Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread - Check post #2359

[yoloburn]

ummm.... no....

They dont do similar things at all. Literally the only similarity they have is Bullet Punch. Thast it.

Mega Scizor is a bulky defogger, bulky set up sweeper, or a set up sweeper. Metagross is a wallbreaker that s near unwallable. Scizor loses to a lot of mons such as Keldeo, Fast Heatran (and even SpDef if Sciz is bulky, and Zard X, to name a few. I wont go into detail about Megagross because I made a long ass post here, so ill let that post do the talking.

tl;dr Megagross and mega scizor are different, and Mega Scizor being in one rank should in no way influence Mega Metagross being in S where he belongs.

I don't think it's fair to say Bullet Punch is the only similarity. Just because Scizor can sweep doesn't mean it can't hit hard too. They share similar bulk and wallbreaking capabilities, but they do their job a little differently. Scizor doesn't actually have trouble with stuff like Skarm, Slowbro, Lando-T, Ferro, and Cress. There are less things on Stall that check it compared to Metagross, altho you can feel free to prove me wrong if I'm missing something. It also doesn't have 4MSS and destroys all the fast megas after an SD.

Also, as far as teambuilding goes, would you use Mega Metagross and Scizor on the same team? Probably not because they pretty much fill the same role IMO.

To be clear, I'm not saying Mega Metagross is not deserving of S-rank. Just wanted to see what people thought about it.

 

[DoABarrelRoll]

I really don't think Mega Metagross is as good as Latios, Zard X or freaking Greninja, and I don't feel I need to prepare for it the way I need to prepare for the three I mentioned. It has a shit base 70 speed before mega evolving, and there aren't THAT many Pokemon Meta forces out so it can freely go mega. I really hate the fact that it's checked by way many threats, especially Scarf Lando-T and Garchomp. Ferrothorn and Air Balloon Heatran also tend to set up hazards on it, or in Heatran's case, OHKO. Unless you're using Grass Knot, Mega Swampert lols at it and 2HKOes. Gyarados (SubDD or mega) and Mega Slowbro do not care about anything Metagross does and can use it as setup fodder. Also, Mega Metagross is yet another 4MSS case. It can't run Meteor Mash/Bullet Punch/Zen Headbutt/Earthquake/Grass Knot/Ice Punch/Pursuit/Agility on the same moveset. Meteor Mash/Bullet Punch/Zen Headbutt/Earthquake is probably your best bet, but you get raped by Lando-T and Mega Slowbro.

Therefore, I think Mega Metagross should stay A+.

 

[FieryTyrant]

I really don't think Mega Metagross is as good as Latios, Zard X or freaking Greninja, and I don't feel I need to prepare for it the way I need to prepare for the three I mentioned. It has a shit base 70 speed before mega evolving, and there aren't THAT many Pokemon Meta forces out so it can freely go mega. I really hate the fact that it's checked by way many threats, especially Scarf Lando-T and Garchomp. Ferrothorn and Air Balloon Heatran also tend to set up hazards on it, or in Heatran's case, OHKO. Unless you're using Grass Knot, Mega Swampert lols at it and 2HKOes. Gyarados (SubDD or mega) and Mega Slowbro do not care about anything Metagross does and can use it as setup fodder. Also, Mega Metagross is yet another 4MSS case. It can't run Meteor Mash/Bullet Punch/Zen Headbutt/Earthquake/Grass Knot/Ice Punch/Pursuit/Agility on the same moveset. Meteor Mash/Bullet Punch/Zen Headbutt/Earthquake is probably your best bet, but you get raped by Lando-T and Mega Slowbro.

Therefore, I think Mega Metagross should stay A+.

This is so conflicting man, I don't know what to really side with but after reading that I'm pretty convinced that Megagross probably isn't an S Rank Pokemon. It's so close to being one but it just isn't quite there.

