That I can agree with, but as you said, we were mainly talking about their roles as Dragon Dance sweepers. In fact, I should have made the statement you bolded a bit clearer. Dragon Dance Zard X is walled by Mega Slowbro, and also by Heatran if not carrying EQ (again, most DD variants don't), but more bulkier builds either run SD for Slowbro like you mentioned, or run EQ if using the WoW set.
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Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread - Check post #2359
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Oh right, i should have paid attention at the whole discussion instead of picking the bit i disagreed with. My bad.
I'd like to propose Mega Venusaur dropping from A to A-
His main role in X and Y was to stall with Leech Seed or be a bulky special attacker which is now contested by Mega Sableye (God save us all) and Mega Slowbro with Calm Mind respectively. The addition of Mega Gallade and Mega Metagross especiallly also threaten MegaVenu with their STAB Zen Headbutts and their superior speed. He's still a solid mon that can fit in many teams and can be a nuisance for the enemy but he can't do this as effectively as before due to competition for the role and new threats.
His main role in X and Y was to stall with Leech Seed or be a bulky special attacker which is now contested by Mega Sableye (God save us all) and Mega Slowbro with Calm Mind respectively. The addition of Mega Gallade and Mega Metagross especiallly also threaten MegaVenu with their STAB Zen Headbutts and their superior speed. He's still a solid mon that can fit in many teams and can be a nuisance for the enemy but he can't do this as effectively as before due to competition for the role and new threats.
I'd like to ask about how powerful the arguments 'This pokemon has 4MSS' and 'This pokemon can handle all its counters' are and which one is more powerful. Most of the time when a pokemon who is able to deal with a lot of threats (e.g. greninja, metagross, etc) is under discussion on one side there are people who post 'This pokemon has such a large movepool that even swampert can't counter metagross because it can carry grass knot' while as a counter-argument people post something along the lines of 'Metagross has a tough time sweeping through teams because it either gets hard walled by gliscor or heatran, depending on whether it carries eq or ice punch respectively'.
So, which one of the two sides is wrong in cases like this and if it depends, how can be determined which side is correct? And is having multiple moves to be able to handle specific would-be checks/counters while getting walled by others a good or a bad thing? Because for now it's just a game of tennis shaped like an argument.
So, which one of the two sides is wrong in cases like this and if it depends, how can be determined which side is correct? And is having multiple moves to be able to handle specific would-be checks/counters while getting walled by others a good or a bad thing? Because for now it's just a game of tennis shaped like an argument.
4MSS only applies if the loss of a move makes it walled by a significant portion of the meta. If it's a 4MSS to the point where it's only a couple of singular threats in the case of something like greninja, where it also has plenty of pros such as speed and versatility to overlook that negative, then it can only be weighted so much if it requires a higher amount of team support. There's not necessarily a right or wrong with these arguments but that's just something to consider.
AM's answer is spot-on, and to add on I believe the flexibility of your slots is also a large factor. For example, Greninja basically has 2-3 slots to carry whatever he wants depending on your team since Protean makes STAB a moot point and since it pretty much just carries 4 attacks of your choosing (not counting Spikes sets obviously). Something like Lucario on the other hand really only has one slot since Close Combat, Swords Dance and Extreme Speed are pretty much mandatory, so while he has a decent number of coverage moves to cover a very large range of threats (Crunch, Iron Tail, Ice Punch), realistically he can only carry 1 coverage move, which usually leaves a large part of the meta left to wall him after you choose one.
I would like us to discuss Mega Sceptile extensively, as both A and A- ranks seem appropriate for it. I will be comparing Mega Sceptile to Mega Lopunny a lot, because they are both excellent Pokemon against offense, with similar Speed tiers, not particularly bulky, and have trouble getting past walls. At a quick glance, what Mega Sceptile has over Mega Lopunny is different STABs, which give it the ability to threaten Water-, Ground-, and Dragon-types more effectively than Mega Lopunny, immunity to Thunder Wave and Volt Switch, and the ability to soft check Water- and Electric-types. On the other hand, Mega Lopunny hits harder thanks to High Jump Kick, is more versatile as it only needs its STABs to function properly, has Fake Out to MEvolve safely no matter the foe (even though Sceptile can also MEvolve quite easily most of the time, thanks to its excellent base Speed) and pick off weakened Pokemon, and is harder to check or counter as it has a more spammable STAB and the ability to bypass checks and counters with strategies such as SubPass, SubEncore, Power Up Punch + Ice Punch, etc, or just support the team in other ways, such as Healing Wish. Finally, Mega Lopunny is Pursuit and Stealth Rock resistant, which may not be big but is a nice boon that makes wearing it down or putting it to priority range much harder.
