I can respect this :]
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Ubers is now a tier; a new Metagame called Anything Goes is added; M-Ray is banned from Ubers
- Thread starter chaos
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"Broken" and "uncompetitive" are not mutually esclusive.
Once we reach a certain point, the line between "broken" and "uncompetitive" is no longer very clear. This is why Mega Gengar got a suspect test while Wobbuffet didn't. It wasn't just ST, it was a combination of many factors.
I would also invite everyone to pay attention to the following definition: any pokemon, given high enough stats and very basic movepool (minimum requirement: reasonable coverage with decently-powered moves) is broken. The better its ability, movepool, typing and stat distribution are, the lower its BST needs to be before reaching the breaking point.
What does this mean? Take a shitmon like Luvdisc and give it +150 stats in everything. I can guarantee you it's going to become the most broken thing in the history of pokemon.
Even something like Aurorus with Truant would be broken if it had base 250 stats in everything.
This is why Mega Rayquaza became too much to handle. It was the combination of 780 BST, insane movepool, a new great secondary STAB to abuse, an excellent defensive ability AND being able to hold an item that made it into the utter terror it is.
Just to clarify, this uber metagame still won't use usage to affect lower tiers so things like Ferrothorn won't be banned in OU.
Neat that I can finally legally use Minimize. This will make moves like Magical Leaf more viable.
As for AG being uncompetitive, that is kind of the point? We made this meta to break ties with the notion that Ubers is "just a banlist" or "uncompetitive". If you want what we consider "uncompetitive", play AG. Otherwise continue to play Ubers, and maybe be more honest that what you are complaining about is the M-Ray ban and not that there is a new meta that you aren't obligated to play.
And yes, AG IS the spiritual successor of Ubers--old gen ubers, to be exact.
And yes, AG IS the spiritual successor of Ubers--old gen ubers, to be exact.
To anyone that questions Gamefreak on why they created this broken monstrosity, it really all comes down to what sells. I really doubt that Gamefreak gives a damn about Smogon's rules. They want to appeal mainly to their target audience, which to them are kids ages 6-10. What better way to market to kiddies than to release this big, scary, ferocious looking, sleek, powerful Chinese Dragon. It looks cool to a male child that age. I knew that it did for me. In my opinion, Mega Rayquaza was a cash cow along with Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre. Let's face it, to a kid that knows nothing about the true aspects of competitive battling, the more powerful stuff is, the better.
At first I thought bout AG as the Mega-Rayquaza paradise, but the lack of clauses makes it the gimmick-paradise xD well M-Ray probably won't see very much usage in the new tier.
Good decision on this, he was way too much overcentralizing. When something almost 1HKO's a full HP and Def Lugia THOUGH multiscale you know it's broken. Lol
Good decision on this, he was way too much overcentralizing. When something almost 1HKO's a full HP and Def Lugia THOUGH multiscale you know it's broken. Lol
What is the reason for endless battle clause to be in AG?
I always thought this was obvious. I guess not. Hell even in-game wifi battles have a timer to prevent this nonsense.
Well to me it seems like ag it's just about making a trash meta to justify the "New ubers" I don't think anyone will play it seriously so the endless battle clause might as well be removed. The tier is called anything goes after all.
yes trash meta is obv, but there are 2 answers as chaos states them
fun answer:
<chaos> anything goes doesnt mean you can smash your opps computer either
sensible one:
<chaos> because it introduces a win condition external to the game
So when will anything goes get its own chat room etc
it comes down to the interest in the meta. If it sees activity AND possibility of non-shit talk, it'll happen.(this is what i heard, i dunno how this will be looked out for)
Yay, I can finally use my miror b team with 4 ludicolo's somewhere
Thank you for Anything Goes tier. I can finally use my Umbreon again (I still don't get why it was decided to ban Swagger instead of the actual problem that just had Swagger as one of its components).
Swagger was the problem. Even without Thunder Wave and Foul Play, it was still bullshit.
If Ubers is going to be an official tier from here on out, then why won't usage statistics be used to constitute the tier itself, just as every other tier follows?
If like 50 more Pokemon are banned from OU, then it might make sense to stratify Ubers by usage. At the moment there aren't enough Pokemon.
First off, praise be unto pur benevolent smogon overlords for finally making ubers an official tier. Second off for all the people bitching about m-ray being banned, it is possible that it can be suspect tested back into ubers again(even though it wont because lets be real, that monster is way too overpowered and broken even in a tier of op and brokem mons). I guess i see the argument of m-ray being banned too quickly but like m-sala in ou, be honest would a suspect test really have mattered?
The thing is Ubers was never a official tier so there was never a case where a mon was too broken for Ubers even if they are overwhelmingly OP. While it was really just a matter of time before GF came with a mon that'd break the Ubers we needed a admin or someone with the authority to say: "Screw it, it's ok to ban obvious broken shit for the sake of the metagame now". Not saying a suspect test would have changed much cause everyone knew Mega Rayquaza was by far the best but it was more of a case of pragmatism and principles and it could have split the metagame players apart, especially after the shadow tag fiasco.
Maybe if you couldn't be bothered to make intelligent decisions when facing it. I don't know that this thread is appropriate for this discussion, though.
There really weren't "intelligent decisions" to make. If the opponent outsped you and landed Swagger, you were either forced to try the 50/50 or switch out and potentially get Swaggered again. Pokemon like Kingdra could Swagger their typical counters and possibly be able to break past them purely on chance.
foul play has use beyond swagplay. thunder wave has use beyond swagplay. swagger's only use is in swagplay, because the only reason you'd want to explicitly raise your opponent's attack exponentially is to completely ensure you can keep them from attacking you, and to capitalize on their high attack. otherwise, you're relying on the worst kind of luck; the kind that isn't in your favor.
of course, this discussion is meaningless, because as you've said, AG exists now, and if you haven't noticed the merry band of klefki terrorizing the land, swagplay works quite well still
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