Data ASB Feedback & Game Issues Thread - Mk III

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[15:46:22] <Texas> tbqh i think crits on multi hit moves are nerfed at +1
[15:46:25] <Texas> should be +2
[15:46:25] <dogfish44> Full BP
[15:46:31] <Texas> givent hat they really dont happen that often
[15:47:04] <Texas> even on a 5 hit
[15:47:10] <Texas> its only a 28% chance to crit once
[15:47:42] <Texas> not even factoring 2/3/4/5 hit odds
[15:47:45] * Redew|programming (~Redew@C23F7A61.E3B6706C.92AD6F89.IP) has joined
[15:47:50] <Texas> +2 would make more sense


I think that's reasonable for everything except Scope Lens Cincinno (which gives up king's rock)?
 
Overall you have about a 17.4% chance to crit with a multi-hit move, which is slightly less than 3 times that to crit with a normal move, with the crits doing 1/3 the bonus damage (but still keeping their screen-piercing effect). Looking at the fact that you can score multiple crits in multi-hit move, it seems perfectly fair to me as it is. Actually, multi-hit moves have stronger crits than normal moves, seeing as there is a chance of scoring multiple crits and that the main benefit from crits is breaking screens and defense boosts anyways.
 
I believe scoring a critical hit should not effectively double the BAP of that hit. Increasing the critical hit increase from 1 to 2 for all pokemon instead of just sniper pokemon would effectively double the BAP of hits for Arm Thrust, Barrage, Comet Punch, Double Slap, Fury Attack, Fury Swipes, Spike Cannon, and Water Shuriken.

You don't need Focus Energy for fairly reliable critical hits anymore. Scope lens turns every hit into a 50% chance for a crit.
 
[19:05:49] <@elevator_music> oh odd question
[19:06:01] <@elevator_music> do toggle abilities need to be toggled every time the pkmn is sent out?
[19:06:01] <Avnomke> ?
[19:06:05] <Avnomke> idk
[19:06:12] <Avnomke> they're confusing
[19:06:31] <&Its_A_Random> yeah
[19:06:38] <&Its_A_Random> that is what I do anyway
[19:09:25] <Matezoide> Ya just toggle it on every time
[19:09:28] <Matezoide> To be on the safe side


I don't think a rule for this is formally written anywhere. Can we add this to the handbook or something (or, if we decide not to have to toggle every time, add that instead. idc)?
 
There is no reason why multi-hit crits should be buffed under any circumstance especially when it results in an unnecessary Sniper buff that makes Pokémon like Mega Beedrill and Drapion to a lesser extent more powerful than they need to be. Also the obscure Barrage + Bullet Seed combo from Exeggutor is dumb enough as it is, no need to make it more stupid than it is now. Veto.

Elevator Music said:
[19:05:49] <@elevator_music> oh odd question
[19:06:01] <@elevator_music> do toggle abilities need to be toggled every time the pkmn is sent out?
[19:06:01] <Avnomke> ?
[19:06:05] <Avnomke> idk
[19:06:12] <Avnomke> they're confusing
[19:06:31] <&Its_A_Random> yeah
[19:06:38] <&Its_A_Random> that is what I do anyway
[19:09:25] <Matezoide> Ya just toggle it on every time
[19:09:28] <Matezoide> To be on the safe side


I don't think a rule for this is formally written anywhere. Can we add this to the handbook or something (or, if we decide not to have to toggle every time, add that instead. idc)?
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I went ahead with this. Also if a toggle ability that was toggled on is disabled by something like Gastro Acid, then it will be toggled on when it returns based on a ruling that had to be made for a raid.

Also is there any progress update on the ASB mentorship program we were meant to be implementing if at all?
 
Can we allow transfer of Magic Coat with the same priority of Protect (0 when protecting an ally)? To me it's a logical extension of Protect and it would be very easy to imagine as
 
Its_A_Random said:
There is no reason why multi-hit crits should be buffed under any circumstance especially when it results in an unnecessary Sniper buff that makes Pokémon like Mega Beedrill and Drapion to a lesser extent more powerful than they need to be. Also the obscure Barrage + Bullet Seed combo from Exeggutor is dumb enough as it is, no need to make it more stupid than it is now. Veto.
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I don't care that much if it goes through but that's really shitty reasoning.

