Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread - Check post #2359

[TheTraininator]

mega gallade for s because it has a fucking cape.

Seconding this. It's a really cool cape.

 

[Noveliss]

Yeah Mega Gallade definitely deserves S Rank tbh, its probably one of the most versatile Megas so far, with a great movepool and has a multitude of sets it can run such as, but not limited too: SD, WispTaunt, BU, Sub+3 Attacks, SubWisp, SD+Healing Wish, and so forth. On top of this, a fucking good 165 Attack and 110 Speed on top of it to make it even better, with decent bulk to make this even more better.

Oh and that cape is pimpin, srsly look at that shit.

----------
On another note, you guys are getting Mega Salamence's rank all wrong, it needs to be called DPPMence Rank.

Come on now guys.

 

[Jukain]

I think that Sableye is the best Mega in ORAS besides the obvious Mence and Metagross. It should definitely be A+, if not S Rank (leaning towards the latter). Mega Sableye really catapults XY Stall to a whole new level, for a few reasons. Like nothing else, it gives stall the power to control the tempo of the match and put pressure on the opponent, which is critical in this generation because it can allow stall to keep up with the pace of offense and actually put pressure on them to make plays. Prankster Will-O-Wisp is a powerful form of anti-offense support, and with physical attackers burned combined with Calm Mind boosts and a dearth of weaknesses, very little on offensive teams can actually stop Mega Sableye due to sheer bulk. It sets up on all kinds of Pokemon, easily tanking at least one hit from most any physical attacker even if it's Mega Evolved, then burning it, or just burning while unevolved. Many special attackers that come in can't break it after a CM, including Pokemon like Keldeo, Greninja, Latios, Gengar, Thundurus, Mega Sceptile, and offensive Heatran. Here are some calcs from my post in the ORAS Mega discussion thread that demonstrate its bulk.

calcs

252 Atk Adaptability Mega Beedrill U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 106-126 (34.8 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 109-130 (35.8 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
244 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 133-156 (43.7 - 51.3%) -- 5.9% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 132-156 (43.4 - 51.3%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Sableye: 118-140 (38.8 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Mega Sceptile Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Sableye: 204-241 (67.1 - 79.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Sableye: 116-140 (38.1 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Sableye: 159-187 (52.3 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Sableye: 159-187 (52.3 - 61.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Sableye: 101-121 (33.2 - 39.8%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Sableye: 165-195 (54.2 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. +1 252 HP / 4 SpD Sableye: 116-140 (38.1 - 46%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Mega Sableye also provides a valuable form of hazard control. Unlike the other Magic Bouncers (Mega Diancie being the only viable one but also Espeon and Xatu), Mega Sableye actually beats the vast majority of SR setters, the only exceptions being SR Landorus-I and Clefable (+ maybe Heatran because it doesn't like burns from that?). SR Landorus-I is pretty uncommon anyways because it appreciates its coverage, or RP to devastate offense, and while Clefable can get up Rocks on Mega Sableye, it fails to deal with it adequately unlike an Unaware and/or CM set -- it's actually setup fodder as shown in the calcs. It also pairs well with Tentacruel, which easily handles Clefable as well as Spikes Greninja. Anyways, what comes with this is that Mega Sableye can completely shut down nuisances like Ferrothorn that could just keep coming in and setting up hazards with virtually no repercussions. It also is able to spinblock Excadrill and bulky Starmie, which combined with shutting down SR setters gives stall teams a massive leg up in the hazard game, as they can get hazards while the opponent pretty much fails to. This is another important piece of pressuring opposing teams with stall. It also prevents opposing balanced/stall teams from getting up their hazards, and can threaten these teams as a fat win con, too.

All in all, Mega Sableye is a pretty crazy mon that serves so many purposes. It provides anti-offense support with Prankster Will-O-Wisp, a devastating win con vs all playstyles that can't even be phazed, anti-hazard support, a spinblocker, status absorber of sorts, stallbreaker, and an answer to many physical attackers as well as a check to like 3/4 of the tier (not an exaggeration). Definitely needs a rise.

And lol, move Mega Metagross to S Rank.

 

[Aurious]

Mega Gallade is not that easy to sweep with, since there are a lot of Pokemon seen on offensive teams that it needs removed before it can secure a sweep, such as Talonflame, Greninja, Thundurus, Mega Pinsir, and Scarf Landorus-T. Mega Gallade usually does not sweep teams very easily until these threats are gone, and while its attack and speed stats are comely on paper, it can easily be prevented from setting up, as it tends to lack the longetivity that I find it needs in order to set up a sweep. Personally, I like Mega Gallade, but I feel its limitations are enough to keep in A+ Rank.
EDIT: If we are talking about its sweeping ability, then do not make it rise; on its versatility, that could be argued about making it rise.