 

[Clone]

I really don't think Mega Metagross is as good as Latios, Zard X or freaking Greninja, and I don't feel I need to prepare for it the way I need to prepare for the three I mentioned. It has a shit base 70 speed before mega evolving, and there aren't THAT many Pokemon Meta forces out so it can freely go mega. I really hate the fact that it's checked by way many threats, especially Scarf Lando-T and Garchomp. Ferrothorn and Air Balloon Heatran also tend to set up hazards on it, or in Heatran's case, OHKO. Unless you're using Grass Knot, Mega Swampert lols at it, and can easily revenge kill it in rainy weather. Gyarados (SubDD or mega) and Mega Slowbro do not care about anything Metagross does and can use it as setup fodder. Also, Mega Metagross is yet another 4MSS case. It can't run Meteor Mash/Bullet Punch/Zen Headbutt/Earthquake/Grass Knot/Ice Punch/Pursuit/Agility on the same moveset. Meteor Mash/Bullet Punch/Zen Headbutt/Earthquake is probably your best bet, but you get raped by Lando-T and Mega Slowbro.

Therefore, I think Mega Metagross should stay A+.

List of mons in S-A ranks that Metagross forces out to get a free Mega Evolution:

Latios, Keldeo not locked into Scald, Latias, Azumarill, Clefable, Mega Gardevoir, Heatran (unless Scarf or FastTran), Mega Pinsir, Thundurus (T-Wave is literally all he can do), Mega Venusaur, Mega Altaria, Mega Diancie (fear of BP which is getting more common), Mega Heracross, Terrakion, Jirachi, Kyurem-B, Magnezone, and Tyranitar.

Thats a lot of mons and thats only in the S-A ranks. on top of this, Garchomp in no way checks Gross because an Ice Punch to the face cleanly OHKOes. Ferro and Balloon Tran both lose to Hammer Arm variants, and even then Tran loses if he comes in on any move other than EQ since he dies the next turn. Mega Swampert should be something that every team has a check for, but Swampert loses if he switches in on Zen Headbutt if the Gross player is feeling ballsy. Also Gyarados can only check if he gets the 50-50 right between Hammer Arm and Zen Headbutt.

Also, the best set is Meteor Mash / Zen Headbutt / Ice Punch / Hammer Arm | EQ | GK, so no, Gross doesnt get raped by Lando-T unless its Scarfed (and even then he lives a fully invested EQ from full). Slowbro admittedly an option but one mon should not stop a mon like Gross from going to S, especially when that mon is relatively uncommon.

 

[Mr. Hothead]

I really don't think Mega Metagross is as good as Latios, Zard X or freaking Greninja, and I don't feel I need to prepare for it the way I need to prepare for the three I mentioned. It has a shit base 70 speed before mega evolving, and there aren't THAT many Pokemon Meta forces out so it can freely go mega. I really hate the fact that it's checked by way many threats, especially Scarf Lando-T and Garchomp. Ferrothorn and Air Balloon Heatran also tend to set up hazards on it, or in Heatran's case, OHKO. Unless you're using Grass Knot, Mega Swampert lols at it, and can easily revenge kill it in rainy weather. Gyarados (SubDD or mega) and Mega Slowbro do not care about anything Metagross does and can use it as setup fodder. Also, Mega Metagross is yet another 4MSS case. It can't run Meteor Mash/Bullet Punch/Zen Headbutt/Earthquake/Grass Knot/Ice Punch/Pursuit/Agility on the same moveset. Meteor Mash/Bullet Punch/Zen Headbutt/Earthquake is probably your best bet, but you get raped by Lando-T and Mega Slowbro.

Therefore, I think Mega Metagross should stay A+.

Its definetly on par with Latios, Zard X is probably better, and Greninja is the best pokemon in the meta hands down so he is on a whole other level and will probably be banned to ubers. sure it has a bad base speed but it also has favorable bulk and good attack+its ability. MGallade has 80 base speed in pre mega evo and no one is saying anything about that. Garchomp is honestly only used as an SR setter and you shouldnt be putting out MMeta on the first turn. Air Balloon isnt as used as it was before and cant switch into MMeta if its going for anything other than EQ. Ok, are you gonna point out every Ground type that obviously fucks it up now? Even then Swampert has to get rain up, Mega Evolve, and tank a Zen Headbutt. MMeta has 4MSS, cant argue with that. And also who the fuck would run Bullet Punch, Grass Knot isnt a needed move and Ice Punch and Pursuit are out of the picture cause MMence is gone and why the fuck would you use Pursuit. Bullet Punch is useless, replace it with Agility or PuP and you have an above average sweeper that can take out many of its threats.

