Art Vandelay
Banned deucer.
which is different from Deoxys-A how?Mega Rayquaza has basically no counter, revenge kill or priority is the only way to beat this thing.
which is different from Deoxys-A how?Mega Rayquaza has basically no counter, revenge kill or priority is the only way to beat this thing.
Because you can't KO Rayquaza by breathing on it.which is different from Deoxys-A how?
Ok we got that "uber" is esentially a ban list for "overused" but it has its own, rightfully, unbalanced metagame, whilst I disagreed on M_gengar's ban for this reason I think that M_Rayquaza can't just be overlooked since he's going to just steamroll that metagame.Banning something for being overcentralizing or overpowered just makes Ubers into OU 2.0. There is NOTHING "uncompetitive" about Mega Rayquaza, just like there is nothing uncompetitive about GeoXern, ScarfOgre, EKiller, etc. Overcentralization and overpoweredness are NOT grounds for a ban in Ubers, and the fact that people are even discussing banning it is extremely disappointing.
Those pokemon all check different aspects of MRay (except for xerneas, that gets OHKOed by +1 dragon ascent even with max defense investment), but none can check all of them. If fact, MRay can only ever counter SD sets, because DD sets destroy them, using groudon rids you of the chance to run pdon, which is a HUGE opportunity cost in ORAS, and ditto is hugely dependent on prediction. Klefki doesn't even work because if someone is using MRay, it's very likely that they are also using it's best friend pdon, which hard counters klefki.lol @ people still bitching about it having "no checks"
Mray DOES have a few checks, including Xerneas, other MRay, Groudon, and Ditto. You guys really need to settle down, as we've established that there needs to be a review of ban philosophy and tiering policy, including the very real possibility of designating ubers as a tier as opposed to a simple banlist. Until then, actually play the meta, and give up on the lazy bullshit quickban mentality.
Chill the fuck out guys, no need to get heated over this.
Scarfxern can check sd iirc. PDon loss isn't that big of an opportunity cost as checking Mega Ray is WAY more important.Those pokemon all check different aspects of MRay (except for xerneas, that gets OHKOed by +1 dragon ascent even with max defense investment), but none can check all of them. If fact, MRay can only ever counter SD sets, because DD sets destroy them, using groudon rids you of the chance to run pdon, which is a HUGE opportunity cost in ORAS, and ditto is hugely dependent on prediction. Klefki doesn't even work because if someone is using MRay, it's very likely that they are also using it's best friend pdon, which hard counters klefki.
Overheat.However, I am glad that Avalugg became relevant...even if it appears in every single team from now on...
Can I have some of what you're smoking?lol @ people still bitching about it having "no checks"
Mray DOES have a few checks, including Xerneas, other MRay, Groudon, and Ditto. You guys really need to settle down, as we've established that there needs to be a review of ban philosophy and tiering policy, including the very real possibility of designating ubers as a tier as opposed to a simple banlist. Until then, actually play the meta, and give up on the lazy bullshit quickban mentality.
Chill the fuck out guys, no need to get heated over this.
when u r running airballoon , u need to make sure u won't get hit before facing M-rayLast night when I was thinking about M Ray checks I had a brainwave, I am pretty sure this is a solid check to all of M Ray's common sets. Ladies and Gentlemen I give you Air Balloon Diancie!