Even if it doesnt sweep, it breaks teams pretty easy with coming in on voltturns from pokemon like lando-t or rotom-w (which is btw a great teammate) and get a kill cause there are only like 2-3 switch solid switch ins in the meta (mega slowbro and mega sableye for example) and a most of the teams have no switch in (defensive monsters like skarm are getting 2HKOed too after rocks if lefties are already knocked off). That it can sweep many teams is just one argument.

 

[asterat]

Ok, so the rest of the forum has kind of adapted to ORAS, so why is this not? These are my thoughts on the new megas and a few other things that have come about because of ORAS.

Gyarados-Mega --> A+
With the introduction of crunch, Gyarados is able to break down some walls that used to be problematic like Mew and Slowbro. In addition, 2 moves is all he usually needs, so it's safe to run Substitute or Taunt. With these moves, he can now beat stuff like Ferrothorn without sacrificing coverage. Crunch + Waterfall isn't really stopped by any common OU mons, it's pretty amazing coverage. However, it's still kind of stomped by Azumarill and Clefable, as well as Low Kick or Grass Knot Greninja. Good, but not amazing.

Greninja --> S+
This thing is so powerful, I think it needs to be distinguished from the rest of the peasants in S. I honestly think it should be banned, or suspected at the very least. Its new moves exponentially increase unpredictability- it doesn't even *need* a water move anymore! I've been running Gunk/Low Kick/Ice Beam/Night Slash, but special sets are probably better.

Metagross-Mega --> S
A very strong mon, but it definitely has some flaws. However, the speed is disgusting and it's got ridiculous bulk so it's definitely a force to be reckoned with. Being weak to knock off, earthquake, and Fire Blast does not make it easy to use, but it can break Electric and Waters with Zen Headbutt so it's pretty solid. Main issue is you can't really nail everything with one set. I've been running Meteor Mash/Zen Heabutt/Grass Knot/Hammer Arm and I still lose to Scizor and Skarmory- HP fire is an option even if it's kind of meh. One cool thing you can do is run pursuit in tandem with Keldeo as well. Cool mon, lots of options, but some issues as well (otherwise it would be broken.)

Salamence-Mega --> Uber
Um do we really need to discuss this? This is like Pinsir and Latios Duct-Taped together with Fire Blast. Wallbreaker sets are ridiculous, dragon dance sets are ridiculous...

Lopunny-Mega --> A-
This thing is fast and decently powerful, but if you don't run jolly then you're not fast enough, and if you don't run adamant you're not strong enough. It also doesn't get double edge which kind of sucks. It's a good revenge killer and all, but it's pretty easy to stop with a bulky pokemon and it doesn't have U-Turn to maintain momentum really easily. It's also not really strong enough to break Skarmory or whatever, so it's not too amazing. Base 136 attack is ~base 92 with a life orb, so don't get too excited.

Gallade-Mega --> B+
Gallade doesn't hit very hard unless he has a swords dance up, which isn't that easy to get. Even then, base 110 speed is nothing amazing in ORAS and he might get revenge killed very quickly. I guess it probably breaks stall really well, but the hit and run tactic is somewhat lost on a well balanced pokemon. Medicham is kind of better, but knock off is really nice.

Sableye-Mega --> B+
I've only used this a few times, and though it's a bit situational, it's pretty cool. Magic Bounce is a criminally underexplored ability only given to shitty pokemon in the past, but Mega Sableye kind of breaks that trend with a good typing, movepool, and set of defenses. Because it doesn't have any weaknesses besides fairy, it can come in on a lot of mons and just shut them down completely. Gliscor? no. Skarmory? no. Ferrothorn? no. Hippowdon? no. Also all sorts of defensive stealth rock pokemon are shut down. The main issue is that it relies on a slow recover to stay healthy, but I think it's pretty awesome when it's used right. You can pick physically or specially defensive, both have their own merits. It's a very annoying pokemon to face as well- it is almost guaranteed to improve your position in battle by spamming Will-o-Wisp and Knock Off. SpD Shuts down stuff like Gengar easily, while Phys Def is mostly good for taking assorted earthquakes.
Beedrill-Mega --> B
Kind of a neat mon, not going to lie. Also, it's a fucking Beedrill, and it's killing your OU team. I'm primarily a balance player so I don't use Beedrill that well, but I can see him being pretty awesome on offensive teams with a volturning core. The lack of defense is kind of a problem, but hey, it hits pretty hard. It can't break a lot of things, but I think it can be a real pain if you use it properly. Also revenges stuff like +1 DDCharX with ease.


Repost.