Pointing out its checks and its 4MSS does not stop it from being S rank. Did Slowbro stop Keldeo from being S rank in XY? No. Did Bisharp stop Latios from being S in XY? No. Same with MMeta. It is otherwise an amazing poke and its credit is all due to its amazing stat placement. Thank god the guy has 4MSS or this guy would probably be banned.

but also im agreeing with Flygon for D, but it does sound vulnerable to TFlame and Rotom W.

 

[AM]

Alright I want to establish that M-Gross doesn't have trouble with Ferrothorn when running Hammer Arm, which is overall better than Earthquake for coverage reasons so no Ferrothorn is not an M-Gross answer unless you're one of those guys running Steel type move, Zen Headbutt, EQ, support/bullet punch. The difference between M-Gross and M-Scizor is that M-Gross has the ability to threaten more offensive builds than M-Scizor does with Tough Claw boost, typing, and its more beneficial stats in the meta. Also the fact that Lando-T has a much harder time checking M-Metagross than M-Scizor is one thing, so yeah using Lando-T, the most bulky of water types in the tier and rain which threatens so many play-styles by itself as some sort of concrete argument that M-Gross is on par with the majority of the A+ mons isn't exactly that great. 4 MSS would be an argument if it missed a huge portion of the meta not just singular threats that are covered with minimal support, which is fine for S rank.

Sort of ninja'd above but oh well.

 

[DoABarrelRoll]

Its definetly on par with Latios, Zard X is probably better, and Greninja is the best pokemon in the meta hands down so he is on a whole other level and will probably be banned to ubers. sure it has a bad base speed but it also has favorable bulk and good attack+its ability. MGallade has 80 base speed in pre mega evo and no one is saying anything about that. Garchomp is honestly only used as an SR setter and you shouldnt be putting out MMeta on the first turn. Air Balloon isnt as used as it was before and cant switch into MMeta if its going for anything other than EQ. Ok, are you gonna point out every Ground type that obviously fucks it up now? Even then Swampert has to get rain up, Mega Evolve, and tank a Zen Headbutt. MMeta has 4MSS, cant argue with that. And also who the fuck would run Bullet Punch, Grass Knot isnt a needed move and Ice Punch and Pursuit are out of the picture cause MMence is gone and why the fuck would you use Pursuit. Bullet Punch is useless, replace it with Agility or PuP and you have an above average sweeper that can take out many of its threats.

Pointing out its checks and its 4MSS does not stop it from being S rank. Did Slowbro stop Keldeo from being S rank in XY? No. Did Bisharp stop Latios from being S in XY? No. Same with MMeta. It is otherwise an amazing poke and its credit is all due to its amazing stat placement. Thank god the guy has 4MSS or this guy would probably be banned.

but also im agreeing with Flygon for D, but it does sound vulnerable to TFlame and Rotom W.

Mega Gallade generally has room for Protect, as Knock Off + Zen Headbutt + Close Combat will do. Garchomp isn't used only as a SR user, it can also go Scarf or even Mega to act as a great wallbreaker.

Also, Bullet Punch is very viable on Mega Metagross, as it really doesn't want to risk a speed tie with a ~40% Lati@s or get outsped by ~50% Mega Sceptile/Alakazam/Aero or Gengar (or even the rare Weavile and Torn-T). Ice Punch is very useful if you hate dragons, although I generally prefer EQ. Pursuit can take out Lati@s and Gengar, which usually flee when they see Meta. PuP? LOL.

Did Tyranitar stop Lati@s from being S-rank in BW? Pretty much. Did Politoed stop Ninetales from being S-rank? Definitely.

 

[Mr. Hothead]

Agree with this, but I'll expand on his thoughts.
Metagross is a fearsome physical sweeper. It is capable of sweeping through teams that aren't prepared. 4SMS isn't as big of a problem for me, but I think the biggest problem with it is its typing. Steel / Psychic is an OK offensive typing, but an awful defensive typing. It leaves it weak to a lot of common attacking types like Ground, Fire, Ghost and Dark. It's coverage, while good, still leaves a lot to be desired. It also has no way of recovering health, leaving it easy to get worn down through out the battle. Combine this with the problems that have been already stated, it's a strong A+, but certainly not S.