Imo, Mega Lopunny is clearly the superior MEvo, as it is more self-reliant, needs less prediction, is more versatile, is more priority resilient (Sucker Punch resist is a boon on offensive teams), and also has useful priority. How big is the gap between Mega Lopunny's and Mega Sceptile's viability though? Do you guys feel that Sceptile's STABs and resistances / immunities are useful enough to push it into A rank, or is A- enough for Mega Sceptile, where other anti-offense Pokemon and cleaners such as Mega Aerodactyl reside? I am leaning towards A-, because there are many Pokemon that can reliably check or wall Mega Sceptile, such as Mega Metagross, Clefable, Mega Altaria, Mega Scizor, Talonflame, Mega Gardevoir, Mega Venusaur, Jirachi, Chansey, Celebi, Mandibuzz, Togekiss, Sylveon, Amoonguss, Klefki, as well as a ton of priority users and scarfers (Landorus-T, Latios, Icy Wind Keldeo, Hydreigon, Mamoswine, Weavile, Mega Pinsir, Bisharp), and in general it needs a decent amount of support to be effective, such as strong wallbreakers in order to clean up late-game, and teammates to handle all the Pokemon that give it troubles.
Imo, Mega Lopunny is clearly the superior MEvo, as it is more self-reliant, needs less prediction, is more versatile, is more priority resilient (Sucker Punch resist is a boon on offensive teams), and also has useful priority. How big is the gap between Mega Lopunny's and Mega Sceptile's viability though? Do you guys feel that Sceptile's STABs and resistances / immunities are useful enough to push it into A rank, or is A- enough for Mega Sceptile, where other anti-offense Pokemon and cleaners such as Mega Aerodactyl reside? I am leaning towards A-, because there are many Pokemon that can reliably check or wall Mega Sceptile, such as Mega Metagross, Clefable, Mega Altaria, Mega Scizor, Talonflame, Mega Gardevoir, Mega Venusaur, Jirachi, Chansey, Celebi, Mandibuzz, Togekiss, Sylveon, Amoonguss, Klefki, as well as a ton of priority users and scarfers (Landorus-T, Latios, Icy Wind Keldeo, Hydreigon, Mamoswine, Weavile, Mega Pinsir, Bisharp), and in general it needs a decent amount of support to be effective, such as strong wallbreakers in order to clean up late-game, and teammates to handle all the Pokemon that give it troubles.
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M-Sceptile is A- for me simply for the fact it has some serious issues with bulky fairy types not named Azumarill, think M-Garde, Sylveon, and Togekiss. x4 weak to Ice absolutely blows when Sash Mamoswine is a norm on offensive builds with Weavile being a contender as a solid check if M-Sceptile doesn't get the luxury to be behind a Substitute. M-Sceptile I feel isn't exactly linear but M-Lopunny simply has more versatility against much more of the meta where it can at least provide support to be more team efficient along with its already self sufficient traits. M-Sceptile is fantastic against Offense and really solid against Balanced but I feel M-Lopunny is much more of a burden to face than M-Sceptile is, from my experience at least.
Actually, Sceptile already beats Mega Gardevoir and some Clefable/Sylveon.
This was originally posted in the WIP analysis for the Mixed AAA set, and Iron Tail is only actually needed for Calm Clefable and Cleric Sylveon. Pure Special might be able to nab the 2HKOs on Clefable and Sylveon.
I'd say I agree with you when it comes to Sceptile being in A-. It is so much more annoying to face Lopunny. Having a fighting type these days is extremely useful because you have something that can check Bisharp. Not to mention it checks Mega Sableye. The best support Sceptile brings to the table is its ability to switch into Rotom-W quite consistently, and its immunity to that priority Thunder Wave. If there's another thing Sceptile has, it's the ability to hit a lot of things super-effectively. But Lopunny will always be able to hit something pretty hard for neutral damage anyway. Overall, Lopunny's power, utility and variety makes it quite a lot more useful than Sceptile. I'd say there should be at least a gap of two ranks between the Pokemon.
Sceptile does not want to switch into Rotom-W willy-nilly because it doesn't like getting Burned, which hurts Sub and Mixed sets a lot. It is an amazing check, however.