 

[Clone]

Gallade-Mega --> B+
Gallade doesn't hit very hard unless he has a swords dance up, which isn't that easy to get. Even then, base 110 speed is nothing amazing in ORAS and he might get revenge killed very quickly. I guess it probably breaks stall really well, but the hit and run tactic is somewhat lost on a well balanced pokemon. Medicham is kind of better, but knock off is really nice.

Im sorry dude but this right here shows that you dont know anything about Gallade. CC off base 165 Atk hits harder than Gardes Hyper Voice... lol. Theres no way in hell hes any lower than A+. Certainly not B lol

 

[Sgt. Stardust]

You're forgetting the scarf sets, (which with icy wind u can hinder mega mence btw). Scarf Keldeo is an excellent revenge killer rn, and ebelt+subcm lets it be dangerous and versatile enough to give the answers to specs a run for their money.

Also keldeo is a pretty solid switch-in to ninja right now, as esensory is rare and hp grass is uncommon, and obviously ninja isn't really taking a hit.

Finally we can't really say that keldeo is bad because the pokemon that counters it is obscenely broken. And I'm not saying like mega lucario or mega mawile kind of broken. I'm saying that if we had a scale of 1-10 of brokenness (10 being broken obv) mega mence comes in at 13 (mkhan is 15 imho)

I'm not saying Keldeo is bad, I'm just saying that in ORAS as it stands now, it's not S rank, and its certainly not one of the top five Pokes in the tier.

My argument wasn't that the best Pokemon in the tier counters it (though that should count against it IMO) it's that using Keldeo leaves your team even more vulnerable to said Pokemon. And it's not just Mence. All the new Base 110 megas actually make Keldeo look slow. Which makes Specs a lot less effecitve. And since the specs set was supposed to be its best I have a hard time seeing how Keldeo is still as good, at least while Mence is here.

"S Rank: Reserved for Pokemon that are amazing in the OU metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits."

Keldeo doesn't really perform a variety of roles anymore. It's best set is scarf now and unless you're locked into icy wind or you get a scald burn then Mence sets up on you. I guess e-belt is a nice lure, but lures only work if they're relatively uncommon. Which means there is certainly a very high risk to using Keldeo. Once again, not saying its bad, its not, its still a great poke, but until Mence goes, it just doesn't fit the characteristics of an S rank mon.

 

[asterat]

-Clone-

Eh I really disagree. I've used Gallade a fair amount and he doesn't really perform that well because he doesn't hit hard enough until post swords dance. Even then, it's not like he sweeps the meta. Sure the bulk is nice, but he's still kind of easy to pick off and not that strong. Knock Off, Bulk, and Speed is hat he has over Medicham. These are nice, but not all that useful unless you get a swords dance up. Balanced teams have something faster for it, or something to take a hit. Offensie teams just outspeed it and KO it before it attacks. Full stall teams have problems I guess, but that's about it.

Not comparable to Gardevoir at all, Gardevoir has a godly typing compared to a shit one and better coverage moves, as well as being immune to dragon moves (nice pivot against Latios) or being susceptible to burn. On top of all of this they are completely different mons which can't be compared in the slightest. Also, 117 BP Hyper Voice is essentially 120 BP close combat, so that declaration is kind of ridiculous, especially taking into account the awesome go through subs effect of hyper voice and the not so awesome defense drops effect of close combat.

Despite this, I did write that a while back and I don't think B+ is really appropriate anymore, maybe A-/A. I think A+ is too much though for a mon that doesn't hit that hard and has a pretty awful typing for the current metagame. It's just not strong enough. Can't OHKO thundurus, can't OHKO phys def skarm after rocks, etc. It's fast and knock off is really annoying but besides that I really think Gallade is pretty overhyped.

Also if you felt "sorry" about it you wouldn't shitpost in an effort to publicly shame me. I don't really give a fuck, but just pointing this out. You can't assume somebody has no knowledge of a certain mon because they have a different opinion on it that than you. Past this your post contributes absolutely nothing to the discussion of the thread.

 

[Josh Morales]

You can't assume somebody has no knowledge of a certain mon because they have a different opinion on it that than you

You really can when someone nominates Mega Gallade for B+ and says it doesn't hit hard enough unboosted.

 

[Aurious]

asterat: "Can't ohko phys def skarm after rocks"
I dont know andy single physical pokemon which can ohko phys def skarm after rocks with a neutral attack. And im pretty sure that mgallade ohkos thundu after sr with headbutt.

And if u think a pokemon with amazing offensive coverage, 165 base attack and access to a 120 bp stab move dont hits hard enough u just have no idea from pokemon.

 

[Clone]

Since u want a serious reply ill give u one.