Flygon is a Pokémon I've nominated before, and I whole-heartedly agree that it should be on the rankings. Being a Defogger that is immune to Spikes and resistant to Stealth Rocks is a huge thing. It might face competition, but it does have advantages over Latios.

Tl;dr: Mega Metagross should stay A+, Flygon to D

Resisting Normal, Grass, Ice, Flying, Psychic, Rock, Dragon, Steel AND Fairy is horrible+immune to Poison? Yes that offensive typing is trash, right?

Fire isnt too common tbh, Ground is p common, Dark isnt that common and Ghost is extremely rare. Its coverage basically only gets fucked by Bulky Waters, and theres something called Grass Types. Recovery is also a problem with him, but his amazing bulk helps imo. And as i said it is easily the best offensive mega in OU, having few flaws and putting way to much pressure on the battlefield.

Honestly MMeta is a late game sweeper, and it does a hella good job of it. Once its 2 checks are gone its open season for him.


Aside from me bitching about mmeta, I support these drops:


Mew to A

Keldeo to A+

Lando T to S

Greninja to S+

Azumarill to A+

MVenu to A/A-

MSableye to A+

MBro to S

Mega Gallade generally has room for Protect, as Knock Off + Zen Headbutt + Close Combat will do. Garchomp isn't used only as a SR user, it can also go Scarf or even Mega to act as a great wallbreaker.

Also, Bullet Punch is very viable on Mega Metagross, as it really doesn't want to risk a speed tie with a ~40% Lati@s or get outsped by ~50% Mega Sceptile/Alakazam/Aero or Gengar (or even the rare Weavile and Torn-T). Ice Punch is very useful if you hate dragons, although I generally prefer EQ. Pursuit can take out Lati@s and Gengar, which usually flee when they see Meta. PuP? LOL.

Did Tyranitar stop Lati@s from being S-rank in BW? Pretty much. Did Politoed stop Ninetales from being S-rank? Definitely.

MGarchomp is so passive it isnt even funny, Scarfchomp has seen better days, etc.

BP MMeta is just a waste of a slot. What the fuck is it hitting? Diancie before Mega Evolution? MAero that you shouldnt stay into? The rare Alakazam, or that extremely powerful HP Fire from MSceptile? Its not getting hurt by priority, and it loses out on raw power that it could have if it replaced BP. I take back what i said on Ice Punch as it still could be used but is not needed as much as it was in MMence meta. also why would Gengar not stay into mmeta, it has a good chance to OHKO with Shadow Ball. PuP can be used as a substitute for Hone Claws if you want to attack too.

 

[heritage]

Resisting Normal, Grass, Ice, Flying, Psychic, Rock, Dragon, Steel AND Fairy is horrible+immune to Poison? Yes that offensive typing is trash, right?

Fire isnt too common tbh, Ground is p common, Dark isnt that common and Ghost is extremely rare. Its coverage basically only gets fucked by Bulky Waters, and theres something called Grass Types. Recovery is also a problem with him, but his amazing bulk helps imo. And as i said it is easily the best offensive mega in OU, having few flaws and putting way to much pressure on the battlefield.

Honestly MMeta is a late game sweeper, and it does a hella good job of it. Once its 2 checks are gone its open season for him.


Aside from me bitching about mmeta, I support these drops:


Mew to A

Keldeo to A+

Lando T to S

Greninja to S+

Azumarill to A+

MVenu to A/A-

MSableye to A+

MBro to S

Ghost is a rare attacking type? Gengar says hello. Frankly everything with Shadow Ball says hello.
Fire isn't common? Heatran says hello. Everything with Fire coverage says hello.
Dark isn't that common? Bisharp says hello.
Knock Off says hello. Even though it doesn't affect MetaGross, it's still extremely common

 

[Kurona]

Ghost is a rare attacking type? Gengar says hello. Frankly everything with Shadow Ball says hello.

Am I missing something here, because I can't say I remember anything but Sableye and Gengar carry Shadow Ball...? It's not exactly something I think of as a common move. Gengar you speed-tie with regardless and outright beat with agility sets.