Overall not a very happy group of Pokemon. The shift to ORAS was not in their favor in any sense, and I think they all deserve to drop.
Dragonite absolutely hates the addition of new Fairy-types, like Mega Altaria and Mega Diancie, who both check it with ease. It's still a viable Pokemon without a doubt, but putting it on the same level as Mega Diancie is blasphemy. I'd say its CB set's niche as both as a revenge killer and a wallbreaker is worth B+, thus putting it on the same level as Mega Alakazam.
Landorus-T has become one of the most common Pokemon in ORAS, and with that influx in popularity, the reasons to use Gliscor have gotten smaller. First, it's hard to fit both Gliscor and Landorus-T on one team, so if you decide to use Scarf Landog or Defensive Landog, using Gliscor is pretty much out of the question. Second, as Lando-T's usage goes up, Lando-I's usage is restricted. As Gliscor is famed mostly for its handling on Landorus, its viability has taken a hit along with Lando-I's. Gliscor was, in XY, also famous for its Physically defensive set, capable of checking mega heracross flawlessly. Now, thanks to the addition of better Fighting-type Megas, Mega Heracross's usage is faltering, thus lowering the need for Gliscor even more. I think B+ is better for this guy; putting it in the same rank as Diancie is absurd.
Like I just said, Mega Heracross's usage is slowly decreasing. This is mainly due to the addition of two pretty much inarguably better Fighting-type megas: Gallade and Lopunny. Heracross is still good; it isn't directly outclassed by any means, it just is more overshadowed by other things than it has ever been, and I think a simple move to A- would reflect that.
Mega Medicham, however, is not that lucky. Look at Gallade, and then look at Medicham. What advantages does Medicham actually have? There are two; one is priority and the second is initial power, which lets it perform better against bulky offense (Gallade has to setup to be threatening v. bulky things, whereas medicham doesn't). However, Gallade's better speed tier, bulk, STAB move, and access to Swords Dance makes it better most of the time. Call me crazy, but I think C+ is ideal for Medicham.
Mew's role in X&Y was as a superb stallbreaker. Now, a staple mon on stall, Sableye, absolutely walls it, so needless to say it isn't as good as it was versus stall. Incapable of really shining elsewhere, its only viability comes from breaking stall teams lacking sableye, which are pretty rare now. Still not bad, but not A worthy. I think B+ is best for it, since it isn't comparable to Diggersby in terms of overall effectiveness imho.
Terrakion, similar to Medicham and Heracross, hates the two new hotshot Fighting-type megas. Both act as extreme competition for it, thanks to their better Speed. In general, the OU metagame has really been fixed about the 110 speed tier, and Terrakion narrowly misses out on this tier, leaving it outsped and OHKOd by almost all of the inhabitants of the tier. It's still a solid lead, and I think a move to A- reflects that well.
Mega Tyranitar has already been touched on a lot. But just to summarize, it, thanks to its low base speed, is in general not as effective as other Dragon Dancers, such as Mega Altaria, Mega Charizard X, and Mega Gyarados. It's walled by both Rhyperior and Chesnaught, who are both coming to the forefront of stall in OU, checked easily by Scarf Landorus-T, and even revenge killed at +1 by Mega Lopunny, Mega Alakazam, and Mega Aerodactyl. Its base form, Tyranitar, is in general more viable than it is; with great increase to the amount of megas, it's almost foolish to waste it on something as mediocre as mega ttar. Don't get me wrong, it's a decent sweeper, but it requires so much support v. both offense and stall - much more than Mega Diancie, Diggersby, and Mega Swampert need. I think B rank is suited for it.
Can someone tell me why Mega Medicam deserves anything higher than D? It's completely outclassed, and it's only advantage over Gallade is Fake Out for a safe Mega Evolution. Initial power doesn't mean anything when Gallade is all around better as soon as an SD is up, then it can just blow through teams.
There is basically no reason to use Medicham over Gallade, so what's the point of even having it at C+? This may be a bit radical, but it really isn't that good anymore, and C+ is really generous for a completely outclassed Mega.
There is basically no reason to use Medicham over Gallade, so what's the point of even having it at C+? This may be a bit radical, but it really isn't that good anymore, and C+ is really generous for a completely outclassed Mega.