-Clone-

Eh I really disagree. I've used Gallade a fair amount and he doesn't really perform that well because he doesn't hit hard enough until post swords dance.

lolwut? he easily 2HKOes any non resists with his STABs alone, unboosted. Anything else is demolished by Knock Off bar a few things, which can be handled by teammates quite easily. idk how youre using him but he performs admirably in almost all situations.

Even then, it's not like he sweeps the meta. Sure the bulk is nice, but he's still kind of easy to pick off and not that strong. Knock Off, Bulk, and Speed is hat he has over Medicham.

you said it yourself: speed and bulk. medi flat out loses to faster stuff like the Muskedeers, Lati@s, Garchomp, and gengar, while gallade can actually outspeed a few of these and tie at worst with the others. add on the fact that he actually has switch in opportunities, and theres literally zero reason to use medi any more. he also has a spammable fighting STAB that doesnt strip half his health every time ferrothorn uses protect, which is another boon over the other. knock off is just the icing on the cake to kill things like mew, for example

These are nice, but not all that useful unless you get a swords dance up. Balanced teams have something faster for it, or something to take a hit. Offensie teams just outspeed it and KO it before it attacks. Full stall teams have problems I guess, but that's about it.

im not gonna post calcs cuz anyone can do then and i cbf regardless, but why does he need an SD if he already hits hard off of a base 165 attack? thats higher than megagross, megamence, pinsir, zard x, etc. and dont bring up abilities because thats not the point. base 165 hits plenty hard unboosted and if u actually used gallade right you would know that. sd is just the icing on the cake

Not comparable to Gardevoir at all,

lol yeah he is. they both evolve from kirlia and thats enough.

Gardevoir has a godly typing compared to a shit one and better coverage moves,

gallades typing isnt shit by any means. fighting is really good with all the dark, steel, and normal types roaming around. and what crack are you on if youre saying garde has better coverage? fighting / psychic / dark | ice | ghost | other is perfectly good. he also gets access to the same support moves as garde too, lol

as well as being immune to dragon moves (nice pivot against Latios) or being susceptible to burn.

also has piss poor physdef and limited switch in opportunities. and status should never be an argument. im not saying garde is bad (tho shes definitely worse in oras, for now at least), but youre really overselling her

On top of all of this they are completely different mons which can't be compared in the slightest.

again, they both evolve from kirlia

Also, 117 BP Hyper Voice is essentially 120 BP close combat, so that declaration is kind of ridiculous, especially taking into account the awesome go through subs effect of hyper voice and the not so awesome defense drops effect of close combat.

i simply said that for comparisons sake. and cc is definitely spammable when youre actually able to keep up with the metagame and not be outsped by all the new things. and switching out isnt a problem due to gallades resistance to rocks, something garde lacks.

Despite this, I did write that a while back and I don't think B+ is really appropriate anymore, maybe A-/A. I think A+ is too much though for a mon that doesn't hit that hard and has a pretty awful typing for the current metagame. It's just not strong enough. Can't OHKO thundurus, can't OHKO phys def skarm after rocks, etc. It's fast and knock off is really annoying but besides that I really think Gallade is pretty overhyped.

garde cant ohko chansey after rocks. shes overhyped. seriously, when has anything physical bar cb adamant victini ever OHKOed skarm after rocks? thats not an argument for anything, lol. i should also let you know that skarm has a decent chance at being 2HKoed and cant switch in. and if anything, gallade is underrated, not over hyped. once you learn to use it youll have a hard time ever using another mega bar like gross or defensive ones.

Also if you felt "sorry" about it you wouldn't shitpost in an effort to publicly shame me. I don't really give a fuck, but just pointing this out. You can't assume somebody has no knowledge of a certain mon because they have a different opinion on it that than you. Past this your post contributes absolutely nothing to the discussion of the thread.

i can assume this if you clearly show that you havent used gallade properly. im not usually this mean in my posts but you cant go around like this and act like you know what youre talking about when its pretty clear by the past two posts that you honestly dont.

 

[TaBuu]

mega aerodactyl
a- rank --> a+ rank​

big changes i know, but this 'mon is the living definition of anti-meta at the moment and it does a fantastic job of checking a variety of offensive threats.
current s rank pokemon and a good chunk of the a+ rank pokemon, struggle against mega aerodactyl's coverage as stone edge, earthquake, ice fang and aerial ace hit them super-effectively. while mega aerodactyl might not be a powerhouse, base 135 attack with tough claws is nothing to scoff at. also, with the steady speed creep that's been taking place in oras ou, mega aerodactyl manages to stay ahead of the curve with its impressive base 150 speed stat.
i'm aware that mega aerodactyl is not that good, but as of right now, in the current stages of this early oras metagame, mega aerodactyl can definitely fit right into the a+ ranks as one of the top offensive checks in the ou metagame.

