Hmm mega scizor, it gets walled by a lot of things and unable to KO them, like ferro, but it has a nice attack stat + access to Bullet Punch, which might save you in a couple of cases, so I'm guessing B would fit better
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Battle Spot Singles Viability Rankings
- Thread starter Age of Kings
- Start date
I think Pinsirs are running feint over quick attack these days to outdue other priority in the meta since feint is +2, not necessarily to bop protects.
Backing up what NOVED said, Feint outclasses Quick Attack due to the higher priority, so it hits before things like Talonflame's Brave Bird, Lucario's Bullet Punch, Extreme Speed from slower poke's (unboosted Dragonite), Jolly Kangaskhan's (if your Pinsir is Adamant) Sucker Punch or Ice Shard from something like Weavile or Cloyster after a Shell Smash so you can finish them off. Also Aerilate gives it the 30% power boost and Flying STAB so the power drop from Quick Attack is negligible...
But yeah B is good imo
I'm curious as to what people think about Togekiss. I run a physically defensive set (252 HP/252 Def/4 SpD, Thunder Wave, Air Slash, Roost and Dazzling Gleam) and it does pretty damn well against M-Kang for one, withstanding any unboosted attack and crippling with T-Wave, then roosting off the damage and commencing flinch-hax. Standard Jolly SD Garchomp needs a 3HKO with Stone Miss against it factoring in Leftovers recovery, while Togekiss has a guaranteed 2HKO if it runs Dazzling Gleam in it's fourth moveslot. It can even withstand an unboosted max atk/spa Iron Head/Flash Cannon from Aegislash and at least cripple it, though it'll lose the matchup (and get smashed to bits if Weakness Policy already activated). It can also cripple or roost-stall the common CB Talonflame variant out, while it's matchup with Blaziken is a toss up, but slightly favorable, I think.
It's biggest cons are that Charizard-X/Y can cleanly 2HKO without setting up, and M-Mawile can cleanly OHKO. And of course, the matchup with Aegi is still in the latter's favor. I'd nominate it for at least B-/C+ rank, as it can effectively run that physically defensive set, specially defensive just as well (though I'd argue p.def is better for this meta), grant some cleric support, and even go for nasty plot.
It's biggest cons are that Charizard-X/Y can cleanly 2HKO without setting up, and M-Mawile can cleanly OHKO. And of course, the matchup with Aegi is still in the latter's favor. I'd nominate it for at least B-/C+ rank, as it can effectively run that physically defensive set, specially defensive just as well (though I'd argue p.def is better for this meta), grant some cleric support, and even go for nasty plot.
Nominating Mega-Aggron for B or B-
Maggron, I believe, is a very solid poke in the current meta. With a colossal defense stat and a damage reducing ability (on SE hits), M-Aggron can eat up physical hits even uninvested. Mega Aggron can easily live hits from some of the most threatening physical attackers and dish out huge damage in return. Running something akin to Sleep Talk/Counter/Iron Head or Heavy Slam/Rock Slide can directly respond to big threats such as Talonflame and Breloom, among others. A more offensive set can be used as well, relying on Maggron's considerable natural bulk to sponge hits. Finally, a fully defensive set can be run with Stealth Rocks to break sashes and bop Talonflame for 50% on switch in.
I'm nominating this for B because it's definitely not without faults and feels very similar to the only current B rank, Slowbro (defensive poke that can also dent things relatively well). Being a defensive mega, it is prone to being worn down. Yes, you can run RestTalk for recovery but regardless, it still doesn't take too kindly to hits on the special side. Also, M-Aggron loses pretty badly to Ferro in a lot of situations.
On a side note, Counter is absolutely a gimmicky move and is really only viable due to the lack of sub+set up pokes that I've seen.
Nominating Sableye for c+ or b-
Sableye is one of the few 'mons that can stop mega kangaskhan in its tracks. With prankster all status moves goes first, meaning that Sableye can go for will-i-wisp and wear down threats like azumarill, mega Kangaskhan, mega Pinsir, Breloom and countless others. In addition to that, Mega kangaskhan Can't touch Sableye unless its not mega with scrappy but who runs that. To add on to its pretty large tool box it learns taunt, with i must admit isn't as good in singles ad it is in doubles but does have pretty good use at times. As well as taunt it gets recover, so its pretty much like this if sableye takes any damage on the turn it goes for will-o-wisp it can go for the recover first the following turn. The only downs sides i can come up with for Sableye (off the top of my head) is fire-types. These thing destroy Sableye completely. Next are strong special attackers, Things like Mega Charizard-Y, mega Manectric, and Greninja let Sableye have it. They are also a pain for Sableye to deal with since Will-o-Wisp's attack drop. Its bad stats don't help it either but for the most part, What Sableye can do makes up for this. The final thing is its Reliance on will-o-wisp, If will-o misses Sableye doesn't have a lot of bulk to fall back on. Despite all these Flaws Sableye i think deserves a c+ rank at least.
