Other ORAS Mega Speculation Thread (NO talk about potential bans NOR Aegislash)

[Jackoosh]

Would Shadow Sneak be viable on M-Gallade at all? I remember it being hyped up quite a bit but all the sets I've seen here - maybe I've missed some - go for full-on powerful attacks and status

Knock off seems better as gallade already has a pretty nice speed tier, but shadow sneak could be nice for the latis and starmie.

Imo, leaf blade might be important on gallade if slowbro really takes off, as shadow sneak and knock off won't hurt him much.

 

[MrStallion]

if it's setting up

and hasn't attacked you... yeah

speed ties are a shitastic goal to aim for

do you not realize

how much damage sucker punch does to sceptile

also

if you really think eq is that useless

just max out satk

and use focus blast

we done

"Just max out special attack and focus blast" First it only has 70% accuracy
Next

Even on non Sp.Def Heatrans that won't OHKO
252 SpA Sceptile Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Heatran: 272-320 (84.2 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

and on SpDef Heatrans it only does half (Less than low kick)

252 SpA Sceptile Focus Blast vs. 248 HP / 220+ SpD Heatran: 202-238 (52.4 - 61.8%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

And I know sucker punch does alot of damage but not every situation is ideal and it sounds like you've never heard of an insurance sack.

Also LOL @ speed ties are a shit goal to aim for. Do you run non max speed latios because you don't want to aim for a speed tie?

 

[edavis707]

Can you explain? I've explained my position, Ice Shard isn't very powerful on Mega Glalie, and when you use Mega Glalie as a nuke, logically it's more efficient to run coverage to beat almost everything than run priority that isn't very strong nor recurringly useful anyways.

I don't feel I have to explain why Priority is so important. Coverage isn't everything, especially when everything you listed is a 2HKO, and some things you listed kill Glalie in one shot. While you don't HAVE to run Ice Shard, you can't say it's a bad choice because STAB priority is always a good thing. And Glalie doesn't get Freeze-Dry so there's that too.

 

[dwarfstar]

Also LOL @ speed ties are a shit goal to aim for. Do you run non max speed latios because you don't want to aim for a speed tie?

A Speed tie is a worthy goal if the mon you aim to tie with is likely to be relevant and you don't get a big benefit from investing in a third stat. Mega-Beedrill isn't likely to be relevant enough in the meta to forgo the ability to reliably take out common mons that would otherwise trouble Sceptile, so in this case, it is a shitty goal to aim for. The situation is very different from aiming for Speed ties on two base 110 mons because there are a lot of threatening base 110s, so you have a compelling reason to sacrifice a bit of power for a shot at beating them.

EDIT: You don't even reliably beat a healthy Mega-Beedrill if you hit first unless you're boosted. The best you can hope for is this:
252 SpA Mega-Sceptile Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Beedrill: 172-204 (63.4 - 75.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (guaranteed 2HKO without it)
Follow that up with a solid OHKO from one of Beedrill's STABs. Investing fully in Speed just to tie with Beedrill is pointless because you can't reliably beat it, and you potentially lose against more important threats that you can beat if you run Earthquake and some Attack investment.

EDIT 2: Tying with Adamant Scarf Landorus-T is pointless because Scarf sets are pretty much always Jolly.

 

[LeoLancaster]

Also LOL @ speed ties are a shit goal to aim for. Do you run non max speed latios because you don't want to aim for a speed tie?

Lati@s run max speed because the lowest they could drop is enough for Keldeo. The extra 12 evs doesn't do anything notable in bulk, so there's no reason not to go for the speed tie.

MSceptile gains a lot more evs by dropping to the next relevant benchmark, so the extra power is more beneficial than going for the speed tie.

Also base 100s don't usually go for the tie either, running Adamant/Modest 216 spe. (just an example)

Basically the only time you go for the speed tie is when dropping to the next speed benchmark gains negligible extra bulk/power. As is the case with Lati@s.

 

[Jackoosh]

Can you explain? I've explained my position, Ice Shard isn't very powerful on Mega Glalie, and when you use Mega Glalie as a nuke, logically it's more efficient to run coverage to beat almost everything than run priority that isn't very strong nor recurringly useful anyways.

Basically, ground/ice is amazing coverage, especially in a tier with as many ice weaknesses as ou. Glalie doesn't really need much outside of that, whereas ice shard can quite easily snipe weakened pokemon that threaten it, such as garchomp or scarf landorus-t. Imo, there isn't really much else he needs to do, but if certain coverage is useful for a particular team (ex; dark pulse to lure slowbro) then I suppose it would be worth considering dropping ice shard.

