Data ASB Feedback & Game Issues Thread - Mk III

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I've complained about the payout for approving for a while now. I've complained about the solutions to other problems being "Well, we'll just have the approvers do the dirty work." In fact, that was a solution for Self-Reffing. We will just have the approvers go over the battle and figure everything out for their measly 0.1 UC per post in the prize claim.

The minuscule pay is what has burned me out as far as approving goes. Some days I have spent 3-4 hours approving for a GRAND TOTAL of 1.2 UC. Meanwhile, I could ref 5 flash matches in the same time period for anywhere between a total 15 UC to 50 UC.

The most I received from approving a single claim was C$FP's 6th Gen updates which consumed 4 posts. I got about 1.0 UC for it.

I do not oppose increasing pay for approvers, especially since we've increased their responsibilities (6th Gen updates is more than just new moves).
 
Hey everyone, just proposing a simple item that codifies/deals with Shaymin and Skymin with its forme changing:

gracidea.png
Gracidea: This item when held by Shaymin automatically transforms Shaymin into its Sky Forme. If Shaymin is frozen, then Shaymin will revert to its Land Forme. Shaymin can only transform into Sky Forme once per battle this way. Gracidea can be held by Shaymin in addition to any other item and cannot be removed or negated by Embargo or Magic Room.

Cost: N/A CC (i.e. TLR exclusive) | Affected Pokémon: Shaymin

I also thought of it being just an automatic item in your pocket ala the Rotom Formes that you can give but given it is ultimately a temporary transform, I guess we can make it a held item that can be held with anything else to keep in line with things like Choice Scarf Skymin or whatever.

We could do something similar with Kyurem Formes and Landorus formes and whatnot but for now, this can do. :)

EDIT: Kyurem items!

darkstone.png
Dark Stone: This item when held by Kyurem automatically transforms it into Black Kyurem and gives it access to Fusion Bolt and Freeze Shock while it is Black Kyurem. Dark Stone can be held by Kyurem in addition to any other item and cannot be removed or negated by Embargo or Magic Room. Dark Stone cannot be held in addition to Light Stone.

Cost: N/A CC (i.e. TLR exclusive) | Affected Pokémon: Kyurem

lightstone.png
Light Stone: This item when held by Kyurem automatically transforms it into White Kyurem and gives it access to Fusion Flare and Ice Burn while it is White Kyurem. Light Stone can be held by Kyurem in addition to any other item and cannot be removed or negated by Embargo or Magic Room. Light Stone cannot be held in addition to Dark Stone.

Cost: N/A CC (i.e. TLR exclusive) | Affected Pokémon: Kyurem
 
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If we have information about claiming Unown and Tynamo in the Handbook, we should probably include information about claiming weakmons like Beldum and Weedle in the handbook.
 
Shaymin should already have access to Air Slash and Sweet Kiss in its Land Forme because when Shaymin switches back to its Land Forme after learning these moves in Sky Forme, they are retained. I tested this with Air Slash on my Platinum version, so this should be how it works here. This should not apply to Kyurem because it loses Fusion [Move] / Ice Burn / Freeze Shock when reverting to its normal form.
 
Id like to bring up an issue that is rarely encountered because of battle styles, but is still important. Multiple Helping Hand Boosts factoring EN Usage. I talked on IRC about this issue and it was basically agreed that Multiple HH boosts uses final BAP for EN cost. However, there is still confusion among battlers, NDA doesnt refer to multiple HH EN cost at all and I would like a definite ruling+definite definition put in the NDA.
 
It was been ruled before that the same move can't be boosted more than once by Helping Hand (except for a hh+hh combo). Rulings on the opposite direction were also given too.

I would like if said matter were resolved first. Can anyone test on triples if double helping hand is possible?
 
So, a move by a pokemon can't be boosted more than once by Helping Hand. Multiple uses of Helping Hand on a pokemon whose move is already boosted by an Ally's Helping Hand would fail that turn/action, although Energy would be consumed on all uses of Helping Hand as this scenario wouldn't fall under moves failing due to restriction.

Although a (HH + HH) combo would work on an Ally pokemon, provided that it is the first attempt of Helping Hand on the Ally pokemon that action. Following which, all attempts of Helping Hand on that Ally pokemon on the same action would fail.

Tested it in a triples battle on showdown with Mega Charizard trying to get Helping Hand boost from Whimsicott and Meowstic. Meowstic's Helping Hand failed!

;_; and charizard fainted!