Sableye is one of the few 'mons that can stop mega kangaskhan in its tracks. With prankster all status moves goes first, meaning that Sableye can go for will-i-wisp and wear down threats like azumarill, mega Kangaskhan, mega Pinsir, Breloom and countless others. In addition to that, Mega kangaskhan Can't touch Sableye unless its not mega with scrappy but who runs that. To add on to its pretty large tool box it learns taunt, with i must admit isn't as good in singles ad it is in doubles but does have pretty good use at times. As well as taunt it gets recover, so its pretty much like this if sableye takes any damage on the turn it goes for will-o-wisp it can go for the recover first the following turn. The only downs sides i can come up with for Sableye (off the top of my head) is fire-types. These thing destroy Sableye completely. Next are strong special attackers, Things like Mega Charizard-Y, mega Manectric, and Greninja let Sableye have it. They are also a pain for Sableye to deal with since Will-o-Wisp's attack drop. Its bad stats don't help it either but for the most part, What Sableye can do makes up for this. The final thing is its Reliance on will-o-wisp, If will-o misses Sableye doesn't have a lot of bulk to fall back on. Despite all these Flaws Sableye i think deserves a c+ rank at least.
Just noticed this and totally agree, but not for A+, I think it could stay A- due to the fact that it can't do anything to anything that outspeeds besides bullet punch, but other than that, with 1 Swords Dance up, it can OHKO almost anything with Close Combat, it gets that nifty priority and could run ice punch as a filler, really packs a punch.Mega Lucario for A+. Mega Lucario is one of the most threatening sweepers. I've been using the physical set with SD, EQ, and Bullet Punch and it's amazing how much power this thing has. It plows through offensive teams, and vs defensive teams, it can either tear holes for a teammate or clean up a weakened team. Mega Lucario is definitely one of the most anti-meta mons atm and I think it deserves A+ Rank.
I'd support sableye for B-. It's basically a hard counter to mega kan which not many mons, if any, can say and priority wisp is really helpful in this meta. Taunt is really good too and can put mons like Cress, Aegi etc in sticky positions. Prankster recover makes it pretty good at it's job too.
But it's not like Sableye has amazing stats or anything. It sort of relies on wisp for most of it's bulk so B- seems fairly nice and I wouldn't put it any higher.
Also supporting Mega Lucario for A. Very few switch ins to this thing and it has good speed too. Aside from scarfers theres not too many mons that can check it after an SD either. But it has sort of poor bulk and aegi can deal with it decently too.
I would say Mega luc for A rank. This thing is a power house of course. If you don't have anything to your speed this then you may as well forfeit. The thing is mega lucario has a problem with Aegisalsh. Aegislash can switch in and set up freely and nto have to worry about a thing as it isn't going to take hardly any damage at all. It has a but of a problem with thing that can outspeed it but this isn't THAT big of an issue but can be irritating at time. The final thing is that (depending on the set and situation) Talonflame can get a free switch and Knock it out. now if mega it is packing ES. without a boost it isn't going to to jack. With a swords dance/Nasty plot under Mega Luc's belt this thing is almost unbeatable and is a good option for almost any team.
I can see this, mainly because of it's MASSIVE Tankness. But really anything special can kill it.
Nominating Mega-Aggron for B or B-
Even though it can take hits, and hit kind of hard back, It really can be used in the right way. Like you said with counter, it really is gimmicky and is not trust worthy.
So overall, I agree with your nomination.
I wouldn't say aegi is that much of a counter. It can't just set up in front of Mega Luc. It pretty much has to attack it right away imo. Mega Luc can run Crunch if it wants, and at +2 it just barely misses out on an OHKO so Aegi can't really afford to set up just in case Luc is running Dark Pulse or Crunch. But Shadow Ball can kill luc with little chip damage and is a guranteed ohko when luc is at -1.
Proposing to put Dragonite on the list at either B+/A-
Dragonite's DD set (Lum + DD/ESpeed/Outrage/Equake) destroys a large amount of the pokemon here (Aegislash, Thundurus, Terrakion, MGengar) while its other set, CB (CB + TPunch or Equake/Superpower/Outrage/ESpeed) Destroys the other pokemon not obliterated by the other set (Ferrothorn, MKangaskhan, MCharY & X, and depending on whether you go Equake or TPunch either MMawile or Azumarill, respectively).
Dragonite's versatility with in addition to its ridiculous bulk allow it to check a large part of the meta or sweep it. The only two pokemon that can fully OHKO it through Multiscale are Greninja and Mega Mawile. For Mega Mawile the CB set can easily tank a Sucker Punch and OHKO with Equake, while if the DD set is at +1 it also OHKO's MMawile. For Greninja, the DD set outspeeds it at +1 and easily wastes it with Outrage. On the CB set, Dragonite's Extremespeed does extremespeed does roughly 75% so if greninja has a substantial amount of prior damage (see: Life Orb), it will quickly succumb to an extremespeed from CB Dragonite.
