Other ORAS Metagame Discussion

[Berry Juice]

CharX and Talonflame do well in the face of sable because they cannot be burned, something that azu cannot say.
CharX in particular is bulky enough to gain a turn to set up, what are the calcs on a +1 252+ atk Flare Blitz on this thing?

+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 265-313 (87.1 - 102.9%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
Not even a guaranteed OHKO. CharX has to be careful about a possible Foul Play:
+1 0- Atk Sableye Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 234-276 (78.7 - 92.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Though I'm not sure how much bulk the usual CharX runs.

 

[Vengeance417]

+1 252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 265-313 (87.1 - 102.9%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
Not even a guaranteed OHKO. CharX has to be careful about a possible Foul Play:
+1 0- Atk Sableye Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 234-276 (78.7 - 92.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Though I'm not sure how much bulk the usual CharX runs.

Bulky DD likes to run enough speed to outpace Jolly Breloom while using an Adamant nature, and the rest dumped in to HP, which ends up as a spread of 144 HP/ 252 Atk/ 112 Spe

+1 0- Atk Sableye Foul Play vs. 144 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 234-276 (70.2 - 82.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[master_marshmallow]

If rocks are a factor?

 

[Arcanine is Regal]

If rocks are a factor?

well If its with mega sableye rocks probably arent up on the field, but if they are somehow, then charx's flare blitz OHKOs 98% of the time

And if they were on charx's side, there is a 90% chance sableye can kill with foul play if you have a negative attacking nature and it goes to 100% if you dont

 

[totoTavros]

Bulky DD likes to run enough speed to outpace Jolly Breloom while using an Adamant nature, and the rest dumped in to HP, which ends up as a spread of 144 HP/ 252 Atk/ 112 Spe

+1 0- Atk Sableye Foul Play vs. 144 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 234-276 (70.2 - 82.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I thought it was simply enough HP to not be 2hko'd by Rotom-W HPump?

 

[Vengeance417]

I thought it was simply enough HP to not be 2hko'd by Rotom-W HPump?

...that too? The EV spread works for both situations, then.

 

[greengrappler]

OK that is it, Mega Sable can survive a +2, no STAB D-gleam coming off of 125 base SpAtt, No way am I doing OU until it gets banned.

 

[WebBowser]

OK that is it, Mega Sable can survive a +2, no STAB D-gleam coming off of 125 base SpAtt, No way am I doing OU until it gets banned.

Question: What kind of setup sweeper is using an unstabbed dazzling gleam in the first place?

 

[Clone]

OK that is it, Mega Sable can survive a +2, no STAB D-gleam coming off of 125 base SpAtt, No way am I doing OU until it gets banned.

Well I mean, a lot of things can live a non STAB SE hit after 2 Calm Minds, so that's not exactly uncommon to see. He'll even Suicune can live STAB SE hits after two calm minds, so saying stuff like this preemptively isn't gonna get you anywhere.

The best way I've found to deal with Mega Sableye is through the use of CM Clefable, Mega Gardevoir, and Unaware Clefable, tho physical fire types don't mind mega eye too much either. Examples include SD Talonflame and DD Zard X

 

[greengrappler]

Question: What kind of setup sweeper is using an unstabbed dazzling gleam in the first place?

'Lakazam or Azelf.

 

[greengrappler]

Well I mean, a lot of things can live a non STAB SE hit after 2 Calm Minds, so that's not exactly uncommon to see. He'll even Suicune can live STAB SE hits after two calm minds, so saying stuff like this preemptively isn't gonna get you anywhere.

The best way I've found to deal with Mega Sableye is through the use of CM Clefable, Mega Gardevoir, and Unaware Clefable, tho physical fire types don't mind mega eye too much either. Examples include SD Talonflame and DD Zard X

I mean say Alakazam uses two Calm minds, THEN Sable can survive a D-Gleam

 

[heritage]

'Lakazam or Azelf.

Since when is Azelf a relevant sweeper in OU? And it's not going to be banned. Hitting it hard enough with a physical hit does enough, as long as you don't get Will-O-Wisp'd, so something tells me you won't be playing OU for a while.

 

[skies]

But what Alakazam runs Calm Mind? What kind of Alakazam use Dazzling Gleam? Who uses Alakazam in OU?

