While it lost its main niche, magneton has a significant niche over magnezone still in that it outspeeds jolly talonflame (when scarfed) while magnezone cannot.
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Other ORAS OU Viability Ranking Thread V2 - Check Post #2500 PG. 100
- Thread starter trc
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Running double Mag is a redundancy that doesn't really aid you in any way. Double Mag isn't allowing you to trap extra targets like running Magnzeon + Gothitelle would. It only makes the weaknesses that magnezone opens up greater. The mags are both very exploitable pokemon because they run STAB's that have immunities on them while choice-locked, they aren't all that powerful due to their low base power moves + lack of coverage.
Seperior is a lot easier to play around than you would think because it is so heavily reliant on the use of Leaf Storm. Because it has to use Leaf Storm to even become a threat you can play around it by not letting Grass-weak pokemon into the field and forcing it to use one of its coverage that are really weak coming from base 75 SpA. It has a really hard time gaining momentum for itself, at least initially, in these scenarios because you are unable to use Leaf Storm. I agree that it should be B-, but I think any higher than that is overselling it.
What about getting free boosts in stall teams' face? Manaphy has to rev up and doesn't deal damage while doing so, how does this deter Serperior? Is it because of Life Orb recoil? I see the downsides of its meddling 75 SpA but I think it has the tools to make up for that in its Speed and Glare.
Edit: Thanks for the responses.
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I'm not sure if you understand the point he's trying to make. With base 75 SpA Serperior is doing jack to anything that resist it. Even at +2 some of serp's coverage moves aren't going to be OHKOing. Yeah it has a great speed tier and access to glare but that still doesn't compensate for its rather weak power that it wants to have as a wallbreaker
Manaphy thanks to Rain Dance + Hydration has absolutely nothing to fear in the face of Stall. Serperior can not say the same. There are some instances where Serp can be dealt with such as Taking a Leaf Storm, then toxicing, LO + Toxic isn't too nice to deal with. Manaphy does not have that problem.
Alomomola: B- -> C+
For the second time, I'm going to nominate Alomomola to drop a rank. Simply put, it's niche was to switch in, use it's massive base 165 HP, wish, and switch back out to heal something. While that's all fine and dandy, once Greninja left, the metagame shift was not kind to the not-evolution of Luvdisc. Greninja, as some of you mentioned, was one of the best things for Mola to switch in on unless it was carrying HP Grass, which most Greninjas didn't. However, Greninja is gone, so that's one less thing Alomomola can switch out on, but it opens up a lot of Pokémon that can render Mola useless, like these two that have been the topic of conversation to move up.
First, Serperior. As you all are well aware now, Serperior has recieved contrary, and is already S-Rank in RU in just three days. Leaf storm is just a monster, hitting for 130 damage and boosting your special attack stat by 2. Look at these Calcs: [one for Physical mola and one for special mola]
0+ SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Alomomola: 452-534 (84.6 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
0+ SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Alomomola: 276-326 (51.6 - 61%) -- 93.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
So yeah, Alomomola will be KO'ed before it can even do anything useful vs. Serperior.
Now, Raikou. Raikou has also been gaining popularity to move up recently. I'll focus on it's specs set first, then it's AV set, and finally its CM set.
Here's a specs thunderbolt:
252 SpA Choice Specs Raikou Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Alomomola: 750-884 (140.4 - 165.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Here's a specs volt switch:
252 SpA Choice Specs Raikou Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Alomomola: 584-690 (109.3 - 129.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Now, here's a specs HP Grass:
252 SpA Choice Specs Raikou Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Alomomola: 334-394 (62.5 - 73.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Adn lastly, here's the specs Extrasensory:
252 SpA Choice Specs Raikou Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Alomomola: 222-262 (41.5 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
here's all the calcs with a specially defensive mola:
252 SpA Choice Specs Raikou Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Alomomola: 462-546 (86.5 - 102.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Raikou Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Alomomola: 206-244 (38.5 - 45.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Raikou Volt Switch vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Alomomola: 360-426 (67.4 - 79.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Raikou Extrasensory vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Alomomola: 137-162 (25.6 - 30.3%) -- 0.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
not good for the Mola, right? it will mostly get OHKOd upon switching in unless it's specially defensive, which means you will have to manipulate your opponent into using HP Grass or Extrasensory.
The AV set gets walled fairly hard, so I'll skip over that.
Now, the CM set. I'm adding two other popular CM users into the fray here:
The thing about trying to send in mola onto a CM Pokémon is that if you need to heal, it's safe to assume they're at +1 already. On the switch-in to Mola, they could boost again to be at +2. Then, when you use wish, they could boost again, going to +3. Then, when you switch out, they can attack whatever you switch in. In this case, Alomomola just hurt your team by doing its job. Finally, Sceptile, Lopunny and
First, I'll touch on Lopunny. Once again, Alomomola returns as setup fodder! On the switch-in to Mola, if this is a PUpPunch Lopunny, they can Power-up Punch you on the switch-in, again when you go for wish, and then destroy whatever you're sending in to be healed. Alomomola hurt your team by trying to accomplish the only thing it's capable of doing.
Next is Sceptile. Once again, trying to switch mola in could lead to it setting up on you with substitute, or just Giga Draining when you try to wish. Look at this calc:
[Whoops, looks like the damage calculator doesn't have any ORAS megas programmed into it. great. this is Sceptile at +1. Hope it's accurate.]
Welll, it's a Garunteed 2HKO on the specially defensive Mola, and a Garunteed OHKO on the physically bulky one. Leaf storm is even worse for Mola, scoring a garunteed OHKO on mola evan at 252+ Spd.
Anything with taunt severely hinders mola forcing it to switch out, like these:
or things with shadow tag:
And rapid spinners/ defoggers get a free chance to clear away all the entry hazards you may have set:
And then there's things that can set up their own hazards on you:
OR you could just severely damage Alomolola in the two or so turns it's on the field.
There's so many more things that can take advantage of mola and put your team in a worse spot, even more than what I listed here. I won't deny that it's viable in OU, but the removal of Greninja and the introduction of Serperior wren't kind to it, and it should drop to C+.
Attachments
People know that Alomomola is passive as hell. The whole point of using it in the first place is for Wish support and Regenerator on defensive and balanced builds as a teammate more so than just a standalone thing. Showing me a calc that a Specs Raikou is KO'ing Alomomola isn't exactly proving anything when it's coming off of Specs + STAB + Super effective hit so yeah the fish will probably be dead. I can show you a calc of Life Orb Excadrill using Earthquake with an Adamant nature on Charizard-X and I think we all know how that's gonna turn out without using numbers, but no one in their right mind would say it's bad cause of one obvious calc. Half these special attackers don't even want to be throwing out there special attacks on a repetitive basis unless they know Alomomola's set because the next thing you know that attack you thought was risk free just got thrown back at you with Mirror Coat and there goes what was probably your best answer to Alomomola. Oh and then the funny part comes in where Alomomola just switches out and regains back the HP it lost. Some of these pictures didn't even make sense like Crobat cause nobody even uses that on any relevant basis in OU, so maybe if you're arguing losing momentum Latios would've been better although the pictures were really obnoxious and covered half the page. Switching out is not exactly an issue for Alomomola when it's literally spending the majority of its time switching out to pass Wishes anyways. The spreads for some of these calcs are not even right to begin with cause most Alomomolas run some sort of Special Defense investment anyways. Yeah Alomomola is fine in B- honestly.
I don't think Alomomola should be dropped. Its niche is that is passes huge Wishes and is a really cool physical wall that can pass Wishes while not completely sapping momentum because Regenerator keeps it healthy. Aside from the fact that your post literally hurts my eyes, I have a ton of problems with your logic. First of all, who the hell is going to keep an Alomomola in on a Raikou or Serperior? I won't deny that Raikou is without a doubt a great Pokemon in this metagame, but the fact of the matter is Alomomola is never going to stay in on a Raikou, you should always have teammates to cover Alomomola anyways, such as something like maybe a bulky Dragon or Ground-type such as the Latis or something. Serperior, even though it's receiving the "new toy" hype, is viable but it's not really that good and you can deal with that thing easily with stuff like Heatran and the like. I do admit Alomomola is huge setup fodder for Clefable and Mega Sableye, but that's why Alomomola isn't higher than B- in the rankings anyways. Plus, Chansey and Skarmory are both huge setup fodder for Mega Sableye, and yet both are B+. Sceptile you're not staying in on, and only one Lopunny set takes advantage of Alomomola. Yeah you're vulnerable to Taunt but then you switch, Sableye on its own is outclassed by Mega Sableye anyways, and no one uses Mega Banette because it sucks. Yeah Goth traps you but it traps Skarmory and Chansey as well so your argument is invalid. No one uses Crobat either, and Starmie you can obviously spinblock with mega Sableye. Only players without a brain would let those things run through a team that has Mola for free.
If anything this guy should rise. Alomomola has literally gained nothing and lost nothing. Its setup bait but its also the best wish passer in the meta. It spreads burns and Toxic's and iirc its bulky af. No offensive mon would want to switch into this thing cause its Scald risk. It may have the offensive pressure of a Greninja with 10 mixed attack stats, but its Regenerator ability keeps it alive and keeps its purpose: Burn spreading and Wish passing.
An electric type and a mediocre grass type pokemon counter a Water type pokemon? Shit. (also to note that Serperior will probably drop in usage in like 3 weeks lol)
all in all dont drop it cause it sticks to its niche and a mon doesnt have to be Offensive to be good in this meta, and Alomomola is a great example of that. and its not as easy as you say it is to take out Alomomola...
okay so
a mons effectiveness in another tier has no relation to its effectiveness in this tier, that shouldnt be a part of your argument.
also who the hell runs modest uninvested serperior.
i have a killer migraine so that may be it, but i dont really understand what a bunch of unviable mons have to do with alos effectiveness? why should crobat or mega banette change how effective alo is...
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Exploud (who I just nominated to C) takes an explosive diarrhea dump (LOL) on Sableye and Slowbro too, does that mean it should be A+?
Lum Berry Haxorus can Taunt Sableye (mold breaker) and Slowbro and set up SD for fucking free, does that mean it should be A+?
Choice Band Heracross 2HKOes the hell out of them and can even grab a Guts boost from Scald or WoW, does that mean it should be A+?
PS: Agree with blacklisting Trevenant.
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Unlike your other examples, Garde has some form of bulk (Exploud), isn't outclassed (Haxorus), hits extremely hard (Slowbro), and while its speed tier isn't that great, it does outspeed something (Hera). Garde really hasn't gotten worse, but especially with Ninja getting banned and the fairy span that is sure to happen, it has gotten better. It should stay A+
Also the fact that the entire reason Exploud is ranked is for Trick Room.
I never said Mega Gardy should drop to A (although tbh I could see her there), but I disagree that she deserves its ranking just because she beats Slowbro and Sableye.
also Exploud isn't THAT frail... 104/63/73 is pretty decent, really.
Small nitpick: Lucario and Magneton both have the same link (Lucario) in the OP
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It doesn't fit well trying to compare the situation of M-Gardevoir against Clefable regarding its checks, true they can both threaten its own checks, but M-Gardevoir is only meant to wallbreak,where Clefable can do anything you want and more, have problem with setup sweepers?Put Clefable, Need a reliable Cleric?Put Clefable, Apokemon to absorb status? Put clefable,A SR setter?Cleffable, An effective wish passer?Guess who?yep, Clefable again, the mon can fit so many roles and that is why it should be S ranked(alongside not occupying a Mega Slot).
Also regarding Raikou, I don't think much has changed for it, but the meta around him sure has, before in XY there was not a huge opportunity cost in using Mega Manectric over him, and the 122 Speed tier was definetely one of the most important factors, but now that the real important threats(Aside from M-Lopunny) sit on a 110 speed tier mostly it is possible to forget the extra speed for a similar pokemon that doesn't cost a M-evolution, the fact that 2 of the few relevant pokemon that ourun Raikou(M-Sceptile, Tornadus-T(I think he will raise in usage now that ninja is gone)) lost to him is a good thing that should be took into account.
So no, Raikou has not got a new M-evo,ability or even seen an increase in his movepool, but the meta has been beneficial to him since now there are a plethora of 110 base pokemon, and the opportunity cost of using M-Manectric is much higher than it was in XY.
That said M-Manectric is useful for having a better movepool(Flamethrower) and better bulk thanks to Intimidate(which is better against birdspam), but the fact that he is a Mevo and he lost a pokemon to check(ninja, which Raikou couldn't do that well) is something that should be noted(and before someone says Tornadus-T it already loses to Raikou).
Serperior deserves to be a little higher because he can produce a few important switches(Keldeo-R, non-Scarf latis,M-Metagross,etc.) if they think they are gonna die by Leaf Storm or be crippled with Glare, which lets him boost more consistently and particularly the fact that he can break M-Sableye and M-Slowbro without taking a Mega slot.
Clefable to ----->S rank
Raikou to ------->A-Rank
M-Manectric------>A-Rank
Serperior-------->B rank
Also regarding Raikou, I don't think much has changed for it, but the meta around him sure has, before in XY there was not a huge opportunity cost in using Mega Manectric over him, and the 122 Speed tier was definetely one of the most important factors, but now that the real important threats(Aside from M-Lopunny) sit on a 110 speed tier mostly it is possible to forget the extra speed for a similar pokemon that doesn't cost a M-evolution, the fact that 2 of the few relevant pokemon that ourun Raikou(M-Sceptile, Tornadus-T(I think he will raise in usage now that ninja is gone)) lost to him is a good thing that should be took into account.
So no, Raikou has not got a new M-evo,ability or even seen an increase in his movepool, but the meta has been beneficial to him since now there are a plethora of 110 base pokemon, and the opportunity cost of using M-Manectric is much higher than it was in XY.
That said M-Manectric is useful for having a better movepool(Flamethrower) and better bulk thanks to Intimidate(which is better against birdspam), but the fact that he is a Mevo and he lost a pokemon to check(ninja, which Raikou couldn't do that well) is something that should be noted(and before someone says Tornadus-T it already loses to Raikou).
Serperior deserves to be a little higher because he can produce a few important switches(Keldeo-R, non-Scarf latis,M-Metagross,etc.) if they think they are gonna die by Leaf Storm or be crippled with Glare, which lets him boost more consistently and particularly the fact that he can break M-Sableye and M-Slowbro without taking a Mega slot.
Clefable to ----->S rank
Raikou to ------->A-Rank
M-Manectric------>A-Rank
Serperior-------->B rank
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Alright I've put off explaining a few things about Scarfvoir for a while so let's get on with it.
Just of note, I'll assume the EV spread of 24 Dfc/232 SpA/252 Speed. The same as Mega because surviving Latios Psyshocks is important for revenging.
First off, Speed tiers on Timid vs. Modest. Timid reaches 426 and Modest reaches 388. Let's see everything between those values from the Victory Road Speed Tiers thread.
Out of those there are admittedly a few that matter. Of note are Mega Lop/Tric, Scarf Kyub/Mag and +1 Mega Gyara/T-tar. Omastar and Excadrill you trace Sand Stream/Swift Swim, Neutral Mega Sceptile/Beedrill and +1 Dragonite don't exist, Hoopa isn't released yet, and the rest you can't really beat.
Now if you don't mind about the first six - really Lop and Kyub are the only ones that you should worry about - Modest surprisingly becomes viable. Let's have a look at a couple of calcs.
232+ SpA Gardevoir Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 302-356 (101 - 119%) -- guaranteed OHKO
232+ SpA Gardevoir Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sableye: 290-344 (95.3 - 113.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
232+ SpA Gardevoir Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gallade: 288-342 (103.9 - 123.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
232+ SpA Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 368-436 (107.9 - 127.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
232+ SpA Gardevoir Moonblast vs. 64 HP / 0 SpD Mega Altaria: 314-372 (102.2 - 121.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
232+ SpA Gardevoir Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 356-422 (110.2 - 130.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(For reference, the only move Keldeo can kill Gardevoir with is Specs Hydro, and even then it's only like 12% without rocks)
232+ SpA Gardevoir Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 416-492 (160.6 - 189.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
232+ SpA Gardevoir Moonblast vs. 72 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 260-308 (81.5 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
As you can see, Gardevoir revenges a lot of threats. Latias can't even manage a 2HKO against it, and Trace has as much utility as it does on Mega 'Zam -- Especially enjoyable is Magic Bounce Sableye. In addition, if you come in on say, Manectric before it Mega Evolves, you can totally fuck up it's momentum by using Lightningrod to absorb Volt Switch. You either grab a special attack boost or it switches out or fires off a weak non-STAB move; either way you ruin momentum.
Now, as for revenging weathers...
232+ SpA Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 392-462 (108.5 - 127.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
232+ SpA Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Omastar: 370-436 (131.6 - 155.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
232+ SpA Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kabutops: 370-436 (141.7 - 167%) -- guaranteed OHKO
232+ SpA Gardevoir Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Kingdra: 380-450 (130.5 - 154.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
The only one it can't really beat is Mega Swampert in the rain.
Of course, it has a lot of flaws. Can't do shit to top tier threats like Metagross, obliterated by priority, and is fairly one-dimensional in only able to hold Scarf. I'm not even gonna pretend like faking out this being a Mega is a niche because ORAS introduced a ton of new amazing Megas which are absolute trash like Lopunny and Metagross, and I want to see this stop being touted as an argument. I think however it does have enough of a niche as the one good scarfed fairy in the game, with enough power to fill a spot on a few select teams. Well, fuck, it has to be better than at least Venomoth.
Just of note, I'll assume the EV spread of 24 Dfc/232 SpA/252 Speed. The same as Mega because surviving Latios Psyshocks is important for revenging.
First off, Speed tiers on Timid vs. Modest. Timid reaches 426 and Modest reaches 388. Let's see everything between those values from the Victory Road Speed Tiers thread.
423 / Kyurem-Black / 95 / Neutral / 224 / +1
418 / Omastar / 55 / Neutral / 252 / +2
417 / Heatran / 77 / +Spe / 252 / +1
412 / Excadrill / 88 / Neutral / 252 / +1
405 / Mega Lopunny, Mega Manectric / 135 / +Spe / 252 / 0
399 / Mega Aerodactyl, Mega Alakazam / 150 / Neutral / 252 / 0
397 / Mega Tyranitar / 71 / +Spe / 252 / +1
391 / Magneton / 70 / +Spe / 252 / +1 / 30 IV [Hidden Power Fire]
391 / Gyarados, Mega Gyarados / 81 / Neutral / 252 / +1
389 / Mega Sceptile, Mega Beedrill / 145 / Neutral / 252 / 0
388 / Mega Altaria, Dragonite, Hoopa-Unbound / 80 / Neutral / 252 / +1
418 / Omastar / 55 / Neutral / 252 / +2
417 / Heatran / 77 / +Spe / 252 / +1
412 / Excadrill / 88 / Neutral / 252 / +1
405 / Mega Lopunny, Mega Manectric / 135 / +Spe / 252 / 0
399 / Mega Aerodactyl, Mega Alakazam / 150 / Neutral / 252 / 0
397 / Mega Tyranitar / 71 / +Spe / 252 / +1
391 / Magneton / 70 / +Spe / 252 / +1 / 30 IV [Hidden Power Fire]
391 / Gyarados, Mega Gyarados / 81 / Neutral / 252 / +1
389 / Mega Sceptile, Mega Beedrill / 145 / Neutral / 252 / 0
388 / Mega Altaria, Dragonite, Hoopa-Unbound / 80 / Neutral / 252 / +1
Now if you don't mind about the first six - really Lop and Kyub are the only ones that you should worry about - Modest surprisingly becomes viable. Let's have a look at a couple of calcs.
232+ SpA Gardevoir Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Latios: 302-356 (101 - 119%) -- guaranteed OHKO
232+ SpA Gardevoir Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Sableye: 290-344 (95.3 - 113.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
232+ SpA Gardevoir Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gallade: 288-342 (103.9 - 123.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
232+ SpA Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 368-436 (107.9 - 127.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
232+ SpA Gardevoir Moonblast vs. 64 HP / 0 SpD Mega Altaria: 314-372 (102.2 - 121.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
232+ SpA Gardevoir Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 356-422 (110.2 - 130.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
(For reference, the only move Keldeo can kill Gardevoir with is Specs Hydro, and even then it's only like 12% without rocks)
232+ SpA Gardevoir Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 416-492 (160.6 - 189.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
232+ SpA Gardevoir Moonblast vs. 72 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 260-308 (81.5 - 96.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
As you can see, Gardevoir revenges a lot of threats. Latias can't even manage a 2HKO against it, and Trace has as much utility as it does on Mega 'Zam -- Especially enjoyable is Magic Bounce Sableye. In addition, if you come in on say, Manectric before it Mega Evolves, you can totally fuck up it's momentum by using Lightningrod to absorb Volt Switch. You either grab a special attack boost or it switches out or fires off a weak non-STAB move; either way you ruin momentum.
Now, as for revenging weathers...
232+ SpA Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 392-462 (108.5 - 127.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
232+ SpA Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Omastar: 370-436 (131.6 - 155.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
232+ SpA Gardevoir Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kabutops: 370-436 (141.7 - 167%) -- guaranteed OHKO
232+ SpA Gardevoir Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Kingdra: 380-450 (130.5 - 154.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
The only one it can't really beat is Mega Swampert in the rain.
Of course, it has a lot of flaws. Can't do shit to top tier threats like Metagross, obliterated by priority, and is fairly one-dimensional in only able to hold Scarf. I'm not even gonna pretend like faking out this being a Mega is a niche because ORAS introduced a ton of new amazing Megas which are absolute trash like Lopunny and Metagross, and I want to see this stop being touted as an argument. I think however it does have enough of a niche as the one good scarfed fairy in the game, with enough power to fill a spot on a few select teams. Well, fuck, it has to be better than at least Venomoth.
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The main problem is that Clefable can't do everything at once and tbh is fairly predictable, you can usually tell its set directly from Team Preview. Mega Gardy also has much higher initial power than Clef, which can be really helpful when facing stall (even with Magic Guard). SR Clef is not good and Wish Clef isn't THAT good either (there are better users out there).
Keep Clefable A+.
Although the meta has been really unfair to it, I suggest Staraptor should be B or B- . It gets almost unresisted coverage in Brave Bird, Double Edge and Close Combat optional priority in Quick Attack, which, although not the best priority move, can finish of things that are already weakened by its Brave Bird. Optionally, it can run roost to heal off recoil damage. It's 2 primary STABs, Double Edge and Brave Bird, now get 1.8 boost because of Reckless, and with 120 base attack, dents many Pokemon. It requires Sticky Web support due to its lackluster 100 speed, but almost all B rank sweepers need that. Also, Rapid Spin support is necessary. 85/70/60 defenses are decent at best, but allow Staraptor to switch in without dying. Eclipsed by Talon, yes, but then, this thing doesnt need to set up SD to sweep.(no calcs, i'm mobile)
Stealth Rock clefable is THAT good because when unaware and with enough SpA investment it is one of the few stealth rock users that beats mega sableeye pretty huge imo. Wish clef is also that good because unaware prevents set up sweepers from taking advantage of it unlike chansey, chansey, mola and sylveon. Also supporting Clefable to S rank due to Halycon's points.
Staraptor can't really sweep since it's too slow to do that. It either wallbreaks (CB) or revenge kills (Scarf). CB is really the only reason to use Staraptor imo, as Scarf Staraptor is outdone by Talon, who is much stronger, doesn't care about WoW and has Fire STAB, which allows it to OHKO Ferrothorn. Life Orb Staraptor is really not good since it wears itself down waaay too fast with all the SR damage and Brave Birds and Double-Edges...
I don't think being able to predict a set determines a mon's viability. When you see metagross now you assume that it is Megagross and is a fast physical sweeper. That doesn't mean it should be a lower rank. Clef can be put on any team and still be very effective at what it does. Even if you know its a calm mind set it's still a serious threat. I say Clefable goes to S.
SR Clef not good? the fact that the best Magic Bouncer in the tier(M-Sableye) fears to come in is an advantage it has over a lot of SR setters, the only reason it is not used more is because it is difficult to find a reason to use it over his other moves, but the possibility of using it exists.
Mega Gardevoir as said previosly is relegated to wallbreaking, it is incredible good at it, but you are not using her for any other thing, Clefable can rut a lot of viable sets and moves, of course it cannot run everything at once, Greninja could not do it also, and see where it is now, so no it is not as good as Greninja, but the argument that ''it cannot do everything at once'' doesn't seem that fair.
Anyone can take a lower rank mon and compare it to a bunch of much higher ranked mins (minus serperior) a bunch of which have strong super effective stabs. In fact all you did was run special calcs on a great physical wall. With your logic I could drop chansey down with ease by comparing it to every fighting type in the tier. Or any single thing that can set up on it. I'm on mobile but didn't greninja's dark pulse 2hko mola anyway? I don't think it was even brought up cause of that. Mola has had its place in OU for a while now and there is really no reason for it to drop whatsoever. From all I've seen of your arguments I'd recommend reading up on things a bit more before posting.
Yeah that's what I think. Clefable honestly has better things to do than set up SR.
About the second paragraph: Kyurem-B can also run a lot of viable sets (Sub + 3 attacks, CB, Scarf, Mixed, even SubTail!) and yet it's B+. Of course, Clefable has a much better typing and is harder to take down, but you get my point. Versatility does not imply S rank imo.
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