Regarding Mega Lopunny and Mega Sceptile,
Mega Sceptile (A-)-->(A-)
Mega Lopunny (A-)-->(A)
Mega Lopunny is easier to slap on a team since you can go for straight up spam(spam High Jump Kick or Return/Frustration) without considering what it's hitting. She also has the upside of being able to go for Healing Wish or Substitute sets. Fake Out is also a fantastic tool that helps chip away during the mid game and provides a safe Mega turn (Sceptile also doesn't have a problem with this, usually). This Mega mon can play with more teams than Mega Sceptile and has more versatility which is why I feel like it should be one rank above Mega Scept, two would be too much, imo.
Mega Sceptile gives you more coverage and a way to absorb predicted Thunder Waves. It is also fantastic against Rotom-W which I think should be noted. On the downside, Ice Shard wrecks it and I don't see too many sets other than the standard Dragon Pulse/Giga Drain/Focus Blast/Substitute one or some others with Leaf Storm on them so correct me if I'm wrong by saying that it's predictable.
Mega Sceptile (A-)-->(A-)
Mega Lopunny (A-)-->(A)
Mega Lopunny is easier to slap on a team since you can go for straight up spam(spam High Jump Kick or Return/Frustration) without considering what it's hitting. She also has the upside of being able to go for Healing Wish or Substitute sets. Fake Out is also a fantastic tool that helps chip away during the mid game and provides a safe Mega turn (Sceptile also doesn't have a problem with this, usually). This Mega mon can play with more teams than Mega Sceptile and has more versatility which is why I feel like it should be one rank above Mega Scept, two would be too much, imo.
Mega Sceptile gives you more coverage and a way to absorb predicted Thunder Waves. It is also fantastic against Rotom-W which I think should be noted. On the downside, Ice Shard wrecks it and I don't see too many sets other than the standard Dragon Pulse/Giga Drain/Focus Blast/Substitute one or some others with Leaf Storm on them so correct me if I'm wrong by saying that it's predictable.
Mega Medicham is still good. 100 speed is enough for what it does, and with it's power it's blowing past lots of stuff that Gallade can't. It's Fake Out has use out of Mega Evolving, which is to smack Greninja's and Latis who've gotten worn down. Also, initial power does mean something when you're obliterating Skarmory without even a boosting nature.
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 201-237 (60.1 - 70.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
I don't think putting Mega-Medicham in D would reflect its viability, it's for sure better than Flygon...
Mega Lopunny will go to A+, the question is how less viable than Mega Lopunny Mega Sceptile is.
I agree with you but because i haven't used Mega Medicham in ORAS yet and it's still very individually potent, i think C+ is enough for now. Remember during XY, when everybody was saying that Thundurus-T should go to C- or D because it's completely outclassed by Thundurus, and then the Agility set got some recognition, which caused Thundurus-T to raise to C+? Let's give to Medicham a little more time to prove if it has anything over Gallade, and if it doesn't, we can sentence it to the depths of the list.
+2 252 Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 264-312 (79 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Your point? Once Gallade gets a Swords Dance up, everything dies. Mega Medicham is much more frail also, and High Jump Kick isn't nearly as reliable as Close Combat.
100 Speed isn't bad, but it gets outsped by a lot of things it wants to outspeed, like the clusteres 110 base speed tier.
Gallade also has Shadow Sneak which does more than Fake Out anyways if you're really worried about Latios. Medicham has no viability in the OU meta game.
Alright, I'm willing to wait. Thundurus-T was never outclassed by Thundurus IMO anyways... It had a lot of niches that Medicham wishes it had against Gallade. (Like, if it had Agility too, I would have a different approach lol)
We'll see where it goes, but I think C+ is way too generous.
The advantages aren't huge, but they do exist.
#1:
252 Atk Mega Gallade Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 138-163 (35 - 41.3%) -- 75% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 210-247 (53.2 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 187-222 (47.4 - 56.3%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 310-366 (78.6 - 92.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Unaware Clefable can switch in on Gallade constantly throughout the match, while it cannot at all with Medicham. Gallade can't SD to overcome this, because of the nature of unaware. Quagsire is a similar case, but is more likely to be able to be killed by Gallade.
#2:
Random assortment of mons, but you should get the jist. Some mons, like the above, outspeed Gallade (and Medicham) and OHKO. Medicham is useful for having what is basically an Extreme Speed that is 1/2 normal-type and 1/2 steel type. It's able to revenge kill stuff like Altaria at +1 speed whereas Gallade just dies.
#3:
You may find yourself in the following situation: you have a Gallade/Medicham at 20% and are facing a Bronzong at 70%. You lose if you don't kill it, as its Gyro Ball is obviously going to annihilate you. In this situation, Medicham >>> Gallade, as Medicham is capable of dealing this damage and thus capable of winning the game for you, while Gallade is not. Yes, Gallade can hit hard thanks to SD, but it doesn't always get this chance.
