This is a terrible argument imo, very rarely have I ever seen Musharna use more than 5 PP on Moonlight, and a lot of the time the person overused Moonlight. It does not need all 8 PP to effectively do its job, the fact that it can take hits so well limits the amount of times that it has to actually use Moonlight. If its a super long drawn out battle or Stall Fest, than yes that 8 PP might come into play, but at that point in the game you are just PP stalling anyways lol. This line is no where near good enough to argue for a not ban imo.
Those are my thoughts on the non-ban points, feel free to refute them ^.^
The suspect is proving if a pokemon is broken rather than arguing if the pokemon is not not broken, especcially when you where only disagree with the 'worst' arguement. Yes i did nitpick. I will asses the pro-ban points (this isnt aimed directly at mont):
This doesn't really sound like a strong point, but i do see what it means and it is true that it has the ability to switch into a ton of pokemon. This isnt exactly only to musharna, poliwrath does that as well, whilst walling the two best offensive mons in the tier, sneasel and costa (don't nitpick about hp grass pls). I do realise musharna has moonlight which is much more reliable than rest-talk, but does only have 8 pp (hue). The amount it switches into is also healthy for meta, being a last ditch check to physical attackers that run the tier (it still dislikes to switch into many, as an example, tauros cant 2hko normally, you cant ignore factors such as hazards and previous damage. It also has to be careful switching in, if you try and get in on a poliwrath, you might be toxic'd, which could ruin a possible sweep. There are more examples, but in the end this point just suggests it is a good physical wall.
- It's such a good catch-all check to random Pokemon.
Ill compare this to an anty-ban point:
- Little can OHKO it, let alone 2HKO it.
- Most types of teams have at least Pokemon that can handle it, so it doesn't limit teambuilding.
Although the pro-ban point is correct, the anty-ban point kind of covers it; there are common ways to deal with it. Standard pokes can beat it. Yes, sneasel doesnt OHKO, but living hits are common traits of walls and mush wont always be at 100% also moves like swords dance can stop mush from trying to moonlight t1 to take the stronger hit. Yes, the sneasel player has to predict, but they have the offensive momentum and advantage. Other stuff like marowak can switch in, knock off can do about 70% then eq does a solid 50%, you are immune to thunder wave as well. Marowak is one of the best offensive stealth rocks so its not a rare mon.@ Galbia has already made a good point about it:
"Even if musharna is at full health every teamstyle has its ways of beating it with stall teams having Haze and Taunt users (and dark types LOL), balanced teams having all sorts of mid-late game sweepers that can beat it even if it is at +1 like Bouffalant, Sneasel, Scyther, Carracosta + Taunt Misdreavus/Subdisable Haunter+ Random phazers/status/whatever and offensive teams have offensive pressure from any kind of special attacker, entry hazards, and the setup sweepers above."
I feel the setting up part is more the focus here, not only because baton pass is another point, but also because i feel its the main pro ban point. This is true, but i don't think mush does this to the extent that it is broken. Firstly, in the previous paragraph i have mentioned, and quoted galbia, about checks that fit into offensive teams. They pretty much have one of these (shoot me i generalised), but seriously, they are not hard to fit into a team in order to check mush. All teams should have checks to every threat, its fine replacing a mon on your team to another one who can check a top tier poke. Getting 6-0'd to musharna, just as getting 6-0'd by deddene, shows bad team building. (i also forgot to mention pokes which defence has to beat it. Not only do they have phaser, which stop BP and self sweeping, also pokes like Bastiodon flat out wall it)
- Can set up pretty easily against most of the tier, and even pass the boosts.
I strongly disagree with this point. 'Versitily', it isn't hard to scout whether it has thunder wave or calm mind, its not like charizard who you sometimes have to sac a poke to scout if its mega-x or mega-y (don't nitpick this either, there are flaws in this comparison).
- It's sheer versatility allows it to work for any kind of team. It fulfills so many roles its ridiculous. Some of the roles it fills can even stack on the same set.
I don't think this is a very ban-able offence. Pivot'ing has always been good for walls to help punish switch ins, for example look at bw2 celebii, who ran baton pass just so it didn't get trapped by ttar. As a boost passer, i find togetic to be much more threatening, who also has enough opportunities to set up, but i'm much more afraid of a +2 spatk zebstrika than i am of a +1spa +1spdef zebstrika. Every mon can switch out of their checks and counters with a predicted double switch, you just have to be more careful
- Baton Pass alone allows it to do many things, from passing boosts, to pivoting into teammates, to escaping its checks and counters.
This is frankly not true. Your going to find it hard breaking through bastiodon/klang/wormadam-t, let a loan not getting revenge kill'd by pokemon such as marowak/sneasel. This is not true for any pokemon. I also don't think that needing team support should be held against it either.
- It doesn't rely too much on its teammates or support to beat its checks and counters, and it has its own answers to them as well.
I also feel like i have addressed the anty-ban points in my post. Although i went for a pretty anti approach there, the pro-ban arguments are legit and i can see why people think that it is broken, i just don't think the arguments are strong enough to justify a ban