Diancie
item: air balloon
Quiet
252 Hp, 252 Sattack, 4 def
-rest
-sleep talk
-moonblast
-diamond storm
As the calculator does not have M Ray yet I am using Deo-A to base my calculations. Diancie is immune to dragon moves and resists all of its other attacks except for earthquake which is where the balloon comes in. M Ray has to pop the balloon first forcing it to use either extreme-speed, V-create or Dragon Ascent on it, this lets Diancie release a moonblast in response. Here are the calcs, remember that V-create and Dragon Ascent have equal damage output against Diancie:
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A V-create vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Diancie: 187-221 (61.5 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Diancie: 83-99 (27.3 - 32.5%) -- 79% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A V-create vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Diancie: 227-268 (74.6 - 88.1%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Diancie: 200-237 (65.7 - 77.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Deoxys-A V-create vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Diancie: 144-170 (47.3 - 55.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
So Daincie can tank any hit unless you are very unlucky with the +2 jolly V-create/Dragon Ascent and have rocks against you, or you are facing specs surf M Ray (which is just not likely to happen lol and even if it does its easy to revenge kill afterwards). Now lets see what Diancie can do back. As Once again as M Ray is not on the calculator I have given normal Ray enough Sdef EV's to simulate a M Ray with no bulk investment :
252+ SpA Diancie Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 80 SpD Rayquaza: 284-336 (80.9 - 95.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Diancie Moonblast vs. -1 0 HP / 80 SpD Rayquaza: 426-504 (121.3 - 143.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
So there you have it, moonblast will remove at least 80% of its health and when you take into account that M Ray has to hit Diancie twice using Life Orb it will be dead regardless. You can remove a little of that Sattack and put it into def is you want to make sure +2 Dragon Ascent does not OHKO you.
Not only does rest-talk Air Balloon Diancie deal with M Ray, but it is actually capable of Countering Yveltal, checking non iron head Ho-Oh and it has the bulk and movepool to give most dragons in Uber a big headache. After all people were saying that Daincie was Uber viable before we knew anything about ORAS. Am I missing anything here or is this the SOLID check we have all been looking for?
if there's a SD megaray, then it can OHKO diancie at +2.Last night when I was thinking about M Ray checks I had a brainwave, I am pretty sure this is a solid check to all of M Ray's common sets. Ladies and Gentlemen I give you Air Balloon Diancie!
Diancie
item: air balloon
Quiet
252 Hp, 252 Sattack, 4 def
-rest
-sleep talk
-moonblast
-diamond storm
As the calculator does not have M Ray yet I am using Deo-A to base my calculations. Diancie is immune to dragon moves and resists all of its other attacks except for earthquake which is where the balloon comes in. M Ray has to pop the balloon first forcing it to use either extreme-speed, V-create or Dragon Ascent on it, this lets Diancie release a moonblast in response. Here are the calcs, remember that V-create and Dragon Ascent have equal damage output against Diancie:
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A V-create vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Diancie: 187-221 (61.5 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Diancie: 83-99 (27.3 - 32.5%) -- 79% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A V-create vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Diancie: 227-268 (74.6 - 88.1%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Diancie: 200-237 (65.7 - 77.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Deoxys-A V-create vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Diancie: 144-170 (47.3 - 55.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
So Daincie can tank any hit unless you are very unlucky with the +2 jolly V-create/Dragon Ascent and have rocks against you, or you are facing specs surf M Ray (which is just not likely to happen lol and even if it does its easy to revenge kill afterwards). Now lets see what Diancie can do back. As Once again as M Ray is not on the calculator I have given normal Ray enough Sdef EV's to simulate a M Ray with no bulk investment :
252+ SpA Diancie Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 80 SpD Rayquaza: 284-336 (80.9 - 95.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Diancie Moonblast vs. -1 0 HP / 80 SpD Rayquaza: 426-504 (121.3 - 143.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
So there you have it, moonblast will remove at least 80% of its health and when you take into account that M Ray has to hit Diancie twice using Life Orb it will be dead regardless. You can remove a little of that Sattack and put it into def is you want to make sure +2 Dragon Ascent does not OHKO you.
Not only does rest-talk Air Balloon Diancie deal with M Ray, but it is actually capable of Countering Yveltal, checking non iron head Ho-Oh and it has the bulk and movepool to give most dragons in Uber a big headache. After all people were saying that Daincie was Uber viable before we knew anything about ORAS. Am I missing anything here or is this the SOLID check we have all been looking for?
Stop trolling please :/lol @ people still bitching about it having "no checks"
Mray DOES have a few checks, including Xerneas, other MRay, Groudon, and Ditto. You guys really need to settle down, as we've established that there needs to be a review of ban philosophy and tiering policy, including the very real possibility of designating ubers as a tier as opposed to a simple banlist. Until then, actually play the meta, and give up on the lazy bullshit quickban mentality.