Dragonite's DD set (Lum + DD/ESpeed/Outrage/Equake) destroys a large amount of the pokemon here (Aegislash, Thundurus, Terrakion, MGengar) while its other set, CB (CB + TPunch or Equake/Superpower/Outrage/ESpeed) Destroys the other pokemon not obliterated by the other set (Ferrothorn, MKangaskhan, MCharY & X, and depending on whether you go Equake or TPunch either MMawile or Azumarill, respectively).
Dragonite's versatility with in addition to its ridiculous bulk allow it to check a large part of the meta or sweep it. The only two pokemon that can fully OHKO it through Multiscale are Greninja and Mega Mawile. For Mega Mawile the CB set can easily tank a Sucker Punch and OHKO with Equake, while if the DD set is at +1 it also OHKO's MMawile. For Greninja, the DD set outspeeds it at +1 and easily wastes it with Outrage. On the CB set, Dragonite's Extremespeed does extremespeed does roughly 75% so if greninja has a substantial amount of prior damage (see: Life Orb), it will quickly succumb to an extremespeed from CB Dragonite.
Proposing to put gyarados/mega gyarados at a or a+
Gyarados is quite versatile overall. The ability to sweep with moxie+DD is very strong, and forcing out switches with intimidate and its huge natural bulk can cause problems for the opponent. In addition, the change from water/flying to water/dark forces a lot of mind games. Hope this helps. HF on battle spot!
Gyarados is quite versatile overall. The ability to sweep with moxie+DD is very strong, and forcing out switches with intimidate and its huge natural bulk can cause problems for the opponent. In addition, the change from water/flying to water/dark forces a lot of mind games. Hope this helps. HF on battle spot!
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I was looking up the usage stats for BS Singles and I decided that putting the link here would be convenient for everyone who's thinking of nominating a Pokémon - how well they do against the names in this link define their viability, after all.
Here's the Top 20 at a glance:
Here's the Top 20 at a glance:
Code:
+ ---- + ------------------ + --------- + ------ + ------- + ------ + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon | Usage % | Raw | % | Real | % |
+ ---- + ------------------ + --------- + ------ + ------- + ------ + ------- +
| 1 | Gengar | 29.28838% | 46824 | 17.790% | 20679 | 17.369% |
| 2 | Garchomp | 26.53892% | 45562 | 17.311% | 21213 | 17.818% |
| 3 | Kangaskhan | 25.59047% | 35899 | 13.639% | 19519 | 16.395% |
| 4 | Talonflame | 23.60423% | 43076 | 16.366% | 19389 | 16.286% |
| 5 | Aegislash | 18.87590% | 32202 | 12.235% | 13694 | 11.502% |
| 6 | Azumarill | 18.87044% | 33594 | 12.763% | 13441 | 11.290% |
| 7 | Landorus-Therian | 16.33418% | 17029 | 6.470% | 9382 | 7.880% |
| 8 | Cresselia | 15.95215% | 17970 | 6.827% | 8309 | 6.979% |
| 9 | Thundurus | 14.76085% | 15900 | 6.041% | 7654 | 6.429% |
| 10 | Breloom | 14.51465% | 24161 | 9.180% | 10498 | 8.818% |
| 11 | Heatran | 14.18270% | 17952 | 6.821% | 7790 | 6.543% |
| 12 | Tyranitar | 13.45358% | 24856 | 9.444% | 10855 | 9.118% |
| 13 | Charizard | 13.21727% | 36770 | 13.970% | 19663 | 16.516% |
| 14 | Suicune | 12.55653% | 11199 | 4.255% | 4663 | 3.917% |
| 15 | Blaziken | 11.67450% | 25111 | 9.541% | 13682 | 11.492% |
| 16 | Ferrothorn | 11.36954% | 23736 | 9.018% | 10707 | 8.993% |
| 17 | Scizor | 11.23457% | 22080 | 8.389% | 8822 | 7.410% |
| 18 | Zapdos | 10.47502% | 12917 | 4.908% | 6262 | 5.260% |
| 19 | Rotom-Wash | 10.25685% | 20876 | 7.931% | 10250 | 8.609% |
| 20 | Dragonite | 10.05099% | 26127 | 9.927% | 11425 | 9.596% |I think it's somewhat important to note the differences in usage between the sim and on-cart, while they are mostly the same (and the PGL only lists the top 12 unfortunately) there are a couple differences. This I would assume is because of the ease of access to certain things on the sim and the Japanese player base skewing the PGL a bit.