 

[Mr. Hothead]

When is the next update happening? It has been roughly 2 months since ORAS OU on Showndown, 17 days since the official release and 6 days since the mod got back so I'm sure enough time has passed. A- and B* discussion are like wayyyy more interesting.

sorry to spoil your dreams but alexwolf isnt a robot who is designed to update this thread daily. Give it time and he will do it.

 

[Celticpride]

I guess Assault Vest Raikou can run Shadow Ball, but my point is, its typing makes it extremely vulnerable to a lot of things. Not to mention that Steel / Psychic isn't too great offensively either. Bulky Lando completely stops it, Scarf Gengar can do a huge chunk, and M-Sab out right beats it 1v1. It's just an opinion.

-1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 248-292 (64.9 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 210-248 (69.7 - 82.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Landorus-T: 340-400 (106.5 - 125.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Even the bulkiest of Landorus-T can't safely switch-in and beat it, and Scarf Lando-T can't always come in safely to outspeed and check. I wouldn't be too concerned about the Ghost weakness either. It 2HKOs Sableye after very little chip damage, and Gengar has trouble switching in on any move.

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 132-156 (43.4 - 51.3%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO

Even Bisharp's Sucker Punch isn't close to a guaranteed OHKO.

252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 257-304 (85.3 - 100.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

Metagross has such a ridiculous amount of natural bulk that even it's weaknesses, however common, don't matter a whole lot. I was on the fence about it being in S, but it's so difficult to check/revenge, let alone counter.

 

[FieryTyrant]

-1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-T: 248-292 (64.9 - 76.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Metagross: 210-248 (69.7 - 82.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Landorus-T: 340-400 (106.5 - 125.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Even the bulkiest of Landorus-T can't safely switch-in and beat it, and Scarf Lando-T can't always come in safely to outspeed and check. I wouldn't be too concerned about the Ghost weakness either. It 2HKOs Sableye after very little chip damage, and Gengar has trouble switching in on any move.

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Sableye: 132-156 (43.4 - 51.3%) -- 4.7% chance to 2HKO

Even Bisharp's Sucker Punch isn't close to a guaranteed OHKO.

252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 257-304 (85.3 - 100.9%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

Metagross has such a ridiculous amount of natural bulk that even it's weaknesses, however common, don't matter a whole lot. I was on the fence about it being in S, but it's so difficult to check/revenge, let alone counter.

You kind of just confirmed that even though it's powerful, it gets worn down quite easily, and have no recovery.

 

[Mr. Hothead]

You kind of just confirmed that even though it's powerful, it gets worn down quite easily, and have no recovery.

He also confirmed how his amazing defense even blocks pokemon that threaten it with SE moves. LO Sucker Punch STAB Bisharp cant even reliably OHKO Meta without rocks, which is extremely impressive.

 

[Wargreymon]

Lets analyse Mega Metagross. (Feel free to disagree or add more points)

Pros; It outspeeds most of the unboosted meta, has a pretty damn strong typing in terms of resistances, has very high natural bulk which in tandem with typing allows it to switch in and makes it tough to revenge kill, hits really hard with moderately powerful STABs and tough claws, can actually make good use of pre mega ability in order to smack mons like defensive Landorus-T on the switch, and it has a pretty good move pool with decent coverage and cool boosting moves that allow it to play a variety of rolls.

Cons; Slow before mega evolving, not the greatest offensive typing in the world (this is barely a con), STABs are kind of inaccurate (neither is this), and can be worn down due to lack of recovery.

Come on, sure it has some flaws and it's not perfect, but as a whole it has beautifully rounded stats and its pros vastly outweigh its cons. I listed 4 cons and two of those are pathetic excuses for cons, I just listed them because I was struggling to think of anything else wrong with Metagross. It's a threat to almost all play styles and every team should be wary of it when building. Regardless of how the meta adapts to it later on, right now it's a defining threat and I think it deserves to be moved up to S. Plus, it's blue!

 

[Celticpride]

You kind of just confirmed that even though it's powerful, it gets worn down quite easily, and have no recovery.

Quite easily? That's a super effective attack coming off of 145 base attack. It is uninvested, but that's still impressive bulk. Mega Metagross has one of the best defensive typing in the game, and 80/150/110 bulk. That should in no way be considered easy to wear down.