 

[naturalstupidity]

I've been lurking here for a while now but now that I hear both sides, EQ on Mega Sceptile is kinda useless. It's just asking to be airballoon bait. Theres no reason not to use low kick with M-Sceptile

136 Atk Sceptile Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 202-238 (52.4 - 61.8%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

136 Atk Sceptile Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 340-400 (88.3 - 103.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

I'd say there's a reason to run Earthquake. Low Kick really only hits Ferrothorn badly which still hates HP Fire.

 

[MrStallion]

A Speed tie is a worthy goal if the mon you aim to tie with is likely to be relevant and you don't get a big benefit from investing in a third stat. Mega-Beedrill isn't likely to be relevant enough in the meta to forgo the ability to reliably take out common mons that would otherwise trouble Sceptile, so in this case, it is a shitty goal to aim for. The situation is very different from aiming for Speed ties on two base 110 mons because there are a lot of threatening base 110s, so you have a compelling reason to sacrifice a bit of power for a shot at beating them.

EDIT: You don't even reliably beat a healthy Mega-Beedrill if you hit first unless you're boosted. The best you can hope for is this:
252 SpA Mega-Sceptile Hidden Power Fire vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Beedrill: 172-204 (63.4 - 75.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (guaranteed 2HKO without it)
Follow that up with a solid OHKO from one of Beedrill's STABs. Investing fully in Speed just to tie with Beedrill is pointless because you can't reliably beat it, and you potentially lose against more important threats that you can beat if you run Earthquake and some Attack investment.

Beedrill was just an example. It's mostly Lando-T and in this case your not losing any power as if you compare the spreads my Sceptile has much more special attack EV's than the other guys spread

 

[kiloments]

Why would you bother trying to OHKO heatran anyways? Eq with only 4 evs is a guaranteed 2HKO. You already outspeed scarftrans with max speed and it's a 75% chance to OHKO after rocks. However, overheat or hp ice will OHKO you so there's that.

 

[MrStallion]

136 Atk Sceptile Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 202-238 (62.5 - 73.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

fantastic

That's good enough. I really don't see a reason why I need to OHKO Heatran in the first place. M-Sceptile isn't a pure grass type. It's not weak to fire

 

[Rosen]

If you are facing sdef heatran with 0 atk evs and you are lacking eq, between lava plume, toxic, and protect, heatran will severely cripple you or even beat you. sceptile is a fast, frail attacker that needs to net as many ohkos as possible before it gets killed off, and if you're willing to let sceptile almost die to sucker punch or lava plume so you can get the ohko on bisharp, then maybe you shouldn't be using sceptile. it's almost like team support exists or something

 

[Norne]

As much as i love eq as a coverage in most mons it is really redundant in megascpetile as he has lowkick.

Seriously EQ sceptile is pretty much begging to be walled by chansey and destroyed by ttar with iceBeam/Punch. As said before scarf/ballon heatran does get hit hard by low kick while still damaging chansey by 20 extrapoints. I do admit that without a lo boost it wont 2hko (like greninja)without previous damage but it will nail a 3hko as she cannot twave you or attempts to toxic stall you making it a dire scenario for the blob.

 

[Rosen]

278 x 1.5 = 417 for timid Heatrans with choice scarfs

Max Speed M-Sceptile has 427 speed.

yes i see now that i was wrong

As much as i love eq as a coverage in most mons it is really redundant in megascpetile as he has lowkick.

Seriously EQ sceptile is pretty much begging to be walled by chansey and destroyed by ttar with iceBeam/Punch. As said before scarf/ballon heatran does get hit hard by low kick while still damaging chansey by 20 extrapoints. I do admit that without a lo boist it wont 2hko without previous damage but it will nail a 3hko as she cannot twave you or attempts to toxic stall you making it a dire scenario for the blob.

^first decent argument for low kick i've seen tbh
(not really since low kick does jack shit to chansey)

i'm not saying lk is bad, but ohkoing sdef tran, which is a very common mon that could otherwise severely cripple sceptile, is kind of a big deal

also leaf storm has a 94% chance to ohko tyranitar after sr...

 

[Jackoosh]

You wish bro.

Cant post calcs tough but EQ at first glance seems way to redundant.

