Ladder Balanced Hackmons

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
The latis are pursuit weak, but obviously don't check megazard Y. Obviously. Seriously, you made yourself sound really smart right there.
yes. and obviously latias is completely impossible to break without pursuit/hazards/status correct? and mega charizard is also 99% of ou right? incredible. i never knew someone as smart as you existed in this world. especially when you try to use sarcasm to put people down, when not only am i a inferior bh player then you(top 10 vs...idk...lower 100 i'm assuming?), im also apparently not good at seeing the difference between a latios and a sturdy shedinja. im sorry and i truely hope you can forgive me for that crutial error. im also no good with shedinja, and even though its on every one of my 100/~3 win record teams, i also obviously dont have enough expirience to know that shedinja is a risky counter.

good grief...I might as well just stop being nice to people.

on a more serious note. a counter that can die to 1 attack or even on switchin is terribad. okay. shedinja can be a counter, but its by far the WORST out there.

You do realize that the definition of a counter is a Pokemon that can switch into anyone of another Pokemon's moves with impunity and do something back?
yes. and since shedinja is a counter that can be killed BEFORE IT EVEN SWITCHES IN.and is COMPLETELY DESTROYED by simply switching out on a obvious shed switchin and pursuiting it, its more considered a check then a counter. and as i previously mentioned above, a risky one at that.

don't question someone who has constantly maintained a top 10 ranking in bh, especially on a topic they are well known for being one of the best in.(even though i havent laddered in a bit and dropped to 19 ;~;)
 
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Lcass, I don't even need to quote you. You keep on repeatedly bringing up how "your such a skilled player" and repeatedly use that as a reason for your arguments. Can you try to be less arrogant and not insult people as often?

good grief...I might as well just stop being nice to people.
You haven't been doing that either, and your most recent posts are filled with aggression and you shouting at people.

If you really think your that good, then good for yourself. No need to act like your better than others, because your not.

We should start running ego checks around here.
 
To be honest both of them were acting very rude, but at least lcass is right about being a top BH player, this isn't really arguable.
Is Lcass a good player? Sure. I'm not discrediting anyone here. Is this behaviour acceptable? No. I don't see how that can be denied. I only picked on Lcass because it isn't that one post which was bad, but he has been consistently rude lately.
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
when i mention my skill. its usually to proove that "i know my stuff" if you actually read my post, you would see that i was saying "ive used shedinja enough that i know what im talking about" my skill as a bh player isnt even all that adept in the current meta (my peaking moments being before the ev limit hit us) however, i never used my "skill" as an argument, as much as ive used it as a "gauge of my knowledge of the meta game and how it works". sometimes i do end up gloating and i apologise, but in this instance i was doing it to prove a point. plus he was blatantly calling me an idiot for my past statement, and i have every right to prove him wrong in his assumptions.

i dont beat my chest because "im higher then someone" i beat it because i show people that "im not just some nobody making random claims with no evidence to back me up" usually skilled players play the metagame more, therefore its safe to say, if someone is skilled enough to be high ladder with a dramatic win loss ratio difference, then its also safe to assume this person knows what they are talking about when they talk about a critical part of the metagame. i WAS using hard evidence on top of that too. my aggression isn't because i think im better then all of you, i can list a bunch of people who i know are better pokemon players in general then i am.

im sorry if i sound super arrogant. but as i said, if you insult my intelligence of this meta, meanwhile ive been a top player in said meta since the beginning (of 6th gen), and have used all playstyles effectively, i feel like i at least have a right to tell people this.

edit: also im sorry eevee for this post, but i felt like i needed to at least explain my reasonings.

edit 2: also yeah, i do know about my current agression problems...ive actually mentioned it in the stabmons thread, and its why i stopped talking there. idk whats caused this. and im trying to stop. trust me.
 
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As far as I'm concerned, this discussion should have been taken to PMs 8 posts ago. This is a thread for Balanced Hackmons, so let's keep it that way please.

On a different note, I'm brainstorming different sets that can effectively stop Assist Primal Groudon. Obviously Fur Coat is what most people choose to run, but it's rather niche. If anyone wants to pitch in and reply to this with unique/versatile options to stop this powerhouse it would be great.

Sets I've come up with (Keep in mind I'm very aware that some of these are rubbish, just putting them out there.):

Grass Arceus:
Arceus-Steel @ Meadow Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 128 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 124 Spe
Modest Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Steam Eruption
- Quiver Dance
- Recover

The idea here was obviously to use a bulky grass type to absorb Thousand Arrows and turn around a kill. The strongest bulky grass/bug type likes Venusaur and Scizor-Mega had neutral resistances to Thousand Arrows, so they wouldn't work. I couldn't accept the fact that the bulkiest Pokemon that resisted Thousand Arrows was Gogoat, so I decided to use Arceus. With a decent amount of bulk, it's able to take quite a few hits from Groudon before going down, and a Steam Eruption can effectively OHKO it. The Leaf Storm is just nice stab coverage that can actually be really useful for taking down Kyogres. I had an alternate Physical version with Leaf Blade that killed Kyogre more easily, but ultimately it diverged from the true intent of a Groudon stomper so I stuck with Special. Obviously this set is really weak to Mega-Ray, so it's imperative that something like Regirock is taken to handle that.

Fur Coat Primal Kyogre:
Kyogre-Primal @ Leftovers
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Ice Beam
- Steam Eruption
- Quiver Dance
- Milk Drink

I know I kinda bashed Fur Coats, but this one can actually be pretty useful. Not only does it stop Groudon and can easily OHKO it, it can also survive multiple hits from Mega Ray, and then turn around a kill. Granted, Boomburst can be an issue, but good predictions can avoid switching into it. It can take one, and Ice Beam is a guaranteed OHKO. Here are some numbers:

252 Atk Aerilate Rayquaza Fake Out vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Fur Coat Kyogre: 59-70 (14.6 - 17.3%) -- possible 6HKO
252 Atk Aerilate Rayquaza Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Fur Coat Kyogre: 118-140 (29.2 - 34.6%) -- 7.6% chance to 3HKO
4 SpA Aerilate Rayquaza Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre: 219-258 (54.2 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rayquaza: 604-712 (172 - 202.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Anyways, if you have anything else that's creative I think everyone in the BH community would welcome it.
 

xJownage

Even pendulums swing both ways
well thanks for saying I suck. I don't care to show i'm a good BH player because its irrelevant, so w/e. Sure, sheddy is shaky counter, but for imposter breaking it works (remember, its your set and you decide whether you are shedinja weak or not). Either way, I was brainstorming off of the top of my head and just put the first and most obvious thing out there. I apologize for my part in this as well.

I have found offensive Fur Coat ogre rather lacking, mainly because boomburst mega ray is everywhere and QD ogre would rather run poison heal and not worry about a recovery move (so it can run spore in its fourth slot, making it easier to set up and w/e). Having to run milk drink really sucks. I have played around with more defensive spreads and still, no luck.

These assist thousand arrows teams have very few counters, them being fur coat and grassceus (great viability too). At least fur coat counters most -ates provided the mon has good special defense. Regardless, I think these teams are broken and unhealthy for the meta atm.

After playing more with roost + entrainment mega ray, I can attest to its extreme effectiveness on the mid-upper ladder and in tournaments. Every chansey or slowbro or whatever bulky af fur coat mon switches into this thing, but all of them invest in special defense, and after a quick entrainment they usually get forced out (or have to face not having that mon left on their team to counter another physical attacker). Those switches are great for mega ray to put a quick dent in something. Not nearly as effective against more inexperienced but adept players, since 90-ish% of them are running sheddy and a mega ray counter.

I am thinking that entrainment cannot be summoned by assist, and if so, one of these teams could easily run this to get past fur coat counters. Prepare your grassceus' guys
 
@Wereofel: Why not Seed Flare, Giga Drain, or Energy Ball? Leaf Storm's drops seem like they'd be detrimental to a non-Contrary that's meant to stay in awhile. Q. Dance alleviates it some, but it still pretty much undoes your set-up. Or, alternatively, Judgement since you have Meadow Plate anyway.

Also, have you considered Shaymin-Land? It's a full 120 BST drop from Arceus, 20 in all stats, but access to both item and ability slot might make up for it. Fur Coat Landmin actually got theorymonned a bit when 1k Arrows was introduced.
 
Yeah I was thinking about Shaymin, but the 600 BST kinda scared me off. I don't know what ability could be put into it to honestly make that much of a difference. As well, I think Fur Coat Shaymin is just a waste, because a Fur Coat Slowbro-Mega or Giratina would have far more versatility in my opinion.
 

Lcass4919

The Xatu Warrior
well thanks for saying I suck.
just want to say that i actually never said you sucked. or even really implied it. the 10 vs 100 thing was kinda my agression speaking, so i apologize for that. however being ~100 isnt even bad. however, i digress and i will actually talk politely for once in this thread. lool. and sorry if i made it seem like i was saying "you suck" or if i even said that.

I have found offensive Fur Coat ogre rather lacking, mainly because boomburst mega ray is everywhere and QD ogre would rather run poison heal and not worry about a recovery move (so it can run spore in its fourth slot, making it easier to set up and w/e). Having to run milk drink really sucks. I have played around with more defensive spreads and still, no luck.
fur coat is actually a really terrible ability in general right now, as all it actually does in the current metagame is allow you to run protean physically, and stop groudon. i dont see all the hype about it tbh because the only relevant thing in the teir this stops, is groudon(mm2 is pretty uncommon atm). which i guess is a valid reason, but idk. not really justified to use enless you run physical protean(mm2x is super hard to stop right now) or at least, from what ive seen so far.

After playing more with roost + entrainment mega ray, I can attest to its extreme effectiveness on the mid-upper ladder and in tournaments. Every chansey or slowbro or whatever bulky af fur coat mon switches into this thing, but all of them invest in special defense, and after a quick entrainment they usually get forced out (or have to face not having that mon left on their team to counter another physical attacker). Those switches are great for mega ray to put a quick dent in something. Not nearly as effective against more inexperienced but adept players, since 90-ish% of them are running sheddy and a mega ray counter.
honestly, ive lacked a fourth move for mega rayquaza, and entrain sounds like a great option tbh(even without roost) brilliant idea. of course, it doesnt stop the 2 best ray counters (regiregen and regensteel as both run sacred fire) but it helps stop the others, and even then, it will be a huge annoyance for them due to regenblocking them forcing them to dryswitch or die, and both are ran by me and flint only in the entire teir anyways, and it also stops basically 99% of rays checks.


Yeah I was thinking about Shaymin, but the 600 BST kinda scared me off. I don't know what ability could be put into it to honestly make that much of a difference. As well, I think Fur Coat Shaymin is just a waste, because a Fur Coat Slowbro-Mega or Giratina would have far more versatility in my opinion.
fur coat shaymin has the advantage of being immune to spore if that fancies people. however, grass types in general are kinda bad due to rayquaza being such a scary hit and runner.
 

xJownage

Even pendulums swing both ways
Fur coat is underwhelming as a whole in this meta outside of chansey (which is pretty good, I have to say - Meet entrainment mega ray (i rhyme)).
 
As far as I'm concerned, this discussion should have been taken to PMs 8 posts ago. This is a thread for Balanced Hackmons, so let's keep it that way please.

On a different note, I'm brainstorming different sets that can effectively stop Assist Primal Groudon. Obviously Fur Coat is what most people choose to run, but it's rather niche. If anyone wants to pitch in and reply to this with unique/versatile options to stop this powerhouse it would be great.

Sets I've come up with (Keep in mind I'm very aware that some of these are rubbish, just putting them out there.):

Grass Arceus:
Arceus-Steel @ Meadow Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 128 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 124 Spe
Modest Nature
- Leaf Storm
- Steam Eruption
- Quiver Dance
- Recover

The idea here was obviously to use a bulky grass type to absorb Thousand Arrows and turn around a kill. The strongest bulky grass/bug type likes Venusaur and Scizor-Mega had neutral resistances to Thousand Arrows, so they wouldn't work. I couldn't accept the fact that the bulkiest Pokemon that resisted Thousand Arrows was Gogoat, so I decided to use Arceus. With a decent amount of bulk, it's able to take quite a few hits from Groudon before going down, and a Steam Eruption can effectively OHKO it. The Leaf Storm is just nice stab coverage that can actually be really useful for taking down Kyogres. I had an alternate Physical version with Leaf Blade that killed Kyogre more easily, but ultimately it diverged from the true intent of a Groudon stomper so I stuck with Special. Obviously this set is really weak to Mega-Ray, so it's imperative that something like Regirock is taken to handle that.

Fur Coat Primal Kyogre:
Kyogre-Primal @ Leftovers
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Ice Beam
- Steam Eruption
- Quiver Dance
- Milk Drink

I know I kinda bashed Fur Coats, but this one can actually be pretty useful. Not only does it stop Groudon and can easily OHKO it, it can also survive multiple hits from Mega Ray, and then turn around a kill. Granted, Boomburst can be an issue, but good predictions can avoid switching into it. It can take one, and Ice Beam is a guaranteed OHKO. Here are some numbers:

252 Atk Aerilate Rayquaza Fake Out vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Fur Coat Kyogre: 59-70 (14.6 - 17.3%) -- possible 6HKO
252 Atk Aerilate Rayquaza Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Fur Coat Kyogre: 118-140 (29.2 - 34.6%) -- 7.6% chance to 3HKO
4 SpA Aerilate Rayquaza Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre: 219-258 (54.2 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rayquaza: 604-712 (172 - 202.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Anyways, if you have anything else that's creative I think everyone in the BH community would welcome it.
Sadly Grassceus is probably the best counter for Assist Groudon. Personally i would make that set more specially defensive so you can check PH Ogre effectively. Also Quiver Dance probably wouldn't be super useful on a wall. Also since running Meadow Plate might as well run Judgement. Unfortunately this set Does not wall other Primal Groudons, limiting its effectivness. Therefore meet the absolute Primal Groudon counter:
tangrowth.jpg
Tangrowth @ Leftovers
Ability: Primordial Sea
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip
- Waterfall
- Heal Order

Sadly Primordial Sea Tangrowth is the best Primal Groudon counter -_-. Physical Defensive Giratina is a shakey counter. It can take up to 46% damage from Banded Groudon's Thousand Arrows, so Giratina relys on PH/Lefties recovery and being at 100% every time Groudon comes in. However Tangrowth:

252+ Atk Choice Band Groudon Land's Wrath vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 96-113 (23.8 - 28%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

This set runs Power Whip for Stab (It probably doesn't need it though) Waterfall to kill Groudon, Leech Seed to stall out Water Absorb Groudons, and recovery.

Primordial Sea provides Mold Breaker immune Fire Immunity. While Fur Coat Giratina may be more versatile then Tangrowth, its only a matter of time before Groudons start packing answers to Fur Coat. Therefore Tangrowth is the most reliable counter. Does this make it worth a spot in your team? Probably not. It walls almost no other common sets, except for some Purely Physical Proteans. Chances are you are better off with a shakey counter then Tangrowth. Sadly that is the current state of the meta. There are few reliable counters to the top Pokemon, and Primal Groudon is no exception.
 
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Talking about bulky grass types;



252+ Atk Choice Band Groudon Land's Wrath vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fur Coat Tangela: 33-40 (9.9 - 12%) -- possible 9HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Groudon Land's Wrath vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 67-80 (20.1 - 24%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Tinted Lens Groudon Land's Wrath vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Tangela: 134-160 (40.2 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Sticky hold Tangela and make those assist groudons cry forever.
There, go home everyone.

Funny bonus:
252+ Atk Choice Band Groudon V-create vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Fur Coat Tangela: 271-319 (81.3 - 95.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
Sadly Grassceus is probably the best counter for Assist Groudon. Personally i would make that set more specially defensive so you can check PH Ogre effectively. Also Quiver Dance probably wouldn't be super useful on a wall. Also since running Meadow Plate might as well run Judgement. Unfortunately this set Does not wall other Primal Groudons, limiting its effectivness. Therefore meet the absolute Primal Groudon counter:
View attachment 33411
Tangrowth @ Leftovers
Ability: Primordial Sea
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Leech Seed
- Power Whip
- Waterfall
- Heal Order

Sadly Primordial Sea Tangrowth is the best Primal Groudon counter -_-. Physical Defensive Giratina is a shakey counter. It can take up to 46% damage from Banded Groudon's Thousand Arrows, so Giratina relys on PH/Lefties recovery and being at 100% every time Groudon comes in. However Tangrowth:

252+ Atk Choice Band Groudon Land's Wrath vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 96-113 (23.8 - 28%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

This set runs Power Whip for Stab (It probably doesn't need it though) Waterfall to kill Groudon, Leech Seed to stall out Water Absorb Groudons, and recovery.

Nicely walled. Primordial Sea provides Mold Breaker immune Fire Immunity. While Fur Coat Giratina may be more versatile then Tangrowth, its only a matter of time before Groudons start packing answers to Fur Coat. Therefore Tangrowth is the most reliable counter. Does this make it worth a spot in your team? Probably not. It walls almost no other common sets, except for some Purely Physical Proteans. Chances are you are better off with a shakey counter then Tangrowth. Sadly that is the current state of the meta. There are few reliable counters to the top Pokemon, and Primal Groudon is no exception.
252+ Atk Choice Band Groudon Land's Wrath vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Giratina: 98-116 (19.4 - 23%) -- possible 5HKO

Where did you get 46% from? Fur Coat Giratina is an excellent groudon counter, but it has little kill potential.
 
So I got to #1 on the ladder with this team (even though I didn't bother to make sure ev's are perfect) so I feel like I can actually talk about why Assist needs some sort of ban.

Rayquaza-Mega @ Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpA
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Chatter
- King's Shield
- Dragon Tail
- Mirror Move

Arceus @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Modest Nature
- Nature Power
- Switcheroo
- Destiny Bond
- Chatter

Chansey (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP
- Transform
- Thousand Arrows
- Destiny Bond
- Dragon Tail

Groudon-Primal @ Choice Band
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 236 HP / 252 Atk / 20 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Assist
- Focus Punch
- Dragon Tail
- Switcheroo

Groudon-Primal @ Choice Band
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 132 HP / 252 Atk / 96 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Assist
- Focus Punch
- Dragon Tail
- Switcheroo

Groudon-Primal @ Choice Band
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Assist
- Focus Punch
- Dragon Tail
- Switcheroo


Shoutout to whoever gave me the idea for Rayquaza + Arceus in the creative movesets thread


Simply put almost everything that hopes to switch in is maimed by Switcheroo. You can pretty much keep at least one CB prankster Groudon in the back while forcing your opponent to commit their "checks" to deal with the other Groudon. Chansey works wonders with assist teams and let's them have a backbone check to most threatening sweepers.
 
Fur Coat Primal Kyogre:
Kyogre-Primal @ Leftovers
Ability: Fur Coat
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Ice Beam
- Steam Eruption
- Quiver Dance
- Milk Drink

I know I kinda bashed Fur Coats, but this one can actually be pretty useful. Not only does it stop Groudon and can easily OHKO it, it can also survive multiple hits from Mega Ray, and then turn around a kill. Granted, Boomburst can be an issue, but good predictions can avoid switching into it. It can take one, and Ice Beam is a guaranteed OHKO. Here are some numbers:

252 Atk Aerilate Rayquaza Fake Out vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Fur Coat Kyogre: 59-70 (14.6 - 17.3%) -- possible 6HKO
252 Atk Aerilate Rayquaza Extreme Speed vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Fur Coat Kyogre: 118-140 (29.2 - 34.6%) -- 7.6% chance to 3HKO
4 SpA Aerilate Rayquaza Boomburst vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre: 219-258 (54.2 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Rayquaza: 604-712 (172 - 202.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Anyways, if you have anything else that's creative I think everyone in the BH community would welcome it.
I've used fur coat ogre a lot before and was mostly dissapointed by his phisical bulk. Or lack of bulk in general. It's a good idea but i found it to be outclassed by stuff like fur coat megaRay who can use oblivion wing as a semi reliable recovery and can potentially run tail glow instead of quiver dance depending on the role you want him to perform (Ogre is kinda slow for that) or fur coat latias who has better overall bulk and power.

But fur coat sweepers are in my opinion one of the funniest things to use. I used fur coat megagengar before the ev change because you could run fast set up like tail glow without worrying about imposters.

Also, tangthing, gourgeist and heracross mega are all bulkier than gogoat. ff heracross mega is a good answer to groudon in general because it can't be tricked and has actual offensive power. Fighting + dark + ground + fire resist also makes it a good answer to a lot of mmx's set. A refrigirate set could also be nice since chatter ray is now on a lot of assist teams.

EDIT: Forgot that thing i wanted to talk about in the first place

Good counter m8 (Groudon-Primal) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 SpA
Brave Nature
- ExtremeSpeed
- sacred fire / v-create / precipice blade
- Boomburst
- Recover

Simply put, groudon brings out the dragons or the phisicly bulky mon (MegaBro) and -ate brings out the steel. Groudon can deal with both (most of the time) and is also a reliable priority user. Pixi is chosen over refrigirate to deal with mmx and Megagyarados. Used it for a bit and it's really quite the fun thing.

EDIT 2: This just popped into my mind and might be stupid but has anyone tried prankster sub + disable ? Seems like it could deal with assist teams pretty well since behind a sub you can't be tricked. Of course chatter will be a problem but then protect + disable could work, idk.
 
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Do you guys want a full-proof, 100% counter to assist pdon? If the answer is yes, then i give to you:

kek

SET 1:

Gengar-Mega @ Gengarite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: (252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Def) or (252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 def)
Nature: Timid / Jolly
-Imprison
-Thousand Arrows
-Assist
-Steam Eruption / Swords Dance / Shell Smash


SET 2:

Gengar-Mega @ Gengarite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Def
Nature: Timid
-Taunt
-Steam Eruption
-Protect
-Perish Song / Disable

NOTE: I have not had much experience with assist pdon so i apologise if i have missed something blatantly obvious :3

Set 1 is if you want a assist Pdon gone as soon and as effectively as possible. Mega-evolve when you have a free switch-in to this monster and use imprison - disabling both thousand waves and assist. And since you have mega evolved pdon is trapped and has nothing to do, then you can go for the KO with steam eruption, or if you want you can take advantage of struggling pdon and set up so with SD/SS and take on the opposition with your own thousand waves.
One obvious downside though is that it counters pdon, but cant really do much aside from that, and even if you set up base 65 attack is pretty lame.

Set 2 is probably better than the other set because it actually has use outside of countering pdon, and its unlikely they are going to predict the prankster taunt and go for regular thousand waves. Simply mega evolve and hit with taunt to disable assist, and then shrek pdon with steam eruption, pretty simple. Protect is essential when paired with the fourth move of your choice - perish song or disable. Perish song is the one id pick but disable is also useful in some situations.

Also while im at it, can someone tell me about this 'entrainment + roost mray' deal? What ability does it use? And why would it be useful in the furst place? I must know plz
 
Im not sure if this is the place i should be asking this, but what the hey, ill ask anyway. (rhyme unintended)

Deoxys-S @ Kings Rock
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def
-Beat Up
-Sacred Fire
-Diamond Storm
-Stealth Rock

I'm not sure if Deoxys-S is the optimum Pokemon to abuse this moveset. Can you guys think of any better contenders? I just picked deoxys-s coz its the fastest and has okay bulk. Also could you suggest an alternative to diamond storm since i, like, never use it? I'm keeping SR btw.

EDIT: I'm just curious, what is the chance of flinching the opponent with serene grace + kings rock + beat up?
 
Im not sure if this is the place i should be asking this, but what the hey, ill ask anyway. (rhyme unintended)

Deoxys-S @ Kings Rock
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 Def
-Beat Up
-Sacred Fire
-Diamond Storm
-Stealth Rock

I'm not sure if Deoxys-S is the optimum Pokemon to abuse this moveset. Can you guys think of any better contenders? I just picked deoxys-s coz its the fastest and has okay bulk. Also could you suggest an alternative to diamond storm since i, like, never use it? I'm keeping SR btw.

EDIT: I'm just curious, what is the chance of flinching the opponent with serene grace + kings rock + beat up?
That would be 1-(0.8)^6=0.737856, around 75% chance to flinch
Deoxys-S sounds good, it really depends what the rest of your team is.
Discharge could be good.

EDIT: If the target is paralised, he would have about 18% chance to attack every turn (if my maths don't suck that is)
 
Do you guys want a full-proof, 100% counter to assist pdon? If the answer is yes, then i give to you:

kek

SET 1:

Gengar-Mega @ Gengarite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: (252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Def) or (252 Atk / 252 Spe / 4 def)
Nature: Timid / Jolly
-Imprison
-Thousand Arrows
-Assist
-Steam Eruption / Swords Dance / Shell Smash


SET 2:

Gengar-Mega @ Gengarite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Def
Nature: Timid
-Taunt
-Steam Eruption
-Protect
-Perish Song / Disable
The first set is a little much. I like the inclusion of Gengarite for anti-Trick and Shadow Tag, and Imprison sounds useful as well. However, there's no reason to be going to such extreme lengths to counter Assist teams when other sets, like Fur Coat Mega Slowbro with Slowbronite, can do so almost as well and also have a variety of other uses. The other thing is that if one Groudon falls for this trap, others aren't just going to walk into it like sheep. The opponent will likely use Dragon Tail next or bring in a Gale Wings Chatter thing.

The second one is a little bit better because of Shadow Tag + Perish Song, but it lacks Recover and Encore, two of the best moves to use on such a set, purely because it is forced to run Taunt + Steam Eruption to deal with Assist.

I like the creativity, though, and I can see how these would be extremely useful in certain situations; they just won't do much outside of those situations, unfortunately.

Also while im at it, can someone tell me about this 'entrainment + roost mray' deal? What ability does it use? And why would it be useful in the furst place? I must know plz
Entrainment can be run on Mega Rayquaza with Aerilate to help it out against some of its most common switch-ins, such as Sturdy Shedinja, Fur Coat Chansey, and Soundproof anything. I don't know where you got Roost from, though.

Anyway, the real reason for making this post was to discuss something I've had a lot of success with recently, Choice Scarf Primal Groudon.

Groudon-Primal @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Tinted Lens / Desolate Land
EVs: 128 HP / 252 Atk / 148 Spe
Naive Nature
- V-create
- Bolt Strike
- Switcheroo
- Magma Storm / filler

Most people run Band on Groudon for sheer power. However, I've found Scarf incredibly useful so that one can outspeed a variety of Groudon's usual checks while still spamming really powerful attacks.

The moves and ability here are mostly unimportant; I started out using Desolate Land, which was pretty useful as well, but switched to Tinted Lens because Giratina always switched in. The EVs and nature, however, are the minimum required to outspeed and OHKO Mega Mewtwo Y with V-create (which I have done many times before; people never see the Scarf coming).

You all already know that Tinted Lens V-create can pretty much 2HKO the entire metagame. It's worth noting that in this case, you can outspeed and use V-create to KO important special attackers. A good example, besides the obvious, is Mega Rayquaza; after using Fake Out, it tends to go for the OHKO with Boomburst, but will find itself destroyed by V-create instead.

Also, here's why I have Bolt Strike:
252 Atk Primal Groudon Bolt Strike vs. 128 HP / 0 Def Primal Kyogre: 396-468 (106.1 - 125.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
If PH Kyogre makes it to +1 Speed, you speed tie provided it's running Adrian's set. In this case, Desolate Land could be useful.

Switcheroo is obnoxious in general. No remotely stallish team enjoys having one of its Pokemon tricked a Choice Scarf. And since Giratina is a really common switch-in, it commonly gets crippled by this.

Magma Storm is filler; in this case, it helps to kill Shedinja, dent special attackers, and trap annoying stuff. I mostly used it because I wanted to have this Pokemon walled by Flash Fire Mega Steelix, which seemed like a good idea at the time but has proven pretty useless. Fur Coat Primal Groudon sounds like a good wall for this, especially since I chose not to run Thousand Arrows.

Since this is my thousandth post, it's time to mass tag people that I like (because that's the obvious thing to do, right?)

First of all, thanks to Adrian Marin, E4 Flint, TheCommadore, Lcass4919, Keep it Playful, Nike of Samothrace, Kl4ng, -Talent-, asterat and others for helping me improve at BH when I was terrible, and letting me follow them around.

Special thanks to PlatypusVenom for introducing me to 1v1.

Thanks to all my Mewtwo Maniacs teammates, even though I was bad.

Finally, thanks to the Other Metagames forum staff / room owners (Eevee General, Hollywood, The Immortal, at the time Arcticblast) for being really helpful and giving me a chance as a staff member.

People from Other Metas (in no order): Piccolo Daimao Kit Kasai AWailOfATail Ranger Dave imas234 manu 11 Heisenerg aesf BetaHousing Pikachuun Loyd I_Suck_At_Pokermon motherlove Peef Rimgar Werefofel unfixable Ransei regirock Rumplestiltskin w0rd Deathly ♛The King Kingslayer2779 Snaquaza TheBurgerKing99 blarghlfarghl Flying Types Rule! hexenjaeger Whatwasthatnoise gemaddog7 insanelegend NOCturnal Hunter Mamp

People not from Other Metas (there aren't many): Bean QueBien BPC

Sorry if I forgot anybody :(
I did this in a hurry
Just let me know and I'll add you in!
 
252+ Atk Choice Band Groudon Land's Wrath vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Giratina: 98-116 (19.4 - 23%) -- possible 5HKO

Where did you get 46% from? Fur Coat Giratina is an excellent groudon counter, but it has little kill potential.
I was trying to find a Counter for all of the Groudons not just Assist Groudon. I have found Mold Breaker Banded Groudon to be an amazing wallbreaker. its not safe to assume people won't start running ways to beat Fur Coat seeing as its so common.
 

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