252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 115-136 (38.2 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Mega Manectric Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Metagross: 139-165 (46.1 - 54.8%) -- 60.5% chance to 2HKO

Those are two decently strong neutral hits, and neither of them 2HKO. You've got to be carrying super effective coverage to efficently break Metagross, and even then it might not be enough (see the Bisharp calc above). Let's not even touch on the recovery part, Mega Mawile didn't have reliable recovery and it could still break shit all over the place. Not saying Meta is bannable at this point, just that Steel typing and decent enough bulk is usually all you need when you have absurd power.

ShadesOfSolomon I wasn't really trying to misrepresent it's bulk, more just show that some above average neutral attacks still don't 2HKO. You more or less have to pack the strongest of neutral hits or SE coverage to even have a chance at 2HKOing. I adjusted my wording a bit.

 

[MrAldo]

The reliable recovery is valid but not so strong for megagross case. Because of how bulky it is and how it can learn moves to get over its common checks like Ice Punch for Landorus-Therian, Hammer Arm for ferrothorn, HP fire or Thunder Punch for skarmory, even grass knot if you need to get over megabro! Right now that versatily is impressive and with Tough Claws all this options (varying hp fire but isnt something bad per say) can do considerable damage to pretty much everything.

Also megagross has the ability to run a good couple of sets. An agility set to act as a profficient late-game cleaner, an all-out attacker that can be devastating even a mixed set that can be a pain for plenty of teams. Of course not megagross lacks reliable recovery but that can be overcomed with proper team support.

Definitely a S rank in my book.

 

[ShadesOfSolomon]

Quite easily? That's a super effective attack coming off of 145 base attack. It is uninvested, but that's still impressive bulk. Mega Metagross has one of the best defensive typing in the game, and 80/150/110 bulk. That should in no way be considered easy to wear down.

252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 115-136 (38.2 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Mega Manectric Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Metagross: 139-165 (46.1 - 54.8%) -- 60.5% chance to 2HKO

Those are two of the strongest neutral attacks I can think of in OU, and neither of them 2HKO. You've got to be carrying super effective coverage to efficently break Metagross, and even then it might not be enough (see the Bisharp calc above). Let's not even touch on the recovery part, Mega Mawile didn't have reliable recovery and it could still break shit all over the place. Not saying Meta is bannable at this point, just that Steel typing and decent enough bulk is usually all you need when you have absurd power.

Minor point, but Mega Gyara's Waterfall and Mega Manectric's Thunderbolt are far from 'two of the strongest neutral attacks in OU.' For example:

252 Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 165-195 (54.8 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 154-183 (51.1 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Adaptability Beedrill X-Scissor vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 136-162 (45.1 - 53.8%) -- 90.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Still an S rank in my book, but it's misrepresenting its bulk somewhat to construe it as such.

 

[Wargreymon]

The reliable recovery is valid but not so strong for megagross case. Because of how bulky it is and how it can learn moves to get over its common checks like Ice Punch for Landorus-Therian, Hammer Arm for ferrothorn, HP fire or Thunder Punch for skarmory, even grass knot if you need to get over megabro! Right now that versatily is impressive and with Tough Claws all this options (varying hp fire but isnt something bad per say) can do considerable damage to pretty much everything.

Also megagross has the ability to run a good couple of sets. An agility set to act as a profficient late-game cleaner, an all-out attacker that can be devastating even a mixed set that can be a pain for plenty of teams. Of course not megagross lacks reliable recovery but that can be overcomed with proper team support.

Definitely a S rank in my book.

Thunder punch and HP fire can't get past Skarmory. The only way it beats Skarmory is hammer punch roost shenanigans.

 

[Kurona]

Minor point, but Mega Gyara's Waterfall and Mega Manectric's Thunderbolt are far from 'two of the strongest neutral attacks in OU.' For example:

252 Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 165-195 (54.8 - 64.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Lopunny High Jump Kick vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 154-183 (51.1 - 60.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Adaptability Beedrill X-Scissor vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Metagross: 136-162 (45.1 - 53.8%) -- 90.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Still an S rank in my book, but it's misrepresenting its bulk somewhat to construe it as such.

X-scissor Beedrill...?

 

[heritage]

X-scissor Beedrill...?