Chill the fuck out guys, no need to get heated over this.
You did not read my post properly, cause if you did you would have seen that I put 252 EV's into HP.if there's a SD megaray, then it can OHKO diancie at +2.
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Rayquaza V-create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Diancie: 251-295 (104.1 - 122.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Yeah I would keep balloon Diancie safe until I need to use it. As long as you do that it can do its job even with stealth rock damage. Its the most solid check I can think of. Once it has done its job it can try to rest of the damage and be used as a general dragon/Ho-Oh/Yveltal killer, so it still has many uses in Ubers afterwards.when u r running airballoon , u need to make sure u won't get hit before facing M-ray
With SR, +2 Dragon Ascent has a 62.5% chance to OHKO that Diancie build. There's still a good chance that Diancie can live and KO Mega-Ray, but I don't think it's the most solid answer.+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A V-create vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Diancie: 251-295 (82.5 - 97%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
I did not put this calculation in because Adamant SD is not a great set for M Ray. Its gives you crazy power but its much easier to out-speed and KO from scarf users and EKiller. Jolly SD M Ray is better.
0 SpA Lugia Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega-Rayquaza: 120-142 (34.1 - 40.4%) -- 41.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth RockDoes anybody know how much Ice Beam by uninvested Lugia does to ray? Does it 2hko after SR?
I tried and tried to make Air Balloon or at worst Shuca Berry [something] work. The problem is that you fold to all-out attacker sets. If Ray is using 4 attacks, then unless you manage to switch into Earthquake, you are dying next turn to that move. Not good.Last night when I was thinking about M Ray checks I had a brainwave, I am pretty sure this is a solid check to all of M Ray's common sets. Ladies and Gentlemen I give you Air Balloon Diancie!
Diancie
item: air balloon
Quiet
252 Hp, 252 Sattack, 4 def
-rest
-sleep talk
-moonblast
-diamond storm
As the calculator does not have M Ray yet I am using Deo-A to base my calculations. Diancie is immune to dragon moves and resists all of its other attacks except for earthquake which is where the balloon comes in. M Ray has to pop the balloon first forcing it to use either extreme-speed, V-create or Dragon Ascent on it, this lets Diancie release a moonblast in response. Here are the calcs, remember that V-create and Dragon Ascent have equal damage output against Diancie:
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A V-create vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Diancie: 187-221 (61.5 - 72.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Diancie: 83-99 (27.3 - 32.5%) -- 79% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-A V-create vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Diancie: 227-268 (74.6 - 88.1%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
4 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-A Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Diancie: 200-237 (65.7 - 77.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Deoxys-A V-create vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Diancie: 144-170 (47.3 - 55.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
So Daincie can tank any hit unless you are very unlucky with the +2 jolly V-create/Dragon Ascent and have rocks against you, or you are facing specs surf M Ray (which is just not likely to happen lol and even if it does its easy to revenge kill afterwards). Now lets see what Diancie can do back. As Once again as M Ray is not on the calculator I have given normal Ray enough Sdef EV's to simulate a M Ray with no bulk investment :
252+ SpA Diancie Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 80 SpD Rayquaza: 284-336 (80.9 - 95.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Diancie Moonblast vs. -1 0 HP / 80 SpD Rayquaza: 426-504 (121.3 - 143.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
So there you have it, moonblast will remove at least 80% of its health and when you take into account that M Ray has to hit Diancie twice using Life Orb it will be dead regardless. You can remove a little of that Sattack and put it into def is you want to make sure +2 Dragon Ascent does not OHKO you.
Not only does rest-talk Air Balloon Diancie deal with M Ray, but it is actually capable of Countering Yveltal, checking non iron head Ho-Oh and it has the bulk and movepool to give most dragons in Uber a big headache. After all people were saying that Daincie was Uber viable before we knew anything about ORAS. Am I missing anything here or is this the SOLID check we have all been looking for?
Thats nice.0 SpA Lugia Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega-Rayquaza: 120-142 (34.1 - 40.4%) -- 41.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
It's a guaranteed 2HKO if you factor Life Orb recoil and Dragon Ascent stat drop.