A couple examples are:
A couple examples are:
- Neither Landorus or Thundurus are in the top 12
- Charizard, Blaziken, Gyarados, Tyranitar and Rotom-W are significantly more popular, being at # 8 - 12 respectively. Gyarados isn't even on the sim top 20
Can we get an update on this pls :)
Also can we just throw in common Pokemon in Battle Spot that aren't yet ranked onto the viability rankings in a general place that you judge to be accurate. I feel like this would promote a lot more discussion because while trying to think of things to nom, not looking at a list is hard. While if I look at the OP and am like why is X so low I feel like it should be here or why is Y so high it should be here. It's just easier to place things when I see them ranked.
Also can we just throw in common Pokemon in Battle Spot that aren't yet ranked onto the viability rankings in a general place that you judge to be accurate. I feel like this would promote a lot more discussion because while trying to think of things to nom, not looking at a list is hard. While if I look at the OP and am like why is X so low I feel like it should be here or why is Y so high it should be here. It's just easier to place things when I see them ranked.
Sorry for the radio silence everyone, I truly apologize.
I updated the OP with:
Mega Pinsir to B
Sableye to B-
Mega Aggron to B
Both Gyarados to A
Mega Luke to A-; It's a glass cannon in the truest sense of the word and while it's strong, it's not always a practical choice in a meta that is favorable to bulky offense. Base form having terrible speed for something so frail is a major con as well. Even regular Mawile has better opportunities to get on the field than Luke. Not trying to be all doom and gloom but I believe that it deserves A- rather than A or A+.
Tyranitar to A; I'm not the greatest fan and has common weaknesses but DD Megatar is a monster after just one boost and is one of the better anti-weather in the meta. Really, for most special threats especially those that don't run Focus Blast for coverage, Tyranitar is generally a good starting point as a check.
Landorus-T to A; hasn't really been talked about but remains one of the best users of Scarf in the meta imo along with being a great Intimidator.
With that, Montsegur, I believe all of the most common mons have been addressed except for maybe Greninja, but I am too biased to make a judgment on that one lol. I don't think it's the worst mon but definitely something extremely prone to being used improperly so I'm going to defer that one to others.
Regarding Dragonite: I would agree with it in B+, the reason being that it doesn't offer the fantastic dual-STAB that Garchomp does. SD Chomp does run Outrage but the important thing is that it has the option to weaken potential Outrage soaks with EQ whereas Dragonite can't necessarily do that after only a DD. ES is fun but not the best tradeoff for this, although Dragonite does significantly better against the lot of frail and fragile mons. That being said, I think that Weakness Policy is underutilized, it's the best user after Aegi and even if you get rid of Multiscale, it can soak one of the multitudes of weaker non-STAB HP Ice/Rock Slide/etc.
Blurbs will come as I can make them but if anyone has further input, lemme know.
I updated the OP with:
Mega Pinsir to B
Sableye to B-
Mega Aggron to B
Both Gyarados to A
Mega Luke to A-; It's a glass cannon in the truest sense of the word and while it's strong, it's not always a practical choice in a meta that is favorable to bulky offense. Base form having terrible speed for something so frail is a major con as well. Even regular Mawile has better opportunities to get on the field than Luke. Not trying to be all doom and gloom but I believe that it deserves A- rather than A or A+.
Tyranitar to A; I'm not the greatest fan and has common weaknesses but DD Megatar is a monster after just one boost and is one of the better anti-weather in the meta. Really, for most special threats especially those that don't run Focus Blast for coverage, Tyranitar is generally a good starting point as a check.
Landorus-T to A; hasn't really been talked about but remains one of the best users of Scarf in the meta imo along with being a great Intimidator.
With that, Montsegur, I believe all of the most common mons have been addressed except for maybe Greninja, but I am too biased to make a judgment on that one lol. I don't think it's the worst mon but definitely something extremely prone to being used improperly so I'm going to defer that one to others.
Regarding Dragonite: I would agree with it in B+, the reason being that it doesn't offer the fantastic dual-STAB that Garchomp does. SD Chomp does run Outrage but the important thing is that it has the option to weaken potential Outrage soaks with EQ whereas Dragonite can't necessarily do that after only a DD. ES is fun but not the best tradeoff for this, although Dragonite does significantly better against the lot of frail and fragile mons. That being said, I think that Weakness Policy is underutilized, it's the best user after Aegi and even if you get rid of Multiscale, it can soak one of the multitudes of weaker non-STAB HP Ice/Rock Slide/etc.