I've got a couple:

Hide

0 Atk Sceptile Low Kick (60 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 124-148 (19.3 - 23%) -- possible 5HKO
0 Atk Sceptile Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 103-122 (16 - 19%) -- possible 6HKO
136 Atk Sceptile Low Kick (60 BP) vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 185-218 (28.8 - 33.9%) -- 1.3% chance to 3HKO
136 Atk Sceptile Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 152-179 (23.6 - 27.8%) -- 87.4% chance to 4HKO

0 Atk Sceptile Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 106-126 (30.1 - 35.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Sceptile Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 53-63 (15 - 17.8%) -- possible 9HKO after Leftovers recovery
136 Atk Sceptile Low Kick (100 BP) vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 120-142 (34 - 40.3%) -- 38.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
136 Atk Sceptile Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 60-71 (17 - 20.1%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Sceptile Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 180-212 (46.7 - 55%) -- 9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Sceptile Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 296-352 (76.8 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
136 Atk Sceptile Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 202-238 (52.4 - 61.8%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
136 Atk Sceptile Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 340-400 (88.3 - 103.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

0 Atk Sceptile Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 252-300 (62.5 - 74.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Sceptile Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 106-126 (26.3 - 31.2%) -- 11.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
136 Atk Sceptile Low Kick (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 288-340 (71.4 - 84.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
136 Atk Sceptile Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tyranitar: 120-142 (29.7 - 35.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 206-246 (51.1 - 61%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
120 SpA Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Mega Tyranitar in Sand: 186-222 (46.1 - 55%) -- 61.3% chance to 2HKO

Yeah eq is pretty unnecessary outside of dealing with heatran more reliably.
(aware that hp fire deals with ferro better)

Edit: Rosen I agree that heatran is a pretty big deal and getting the ko on it with eq 25% of the time (assuming the evs I've seen around the thread a bit) is equally big, but low kick adds a bit more utility in that slot, damaging some pretty common pokemon heavily (and barely tickling chansey, but that's besides the point)

 

[kiloments]

As much as i love eq as a coverage in most mons it is really redundant in megascpetile as he has lowkick.

Seriously EQ sceptile is pretty much begging to be walled by chansey and destroyed by ttar with iceBeam/Punch. As said before scarf/ballon heatran does get hit hard by low kick while still damaging chansey by 20 extrapoints. I do admit that without a lo boost it wont 2hko (like greninja)without previous damage but it will nail a 3hko as she cannot twave you or attempts to toxic stall you making it a dire scenario for the blob.

Well you hopefully won't be using eq on ttar while you have leaf storm/giga drain. And no special attacker can really brute force through a chansey without setting up. ( although I'm curious as to the attack evs) edit: nvm saw the calcs fir evs. My argument still stands

 

[Rosen]

well yeah it's for heatran

it was always for heatran

heatran is kind of a big deal

also it ohkos 100% after sr, for those throwing around some 25% or whatever calc around

 

[MrStallion]

I need you guys to help fill in some blanks on this set
Metagross @ Metagrossite
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 200 Atk / 4 Def / 52 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Meteor Mash/Iron Head
- Grass Knot
- idk yet (Ice punch maybe)
- idk yet

The 52 SpAtk EV's allow you to (Let me define this one) 2HKO 252HP/4SpDef M-Slowbro with Grassknot after rocks 81.25% of the time IF your first hit is against nuetral M-Slowbro and the 2nd hit is against +1 M-Slowbro. This is important since if you don't 2HKO it, it will recover and your grass knots will be out of 2HKO range once it is at +1 so the 52 EV's are needed to consistantly not get set up on. The 4 Def EV's are really just because they make a slight difference like turning Dragonites or base 134 equivalants OHKO with earthquake at +1 from 50% to 43% and the 4 EV's weren't changing any damage roles in attack or Special attack.

Anyways... I never got advice on this set. Anyone here have any ideas for slash fillers?

 

[kiloments]

Anyways... I never got advice on this set. Anyone here have any ideas for slash fillers?

I did see a slash for heavy slam as STAB.... But anyways, ice punch or even eq might be good. It really all depends on what you're trying to hit as well as your teammates.

 

[trikx_insane]

With this debate on EQ and Low Kick Sceptile, 100% certain Sceptile gets Drain Punch from b2w2 move tutor. that way it can get recovery while hitting Chansey and Heatran super-effectively. would anyone care to do calcs for me? doing calcs on mobile is annoying .