 

[Celticpride]

I mean say Alakazam uses two Calm minds, THEN Sable can survive a D-Gleam

+2 252+ SpA Mega Alakazam Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Sableye: 424-500 (139.4 - 164.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Alakazam Dazzling Gleam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Sableye: 316-374 (103.9 - 123%) -- guaranteed OHKO

That aside, Calm Mind Mega Zam isn't terrible, but it's nothing great either. Psyshock/DGleam/Focus Blast actually has close to perfect coverage iirc, so Gleam isn't useless. But yeah, Mega Zam usually wants Taunt, Sub or HP Ice/Fire before Calm Mind. Regular Zam is not good in OU anymore. Azelf isn't a set-up sweeper either. It's an awesome hazard lead and dual screener, but the Nasty Plot sets don't really work.

 

[greengrappler]

Since when is Azelf a relevant sweeper in OU? And it's not going to be banned. Hitting it hard enough with a physical hit does enough, as long as you don't get Will-O-Wisp'd, so something tells me you won't be playing OU for a while.

I didn't explain well enough I guess, what I meant was: Good gravy! Mega Sable can survive a +2 [insert move that would hit 160 base power] coming from [insert random 'mon with 125 base spAtt] I'm just saying, I was trying to make a team cored around mega Sceptile, and needed something for Sable. (Speaking of which, how much does Modest, Charizard Y's Fire Blast in the sun do to Sable, damage calc doesn't seem to be working here.) (Also doesn't saying "Hitting it hard enough with a physical move and hope an 85% accurate move misses." sound a little...)

 

[greengrappler]

Or just use Mega-Diancie as she can also laugh at base form of MSable and pretty much apply pressure to him through out the match.

Saying "Put X Mega on your team to counter X." Seems like a bad idea to me, why waste a Mega slot just so I can beat one person?

 

[WebBowser]

greengrappler Zard-Y fire blast should OHKO, sun boosted high SPA high BP move and all that. I doubt it even needs to run modest.

Anyway, to beat M-Sable, you essentially have 3 options. 1. Run a fairy, 2. Run an NPer (TG manaphy def counts), or 3. Run a mega that can muscle through it. M-Sable is really friggen strong right now, so it makes sense it would overcentralize the meta a bit.

 

[greengrappler]

But what Alakazam runs Calm Mind? What kind of Alakazam use Dazzling Gleam? Who uses Alakazam in OU?

You know that MegaZam and Azelf are both B rank right...

 

[Sanger Zonvolt]

You know that MegaZam and Azelf are both B rank right...

I think he meant regular Zam not MegaZam. Etiher way neither MegaZam nor Azelf have the bulk to be set-up sweepers; usually MegaZam is a revenge killer/cleaner and Azelf is a suicide lead. Anyway the calc is acting up so I can't post calculations, but I did run calcs yesterday, and the only way M-Sableye lived a +2 MegaZam Dazzling Gleam at +0 special defence is either because you forgot to add Special Attack EVs or the guy invested in M-Sableye's Special defence instead of its defense, which is unusual and questionable.

Saying "Put X Mega on your team to counter X." Seems like a bad idea to me, why waste a Mega slot just so I can beat one person?

There are non-mega outs you could use to kill M-Sableye that are considered viable: Azumarill, and Clefable are strong go-tos, and Entei, Nasty Plot Togekiss, and Choice Specs Sylveon are also viable non-Mega options.

 

[Behexenhaus]

or the guy invested in M-Sableye's Special defence instead of its defense, which is unusual and questionable.

Not really, especially if you're not doing the whole CM win-con thing.

 

[Sanger Zonvolt]

Not really, especially if you're not doing the whole CM win-con thing.

Fair enough. I was going off the sets in the Sableye thread which are all physically defensive, which I figured was done since it seems like it already beats most of the relevant special attackers fairly easily or gets curb-stomped by them royally. Admittedly I haven't had any time to ladder in the last few weeks and I haven't played with M-Sableye myself, so if someone tested it and says it works I'm not really in a position to doubt them.

 

[MANNAT]

I personally prefer using Clefable to counter many of the new megas such as megamance, mega gallade, and even mega sableye.

 

[Taliheim]

I personally prefer using Clefable to counter many of the new megas such as megamance, mega gallade, and even mega sableye.

The problem with clefable is that it's quite limited with Gren running around everywhere.

 

[HolyAvatar]

The problem with clefable is that it's quite limited with Gren running around everywhere.

Greninja doesn't want to switch on a moonblast though.

 

[Taliheim]

Greninja doesn't want to switch on a moonblast though.

Or anything, for that matter.

I should point out that with ORAS replacing standard XY OU, the players who haven't migrated yet will be relatively confused, and would appreciate a synopsis of the changes discussed here, i.e. where the new megas stand and the changed viabilities of old mons.