Blurbs will come as I can make them but if anyone has further input, lemme know.
there is such a small amount of pokemon on this list.
goodra should be at B. its great typing combined with 150 spdef lets it flat out counter a huge amount of special attackers. dragon pulse, EQ, powerwhip and fire blast gets great coverage. sap sipper allows it to directly counter vivillion and check ferrothorn but goodra should watch out for a gyro ball on the switch.
rhyperior should be at B. it beats a ridiculously large amount of pokemon 1 on 1 and is a good and bulky stealth rock user.
a moveset of stone edge, earthquake, avalanche, roar allows it to beat the following pokemon:
goodra should be at B. its great typing combined with 150 spdef lets it flat out counter a huge amount of special attackers. dragon pulse, EQ, powerwhip and fire blast gets great coverage. sap sipper allows it to directly counter vivillion and check ferrothorn but goodra should watch out for a gyro ball on the switch.
greninja
252+ SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 133-156 (34.6 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 SpA Goodra Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 228-270 (79.7 - 94.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO(this is after turning ice type from protean)
manectric
252+ SpA Mega Manectric Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 56-66 (14.5 - 17.1%) -- possible 6HKO
0 Atk Goodra Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Manectric: 172-204 (61.2 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
mega charizard y
252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 86-102 (22.3 - 26.5%) -- 14.2% chance to 4HKO
if you want to target charizard y specifically t-bolt can be used.
4 SpA Goodra Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 126-150 (42.4 - 50.5%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
mega gengar
252+ SpA Mega Gengar Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 86-102 (22.3 - 26.5%) -- 14.2% chance to 4HKO
0 Atk Goodra Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gengar: 174-206 (66.4 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
heatran
252+ SpA Heatran Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 52-63 (13.5 - 16.4%) -- possible 7HKO
0 Atk Goodra Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 272-324 (84.2 - 100.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
politoed
252+ SpA Politoed Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 62-74 (16.1 - 19.2%) -- possible 6HKO
0 Atk Goodra Power Whip vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Politoed: 218-258 (59.8 - 70.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
thundurus-T
252+ SpA Thundurus-T Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 56-68 (14.5 - 17.7%) -- possible 6HKO
dragon pulse 3HKOs but ice beam can be used to target thundurus-T
4 SpA Goodra Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus-T: 170-202 (56.6 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
mega ampharos
252+ SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 134-158 (34.8 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 SpA Goodra Dragon Pulse vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Mega Ampharos: 186-218 (52.5 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Life Orb Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 133-156 (34.6 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 SpA Goodra Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Greninja: 228-270 (79.7 - 94.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO(this is after turning ice type from protean)
manectric
252+ SpA Mega Manectric Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 56-66 (14.5 - 17.1%) -- possible 6HKO
0 Atk Goodra Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Manectric: 172-204 (61.2 - 72.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
mega charizard y
252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 86-102 (22.3 - 26.5%) -- 14.2% chance to 4HKO
if you want to target charizard y specifically t-bolt can be used.
4 SpA Goodra Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y: 126-150 (42.4 - 50.5%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
mega gengar
252+ SpA Mega Gengar Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 86-102 (22.3 - 26.5%) -- 14.2% chance to 4HKO
0 Atk Goodra Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gengar: 174-206 (66.4 - 78.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
heatran
252+ SpA Heatran Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 52-63 (13.5 - 16.4%) -- possible 7HKO
0 Atk Goodra Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 272-324 (84.2 - 100.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
politoed
252+ SpA Politoed Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 62-74 (16.1 - 19.2%) -- possible 6HKO
0 Atk Goodra Power Whip vs. 172 HP / 0 Def Politoed: 218-258 (59.8 - 70.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
thundurus-T
252+ SpA Thundurus-T Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 56-68 (14.5 - 17.7%) -- possible 6HKO
dragon pulse 3HKOs but ice beam can be used to target thundurus-T
4 SpA Goodra Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus-T: 170-202 (56.6 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
mega ampharos
252+ SpA Mold Breaker Mega Ampharos Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Goodra: 134-158 (34.8 - 41.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 SpA Goodra Dragon Pulse vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Mega Ampharos: 186-218 (52.5 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
rhyperior should be at B. it beats a ridiculously large amount of pokemon 1 on 1 and is a good and bulky stealth rock user.
a moveset of stone edge, earthquake, avalanche, roar allows it to beat the following pokemon:
garchomp/mega garchomp
252+ Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 163-193 (37.5 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery4
252+ Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 198-234 (45.6 - 53.9%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Rhyperior Avalanche vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 412-488 (98 - 116.1%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
mega charizard x
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rhyperior: 172-204 (39.6 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 264-312 (88.8 - 105%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
mega pinsir
252+ Atk Mega Pinsir Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 147-174 (33.8 - 40%) -- 30.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Rhyperior Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Pinsir: 496-588 (183 - 216.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
talonflame
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rhyperior: 71-84 (16.3 - 19.3%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Rhyperior Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 760-900 (255.8 - 303%) -- guaranteed OHKO
staraptor
252+ Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 183-216 (42.1 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Rhyperior Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Staraptor: 386-456 (124.1 - 146.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
arcanine
252+ Atk Life Orb Arcanine Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 150-177 (34.5 - 40.7%) -- 56.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Arcanine: 348-410 (108.4 - 127.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
aegislash
252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 109-129 (25.1 - 29.7%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 204-242 (62.9 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
rhyperior is slower, so its more likely that earthquake would hit while its in blade form, unless aegislash is running minimum speed.
landorus-T
if lando switches on rhyperior and intimidates it, avalanche is a 2HKO. if rhyperior comes in on lando, avalanche can OHKO.
4 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 135-159 (31.1 - 36.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Rhyperior Avalanche vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 360-424 (94.2 - 110.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
bisharp
252+ Atk Bisharp Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 126-150 (29 - 34.5%) -- 99.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Bisharp: 288-342 (106.2 - 126.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
cloyster
252+ Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 165-200 (38 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Rhyperior Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Cloyster: 174-206 (72.1 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
mega tyranitar
252+ Atk Mega Tyranitar Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 127-151 (29.2 - 34.7%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Tyranitar: 204-242 (59.8 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
tyranitar doesnt even break through at +1.
dragonite
252+ Atk Dragonite Aqua Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 201-237 (46.3 - 54.6%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Rhyperior Avalanche vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 240-284 (74.3 - 87.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
and dragonite users never run aqua tail so they will only be doing less than 30% with EQ
salamence
252+ Atk Salamence Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 111-132 (25.5 - 30.4%) -- 0.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Rhyperior Avalanche vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Salamence: 556-656 (167.9 - 198.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
terrakion
252+ Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 193-229 (44.4 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 318-374 (98.4 - 115.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
coballion
252+ Atk Cobalion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 153-180 (35.2 - 41.4%) -- 68.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Cobalion: 234-276 (72.4 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
klefki(immunity to prankster t-wave is nice)
0 Atk Klefki Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rhyperior: 49-58 (11.2 - 13.3%) -- possibly the worst move ever
4 Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Klefki: 222-264 (69.8 - 83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
mega blaziken(can switch in on a predicted flare blitz)
252+ Atk Mega Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 244-289 (56.2 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Blaziken: 348-410 (115.2 - 135.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
mega lucario(physical sets only, though rhyperior cant switch in. it can only serve as an emergency check)
252+ Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 282-333 (64.9 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Lucario: 320-380 (113.8 - 135.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 163-193 (37.5 - 44.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery4
252+ Atk Mega Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 198-234 (45.6 - 53.9%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Rhyperior Avalanche vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Garchomp: 412-488 (98 - 116.1%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
mega charizard x
252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rhyperior: 172-204 (39.6 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard X: 264-312 (88.8 - 105%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
mega pinsir
252+ Atk Mega Pinsir Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 147-174 (33.8 - 40%) -- 30.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Rhyperior Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Pinsir: 496-588 (183 - 216.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
talonflame
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rhyperior: 71-84 (16.3 - 19.3%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Rhyperior Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 760-900 (255.8 - 303%) -- guaranteed OHKO
staraptor
252+ Atk Choice Band Staraptor Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 183-216 (42.1 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Rhyperior Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Staraptor: 386-456 (124.1 - 146.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
arcanine
252+ Atk Life Orb Arcanine Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 150-177 (34.5 - 40.7%) -- 56.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Arcanine: 348-410 (108.4 - 127.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
aegislash
252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 109-129 (25.1 - 29.7%) -- 0% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 204-242 (62.9 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
rhyperior is slower, so its more likely that earthquake would hit while its in blade form, unless aegislash is running minimum speed.
landorus-T
if lando switches on rhyperior and intimidates it, avalanche is a 2HKO. if rhyperior comes in on lando, avalanche can OHKO.
4 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 135-159 (31.1 - 36.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Rhyperior Avalanche vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 360-424 (94.2 - 110.9%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
bisharp
252+ Atk Bisharp Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 126-150 (29 - 34.5%) -- 99.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Bisharp: 288-342 (106.2 - 126.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
cloyster
252+ Atk Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 165-200 (38 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Rhyperior Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Cloyster: 174-206 (72.1 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
mega tyranitar
252+ Atk Mega Tyranitar Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 127-151 (29.2 - 34.7%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Tyranitar: 204-242 (59.8 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
tyranitar doesnt even break through at +1.