Gallade and Medicham, despite their overall similarities, have different playstyles that allow Gallade not to 100% Medicham. If you require the immediate power over the power granted by setting up (in scenarios 1 and 3), Medicham >>> Gallade, and if you want something that can break walls and revenge kill things with a base speed greater than 109 (scenario 2), medicham is still better. These scenarios are still rather limited; gallade is still clearly the better Pokemon. However, I think Medicham has enough to be considered for C+.
Mega Sceptile seems to fall in line with Mega Aerodactyl to me, more so than Lopunny. They are both anti-offensive, share similar power levels, and sit in similar speed tiers. They also are both less useful against defensive teams (Aero can be useful against stall but has to drop offensive potential). They also both hard check one common meta pokemon, either Rotom or Talonflame. That leads me to think the Sceptile should be in A-.
Mega Heracross is a good fit in A- at the moment. While it did gain competition in the switch to ORAS, it actually gained some against Stall. A decrease in Gliscor and Doublade usage only benefits it, and it also happens to be one of the few (only?) things that can break both Mega Slowbro and Mega Sableye. It is harder for it to be a tank against offense, but it's wallbreaking prowess is still second to none.
I would like to hear what McMeghan has to say on Mega Manectric. He made the initial push to put Mega Man in A iirc. Manectric does virtually everything it did in XY just as well, and nothing faster than it is really a direct threat to it. It's also got notable advantages over Raikou, mostly Fire coverage, Intimidate, and better overall base stats. That gives it a better match-up against the usual Electric checks, including Ferro and Excadrill. It has a decent match-up with stall teams, being great at gaining momentum by luring Chansey, and then Volt Switching. It also kills Ferro, Skarm and Gliscor, creating 50/50s between either losing momentum by switching in Chansey or losing your physical wall. Manectric is also one of the few Pokemon who isn't crippled by Thundurus, and can 2HKO it in return. The real question seems to be if those extra advantages Mane has over Raikou are worth the Mega slot.
Mega Heracross is a good fit in A- at the moment. While it did gain competition in the switch to ORAS, it actually gained some against Stall. A decrease in Gliscor and Doublade usage only benefits it, and it also happens to be one of the few (only?) things that can break both Mega Slowbro and Mega Sableye. It is harder for it to be a tank against offense, but it's wallbreaking prowess is still second to none.
I would like to hear what McMeghan has to say on Mega Manectric. He made the initial push to put Mega Man in A iirc. Manectric does virtually everything it did in XY just as well, and nothing faster than it is really a direct threat to it. It's also got notable advantages over Raikou, mostly Fire coverage, Intimidate, and better overall base stats. That gives it a better match-up against the usual Electric checks, including Ferro and Excadrill. It has a decent match-up with stall teams, being great at gaining momentum by luring Chansey, and then Volt Switching. It also kills Ferro, Skarm and Gliscor, creating 50/50s between either losing momentum by switching in Chansey or losing your physical wall. Manectric is also one of the few Pokemon who isn't crippled by Thundurus, and can 2HKO it in return. The real question seems to be if those extra advantages Mane has over Raikou are worth the Mega slot.
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On #1: The Skill Swap Gallade build making the rounds courtesy of Mega Sableye beats both Clefable and Quagsire.The advantages aren't huge, but they do exist.
#1:/
252 Atk Mega Gallade Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 138-163 (35 - 41.3%) -- 75% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 210-247 (53.2 - 62.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 187-222 (47.4 - 56.3%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 310-366 (78.6 - 92.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Unaware Clefable can switch in on Gallade constantly throughout the match, while it cannot at all with Medicham. Gallade can't SD to overcome this, because of the nature of unaware. Quagsire is a similar case, but is more likely to be able to be killed by Gallade.
#2://
Random assortment of mons, but you should get the jist. Some mons, like the above, outspeed Gallade (and Medicham) and OHKO. Medicham is useful for having what is basically an Extreme Speed that is 1/2 normal-type and 1/2 steel type. It's able to revenge kill stuff like Altaria at +1 speed whereas Gallade just dies.
#3:/ Wherever initial power > eventual power
You may find yourself in the following situation: you have a Gallade/Medicham at 20% and are facing a Bronzong at 70%. You lose if you don't kill it, as its Gyro Ball is obviously going to annihilate you. In this situation, Medicham >>> Gallade, as Medicham is capable of dealing this damage and thus capable of winning the game for you, while Gallade is not. Yes, Gallade can hit hard thanks to SD, but it doesn't always get this chance.
Gallade and Medicham, despite their overall similarities, have different playstyles that allow Gallade not to 100% Medicham. If you require the immediate power over the power granted by setting up (in scenarios 1 and 3), Medicham >>> Gallade, and if you want something that can break walls and revenge kill things with a base speed greater than 109 (scenario 2), medicham is still better. These scenarios are still rather limited; gallade is still clearly the better Pokemon. However, I think Medicham has enough to be considered for C+.
On #2:
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Altaria: 68-80 (23.3 - 27.4%) -- 69.7% chance to 4HKO
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Altaria: 136-160 (46.7 - 54.9%) -- 62.1% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Fake Out vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lopunny: 85-100 (31.3 - 36.9%) -- 80.1% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lopunny: 85-100 (31.3 - 36.9%) -- 80.1% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Fake Out vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 102-120 (35.6 - 41.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Greninja: 51-60 (17.8 - 20.9%) -- possible 5HKO
Mega Medicham isn't revenge killing any of the three Pokemon you mentioned even if it runs both Bullet Punch and Fake Out (which is a terrible idea, since it only leaves you walled by half the metagame). And these calcs are assuming Mega Altaria doesn't run any bulk.
Regrding #3: Bronzong was the best example you could think up? The fact is, there are just as many, if not more, relevant situations where Gallade's speed advantage matters far more than Medicham's greater initial power.
All in all, though, the real pertinent question is this: what team, if any, would you ever consider using Mega Medicham on over Mega Gallade?
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Dragonite absolutely hates the addition of new Fairy-types, like Mega Altaria and Mega Diancie, who both check it with ease. It's still a viable Pokemon without a doubt, but putting it on the same level as Mega Diancie is blasphemy. I'd say its CB set's niche as both as a revenge killer and a wallbreaker is worth B+, thus putting it on the same level as Mega Alakazam.
I agree with all of these except dragonite, IMHO dragonite got a little bit better. While outside sableye, altaria, and BP metagross (possibly), the new megas really make him somewhat more viable as a sweeper with weakness policy. Diancie doesn't like EQ, neither does metagross if he fails to OHKO with ice punch and lacks bullet punch, dragonite does get ice punch for altaria. (+3 ice punch after DD and WP) he's pretty versitile and capable of shaping to the new meta.
If you're going to depend on Dragonite's success with a Weakness Policy or anything with Weakness Policy for that matter, you're doing it wrong.
The problem isn't that it got better, which it really didn't, it's just complexly outclassed. Its ability is completely neutralized if Stealth Rocks are up, it faces a lot of competition from other Dragon Dancers like Zard X and Mega Altaria. It's really not that good outside of the CB set, so B+ is pretty good for just that.
This is complete theorymonning (theorymodding?) but at this point, the OU game is so Mega-focused that I believe Megas should have their own viability ladder.
My rationale here is that most teams not only feature a Mega, but are built around their megas. Putting a team-defining threat like M-Gallade or ZardX on the same level as mons like Clefable or Heatran who, while extremely viable, are one aspect of a team rather than its centralizing force, seems to underplay the value of Megas and goes against how OU teams nowadays are structured. The Mega slot of a team is by far its most valuable, and "opportunity cost" comes into play so much more than in the other five slots.
Case in point: Mega-Medicham obviously isn't less viable than C/C- mons like Lanturn or Zygarde. However, the sheer power of other Megas makes it largely irrelevant in this metagame. What does that say about the power of Megas in general?
If this isn't the right place to posit this idea, or if the mods have considered this already, just let me know. :)
My rationale here is that most teams not only feature a Mega, but are built around their megas. Putting a team-defining threat like M-Gallade or ZardX on the same level as mons like Clefable or Heatran who, while extremely viable, are one aspect of a team rather than its centralizing force, seems to underplay the value of Megas and goes against how OU teams nowadays are structured. The Mega slot of a team is by far its most valuable, and "opportunity cost" comes into play so much more than in the other five slots.
Case in point: Mega-Medicham obviously isn't less viable than C/C- mons like Lanturn or Zygarde. However, the sheer power of other Megas makes it largely irrelevant in this metagame. What does that say about the power of Megas in general?
If this isn't the right place to posit this idea, or if the mods have considered this already, just let me know. :)
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