 

[alexwolf]

Although Mega Gallade is an amazing Pokemon, i think people should wait a bit more before nominating it for S rank, because it's on the same level as Mega Metagross and Mega Salamence right now, the two best MEvos in OU. Stall is very common and it deals with Mega Gallade pretty damn good, be it with Mega Sableye or Thunder Wave Mega Slowbro, musts for stall teams anyway. As for offense, Mega Gallade is unfortunately outsped by many Pokemon found there, such as Greninja, Mega Lopunny, Mega Sceptile, Mega Salamence, Mega Manectric, Mega Aerodactyl, Greninja, Weavile, every single Scarf user, and is also threatened by priority users such as LO Bisharp and Talonflame. In addition, it's not impossible to check for offensive and balanced teams, with Pokemon such as Thunder Wave Clefable, bulky Mega Altaria, Landorus-T, Mega Salamence, Thunder Wave Togekiss, and even physically defensive Klefki being ok to solid checks, in top of the faster Pokemon and priority users that threaten Mega Gallade. Furthermore, it's bulk is just ok and it's typing almost completely irrelevant defensively, meaning it contributes little in terms of defensive synergy, unlike other offensive MEvos such as Sceptile, Aerodactyl, Manectric, and Salamence. Finally, Mega Salamence is a huge pain in the ass and a great check to Mega Gallade, which in top with the other problems is enough to keep Mega Gallade in A+ for now.


Here are the changes i think should happen:

Keldeo: S ---> A+
Latios: S ---> A+
Metagross (Mega): A+ ---> S
Pinsir (Mega): A+ ---> B-
Thundurus: A+ ---> S
Azumarill: A+ ---> A
Garchomp: A+ ---> A
Charizard (Mega Y): A+ ---> A
Venusaur (Mega): A+ ---> A


Keldeo's Speed is not that good anymore, and gets outsped by a large majority of Pokemon found on offensive teams. Furthermore, it got new hard check and counters, such as Mega Salamence, Mega Altaria, Mega Sceptile, Mega Slowbro, and Mega Latias, all of which make it significantly harder for Keldeo to make its presence felt. Keldeo might even deserve to drop to A in the future, but A+ should do for now.

Latios suffers a drop in viability for the same reasons as Keldeo pretty much, with its Speed not being so notable anymore, and gaining some new checks / counters, such as Mega Metagross, Mega Diancie, and Mega Altaria, as well as receiving a bit more competition for the anti-hazard role from both Mega Diancie and Mega Sableye.

Mega Metagross checks a ton of stuff, has amazing bulk for a Pokemon with so much Speed and power, hits hard as fuck, and has a ton of versatility, allowing it to control the pace of the game effortlessly. Be it Agility + 3 attacks, mixed with Grass Knot, or other more situational but very useful moves such as Pursuit, Hidden Power Fire, Stealth Rock, and Bullet Punch, Mega Metagross always does its job on a team. It is by far one of the most influential Pokemon in OU atm.

Mega Pinsir is heavily outclassed by Mega Salamence, with the only thing it has over it being Quick Attack (SD doesn't matter when you can go mixed to smash through physical walls anyway), so B- seems fair, and maybe it should go even lower, this thing is pretty useless with Mega Mence around, though i may be underestimating the merits of Quick Attack a bit.

Thundurus just feels as an S rank threat to me right now. I am seeing hyper offensive and stall teams everywhere, and Thundurus is amazing vs both. Against offense, Thundurus is lucky enough to outspeed base 110s, including new MEvos such as Diancie and Metagross, and provides an invaluable safety net with its priority Thunder Wave that no other Pokemon can do. What makes Prankster Thunder Wave so important now are threats such as Mega Salamence, Mega Lopunny, Greninja, Agility Mega Metagross, DD Mega Altaria, and more, all of which threaten to destroy offensive teams in a heartbeat. As for stall teams, a simple NP + 3 attacks or mixed set with Knock Off can soften everything up or even sweep on its own, while still having that sweet 111 Speed to outrun many important offensive Pokemon. If there is a reason why Thundurus doesn't deserve to be in S rank that would be its inability to significantly threaten both offensive and defensive teams simultaneously, because it can't break through stall effectively without NP + 3 attacks or 4 attacks mixed sets, and it can't have Thunder Wave for offense if it chooses to break past stall. Not 100% sure about Thundurus for S rank, but i am leaning towards S, as priority Thunder Wave has once again become the amazing revenge killing tool it used to be.

Azumarill should drop because it received new checks in Mega Metagross and Mega Slowbro, while some of the Pokemon it used to check are either not that important or it can't check them anymore, such as Greninja and Keldeo. And it can't even check properly the new Megas that it's typing suggests, such as Mega Diancie, Mega Lopunny, and Mega Altaria, because they can all 2HKO it by targeting its mediocre defensive side.

