Considering it has to rely on Focus Miss to deal with Heatran and is OHKOed 80% of the time by Banded Talonflame, you'd still need a way to deal with those two very common threats.is Charizard Y a good partner for serperior
A Physical bait set with EQ to take out heatran could definitely work, but the special set probably wouldn't do too well.is Charizard Y a good partner for serperior
You are correct. Serperior does have other Pokemon that rain on its parade. Heatran is just its most common and most reliable counter.
HP Fire is generally preferred to get past Scizor and Ferrothorn.I wouldn't call anything a counter to serperior just yet. Serperior has a large pool of checks but none of them are for sure counters. Heatran doesn't want to switch in on leaf storm popping his balloon/allowing setup then get bonked by HP ground. If you got fire coverage on the team (magnezone support particularly) then hp ground is perfectly fine on serp.
HP Fire is generally preferred to get past Scizor and Ferrothorn.
I'd also argue that Gyarados (Mega or not) is a great teammate, since it stops both Heatran and Talonflame along with good Offensive synergy with Serperior. You can see this core I made in this thread.I agree with this, HP Fire is the most optimum. imo the best partner for Serperior is Dugtrio with a voltturn core that baits in Heatran. For example I use Mega Pidgeot with U-turn to bait the tran
I'd also argue that Gyarados (Mega or not) is a great teammate, since it stops both Heatran and Talonflame along with good Offensive synergy with Serperior. You can see this core I made in this thread.
Intimidate.+1 252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 310-366 (93.6 - 110.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO (guaranteed after Stealth Rock)
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 189-223 (57 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 285-336 (86.1 - 101.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Gyarados: 217-256 (65.5 - 77.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
I fail to see how Gyarados is a Talonflame answer when it can't stop SD or Band and can even get revenge killed by it.
Those calcs included Intimidate though.Intimidate.
Did you not read the calcs? +1 always OHKOs after Rocks X_XGyarados KOs Talonflame, while Talonflame cannot OHKO without a critical hit after Intimidate.
If it sets up Swords Dance, yes. But for all other sets, Gyarados is a great check.Did you not read the calcs? +1 always OHKOs after Rocks X_X
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gyarados: 189-223 (57 - 67.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth RockIf it sets up Swords Dance, yes. But for all other sets, Gyarados is a great check.
Naturally, most Gyarados won't be running 248 HP / 252 DEF, but this just to show that if you really wanted to counter Talonflame with Gyarados in order to protect our lovely Serperior, you could :).
I like this core.inb4 bulk up/will-o-wisp+roost stall. I think that's also a thing. Hard check at best.
Magnezone+HPgroundSerp+Heatran IMHO seems like the best core. I don't see any glaring weaknesses and the coverage is all there. HP fire is easy to forego.. you can easily counter a ferrothorn or scizor, but getting free switches to eliminate heatran for serp is much trickier.
In case there's a Banded Talonflame locked into Steel Wings, Serperior himself can glare him to put down some pressure, as Steel Wings is not a strong move.How does a Mega Diancie + Serp core sound? Serperior does what it does, meanwhile Mega Diancie stops Talonflame (except for banded Steel Wing versions, but you can't account for everything...)
This is what bothers me, Talonflame only has 81 base attack and still can be such a monster.252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 108-128 (44.8 - 53.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Who needs steel wing?
The typing syngery is sorta there but both pokemon are too frail to switch into either of their weaknesses.
This is what bothers me, Talonflame only has 81 base attack and still can be such a monster.
I think my exact reaction on considering this was somewhere along the lines of "arglearglefuuuuck". Now it's aged into a drier, more mature "ah fuck it". I still hold that they WOULD cover things together, in the sense that a Pokemon can sometimes check something once, but not twice... damn. Back to the drawing board! That Talonflame calc is depressing. MDiancie is just... the opposite of what minmaxing should be. (MBeedrill's distribution on Diancie's BST... *drools*)252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 108-128 (44.8 - 53.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Who needs steel wing?
The typing synergy is sorta there but both pokemon are too frail to switch into either of their weaknesses.