Whimsicott used Helping Hand!
Whimsicott is ready to help Charizard!
Charizard has Mega Evolved into Mega Charizard!
The sunlight turned harsh!
Garchomp has Mega Evolved into Mega Garchomp!
Meowstic used Helping Hand!
Unknown command: singleturn
The opposing Excadrill used Rock Slide!
A critical hit! It's super effective! Charizard lost 100% of its health!
Meowstic avoided the attack!
Charizard fainted!
The opposing Garchomp used Iron Head!
It's super effective! Whimsicott lost 92.0% of its health!
The opposing Tyranitar used Rock Slide!
Whimsicott lost 8.0% of its health!
Meowstic avoided the attack!
Whimsicott fainted!
Click to expand...
 
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So, changing topics... Final Gambit combinations.

Kinda unclear how this works atm, especially in regards to the damage cap (are there any other moves with a similar sort of damage cap? idr, but if there are I guess discussing them would make sense as well). It's been sorta ruled before that Final Gambit+Final Gambit would raise the cap to 60 and deal however much HP you have as damage up to that cap, but doing 60 damage seems pretty insane. Of course, it is a combination and you are sacrificing a Pokemon with 60+ HP to do so, but still seems pretty ridiculous.

In a sentence, how do we want Final Gambit+Final Gambit to work/how should it work?
 
Explosion needs 77 energy to deal 56.5 damage + stuff (or - stuff). I would use it as parameter.

DBond + DBondd needs 59.5 energy to deal 60 damage flat.

Final Gambit + Final Gambit needs 44EN (you don't need to pay the whole price) to deal 60hp of damage, provided you have a 60hp mon.


Personally, assuming we keep the "damage = hp" rule for final gambit, it seems kinda fine. Explosion needs a SHITLOAD of energy, so it also seems somewhat fine.

Dbond combo is much better than the others.
 
Regarding Helping Hand, PS! is actually wrong about this one; I tested it on my Y version and it seemingly worked fine.

Video Code: QWFW WWWW WWWA 89HY


Cobalion used Helping Hand!
Cobalion is ready to help Terrakion!
Virizion used Helping Hand!
Virizion is ready to help Terrakion!
Terrakion used Rock Slide!
It's not very effective on the opposing Geodude or Machop...


Also, STAB commands. They were used quite a lot until it was "ruled" (in quotes because I can't find where this actually happened) by Deck that STAB commands were not useable a la toggle or trigger abilities like Trace or Drought. This then caused usage of STAB commands to virtually cease. At times, I've forgotten they even exist, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. I therefore propose that we do one of the following:
A) Make STAB commands useable for free on sendout.
B) Buff STAB commands so that people will actually use them.
C) Explode them.

Option C I'm not really a fan of, because it leaves the Fire, Grass, and Ice-type Polemon without a STAB effect beyond what they have in-game. So that leaves us with the option of making them toggleable on sendout, or buffing the commands themselves. (alongside the obvious option of leaving them as their underpowered current selves) I'm personally a fan of option A, but buffing the commands themselves wouldn't be a bad idea. I'm thinking that a possible Frost buff would be to have it triple the freeze chance as opposed to the current iteration of doubling it, given that a 30% chance is a lot better than a 20% chance and that freezing is nowhere near as powerful in ASB as it is in-game, I'd say that that's pretty good but not overpowered. Brighten could maybe temporarily activate Blaze, Flash Fire, and whatever Fire-type boosting abilities there are. No clue as for what we could do to Bloom. Store we could maybe explode if we go the "buff" route, given that Poison-types already have -- Acc Toxic and Co.
 
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Its_A_Random said:
Hey everyone, just proposing a simple item that codifies/deals with Shaymin and Skymin with its forme changing:

gracidea.png
Gracidea: This item when held by Shaymin automatically transforms Shaymin into its Sky Forme. If Shaymin is frozen, then Shaymin will revert to its Land Forme. Shaymin can only transform into Sky Forme once per battle this way. Gracidea can be held by Shaymin in addition to any other item and cannot be removed or negated by Embargo or Magic Room.

Cost: N/A CC (i.e. TLR exclusive) | Affected Pokémon: Shaymin

I also thought of it being just an automatic item in your pocket ala the Rotom Formes that you can give but given it is ultimately a temporary transform, I guess we can make it a held item that can be held with anything else to keep in line with things like Choice Scarf Skymin or whatever.

We could do something similar with Kyurem Formes and Landorus formes and whatnot but for now, this can do. :)

EDIT: Kyurem items!

darkstone.png
Dark Stone: This item when held by Kyurem automatically transforms it into Black Kyurem and gives it access to Fusion Bolt and Freeze Shock while it is Black Kyurem. Dark Stone can be held by Kyurem in addition to any other item and cannot be removed or negated by Embargo or Magic Room. Dark Stone cannot be held in addition to Light Stone.

Cost: N/A CC (i.e. TLR exclusive) | Affected Pokémon: Kyurem

lightstone.png
Light Stone: This item when held by Kyurem automatically transforms it into White Kyurem and gives it access to Fusion Flare and Ice Burn while it is White Kyurem. Light Stone can be held by Kyurem in addition to any other item and cannot be removed or negated by Embargo or Magic Room. Light Stone cannot be held in addition to Dark Stone.

Cost: N/A CC (i.e. TLR exclusive) | Affected Pokémon: Kyurem
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I went ahead and implemented these items into the NDA. Now I need to deal with items for genies (if at all) and the Hoopa Item that lets it change to its alternate forme... whatever it is...
 
Bag_Reveal_Glass_Sprite.png
Reveal Glass: This item when in the Trainer's Bag, can transform Tornadus, Thundurus, and Landorus between their Incarnate and Therian forms. This transformation must be used before the start of the battle. This item cannot be used in battle and cannot be held.

Cost: N/A CC (i.e. TLR exclusive) | Affected Pokemon: Tornadus, Thundurus, and Landorus

Starting suggestion. If the grammar sounds kinda wonky, i apologize. I also assume this is how the Reveal Glass would work since this is how it works in-game
 
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Why not just allow the trainer to choose which form to use upon send-out in any battle (but only the first time it is sent out)? Any other way of doing things seems like it would be too easy to cheat (unless the Reveal Glass becomes free or is thrown in with any way of obtaining any one of the three).
 
Well having Legendary sig items to have them change formes opens up interesting possibilities with TLRs, not as much with the genies but especially so with Kyurem and Shaymin. We've already seen this in WSM where midway through the TLR you have the choice of taking a Gracidea with you or not; if you take the flower you fight a much harder boss (Shaymin-S) but if you manage to capture it, you will have a much stronger Pokemon than the much weaker Shaymin-L. Something similar could also be done with the Kyurem and Forces of Nature TLRs.

EDIT @ below: Yes, you can have all 3 Therian genies at once in-game with one reveal glass.
 
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IMO you can either put all three mons in the same TLR (choose a route or whatever) or create three revealing glasses, each one working for only one genie. Personally I prefer the second option as it makes it easier for the mechanics. But I suppose it is different from in-game?
 
Hey, so with Protean is there any reason it only works for damaging attacks other than that's just how it was implemented at the beginning of the gen? I couldn't find any discussion on it, but ingame Protean activates for any attack afaik.
 
[13:52:56] <Texas> emma
[13:53:06] <Texas> i'm 90% sure there was irc discussion on protean
[13:53:06] <elevator_music> ?
[13:53:11] <Texas> and after debate
[13:53:15] <Texas> it was decided on damaging attacks
[13:53:17] <Texas> for balance reasons
 
Would it be possible to get a status update/ETA on self reffing? It was approved here, nearly 5 months ago, and there has been little to no mention of it since.
 
Geodude6 said:
Would it be possible to get a status update/ETA on self reffing? It was approved here, nearly 5 months ago, and there has been little to no mention of it since.
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In 17 years. When only one person is working on the entire thing by himself and keeps on getting railroaded into working on other things, kind of hard to implement it whenever you bark for it.
 
RE Reveal Glass: Throwing support behind Mulan's idea and making it similar to Rotom Appliances like you can use it in no items (I should have done this with the three I recently implemented... -.-') and you do not have to equip it. Lot easier.

With regards to TLR, my intention was still to have the three genies separate but if you want Reveal Glass, then the boss encounter would be harder. Ideas for this include shape-shifting bosses in the hard mode encounter (Do not bring Physical Attackers against Landorus!!!) and yeah. Not that the Therians are really that useful relative to the Incarnate formes. Same thing would apply with Gracidea and any other Legendary Signatures. See: Soul Dew in The Planet's Fury.

Windswept Meadow needs to be revamped anyway with the introduction of Gracidea as an item.
 
From handbook:
Ruling said:
When both move priority and Speed are tied, the move that has the lower energy cost after all modifiers is performed first, with any ties at this point being resolved by coin flip.
Click to expand...
So I use something like Discharge and my opponent uses Sleep Talk to calls moves like Thunder Shock, Thunder, Discharge and Shock Wave. Who goes first? Then my opponent makes a substitution to say if you are awake then use Thunder Shock/Thunder and Discharge wakes them up before they use Sleep Talk. Who the hell is supposed to go first in this scenario? ?_?

IMO we should fix this for cases like Sleep Talk where the base en cost without the en cost of the called move is used for the Speed Tie resolution for clarification reasons and to avoid scenarios like the above. Who agrees?
 
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