of mega medi's hjk, but the SD set on this guy is looking seriously threatening. A solid 110 base speed and 95/115 defenses makes it quite easy to set up, and if you dont' give a fuck about psychic coverage, shadow sneak is kinda kool, easily killing latios (after SR) and gengar which may try to speed tie.
since shadow sneak is so weak otherwise tho the ideal set, I suppose, would be something like this:
Gallade (M)
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Psycho Cut / Knock Off / Shadow Sneak
- Close Combat
- Ice Punch / Knock Off / Shadow Sneak
Knock Off will PROBABLY be the better option for Slowbro and Mega Slowbro, but yeah this thing sounds seriously frightening.
Also mega steelix sucks penis NU for lyfe
alexwolf EDIT: No assumptions about Uber Pokemon getting unbanned.
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Defog if you need to ensure a CB Talonflame cleanup ;)
Besides, I think he was just showing us those calcs as a testament to her CRAZY bulk
Yeah that was basically it but if you run HP fighting you beat them all 1v1 except mega gard… lol
i'm just hype to try mega camerupt on sloth
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