 

[naturalstupidity]

With this debate on EQ and Low Kick Sceptile, 100% certain Sceptile gets Drain Punch from b2w2 move tutor. that way it can get recovery while hitting Chansey and Heatran super-effectively. would anyone care to do calcs for me? doing calcs on mobile is annoying .

252+ Atk Sceptile Drain Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 152-180 (39.4 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Sceptile Drain Punch vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 212-250 (33 - 38.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

252+ Atk Sceptile Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tyranitar: 292-348 (85.6 - 102%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

Even with Drain Punch I'd still rather run Low Kick / Earthquake. Drain Punch is just piss-weak coming off of an itemless base 110 Attack. Keep in mind this is 252+ which nobody in their right mind would run.

 

[Jackoosh]

Anyways... I never got advice on this set. Anyone here have any ideas for slash fillers?

Zen headbutt is pretty nice for secondary stab, and eq is a good coverage option as usual, but it pretty much depends on how the meta develops and what your team needs.

Although if I were you I'd dump those evs back into attack because you can still 2hko slowbro before and after it mega evolves, and the hypothetical slowbro user would likely fish for a burn or switch out because most are aware of grass knot metagross anyways.

One thing that I realized earlier is that metagross could be a decent gardevoir check for stall teams thanks to his typing and good natural bulk, and so maybe a restalk set would be in order.

Metagross @ Metagrossite
160 Hp/92 Atk/252 Spe
Clear body -> tough claws
Jolly Nature
Meteor Mash
Zen Headbutt
Rest
Sleep Talk

The Hp investment is there so focus blast from timid gardevoir always 3hko's, the speed with a jolly nature is to take advantage of metagross' nice speed tier and, and the rest is dumped into attack so his stab moves can hit harder.

Seems pretty decent, but what does everyone think?

 

[MrStallion]

With this debate on EQ and Low Kick Sceptile, 100% certain Sceptile gets Drain Punch from b2w2 move tutor. that way it can get recovery while hitting Chansey and Heatran super-effectively. would anyone care to do calcs for me? doing calcs on mobile is annoying .

4 Atk Sceptile Drain Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 112-134 (29 - 34.8%) -- 6.9% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Sceptile Drain Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 140-166 (36.3 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Sceptile Drain Punch vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 156-184 (24.2 - 28.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Sceptile Drain Punch vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 192-228 (29.9 - 35.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

4 Atk Sceptile Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tyranitar: 220-260 (64.5 - 76.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Sceptile Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Tyranitar: 272-320 (79.7 - 93.8%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
4 Atk Sceptile Drain Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 236-280 (86.7 - 102.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Sceptile Drain Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 292-348 (107.3 - 127.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[WebBowser]

MrStallion I personally think all out attacker is the way to go for mega meta. Try elemental punches or EQ.

 

[Jackoosh]

If only metagross got bulk up that rest talk set would be delicious. It has decent special bulk (more than jirachi) so you can run SpD. But oh well, a dream is a dream.

You can avoid the 2hko from focus blast with 140 spd evs, but imo the hp gives it better all-around utility (it isn't ohko'd by adamant medicham's high jump kick for instance) and lets you take psyshocks a bit better (but you do x4 resist so that doesn't matter much).

 

[Halcyon.]

Hi, I would like to introduce you all to the broken piece of shit that will destroy the meta. Here's a bit of innovation for you all. Putting this shit here now so I can claim it as my own :]

Huge thanks to Imanalt for helping me on the spread :]

Salamence @ Salamencite
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 168 HP / 92 Atk / 88 SpD / 160 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Return
- Roost
- Dragon Dance
- Substitute

The EVs will let you 1. outspeed Mew before you Mega Evolve, 2. set up subs that cannot be broken by Rotom-W's Volt Switch. This means you take advantage of the number of people running these two Pokemon and completely fuck everything with massive bulk and power. Oh, btw, Gyro from Ferrothorn can't break your sub either while you're at +0, and at +1 it can't break your sub IF you got the Intimidate off first. Either way it's not outdamaging Roost and you about 70% with Return at +1. There is nothing these Pokemon can do to stop you from setting up until the cows come home. Intimidate also gives you added bulk, making it even easier to set up. Sometimes I wonder how people can even sleep at night with this monster looming overhead.

ps, fuck your Mamoswine.

244 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 168 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 270-328 (72.3 - 87.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+1 92+ Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 418-493 (116.4 - 137.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO