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thx!, I have read their opinions...and well, I found out that many of those who voted for BL had to recognize his downsides and argue that the main reason was that he constrains team building...again, that's why I don't quite like that decision, because I myself have had to deal with pokes that do the same to my team building (rotom) but are still there, defining their respective tiers...well, anyway, I can't help thinking that smogon sometimes shows certain tendencies which are a little idiosyncratic...
If you need help preparing for these threats I can try and give you some advice. Jirachi gets walled by every bulky water type or any fire type, Lucario is frail and can't set up in the face of offensive pressure and also can have issues with bulky waters. Starmie has no bulk unless your opponent is running the support set which has much less offensive presence. Machamp hits like a train with the Choice Band set, but is extremely slow and can be revenge killed. Suicune is the toughest one listed, and every team should have an answer to it or you really are going to get wrecked. As for the other pokemon listed, Swampert isn't broken in this tier since he's prone to getting worn down and he's got a serious weakness to grass types. Rotom-Heat is honestly pretty meh in my opinion, there isn't really a role he can perform where he stands out as one of the best. Starmie is a threat, but very frail. Vapeoreon is just a wall honestly, just pack a wallbreaker like Choice Band Guts Machamp if it gives you issues.
Honestly none of these things are as bad as Weavile who has absolutely amazing speed and power(120 Attack and 125 speed) on top of great offensive typing, who also has STAB Knock Off and very solid priority in Ice Shard. Currently the only relevant non-scarfed mons that outspeed him are Crobat, Mega Sceptile, Mega Beedrill, Mega Alakazam, and Mega Aerodactyl, four of which want no part of Ice Shard. While Venomoth has solid enough typing to get off two Quiver Dance boosts since it has access to Sleep Powder and can turn almost any mon into a specially offensive wrecking ball+speed demon, making it an extraordinary support mon. Really none of those mons except for maybe Suicune can affect the tier as much as Weavile and Venomoth.
I'm not sure why they don't show the stats, but there are no sets for Zen Mode Darmanitan because it's unviable in the current metagame. Much too hard to set up, and even when you do, it's extremely slow, making it incredibly easy to revenge kill.
I'm not sure why they don't show the stats, but there are no sets for Zen Mode Darmanitan because it's unviable in the current metagame. Much too hard to set up, and even when you do, it's extremely slow, making it incredibly easy to revenge kill.
It has to. Both use completely different attacking stats. I mean, you can run mixed I guess, but Darmanitan's frailty means that it tends to die before it can transform. Not to mention the fact that the other Darmanitan sets are just straight-up better.
It has to. Both use completely different attacking stats. I mean, you can run mixed I guess, but Darmanitan's frailty means that it tends to die before it can transform. Not to mention the fact that the other Darmanitan sets are just straight-up better.
I really can't stress enough how bad / outclassed this thing is... but I'm not going to stop you from using it lol. Just know it will not be receiving an analysis due to how bad it is.
iirc drought was banned at the same time as drizzle, and it was mostly because drought meant the meta ended up shifting towards sun offense in general (uu had basically all the guys from OU sun last gen, with the exception of Venusaur).
It has really good defenses and would possibly be even a good pokemon if you didn't have to be at half health for it to activate.
Firstly there's the problem of even getting there - darm isn't exactly bulky, and has a tendency to straight up die when it takes a hit.
Suppose you reliably managed to get to half health - idk with belly drum or w/e. The problem arises that you're now at half health - those defensive stats might as well be halved because that is as healthy as you can ever be when you have them.
Drought was banned because the ease with which it enabled hyper offensive sun teams to thrive - especially with threats such as darm, every relevant chlorophyll mon except venusaur, houndoom and - at the time - victini in the tier. This put a massive strain on teambuilding for both offensive builds (which would get easily outsped by the chlorophyll users) and defensive builds (which would get nuked down by the powerful sun attacks of the fire types). A very similar reasoning can apply to drizzle.
If you need help preparing for these threats I can try and give you some advice. Jirachi gets walled by every bulky water type or any fire type, Lucario is frail and can't set up in the face of offensive pressure and also can have issues with bulky waters. Starmie has no bulk unless your opponent is running the support set which has much less offensive presence. Machamp hits like a train with the Choice Band set, but is extremely slow and can be revenge killed. Suicune is the toughest one listed, and every team should have an answer to it or you really are going to get wrecked. As for the other pokemon listed, Swampert isn't broken in this tier since he's prone to getting worn down and he's got a serious weakness to grass types. Rotom-Heat is honestly pretty meh in my opinion, there isn't really a role he can perform where he stands out as one of the best. Starmie is a threat, but very frail. Vapeoreon is just a wall honestly, just pack a wallbreaker like Choice Band Guts Machamp if it gives you issues.
Honestly none of these things are as bad as Weavile who has absolutely amazing speed and power(120 Attack and 125 speed) on top of great offensive typing, who also has STAB Knock Off and very solid priority in Ice Shard. Currently the only relevant non-scarfed mons that outspeed him are Crobat, Mega Sceptile, Mega Beedrill, Mega Alakazam, and Mega Aerodactyl, four of which want no part of Ice Shard. While Venomoth has solid enough typing to get off two Quiver Dance boosts since it has access to Sleep Powder and can turn almost any mon into a specially offensive wrecking ball+speed demon, making it an extraordinary support mon. Really none of those mons except for maybe Suicune can affect the tier as much as Weavile and Venomoth.
...
Well although this sound based on broad experience, yet I still feel that it's focused only on some specific points so that, at the end, the official policy of smogon is justified. Well, Jirachi can pack thunder punch (with higher paralisys chance) so, not ALL sets gets easily walled (that's something jirachi and rotom have in their favour: they can play in different ways and exploit the surprise factor). Starmie has no bulk (just as weavile, the point is that ALL mons should have exploitable weaknesses), but it has broad typing coverage and utility (rapid spin), so, not doing what weavile does better than how he does it doesn't mean is worse, because it has other functions. Then Machamp might not be so easy to revenge kill, in case it is packing substitute+dinamic punch; yeah! I myself usually feel pity for some opponents when they just keep getting stucked in confusion. well, to sumarize, I still can't accept that weavile is better than the aforementioned neither that he is so difficult to stop. Perhaps it is just that smogon dislike the kind of playing involved in countering it...
Drought was banned because the ease with which it enabled hyper offensive sun teams to thrive - especially with threats such as darm, every relevant chlorophyll mon except venusaur, houndoom and - at the time - victini in the tier. This put a massive strain on teambuilding for both offensive builds (which would get easily outsped by the chlorophyll users) and defensive builds (which would get nuked down by the powerful sun attacks of the fire types). A very similar reasoning can apply to drizzle.
Thanks for your answer. Now, I was searching around forums for a successful sun uu team but I couldn't find one (possibly because thay xy uu stage was so short or something else idk). Does someone have a sample drought team that they had once used to good success? Or maybe just a sample drought team?
...
Well although this sound based on broad experience, yet I still feel that it's focused only on some specific points so that, at the end, the official policy of smogon is justified. Well, Jirachi can pack thunder punch (with higher paralisys chance) so, not ALL sets gets easily walled (that's something jirachi and rotom have in their favour: they can play in different ways and exploit the surprise factor). Starmie has no bulk (just as weavile, the point is that ALL mons should have exploitable weaknesses), but it has broad typing coverage and utility (rapid spin), so, not doing what weavile does better than how he does it doesn't mean is worse, because it has other functions. Then Machamp might not be so easy to revenge kill, in case it is packing substitute+dinamic punch; yeah! I myself usually feel pity for some opponents when they just keep getting stucked in confusion. well, to sumarize, I still can't accept that weavile is better than the aforementioned neither that he is so difficult to stop. Perhaps it is just that smogon dislike the kind of playing involved in countering it...
Well to answer your points individually:
-Jirachi doesn't typically want to run Thunder Punch due to the fact that it means it has to sacrifice a move and still get walled to hell and back by Swampert, who's pretty much the best switch in to Jirachi, honestly you'd be better off Tricking Choice Scarves at bulky waters since it cripples pretty much all of them. You can claim that versatility breaks Jirachi, but every Jirachi set has pretty much the same checks and counters while sets built to get around only a handful of them have to sacrifice something in its set that it tends to want more than a little bit of coverage.
-As for Starmie and Weavile, you're right that you can't really compare the two at all because Weavile simply has much better tools to operate in this tier than Starmie does. Yeah Starmie has Rapid Spin, but that hardly covers for its weakness to Sucker Punch which is the most common priority in UU(which Weavile resists), doesn't have access to its own priority(which Weavile has and is boosted by STAB), and Starmie doesn't have any boosting moves(while Weavile can take his already insane attack stat even higher with Swords Dance). Weavile is a boosting sweeper on an insane speed tier with far better offensive STAB to make him a much bigger threat in UU overall than pretty much everything you complained about. I could go into it more, but I really don't feel like making this post longer than it already is going to be.
-Rotom-Heat's utility is limited imo, you're either choiced or bulky. The scarf set is slow for a scarfed mon, the specs set leaves you open to revenge killing, and the bulky set is honestly not incredibly bulky. A very solid mon, but very very far from tier defining or broken.
-Sub Dynamic Punch isn't Machamp's best set honestly, its leaves itself entirely vulnerable to Crobat, who is pretty much the best and most common support mon right now. I'd suggest trying the Choice Band Guts set, its an amazing wallbreaker that can soak up status for the rest of the team. I'll leave the set I've been playing around with lately below in a little hidden box if you want to take it for a spin because I think that it'll really help you.
By the way if you're going to complain about mons like the ones you listed, but will try and call smogon out by saying, "Perhaps it is just that smogon dislike the kind of playing involved in countering it..." you're a massive hypocrite. A lot of the mons you listed aren't in any way broken and could be played around with half-decent teambuilding, you're not in a position to make comments like that if you think Rotom-Heat and Vaporeon are broken.
On that note, you do understand this is the tier where everything gets a second chance, right? Everything that goes to BL will get retested and mons like Hydreigon, Zygarde, Haxorus, Mega Alakazam, and Mega Houndoom have dropped back into the tier and operated fine already. So Weavile does have a chance to come back.
Anyway that's the last I'm gonna say about this, use this Machamp set since it takes out a serious chunk of the mons you feel are broken.
Fixies & Ferraris (Machamp) @ Choice Band
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Knock Off
- Heavy Slam
- Earthquake
This guy is my favorite thing for Suicune, EV'd specifically to outspeed and 2HKO your standard set with max physical bulk. You could change the speed to 176 speed EVs to outspeed and bop Florges with Heavy Slam, or just go max HP, but if you're having the trouble with bulky waters that you say you do then max speed would be your go to answer to take Suicune out with minimum hassle. Just for reference here:
Swampert:
252+ Atk Choice Band Machamp Close Combat vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Swampert: 249-294 (62 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Vaporeon with max physical bulk:
252+ Atk Choice Band Machamp Close Combat vs. 240 HP / 252+ Def Swampert: 249-294 (62 - 73.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Suicune:
252+ Atk Choice Band Machamp Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 211-250 (52.2 - 61.8%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Defensive Rotom-Heat:
252+ Atk Choice Band Machamp Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-H: 222-262 (73 - 86.1%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Just a quick change to make your Machamp set better and you're already past 4 of the 8 mons that gave you trouble! Because even if they burn you with Scald or Will-o-Wisp as you switch in all they do is make you hit even harder because of Guts. This guy is seriously way better than Sub Dynamic Punch.
UU is pretty much done atm. Altaria and Diancie got booted, but will probably be retested down the road. The meta is pretty stable right now for the most part. Jumping in now is a good time, but keep in mind theres going to be another tier shift in January, so we could get or lose mons, but the way the council has UU set up, its really tough for a broken mon or strategy to prevail too long.
UU is pretty much done atm. Altaria and Diancie got booted, but will probably be retested down the road. The meta is pretty stable right now for the most part. Jumping in now is a good time, but keep in mind theres going to be another tier shift in January, so we could get or lose mons, but the way the council has UU set up, its really tough for a broken mon or strategy to prevail too long.
My question is a mechanics one, what are confusion mechanics, how do they work? I always assumed it was a 50 50 to hit yourself in confusion or carry out a successful attack but now that I think about it it can't really be a 50 50 because you also have a chance to snap out of confusion.
My question is a mechanics one, what are confusion mechanics, how do they work? I always assumed it was a 50 50 to hit yourself in confusion or carry out a successful attack but now that I think about it it can't really be a 50 50 because you also have a chance to snap out of confusion.
Are we going to change the UU Tiering System / Voting Records thread back to normal at some point? It still says things like:
"The King UU Ban List
Currently Testing: King UU
Already Tested | Result
King UU | BL
King UU | UU
King UU | BL
King UU | BL
King UU | UU
King UU | BL
King UU | BL
King UU | BL
King UU | BL
King UU | BL
King UU | UU
King UU | BL
King UU | BL
King UU | BL
King UU | BL
King UU | BL
King UU | BL
King UU | UU
King UU | BL
King UU | BL
King UU | BL
*BL with a minority vote.
Not Tested Yet
Listed in the projected order we will be testing them in (subject to change).
King UU
King UU
---
King UU
King UU
King UU
Anything above the King UU cutoff.
The move King UU, which is also banned in OU."
...and unless I'm mistaken, it didn't originally say that.