The only reason Garchomp was worthy of A+ rank for me was because of its Stealth Rock set, a very consistent SR setter with sufficient offensive pressure to threaten any kind of anti-hazard Pokemon. With the arrival of Mega Sableye, this is no longer the case, as Mega Sableye hard walls non-SD Garchomp sets and acts as a good check to SD sets. This means that offensive teams will have to rely on other, more effective SR setters, such as Mega Diancie, Clefable, and Heatran, and Garchomp should drop to A to reflect this.

Mega Charizard Y received two major checks in Mega Altaria and Mega Salamence, while it's placement in A+ was questionable even before ORAS, as it needed too much support in comparison with the other Pokemon in A+ rank, so dropping it in A makes sense.

Mega Venusaur was an amazing Pokemon in XY thanks to its ability to handle some of the best Pokemon in the metagame, including Azumarill and Keldeo. However, those Pokemon are not nearly as effective in ORAS as they were in XY, making Mega Venusaur's qualities less needed. Add some very threatening new Pokemon that can turn Mega Venusaur into a liability, such as Mega Metagross, Mega Latias, and Mega Salamence, and it's easy to see why this drop needs to happen.

Finally, some people discussed about Mega Charizard X and Mega Gardevoir dropping. I am not sure and i don't feel strong about this, so i am taking a neutral stance about this for now, though it's worth noting that Mega Charizard X is still very effective against offensive teams and that Mega Gardevor still does a very good job at dealing with stall. Also, bulky SD Mega Charizard X is an amazing check to Pokemon such as Mega Slowbro and Sableye, which must count for something, considering they are some of the best bulky sweepers in OU and are considered very hard to deal with.

EDIT: Oh and definitely Mew for A or even A-, it can't stallbreak shit with Mega Sableye around.

 

[Celticpride]

Clefable doesn't even have to be an issue for Mega Gallade honestly, you can just run Close Combat, Poison Jab, and either Zen Headbutt or Knock Off. CC and Knock Off gives you near perfect coverage outside of Fairy types, and CC and Zen Headbutt gives you near perfect coverage outside of Psychic types. Poison Jab hits both those types neutrally, and at +2 deals a good chuck of damage to most of them. Back to Clefable:

252 Atk Gallade Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 184-218 (46.7 - 55.3%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gallade: 174-206 (62.8 - 74.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

If Clefable switches in on the ZHeadbutt or Knock Off before hand, it loses. Poison Jab may not be the preferred option (CC+Knock Off+Zen Headbutt is dirty coverage), but you're not leaving much on the table by running that to get by one of it's two counters. Sableye continues to screw it unless Gallade gets Play Rough from Tutors. Honestly, I can't easily justify using Gard or Hera over it as a wallbreaker. Gallade has similar immediate power to both, better speed, and the same wallbreaking support moves (Taunt, Sub, SD, DBond, WoW) that the other three have access to all at the same time. I don't think it's S-Rank, but it's right at the top of A+ next to Mega Scizor (who somehow got even better than before, it's straight up dirty right now), and Mega Metagross, who can see moving up because it's basically Jirachi on steroids minus some support moves. Also, Sub Mega Heracross is great in this meta, because it can break both CM Mega Slowbro and CM Mega Sableye (Gard can struggle against the former). I'm not going to say it should rise or fall, but A is a very good home for something with it's power level. It handles ORAS stall teams very well imo.

Also, I think Mega Pinsir should be somewhere around B+/A-. I've kinda kept my mouth shut with regards to Mega Salamence being banned/quickbanned, but let's be real, it's the first thing out of OU in ORAS by a distance. Without Mence in the tier, I think Pinsir actually gained a few good match-ups. Mega Lopunny and Mega Sceptile are both really good match-ups for it, and it fairs pretty well against DD Mega Altaria that lack Fire Blast as well. I know we are supposed to look at the meta as it is now and not speculate on potential bans and how that impacts things, but I would like to hear what some people think of Pinsir in the meta outside of Mence, because that's a much more likely scenario at this point. B- seems really steep.

 

[MrCookiepants]

B- for Pinsir is almost insulting. That's the same rank as Doublade!

Maybe you guys have forgotten because everyone's been playing with the new toys, but this thing is still one of the most terrifying sweepers in the tier. And Aerilate Quick Attack allows it to revenge a lot of the faster new Megas such as Gallade, Beedrill, Lopunny and Sceptile. Salamence is not coming out of any of those matchups unscathed, unless it's boosted.

 

[Kyuzeth]

B- for Pinsir is almost insulting. That's the same rank as Doublade!