That's a thing. It does more damage than U-Turn and it doesn't allow Beedrill to switch back in to Stealth Rocks, and it also doesn't force you to switch.
Some people run it over Protect, which isn't a good thing.

 

[WideTomato]

After playing a lot with Mega Zard Y, I'm going to talk about it, its A+ now, so i guess it fits the S-A+ discussion ^^

(A+) --> A
All right, this thing is still a threat, and one of the hardest hitting pokemon in the entire meta (i believe it actually is the hardest hitter, talking about unboosted attacks) With its powerful 159 base special attack stats and incredible ability in drought. Its not only decent base 100 speed kinda holds it down, as it is unable to outspeed a even bigger portion of checks after the shift to ORAS. Some might argue that the new megas dont hold it down too much, as they cant switch in at all, and i agree. If charizard can get in on something that cant hurt it (ferro, skarm etc.) it can often get a kill, after a few common checks such as latias etc. have been worn down, which is easy with team support.

Now, charizard was already a bit restricted when it came to team building, and the cookie cutter charizard Y team consisted of latios, keldeo, ttar and zard, and just about every single of these mons have gotten harder to use thanks to some of the new megas that can easily rip through it, such as luponny, gallade and metagross. And with these pokemon being extremely common in the new meta, it is significantly harder to properly support charizard, which gives higher risk and lower reward by using mega zard Y, than it did in XY.

TL;DR Mega Charizard Y is still effective, but is harder to support, justifying it to move down a sub-rank.

 

[theV8man]

When it comes to Mega Metagross:

1. The RP/Agility sets are easy to wall without much effort. Bulky waters/steels take this on. There are better options for cleaning and this set can't really be used as an argument for Mega Metagross rising to S rank.

2. The all-out attacking set, on the other hand, is better. Its wallbreaking capabilities are held back by the fact that it can't cover everything it wants with four moves, so it needs that support. It's not that hard to play around it to get an upper hand because of slightly weak coverage options. The fact that it's likely to run a Spa neutral nature means it's weakening one of its defenses, thus being more prone to getting worn down. But its combination of speed and power on STABS is great.

Overall, I don't think it's S rank. I personally don't find myself having to consciously prepare for it because I always seem to have somewhat strong Dark/Fire/Ground coverage, and with the popularity of Char X, Greninja, Bisharp, and of course Lando-t and Slowbro, I don't see it doing superb in the metagame. A+ for me.

 

[FieryTyrant]

When it comes to Mega Metagross:

1. The RP/Agility sets are easy to wall without much effort. Bulky waters/steels take this on. There are better options for cleaning and this set can't really be used as an argument for Mega Metagross rising to S rank.

2. The all-out attacking set, on the other hand, is better. Its wallbreaking capabilities are held back by the fact that it can't cover everything it wants with four moves, so it needs that support. It's not that hard to play around it to get an upper hand because of slightly weak coverage options. But its combination of speed and power on STABS is great.

Overall, I don't think it's S rank. I personally don't find myself having to consciously prepare for it because I always seem to have somewhat strong Dark/Fire/Ground coverage, and with the popularity of Char X, Greninja, Bisharp, and of course Lando-t and Slowbro, I don't see it doing superb in the metagame. A+ for me.

This is literally the EXACT reason it isn't S Rank. And while I do love Megagross and adore its sheer power and bulk, there's just some things that hold it back from being truly S rank worthy.
A+ from me as well.

 

[RoyalDispenser]

What make metagross S IMO is the unpredictability that can cause games.

Could he switch in and pursuit trap my latios?
Could he predict and ice punch my lando on switch?
Could he EQ my bisharp/heatran switchin?
Could he meteor mash my clefable?
Could he zen headbutt my rotom wash?
Could he setup rock polish and sweep?
Could he bullet punch my diancie/beedrill?
Could he set up stealth rocks for free?
Could he have grass knot for my swampert?
Is he uncompetitive with meteor occasionally deciding the game?

There's alot of situations you put metagross in that he can handle.. while he does have 4MSS that's the thing that makes him all the more scarier, you don't know what coverage he IS carrying forcing you to potential sap a mon or two. Which was a huge problem with older OU megas like mawile. His stats and bulk isn't the main issue it's how pressuring and unpredictable in practice he can be.