dragonite
252+ Atk Dragonite Aqua Tail vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 201-237 (46.3 - 54.6%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Rhyperior Avalanche vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 240-284 (74.3 - 87.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
and dragonite users never run aqua tail so they will only be doing less than 30% with EQ
salamence
252+ Atk Salamence Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 111-132 (25.5 - 30.4%) -- 0.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Rhyperior Avalanche vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Salamence: 556-656 (167.9 - 198.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
terrakion
252+ Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 193-229 (44.4 - 52.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 318-374 (98.4 - 115.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
coballion
252+ Atk Cobalion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 153-180 (35.2 - 41.4%) -- 68.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Cobalion: 234-276 (72.4 - 85.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
klefki(immunity to prankster t-wave is nice)
0 Atk Klefki Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rhyperior: 49-58 (11.2 - 13.3%) -- possibly the worst move ever
4 Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Klefki: 222-264 (69.8 - 83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
mega blaziken(can switch in on a predicted flare blitz)
252+ Atk Mega Blaziken High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 244-289 (56.2 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Blaziken: 348-410 (115.2 - 135.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
mega lucario(physical sets only, though rhyperior cant switch in. it can only serve as an emergency check)
252+ Atk Adaptability Mega Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 282-333 (64.9 - 76.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Rhyperior Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Lucario: 320-380 (113.8 - 135.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I agree that Goodra has it's place (maybe B-) as it has usable physical defense and an offensive presence to compliment it's bulk, it can also run several different viable sets, giving it an element of surprise. Not sure I agree with Rhyperior being that high though, it only has one usable niche in being a physical defensive check to a few things. It's so slow that after it checks one thing it'll be so low on health that it will be dead weight and have to be sacrificed. It also has horrible special defense meaning that pretty much every thing you listed in the calcs would just switch out and bring in a special attacker and force you out or just flat out kill you. One calc stood out to me..
Just wanted to point out that (while viable) physical Aegislash is no where near as popular as the special set which destroys Rhyperior with Flash Cannon. Physical sets may also have Iron Head which ofc does more damage than Sacred Sword. All that aside, the calc with +0 Aegi hitting Rhyperior with Sacred Sword is (imo) unrealistic as the smart Aegislash player will Swords Dance on the Earthquake which will activate its Weakness Policy giving it +4 attack.
+4 252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Sacred Sword vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rhyperior: 226-266 (101.8 - 119.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
or...
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rhyperior: 270-318 (121.6 - 143.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
edit: whoops! Did these without Solid Rock. Rhyperior can in fact tank a +4 Sacred Sword (not Iron Head though). +0 Flash Cannon does not ohko either, +2 does though
So both Aegi sets walk all over Rhyperior (especially the physical one as you've just given it +4 attack to abuse Shadow Sneak with). Also, all Aegislash run minimum speed (unless you're crazy and run Autotomize). A few other calcs seemed a bit weird.. +0 Char-X using Outrage seems a bit unrealistic as well, they will almost always have a Dragon Dance under their belt first, or in a lead matchup they will probably just switch out. They also run Earthquake as a coverage move. None of Pinsir, TFlame, Staraptor, Arcanine, Bisharp or Mega Blaziken will stay in on Rhyperior either. Cloyster will more often than not already have a Shell Smash boost and usually has Surf or Waterfall which will Destroy you. I've never seen Cobalion on the ladder, and which Kelfki user is going for Play Rough over Reflect / Foul Play in front a Rhyperior? It just seems you've found a bunch of calcs that were favourable to Rhyperior but didn't actually show anything meaningful. I would say C / C- at best
edit: I honestly think Rhyperior is a worse version of Avalugg. They serve basically the same role except Avalugg has access to Recover to troll physical attackers with Rocky Helmet and increase its longevity, and it has Mirror Coat + Sturdy so it can at least make use of it's pathetic special defence
Just wanted to point out that (while viable) physical Aegislash is no where near as popular as the special set which destroys Rhyperior with Flash Cannon. Physical sets may also have Iron Head which ofc does more damage than Sacred Sword. All that aside, the calc with +0 Aegi hitting Rhyperior with Sacred Sword is (imo) unrealistic as the smart Aegislash player will Swords Dance on the Earthquake which will activate its Weakness Policy giving it +4 attack.
or...
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rhyperior: 270-318 (121.6 - 143.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
edit: whoops! Did these without Solid Rock. Rhyperior can in fact tank a +4 Sacred Sword (not Iron Head though). +0 Flash Cannon does not ohko either, +2 does though
So both Aegi sets walk all over Rhyperior (especially the physical one as you've just given it +4 attack to abuse Shadow Sneak with). Also, all Aegislash run minimum speed (unless you're crazy and run Autotomize). A few other calcs seemed a bit weird.. +0 Char-X using Outrage seems a bit unrealistic as well, they will almost always have a Dragon Dance under their belt first, or in a lead matchup they will probably just switch out. They also run Earthquake as a coverage move. None of Pinsir, TFlame, Staraptor, Arcanine, Bisharp or Mega Blaziken will stay in on Rhyperior either. Cloyster will more often than not already have a Shell Smash boost and usually has Surf or Waterfall which will Destroy you. I've never seen Cobalion on the ladder, and which Kelfki user is going for Play Rough over Reflect / Foul Play in front a Rhyperior? It just seems you've found a bunch of calcs that were favourable to Rhyperior but didn't actually show anything meaningful. I would say C / C- at best
edit: I honestly think Rhyperior is a worse version of Avalugg. They serve basically the same role except Avalugg has access to Recover to troll physical attackers with Rocky Helmet and increase its longevity, and it has Mirror Coat + Sturdy so it can at least make use of it's pathetic special defence
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Wanting for Gallade to go to B. Ive ben using it a lot lately, and its been a huge help, so lemme get the facts straight:
Pros:
-Large movepooll makes it very unpredictable
-Great SpD at base 115 takes hits well even with no investment
-STAB CC in a metagame filled with T-Tar and Mega kangaskhan is awesome
-Knock off user
-Efficiantly runs scarf, but assault vest is a good item as well
-Priority in Shadow sneak
-125 Base Atk is pretty good
-Great revenge killer
Cons:
-Talonflame weak
-Poor physical Def
-4 MSS
-Needs jolly nature to outspeed Mega Gengar
-Weak to paralasis and Burn
-Weak to intimidate
-Zen headmiss
Overall i think B is a good tier for Gallade. Lots of pluses, but i think A might be too much.
Pros:
-Large movepooll makes it very unpredictable
-Great SpD at base 115 takes hits well even with no investment
-STAB CC in a metagame filled with T-Tar and Mega kangaskhan is awesome
-Knock off user
-Efficiantly runs scarf, but assault vest is a good item as well
-Priority in Shadow sneak
-125 Base Atk is pretty good
-Great revenge killer
Cons:
-Talonflame weak
-Poor physical Def
-4 MSS
-Needs jolly nature to outspeed Mega Gengar
-Weak to paralasis and Burn
-Weak to intimidate
-Zen headmiss
Overall i think B is a good tier for Gallade. Lots of pluses, but i think A might be too much.
The only way I can see Gallade countering Mega Kanga is if A) He is scarfed or B) For some reason Kanga uses Fake Out while you have Steadfast because Kangaskhan still outspeeds even before mega evolving, other than that, pretty much everything you said is on point.
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I just want to point out that, in order to qualify for B tier, your mon has to be convincingly good. Whereas S mons are "op" and A are staples, B should be a tier reserved for solid Pokemon choices that are just not strong enough for A. C should be reserved for more niche Pokemon. I'd have bumped Latios to B+ if we're putting things like Gallade or Rhyperior in B, because it's better than those two. With that said, however.
Gallade is a mediocre Pokemon and is C at best. It's very important to note that it struggles to find a niche with Blaziken being such a dominant force, who has Speed Boost, better offense, and better typing in general. Gallade's special bulk is nothing really special either (it's approximately Hydreigon level), while its physical bulk is abysmal. It relies too much on Scarf to do a whole lot, making it easily wallable, and isn't exactly a great scarfer either since it doesnt really bring a lot of damage outside of Close Combat. Without a Scarf, its low Speed and poor physical bulk is easily abused. Gallade main sell is probably the creative use of its insane movepool, but it can't even run most of those if it goes Assault Vest. Or you might be able to fit it into a mono-fighting squad.
But really, it's mostly Blaziken outclassing it.
To the above user: Jolly scarf gallade outruns Timid mega gengar.
Gallade is a mediocre Pokemon and is C at best. It's very important to note that it struggles to find a niche with Blaziken being such a dominant force, who has Speed Boost, better offense, and better typing in general. Gallade's special bulk is nothing really special either (it's approximately Hydreigon level), while its physical bulk is abysmal. It relies too much on Scarf to do a whole lot, making it easily wallable, and isn't exactly a great scarfer either since it doesnt really bring a lot of damage outside of Close Combat. Without a Scarf, its low Speed and poor physical bulk is easily abused. Gallade main sell is probably the creative use of its insane movepool, but it can't even run most of those if it goes Assault Vest. Or you might be able to fit it into a mono-fighting squad.
But really, it's mostly Blaziken outclassing it.
To the above user: Jolly scarf gallade outruns Timid mega gengar.
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Sorry I calced wrong
About Greninja, what does everyone think about dropping it to B/B- rank?
On the surface, Greninja looks amazing. It has STAB on every move along with great coverage, it's fast, and can provide valuable momentum and pressure. However, Greninja's two best sets (Sash and LO) both have major weaknesses. Sash lacks a lot of power even with Protean, while LO exposes Greninja's poor defenses and still does not give it the power to defeat the very bulky higher tier Pokemon. Greninja can make an effective revenge killer or late game cleanup, but do not rely on it solely for power.
Reading that would surely make you think "Wow such a good pokemon", but after using it for a while, I came to the conclusion that most of the common pokemon either outspeed it (scarves and abilities as well) or manage to take a hit and then hit harder.
If aegislash is running min speed, rhyperior hits it with eq as it sword dances, then rhyperior outspeeds and kills it before it can use sacred sword or iron head.