They will possibly have a suspect in the near future, the others where clearly broken and as such needed to go as fast as possible. Camerupt due to its low speed and the tier having walls such as lickilicky and togetic wasn't quick banned to give the meta an opportunity to adapt to the 3 megas we have left. If in a little bit the council deems that they need a suspect test then one will be conducted, or if you feel that Mega Camerupt is clearly broken then you can post about it in this thread.what about the camerupt one?
I'm not exactly sure if you're trolling or not, but Avalugg is not a suicide pokemon, nor does it even get stealth rock.Avalugg is a good suicide rock setter in the put tier. Also no one is going to use farfetched in the pu tier.
I have a different rock setter. I use Pineco, even though it's LC, because it has both rocks and Rapid Spin. Here's my set (I know it isn't the best set):
Planted Bomb (Pineco) (M) @ Eviolite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
- Rock Slide
- Explosion
I desided to do some calcs with this thing to see if has any niche at all (you never know before you calc)I have a different rock setter. I use Pineco, even though it's LC, because it has both rocks and Rapid Spin. Here's my set (I know it isn't the best set):
Planted Bomb (Pineco) (M) @ Eviolite
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
- Rock Slide
- Explosion
Both 248 HP / 252 SpD Careful and 248 HP / 252 SpD Impish are good Avalugg spreads. Compared to 252 Special Defense, 252 Defense Avalugg takes around 10% less from physical attacks but around 30% more from special attacks. You can also get a lot of that 10% back by using an Impish nature with 252 SpD EVs, as unlike with EVs, Defense and Special Defense boosting natures have about the same effect on Avalugg. For these reasons, you should never be running Defense EVs on Avalugg.I desided to do some calcs with this thing to see if has any niche at all (you never know before you calc)
With some atk investment you have a 50% to OHKO swanna after SR with explosion lol
60 Atk Pineco Explosion vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Swanna: 200-236 (68.7 - 81%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
rock slide does not even 3HKO because of Roost
Lets check out against other hazard removers (4 the lulz):
60 Atk Pineco Explosion vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Pelipper: 99-117 (30.6 - 36.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
60 Atk Pineco Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lumineon: 118-139 (34.5 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
60 Atk Pineco Explosion vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Avalugg: 81-96 (20.6 - 24.4%) -- 9.1% chance to 4HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
60 Atk Pineco Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Wartortle: 77-91 (23.9 - 28.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Stealth Rock
60 Atk Pineco Explosion vs. 248 HP / 160 Def Eviolite Togetic: 89-105 (28.4 - 33.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
60 Atk Pineco Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Articuno: 168-200 (52.3 - 62.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
60 Atk Pineco Explosion vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mantine: 184-217 (55 - 64.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
60 Atk Pineco Explosion vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Vullaby: 119-141 (34.5 - 40.9%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
As you probably see, Pineco is weak as shit and can only deal with one Offensive defogger (and that is asuming you even get SR up, which is really hard when practically everything can switchin with little problem. Dont use Pineco (unless you are a dick and use the OH NO ITS PINECO set, which also sucks but is annoying af for HO) PS pineco does not outspeed any of these. neither does it survive anything worth mentioning
On the talk on Rapid spinners, what seems to be the best possible Avalugg set? I did some calcs but I did not find anything special it survives with 248/252+ sp.def, and 248/252+ def seems kinda like overkill since only like 4 physical pokemon can break it without setup or hazards lol.
Lopunny moved from PU to RU
Altaria moved from PU to UU
Leafeon moved from NU to PU
Pidgeot moved from PU to RU
Beedrill moved from PU to UU
:] Looking forward to using ityoooo leafeon
when is the ladder gonna be updated
It does face much competition from the multiple other Grass-type Pokemon the the tier, not to mention multiple Pokemon which can easily take its hits. I think its main thing is being bulky enough to Swords Dance + Baton Pass which is always nice for other mons on the teamTaking a quick look at it, it seems like an alright pokemon. low special defense and HP with a tier with threats like Ninetails and Camerupt may give it some trouble. Knock off being in its movepool is a godsend, especially for people like me who don't like using Sneasel.
However, being at 95 speed is great when you consider that Flareon and Glaceon are both at 65 , and combined with its awesome 130 base defense, 110 base attack, and the ability to ACTUALLY BOOST (swords dance) along with awesome moves like leaf blade, x-scissor, and knock off make leafeon a great addition to the PU family. I can't wait to try this thing out.
How a lower ladder player poorly uses a pokemon has no affect at all on its brokeness or effectiveness. That is such an ignorant baseless statement if a few bad lower ladder games are your only argument. the problem with garbodor is it's bulk, consistency, great abilities, and good movepool allow it to do good damage and easily set up multiple layers of hazards every game (possibly multiple times in a game) making it far to easy to apply the pressure of spikes and toxic spikes.I've never used Garbodor myself - I think when I first played in the tier a couple of weeks ago I saw low-ladder players, hearing how great it was, shoving it onto their team but then using it like idiots (eg keeping bulky Garb in on Pelipper, Avalugg etc, that can just sit there whittling it down and removing its hazards) and therefore I myself believed it to be overrated.
It isn't overrated.I've never used Garbodor myself - I think when I first played in the tier a couple of weeks ago I saw low-ladder players, hearing how great it was, shoving it onto their team but then using it like idiots (eg keeping bulky Garb in on Pelipper, Avalugg etc, that can just sit there whittling it down and removing its hazards) and therefore I myself believed it to be overrated.
Sigh, please read my posts. What I meant (and, moreover, what I actually said) was that I saw other players using the thing really badly and hence didn't get why everyone was so afraid of it. I said "believed" - past tense. Obviously Garbodor is a huge threat which is centralising to the metagame, very reminiscent of Gen V NU Scolipede (which was probably even worse but stayed around forever).
But please don't crap on my opinions without even reading them just because you haven't seen the name in the PU forums before.
So are you saying other users of Toxic Spikes are broken? That thing like Nidorino using them are broken? I don't really think that banning a hazard is the route to go, this seems very similar to asking to ban Stealth Rock lol.I think that (T)Spikes need to be suspected more than Garbodor, they are the main problem, in a tier with few good defogers and only one "decent" spinner, any decent mon than can drop in the future with one of this moves can end being deadly, if we ban Garbodor, then people can move to Roselia, who can set up common mons like Poli, Serp, Tangela, etc., and also put asleep any Spinner/Defogger.
I really disagree with this for a few reasons. The main reasons that Garbodor is broken but Roselia isn't are that Roselia doesn't set up Toxic Spikes on nearly as many threats as Garbodor, and that Roselia only really fits on stall and balance, while Garbodor can function very effectively on all types of teams. Unlike Garbodor, Roselia can't do much to pressure defoggers and avalugg other than put them to sleep, which makes it much easier to remove Roselia's hazards, along with its lack of offensive presence in general. Roselia also isn't nearly as versatile as Garbodor, as it can only run defensive sets effectively. Where Garbodor shines the most is arguably on offensive teams, a place where Roselia simply can't perform well. I don't think anyone thinks hazard stall is broken either.I think that (T)Spikes need to be suspected more than Garbodor, they are the main problem, in a tier with few good defogers and only one "decent" spinner, any decent mon than can drop in the future with one of this moves can end being deadly, if we ban Garbodor, then people can move to Roselia, who can set up common mons like Poli, Serp, Tangela, etc., and also put asleep any Spinner/Defogger.