Maybe you guys have forgotten because everyone's been playing with the new toys, but this thing is still one of the most terrifying sweepers in the tier. And Aerilate Quick Attack allows it to revenge a lot of the faster new Megas such as Gallade, Beedrill, Lopunny and Sceptile. Salamence is not coming out of any of those matchups unscathed, unless it's boosted.

Among those Pokémon, only Sceptile can easily take it on, since Salamence can Intimidate the other three, Mega Evolve and set up all over them. I guess that priority is nice, but Mega Salamence just has so many things that make it infinitely better than Mega Pinsir. I'd personally place Mega Pinsir in B+ for the time being; it's still powerful, as you've stated, but just drastically less so than it used to be. I'll agree that B- is too harsh for it, but B/B+ sounds good to me.

 

[Valmanway]

B- for Pinsir is almost insulting. That's the same rank as Doublade!

Maybe you guys have forgotten because everyone's been playing with the new toys, but this thing is still one of the most terrifying sweepers in the tier. And Aerilate Quick Attack allows it to revenge a lot of the faster new Megas such as Gallade, Beedrill, Lopunny and Sceptile. Salamence is not coming out of any of those matchups unscathed, unless it's boosted.

From what I can tell, Quick Attack is barely keeping Mega Pinsir above the C Ranks, as Mega Salamence has so much over Mega Pinsir, such as better bulk, lacks a 4x Stealth Rock weakness, has Roost for recovery, Intimidate before Mega Evolving to make setting up easier, and Dragon Dance to boost both Attack and Speed, the latter making bulkier EV spreads possible. I guess Mega Pinsir can still be a good wall breaker with Swords Dance, but that's really all I can see going for it right now. Like the guy above me, B- does seem extreme, but any higher than B+ is really pushing it.

 

[Vinc608]

I support Clefable Rank A+ -> A. Like Azumarill, Clefable has lost his first role : Counter Greninja at full life.

 

[Kurona]

Said it before and I'll say it again, Mega Medicham needs to drop. If Mega Pinsir's getting such a huge drop for being outclassed by 'mence due to only having one niche over it, the same should be said for 'Cham in comparison to Gallade. I really don't know where I'd put it exactly, but I'm thinking B+/B, unless anyone can come up for an argument for why it shouldn't drop.

 

[Klobb]

B- for Pinsir is almost insulting. That's the same rank as Doublade!

To be fair, Doublade will probably drop too. But that's a post for another time. As for Pinsir, I cannot think of a reason to use him over Mega Salamence. It gets quick attack? Mega Mence is so bulky it doesn't need to move first, and after a few DDs priority won't be needed anyway. It can refresh off any Thundurus paras or just be immune if behind a sub. I can definitely see Mega Pinsir being more useful once mence is gone however, and we all know mence will be gone.

 

[MrCookiepants]

Among those Pokémon, only Sceptile can easily take it on, since Salamence can Intimidate the other three, Mega Evolve and set up all over them. I guess that priority is nice, but Mega Salamence just has so many things that make it infinitely better than Mega Pinsir. I'd personally place Mega Pinsir in B+ for the time being; it's still powerful, as you've stated, but just drastically less so than it used to be. I'll agree that B- is too harsh for it, but B/B+ sounds good to me.

Salamence is much better, but that doesn't mean Pinsir deserves B.

At +2, Pinsir demolishes everything in the S/A+ ranks with the exception of Talonflame. That is not a B rank Pokemon in my opinion. It's the same deal with Latios. M-Latios may be just as good, if not better, but the viability rankings don't reflect that.

This kind of problem could be avoided if Mega Pokemon were to be ranked separately from normal Pokemon. That way, people would be able to clearly see that Latios is B rank in relation to the other Megas, not necessarily B rank compared to its regular form.

 

[Ptyra]

Mega Charizard X -> A+

Greninja -> S+
When Mega Salamence will be banned, it will become the best Pokemon in the metagame.

Keldeo -> A+

Latios -> A+
Latios received new checks with Mega Diancie, Mega Metagross, Mega Altaria, Mega Sableye and Mega Sceptile.

Mega Salamence -> Uber plz

Azumarill -> A

Clefable -> I think it is fine in A+.

Mega Gallade -> Stays in A+
It's a very good Pokemon, but it has to many checks to go to S.

Garchomp -> A

Mega Gardevoir -> Could stay in A+

Mega Metagross -> S

Mew -> A

Mega Pinsir -> B (for the moment)
Mega Salamence will be banned soon, so I think A-rank will be fine for it.

Thundurus -> S
Prankster TWave and its speed tier are more important than ever.

Mega Venusaur -> A

Mega Gyarados -> A+

Mega Latias -> A+/S

Mega Slowbro -> A+/S
Incredibly hard to stop.