>No reason to be buffed EVER
They may be underpowered???
>Makes Bee and Drap stronger than I like
Who are we to dictate which mons are 'good'? If Drapion is suddenly A- rank who cares? Good for drapion. It isn't breaking the game.
>BS+Barrage combo
I have no idea what this does


Clearly the game doesn't want this to happen and that's fine, but don't veto with such poor reasoning pls and ty
 
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Gerard said:
Can we allow transfer of Magic Coat with the same priority of Protect (0 when protecting an ally)? To me it's a logical extension of Protect and it would be very easy to imagine as
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But your gym is already broken :(

This is intriguing. There's no real precedent anywhere but it could logically happen and it would shift the game fairly dramatically

Also it would break the psyquic gym
 
The psychic gym has magic coat on everything already. It's more to use in TLRs and the like.
If you want to break Psychic Gym give me back Darm :(
 
passing magic coat seems....unnecessary. Falls under the category of "because we can" mechanic changes and, tbh, we are nowhere near the stage to start doing "because we can" changes. Perhaps if/when the metagame becomes stale?

Also, it increases the advantage of player ordering last, especially on doubles/triples (where said advantage is already ridiculous) and is yet another thing to sub for, while being, and I repeat it, vastly unnecessary. It will only enhance the flaws of our current battle system, not contribute to decreasing them and making the game less handicapped.
 
waterwarrior said:
Hey saying as we let Pokemon with Assault Vest use Chill, can we give that to Choice items as well? Really no reason not to, as really not being able to Chill is probably less sucky than being forced to Chill the entire round if you want to do it at all
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So yes or no on this? The likes on the post seemed to make it look like there was a good amount of support for it, and being able to go Earthquake -> Chill -> Earthquake when a mon is low on EN doesn't look like it will break Choice Band.
 
I would like some feedback/clarification on substitutions in doubles.

In my opinion "IF either pokemon uses X THEN Y" is two substutions. It can be broken down simply to "IF Pokemon A uses X THEN Y" and "IF Pokemon B uses X THEN Y".

What are peoples thoughts and understandings in regards to this?
 
By that logic, would "IF Wide Guard is used, do Y" be three substitutions in triples? Because it could be broken down to "IF Hitmontop uses Wide Guard, use Feint (Hitmontop) that action.", "IF Mantine uses Wide Guard, use Feint (Hitmontop) that action.", and "IF Revenankh uses Wide Guard, use Feint (Hitmontop) that action." Then again, Handbook is not 100% clear on this even though subs like that have been used in places like TLR a lot.

Then again there is a big counterexample that goes against the above where there are those who say "IF Volbeat is under the effects of (Protective/Evasive move) when you act, THEN use Feint (Volbeat) that action." and by definition of the handbook, that is illegal (You can sub for your mon having a condition but not an opponent having a condition).

So I guess you have a legitimate case there.
 
TBH I don't feel there is any problem with that sub. And if there is according to the rules, there is a big problem with the rules. If we are to specify the user of every move we want to counter (especially for moves like wide guard which don't change regardless of the user) then the number of subs we can use will go down the drain really really really fast.
 
Chinchou111 said:
In the dat can we put the altered weight classes for mons with heavy/light metal like we did in the old, on-site dat?
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It is in the process of being implemented. Would you like to be the single solitary individual responsible for calculating the Weight Class for every single Pokemon under the effects of Heavy Metal and calculating the Weight Class for every single Pokemon under the effects of Light Metal?
 
akela I think she meant that every Pokemon that NATURALLY has HM/LM should have their adjusted weight noted, not every single Pokemon in existence.
 
RE HM/LM and getting mons to list adjusted WC's: Then there is the Float Stone slippery slope...

Nobody might use Float Stone apart from the odd situational niche but you know what I mean.
 
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