Mega Sableye -> A+

 

[HolyAvatar]

I agree with S rank for Thundurs-I.
111 base speed is indeed a godsend for it and is even more relevant right now.
Someone said that T-wave is expected and easy to play around. If Thundurus forced the switch and prevented the sweep, it has done its job.
Even if it cannot be useful for both stall and offensive, the T-wave version can still hope for a timely paralysis to break a wall.
The NP set cannot attempt a sweep against offense since everyone and their dog pack Greninja on offense. It is extremely hard to play around the frog and the minute you reveal the NP, you can be sure the opponent will keep it to revenge kill.

On the other hand running both T-wave and NP sacrifices too much coverage.

All in all the T-wave set is easily S, other sets are lower.

 

[jacksoras]

-> S rank
LOL, why the hell isn't mega gross S rank. Great bulk, typing attack, ability, movepool and versatility that makes it a threat to all teams, this thing is easy S rank.

-> S
A lot better in ORAS with so much fast stuff everywhere, 111 outspeeds mega gross and gallade which is also nice.

-> A+
THIS THING IS A-!!??? Mega sableye is a bloody lord and one of the most dangerous megas in ORAS. Great bulk, ability pre mevo and after as well as excellent typing and movepool make this a ridiculous threat.

-> A-/B+
A tone of competition for a fast mega now, still a threat but has competiton.

-> B
Why hasn't this been done? Ridiculous competition with gallade who is almost 100% better, competely walled by mega sableye as well.

-> A-
So many new checks in mega gross, mega diancie, mega altaria and mega scept and loppuny that outspeed it even after a dd.

 

[SketchUp]

Mega-Metagross A+ -> S
145 Attack + Tough Claws hits very hard and 150 base defense make him very hard to wear down without supereffective attacks. It can run Agility to outspeed the whole meta and Zen Headbutt + Meteor Mash is decent coverage (steel types, Slowbro and Victini are one of the few resisters) Add Earthquake and only Skarmory beats you. The fact it doesn't have a reliable way to boost its attack is very annoying, but when you manage to get the Meteor Mash boost, a +1 Meteor Mash OHKO's pretty much everything that doesn't resist it

Hide

+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 244 HP / 192+ Def Gliscor: 205-243 (58.2 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

Gliscor is the most bulky physical defensive mon that doesn't resist Meteor Mash. It can hurt him, but not KO it

0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 146-174 (48.5 - 57.8%) -- 93.4% chance to 2HKO

Keldeo S -> A+
Its speed tier is still awesome, but not perfect. Metagross, Salamence and Gallade are a few new mega's that outspeed it and with the rise of Greninja, Latios and Thundurus-I it gets outsped much easier. The rise in popularity of Latios and Slowbro, 2 pokemon that resists both STABs, is also pretty bad for her. She is still awesome, but not S worth imo

Thundurus A+ -> S
111 speed is just a trolly speed tier, which outspeeds Mega-Gallade, Mega-Metagross, Latios, Gengar et cetera with 1 base speed. Prankster T-Wave helps his teammates a lot, as outspeeding things like Keldeo, Greninja and Weavile much easier. It is also a nice stop to M-Slowbro, OHKO'ing the 4 SpD set, and OHKO'ing the 240 SpD set after rocks. It can come in on a Calm Mind, hit it with Thunderbolt, take 60% from Scald and KO it.

Mega-Gyarados A -> A+
The addition of Crunch really helps it break through bulky mons. Crunch + Waterfall + Earthquake is incredibly hard to stop once it has set up

Garchomp A+ -> A
M-Salamence makes pokemon like Mamoswine and Weavile much more common and this hurts Garchomp. The rise of Greninja, which often carries Ice Beam and Thundurus-I, who often carries HP Ice

Azumarill A+ -> A
I find it really difficuly to just put this pokemon on my team. Playing with Azumarill doesn't feel as good as it was in XY OU, but I understand when people disagree with it. I can see it in both A+ and A, but A seems more fair at the moment

Mega-Medicham A -> A-
It faces huge competiton from M-Gallade, who is better at almost every point except the power M-Medicham brings more immediate power with HJK, where M-Gallade needs a boost to hit more. Also, M-Medicham has a free mega-evolving turn with Fake out, where M-Gallade has to deal with its 80 speed before M-evolving. Outside these 2 points, M-Gallade just seems better dan M-Medicham: it's bulkier, has access to Swords Dance and its 110 speed tier speed ties with Gengar, Latios and M-Metagross and outspeeds Keldeo, where M-Medicham gets outsped by them 100% of the time

Hide

252 Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magikarp: 379-447 (209.3 - 246.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magikarp: 756-891 (417.6 - 492.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Magikarp: 571-673 (315.4 - 371.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO