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I'm not sure that you can compare mega Sceptile and scarf lando because sceptile is an efficient late game cleaner and requires much less prediction than Lando T. Scarf Lando is amazing but can be very reliant on prediction to do well. Also, their coverage is very different and you can use scarf Lando on the same team as mega sceptile to check threats like talonflame. Also, you are forgetting scarfers like the ubiquitous scarf tar and even magnezone and excadrill. All of which sceptile outspeeds and ohkos. Also another major threat like mega gyarados is out sped and ohkoed by mega sceptile at +1! I just think that mega Sceptile is the archetypeal mega for hazard stacking teams.
Actually, a Jolly +1 Mega Gyarados outspeeds Mega Sceptile (430 speed versus 427 speed) and cleanly OHKOs it with Crunch, not the other way around.
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Sceptile: 283-334 (100.7 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I agree with everything else you said, but the claim that Mega Sceptile outspeeds a +1 Mega Gyarados does not reflect the fact that Mega Gyarados runs a Jolly Nature now just to outspeed threats like Mega Lopunny and Mega Sceptile.
Lucario is ranked as such because it's actually a pretty legitimate cleaner on Hyper Offensive builds. With such threats such as M-Diancie and M-Altaria becoming a bit more relevant in the tier it has options to run more coverages moves based on the teams needs such as Bullet Punch for M-Diancie and Crunch for bulky Psychic types. So basically it's effectiveness and use on Hyper Offense is why it's ranked at B-.
Lucario needs so drop already, to be honest. I can't see it being on the rankings of Hydregion and Mega Garchomp. It's extremely frail, too slow to be an efficient sweeper and it has an extremely hard time trying to find opportunities to set up. I mean, it's defiantly C+ worthy for the reasons AM said, but B- is too high.
i used to think both megagyara and megalt were definitely s rank, but now im really torn.
i think theres always gonna be a divide in the a+/s rank. for example, take keldeo in xy. it was a great mon, definitely s rank, but not as amazing as something like greninja or charx (hence people called it s-). or in the a+ rank, something like lando is seen as "a+-", whereas something like bisharp is seen as "a++". tjeres always gonna be a fine line between each mons viability, even within its viability ranking that it shares with other mons.
i think megagyara and alt are "a++". theyre a lot better than most a+ mons, but worse than mega sableye or megagross. i just dont think theyre s rank quite yet.
speaking of torn (nice segway right), why is torn-i in c-? torn-t is getting a lot better and i dont really see why you would use it, outside of like, a backup rain setter. but then again, why not just use thundy? i dont have much experience with it but i just think things like dugtrio or blissey are better than it and i dont see why youd use it over other things
It's power is just underwhelming in the actual metagame (for an S-rank threat that is) and it is simply too easy to put and end to, either by scarfers, natural bulky mons or priority. My main problem with dos is that it can't take on a lot of the stronger offensive threats without having them damaged first. I know it is not too hard to wear these pokemons down, but requiring removal of scarfers and chip damage on every semi bulky pokemon just seems like too much support required for an S rank pokemon. Mega gyara also fears a lot of the more commonly used pokemon in the tier, such as scarf lando, keldeo, azumaril, band talon, offensice mega scizor sand exca etc.
I also feel it does way better as a stalbreaking mega on paper than actual game scenarios. Mold breaker taunt is nice, but without any means of recovery at all it kind of fears even weaker attacks. Sub veriants also have to worry about any kind of attack that can immediately break its sub.
Mega gyara is definitely worthy of A+, but i really dont see it performing anyway near as well as the current S rank pokemon.
i used to think both megagyara and megalt were definitely s rank, but now im really torn.
i think theres always gonna be a divide in the a+/s rank. for example, take keldeo in xy. it was a great mon, definitely s rank, but not as amazing as something like greninja or charx (hence people called it s-). or in the a+ rank, something like lando is seen as "a+-", whereas something like bisharp is seen as "a++". tjeres always gonna be a fine line between each mons viability, even within its viability ranking that it shares with other mons.
i think megagyara and alt are "a++". theyre a lot better than most a+ mons, but worse than mega sableye or megagross. i just dont think theyre s rank quite yet.
speaking of torn (nice segway right), why is torn-i in c-? torn-t is getting a lot better and i dont really see why you would use it, outside of like, a backup rain setter. but then again, why not just use thundy? i dont have much experience with it but i just think things like dugtrio or blissey are better than it and i dont see why youd use it over other things
I remember nominating Torn-I to drop, and the discussion went haywire really fast. Alexwolf had a good justification for its placement though, I will see if I can dig his post out. Something about hitting harder than Torn-T?
Regarding M-Alt, AM raises a pretty nice point regarding its viability. From my experience the offensive DDance set is by far its most dangerous set, really threatening, but regarding its other sets... thats where M-Alt problem really is. Let me elaborate:
M-Alt can run a couple of really interesting sets like the DDD one, support one with heal bell and frustration/hyper voice and offensive DD, but overall I feel this sets suffer a lot from matchup dependency. The DDD set is horribly walled by any poison or steel type in play (even gengar can threaten you at +1 even though frail and that it cant switch into a frustration) and overall needs a ton of support in order to be effective, you either deal with the checks or M-Alt wont be doing much with this set. The support one can be walled by heatran to hell and back with the fairy/fire coverage and it will have to switch out. The offensive DD one, by far its more threatening set and what it could push this to S rank imo, have fantastic coverage but plenty of steel types could stomach a hit at +1 (scizor and metagross) and proceed to weaken it for your revenge killer to finish to off or straight off kill it.
Of course M-Alt you can say it has the tools to get past its counters but sadly, it cant afford to run every of its tools in a set. It would need an extra 5th move slot in order to be unstoppable but that wont happen. Running Ddance + 3 attacks? You will miss the recovery. Running 3 attacks on the support set? you miss either the recovery or the ability to avoid status.
Overall, this is one of the few things that stop M-Altaria from being a meta defining poke. A pretty huge threat not gonna lie (it could stomp most of my teams by itself). I wouldnt mind seeing this in S rank but there are some aspects that just dont fill the criteria.
Now on M-Gyarados... stay in A+ rank. Right now it has plenty of checks that could take on this. Ferrothorn with power whip, keldeo, azumarill, chesnaught and the omnipresent scarf lando-t that could revenge kill with superpower. Also, the fact M-Gyara would prefer to run options like sub or taunt instead of coverage like earthquake or ice fang just to hit its targets. I feel M-Gyara really needs either taunt to stallbreak efficiently or sub to have a better matchup against offense. Giving up one of this options is just not good right now.
M-Gyara should stay in A+ rank. Another huge threat but with some problems that just dont put it on S rank atm.
I still cant say shit about clefable... meh, to discuss lower ranked mons later on it is.
Well, since we’re in that field now(edit: well, we're not any more but never mind), I’m going to try and make the case for a B- mon moving up slightly. Should be fun.
Toxicroak B- -> B
This may seem like a ridiculous suggestion on my part but Toxicroak is actually a pretty decent offensive check to large parts of the meta, being able to OHKO or 2HKO many key threats (calcs below) with a Swords Dance under its belt - without 4MSS. And because of a Water(read: Scald) immunity and handy resists, it can get the opportunity to set a SD up. It has really nice priority with Sucker Punch which, when combined with Gunk Shot and Drain Punch, make it a really frightening mon to play around. Sucker Punch is especially relevant because it helps to bypass its frankly subpar Speed and get the jump on would-be counters like Lati@s. It plays sort-of similarly to Mega Mawile in this respect, if substantially less powerful.
Of course, it’s not all perfect for our amphibian amigo. Base 85 Speed is OK-borderline awful, but it would be a hell of a lot better if its bulk wasn’t so miserable. 83/65/65 isn’t exactly Eviolite Chansey and any mildly powerful non-resisted hit will take a huge chunk out of it if not outright killing it. Sucker Punch alleviates this somewhat, but you can only go so far with it. There are also some major threats that it simply cannot tackle, heavily hindering a potential sweep. It’s these key threats, such as Diancie, Pinsir and Talonflame, and that poor bulk which stop me from proposing a higher ranking. While Dry Skin grants him a wonderful Water immunity (completely shutting down CroBro, who can quickly get out of handling range otherwise), it also increases the damage he takes from the Fire type.
Why should Toxicroak move up over something like Volcarona or Lucario, two similarly functioning B- Pokemon? In the case of the former, Toxicroak can comfortably come in on Rocks and arguably has more useful resistances. He also has very powerful priority which lets him take out some threats before they take out him (calcs below), mainly Psychic Types which almost makes that weakness not a worry. The latter can’t cover the majority of the meta in the same way Toxicroak can, despite overall better offenses – just – and comparable bulk. The frog can take out MegaGross, unlike Lucario, thanks to Sucker Punch, which is a huge plus. Sucker Punch, in my eyes, is what really sets him apart from the competition. Toxicroak also has a form of recovery that Lucario lacks, however shaky it may be.
Toxicroak is a really diverse mon, with access to gems like Knock Off, Nasty Plot and, if you’re insane, Taunt to shake it’s moveset up a bit; I will focus on the Life Orb – SD/Gunk Shot/Drain Punch/Sucker Punch build in the calcs because there’s no two ways about it, it is the best one. It gets perfect neutral coverage on the whole Meta except for other Toxicroak, limiting its switch-ins considerably with correct prediction. You have to be very good at the game to make the most of Toxicroak, but being difficult to use does not make it any less viable. I feel that B- is just too low for a Pokemon with this sort of versatility.
Calcs:
252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 292-344 (97.6 - 115%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 263-309 (87.9 - 103.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 520-614 (173.9 - 205.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Mega Metagross: 338-400 (112.2 - 132.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Altaria: 330-390 (93.2 - 110.1%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Altaria: 655-772 (185 - 218%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Toxicroak: 246-289 (80.1 - 94.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Lopunny: 320-377 (118 - 139.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 429-507 (108.8 - 128.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Toxicroak: 138-163 (44.9 - 53%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Gunk Shot vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 585-689 (145.8 - 171.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Toxicroak: 255-300 (83 - 97.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Gunk Shot vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 320-378 (107.7 - 127.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Talonflame: 285-335 (95.9 - 112.7%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Drain Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 289-343 (75 - 89%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 408-484 (115.9 - 137.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Drain Punch vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 577-681 (149.8 - 176.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
If anyone wants any specific calcs, offensive or defensive, I’ll be happy to oblige when I get a chance. Against stuff like Lando-T, it loses spectacularly(obviously a bit of an issue), but hopefully these above calcs and my reasoning show why I think Toxicroak deserves to sneak up to B. It’s difficult to switch into and can smash some threats which really should be checking it, and surely that must count for something despite its shortcomings. Leaving it at B- would be absolutely criminal.
I'm not sure that you can compare mega Sceptile and scarf lando because sceptile is an efficient late game cleaner and requires much less prediction than Lando T. Scarf Lando is amazing but can be very reliant on prediction to do well. Also, their coverage is very different and you can use scarf Lando on the same team as mega sceptile to check threats like talonflame. Also, you are forgetting scarfers like the ubiquitous scarf tar and even magnezone and excadrill. All of which sceptile outspeeds and ohkos. Also another major threat like mega gyarados is out sped and ohkoed by mega sceptile at +1! I just think that mega Sceptile is the archetypeal mega for hazard stacking teams.
I am not denying his capabilities to clean, as stated previously it is better at this than something like Serperior because of his speed, M-Sceptile also gets screwed up if he does a Leaf Storm and a Heatran,Ferrothorn,Scizor,Talonflame comes up, Landorus-T has the ability to spam Knock Off and U-Turn which translates to crippling a pokemon sometimes or just giving you free momentum,which is why you sometimes don't require to predict that hard.
Scarf Tar, Magnezone and Excadrill already lose to Scarf Lando-T, so I don't see M-Sceptile checking something specific that cannot be done with mons that don't require a M-evo, M-Sceptile had the ability to stop Greninja from incoming, which was something not a lot of mons could do, now that ninja is gone I don't see he preventing any specific or threatening something that cannot be done with something lest costly, now add the fact that he is food for Scarf Latios and Talonflame against HO(which is when he has the advantage over something like Serperior) and you will see him struggle even when cleaning.
And as you said previously it is a good mon for hazard stacking teams, but that is equal to rely on hazards to be able to clean effectively, and with is inherent bad match-up against Scarf Latios(the best OU defogger) it is not that difficult to stop it.
Now add that a non-mega pokemon with similar traits does much better against Stall(Serperior).
Some pokes in A- have a niche that is what keeps them here, lets see Magnezone, his ability to kill Steel type mons is unparalleled by non, so when you ahve problems against Steel this mon is isually one of your if not the best answer you can find.
Now tell me why exactly would you NEED to use M-Sceptile?, you could use M-Lopunny, who altough having similar problems against things like Talonflame and Scarf Latios, it still does great against HO AND Stall, so I don't feel M-Sceptile really filling a certain niche, there could be specific scenerios when he could do better(against more bulky water mons for example), but as said many types Serperior is also an answer for that and doesn't cost a Mega slot.
The reason to use a Mega is to do a role that can not be fulfilled to the same extent by a non-Mega pokemon or even other Megas, which I don't find M-Sceptile doing it, M-Lopunny does great against a lot of playstyles, M-Metagross has that incredible offensive presence,M-Sableye is the best Stall mon,M-Altaria/M-Gyarados/M-charX are the best DD in the tier,etc.
So that is why stil stupport M-Sceptile dropping to B+
Imo we should promote Mega-Diancie to A+ rank. EP+Moonblast coverage is godly and it checks TFlame really well. It also has the option to run HP Fire for predicting Scizor switchins or Diamond Storm to stop TFlame. Of course, that isnt the point. It is an easy check to MSab and can Bounce Rocks, Spikes, and a lot of other things. 160/160 Attacking stats are godly and can run RP to become the fastest threat in the game. There is really only a few things to stop it, like Scizor and TFlame if it doesnt run Diamond Storm, but othrwise it really does work. I dont think it deserves the same rank where Char Y, Garchomp, Mega Pinsir, etc. dwell because they have notable flaws and MDiancie is overall better than them. No SR weakness is also a good plus.
Seconding both M.Diancie's and Toxicroak's rise. M.Diancie has great STABs, an ability to force switches on alot of defensive rock setters, and completely destroys sticky web abusing teams. It does have minor 4MSS, with Diamond Storm/Moonblast/EP/HP Fire/RP all beig very effective, and lacking special rock STAB/physical fairy STAB basically forces a mixed set, missing out on it's good bulk (50/110/110 is better than many offensive threats), but in a way it makes it harder to wall.
Toxicroak has been underrated for a while, due to Birdspam and weather nerf, but in ORAS has gotten a great meta shift. Rain has been rehyped due to M.Swampert, and Birdspam has dropped due to a tonne of new megas meaning a sharp drop in M.Pinsir (though T-Flame is still around). Scald immunity is massive, and the passive healing on/V rain teams is nice too. It is all round a nice rain check once the hurricane spammer is destroyed.
On a different note, could somone explain to me what aspects put Bisharp in A+ right now? I don't necessarily think it needs to drop or rise or anything, but I'm just surprised it hasn't really changed within my memory (I recall it being A+ as far back as the Pre-Aegislash and very immediate Post-Aegislash XY Meta).
On a different note, could somone explain to me what aspects put Bisharp in A+ right now? I don't necessarily think it needs to drop or rise or anything, but I'm just surprised it hasn't really changed within my memory (I recall it being A+ as far back as the Pre-Aegislash and very immediate Post-Aegislash XY Meta).
Originally it dropped to A when Aegislash left the tier. Then the tier adapted in favor of Bisharp when Lando-T began to gain some prominence. Also along with the fact people realized its maintained itself as one of the pinnacles of Hyper Offense even after Aegislash left as such it is now A+.
Imo we should promote Mega-Diancie to A+ rank. EP+Moonblast coverage is godly and it checks TFlame really well. It also has the option to run HP Fire for predicting Scizor switchins or Diamond Storm to stop TFlame. Of course, that isnt the point. It is an easy check to MSab and can Bounce Rocks, Spikes, and a lot of other things. 160/160 Attacking stats are godly and can run RP to become the fastest threat in the game. There is really only a few things to stop it, like Scizor and TFlame if it doesnt run Diamond Storm, but othrwise it really does work. I dont think it deserves the same rank where Char Y, Garchomp, Mega Pinsir, etc. dwell because they have notable flaws and MDiancie is overall better than them. No SR weakness is also a good plus.
I am neither for or against this move, but I don't see Mega-Diancie in the same rank as things such as Keldeo and Char-X. It's a bit more prediction based than some of the mon's in A+, with deceptive bulk that can mislead a player to overestimate the hits they can take. The 160 base offense stats are great to look at, but 460 is actually pretty low when compared to say, Keldeo with Calm Mind or Specs on (535.5). A good amount to the S and A+ ranks can handle unboosted Diancie depending on coverage and item choice. I find that through both experience and theorymoning, Mega-Diancie fits in perfectly with Mega-Venasaur, Rotom-W, Manaphy, and Ferrothorn. Leave it A rank imo.
I am neither for or against this move, but I don't see Mega-Diancie in the same rank as things such as Keldeo and Char-X. It's a bit more prediction based than some of the mon's in A+, with deceptive bulk that can mislead a player to overestimate the hits they can take. The 160 base offense stats are great to look at, but 460 is actually pretty low when compared to say, Keldeo with Calm Mind or Specs on (535.5). A good amount to the S and A+ ranks can handle unboosted Diancie depending on coverage and item choice. I find that through both experience and theorymoning, Mega-Diancie fits in perfectly with Mega-Venasaur, Rotom-W, Manaphy, and Ferrothorn. Leave it A rank imo.
Taking out MSab and MLop and Latios fairly easily is really good on the same mon, and while it has troubles with Lando T, so does half of the meta. Dont expect a pokemon to check all of the S rank mons combined. I notice you arent against or for it, but giving a argument about it staying to A seems you are against it. 460 base SpA is great without an item, and if you are comparing it to Specs Keldeo and CM Keldeo then of course Keldeo will be stronger. Being a strong mixed attacker with the move pool to cover a lot of mons is more than enough. Also taking out a notable amount of A+ ranked mons (Heatran, Char X, Char Y, Talonflame, Keldeo, Mega Gyarados, Mega Altaria, Lati@s, possibly Bisharp, and more) Plus a fast speed, great mixed attack, and the ability to check a decent amount of A+/S rank mons, this deserves A+... Comparing a +1 pokemon noted to be a special wall breaker to a nonboosted mega is silly. Thats like comparing a +1 Pixilate Return MAltaria to a +4 Mega Medicham.
While I'm not against MDiancie rising, I've already suggested so in the past, I just have an issue with the suggestion that she is used to bounce hazards when for most part she does not have very favorable match ups with most hazard setters as their STAB is enough of a deterrent against MDiancie, e.g. Garchomp, Heatran, Ferrothorn, Jirachi, Landorus-T, Empoleon, etc. I'd only safely use her as a deterrent against Skarmory but for the rest I find it incredibly risky to do so as you could very easily lose MDiancie to a predicted switch in, and I'd rather not be saccing my mega. I'd liken her usage of Magic Bounce to Absol in that yes they both have magic bounce but generally speaking you don't use them for that utility, it is more an added bonus to protect them from status than anything.
Though my problem with MDiancie rising is that the metagame is less favorable to her as Mega Metagross (becoming the new mega of choice) has gained more popularity, many often carry Bullet Punch now. Adding to that some steels have been gaining prominence, e.g. Jirachi and Empoleon, as well as bulky Excadrill. The rise of steels has not been too favorable to MDiancie.
On the other hand MSable rising in popularity has also been beneficial to her in that she is a great answer against him, and can generally pressure more defensive teams. But MVenus stall has also been regaining some momentum. More importantly Celebi is a more prominent grass type now, which is generally a good answer to MDiancie. I am inclined to say that while she certainly shouldn't drop I don't feel the current environment is favorable.
Diancie's fine where she is. Powerful, yeah, but base 160 offenses aren't as astronomically high as you may think...unboosted, that is. She's also murdered by anything with Bullet Punch (HP Fire's dumb because it can only hit on the switch, and chances are they're going to switch in for free and BP) - meaning that Mega Metagross, one of the biggest threats of ORAS OU, can handle her with ease. Additionally, she is picked off by Rotom-W, Mega Sceptile, Mega Slowbro (to an extent), Scarf Heatran, Air Balloon Heatran, Landorus-T, Excadrill, Ferrothorn (if lacking HP fire), Mega Venusaur, Amoonguss, Mega Aerodactyl, Scarf Terrakion...even Empoleon can do up to 95% with no investment.
Actually, a Jolly +1 Mega Gyarados outspeeds Mega Sceptile (430 speed versus 427 speed) and cleanly OHKOs it with Crunch, not the other way around.
+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Sceptile: 283-334 (100.7 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
I agree with everything else you said, but the claim that Mega Sceptile outspeeds a +1 Mega Gyarados does not reflect the fact that Mega Gyarados runs a Jolly Nature now just to outspeed threats like Mega Lopunny and Mega Sceptile.
I am not denying his capabilities to clean, as stated previously it is better at this than something like Serperior because of his speed, M-Sceptile also gets screwed up if he does a Leaf Storm and a Heatran,Ferrothorn,Scizor,Talonflame comes up, Landorus-T has the ability to spam Knock Off and U-Turn which translates to crippling a pokemon sometimes or just giving you free momentum,which is why you sometimes don't require to predict that hard.
Scarf Tar, Magnezone and Excadrill already lose to Scarf Lando-T, so I don't see M-Sceptile checking something specific that cannot be done with mons that don't require a M-evo, M-Sceptile had the ability to stop Greninja from incoming, which was something not a lot of mons could do, now that ninja is gone I don't see he preventing any specific or threatening something that cannot be done with something lest costly, now add the fact that he is food for Scarf Latios and Talonflame against HO(which is when he has the advantage over something like Serperior) and you will see him struggle even when cleaning.
And as you said previously it is a good mon for hazard stacking teams, but that is equal to rely on hazards to be able to clean effectively, and with is inherent bad match-up against Scarf Latios(the best OU defogger) it is not that difficult to stop it.
Now add that a non-mega pokemon with similar traits does much better against Stall(Serperior).
Some pokes in A- have a niche that is what keeps them here, lets see Magnezone, his ability to kill Steel type mons is unparalleled by non, so when you ahve problems against Steel this mon is isually one of your if not the best answer you can find.
Now tell me why exactly would you NEED to use M-Sceptile?, you could use M-Lopunny, who altough having similar problems against things like Talonflame and Scarf Latios, it still does great against HO AND Stall, so I don't feel M-Sceptile really filling a certain niche, there could be specific scenerios when he could do better(against more bulky water mons for example), but as said many types Serperior is also an answer for that and doesn't cost a Mega slot.
The reason to use a Mega is to do a role that can not be fulfilled to the same extent by a non-Mega pokemon or even other Megas, which I don't find M-Sceptile doing it, M-Lopunny does great against a lot of playstyles, M-Metagross has that incredible offensive presence,M-Sableye is the best Stall mon,M-Altaria/M-Gyarados/M-charX are the best DD in the tier,etc.
So that is why stil stupport M-Sceptile dropping to B+
You certainly make good points. However, when I was talking about scarfers, I was referring to Serperior, not Landorus-T. The amazing thing about Sceptile is that even if you run Leaf Storm, it still has FANTASTIC coverage and speed which should keep a player from spamming Leaf Storm with threats like Ferro, Tran, Scizor, etc, are still around. You can play safely and get damage off and recover off any hazard/chip damage with giga drain, or you can make predictions with Focus Blast, HP fire, and Dragon Pulse. Because Mega Sceptile outspeeds and threatens so many fantastic offensive Pokemon such as Manectric, Lopunny, non scarfed Latis, Landorus, Thundy, and more, AND shuts down one of the most useful and common Pokemon in the meta being Rotom-W, Sceptile naturally forces many predictable switches in which it has the coverage to take advantage of. Also, Sceptile's ability to stop Greninja was one of the main draws to using it for most people. However, Sceptile could not get up a MEvo against Greninja. Greninja's sweeping capabilities put a lot of pressure on Sceptile offense teams to even allow Scept to evolve, making the Greninja ban benefit it's viability in that regard. Also if you want to use the Gren argument, the increasing viability of other fast megas like Manectric and Lopunny makes Sceptile more useful in that, as I stated before, can beat them 1 on 1. Yes, Lando T can do that too, but that same logic can be applied to an S ranked threat like Mega Lopunny also. Just having Mega Sceptile on a team puts tremendous pressure on a huge plethora of common threats in the meta because it is not easy to play around. It certainly may not be the MOST powerful, but it's powerful enough to do its job which is to be a late game cleaner. It also may not break stall like Serperior, but they are very different. Being fast grass types that run Leaf Storm doesn't necessarily make them similar. I agree with Serperior moving up, but I also thing Mega Sceptile should move up for its well fulfilled niche as an efficient cleaner and good revenge killer with its immediately powerful Leaf Storm.
On another note, scarf Latios isn't too common. Its ability to defog and break down walls is more useful than having it out speed common scarfers like Lando.
Taking out MSab and MLop and Latios fairly easily is really good on the same mon, and while it has troubles with Lando T, so does half of the meta. Dont expect a pokemon to check all of the S rank mons combined. I notice you arent against or for it, but giving a argument about it staying to A seems you are against it. 460 base SpA is great without an item, and if you are comparing it to Specs Keldeo and CM Keldeo then of course Keldeo will be stronger. Being a strong mixed attacker with the move pool to cover a lot of mons is more than enough. Also taking out a notable amount of A+ ranked mons (Heatran, Char X, Char Y, Talonflame, Keldeo, Mega Gyarados, Mega Altaria, Lati@s, possibly Bisharp, and more) Plus a fast speed, great mixed attack, and the ability to check a decent amount of A+/S rank mons, this deserves A+... Comparing a +1 pokemon noted to be a special wall breaker to a nonboosted mega is silly. Thats like comparing a +1 Pixilate Return MAltaria to a +4 Mega Medicham.
Diancie can't switch into M-Lop, and Latios is one of those mons who can pack coverage to ohko. Roost/Defog twin STAB may be the most common, but 4 attacks is also a very viable set that can lure things just like Diancie. Plus he is almost exclusively timid, so unless you are going mixed with a +Speed nature, he out speeds and potentially OHKO's with surf. Scarf Heatran must be scouted for, and Mega-Gyarados is only a 18.8% chance to kill if you are a +Speed nature (it jumps to 75% with SP.A boosting). You also can't switch into Banded T-flame, as two high damage rolls get a 2HKO with no hazards on your side. Keldeo was chosen as an example of how much Diancie want's to boost her offense. Even Rotom-W can live her Moonblast and kill back with no SP.Def investment. (61.5-73%).
Diancie is great, don't get me wrong. She's on my main team, and she puts in work as long as you don't fuck up. But she is very much a more prediction based pokemon, which I would say puts her as a solid A rank. She is a beautiful sweeper/cleaner, but with the amount of priority, steel's, and EQ being a coverage move for almost anything that attacks on the physical side (and things that don't), You need to be on top of your game more so than using something like Mega Scizor or Keldeo.
You certainly make good points. However, when I was talking about scarfers, I was referring to Serperior, not Landorus-T. The amazing thing about Sceptile is that even if you run Leaf Storm, it still has FANTASTIC coverage and speed which should keep a player from spamming Leaf Storm with threats like Ferro, Tran, Scizor, etc, are still around. You can play safely and get damage off and recover off any hazard/chip damage with giga drain, or you can make predictions with Focus Blast, HP fire, and Dragon Pulse. Because Mega Sceptile outspeeds and threatens so many fantastic offensive Pokemon such as Manectric, Lopunny, non scarfed Latis, Landorus, Thundy, and more, AND shuts down one of the most useful and common Pokemon in the meta being Rotom-W, Sceptile naturally forces many predictable switches in which it has the coverage to take advantage of. Also, Sceptile's ability to stop Greninja was one of the main draws to using it for most people. However, Sceptile could not get up a MEvo against Greninja. Greninja's sweeping capabilities put a lot of pressure on Sceptile offense teams to even allow Scept to evolve, making the Greninja ban benefit it's viability in that regard. Also if you want to use the Gren argument, the increasing viability of other fast megas like Manectric and Lopunny makes Sceptile more useful in that, as I stated before, can beat them 1 on 1. Yes, Lando T can do that too, but that same logic can be applied to an S ranked threat like Mega Lopunny also. Just having Mega Sceptile on a team puts tremendous pressure on a huge plethora of common threats in the meta because it is not easy to play around. It certainly may not be the MOST powerful, but it's powerful enough to do its job which is to be a late game cleaner. It also may not break stall like Serperior, but they are very different. Being fast grass types that run Leaf Storm doesn't necessarily make them similar. I agree with Serperior moving up, but I also thing Mega Sceptile should move up for its well fulfilled niche as an efficient cleaner and good revenge killer with its immediately powerful Leaf Storm.
On another note, scarf Latios isn't too common. Its ability to defog and break down walls is more useful than having it out speed common scarfers like Lando.
That part is where you-re wrong, M-Sceptile role and checks can be covered with M-Lopunny,Serperior,Lando-T,etc., but M-Lopunny is a mon that also breaks stall, which fingind a mon that has immediate offensive presence, that can also break Stall and does well against HO, that in top of that can support the team with Healing Wish if you want, it is not something that can be covered so easily, M-Lopunny does so many things with just one set, where M-Sceptile struggles to an extent to deal just with one thing, of coruse it is not a bad mon, but non scarf Latis,Ferro,Scizor and actually you can threaten a Lando-T on incoming with Glare or even Knock Off with Serperior, which are moves that require less prediction and are more spammable, something that M-Sceptile can only hope to do.
When I see M-Sceptile on a team I am always relieved that is not M-Diancie,M-Metagross,M-Lopunny,M-Sableye,M-Altaria,M-Gyarados,M-CharX, he is very easy to play around, I mean AV Raikou,Clefable,M-Sableye,Scarf Latios, Scarf Lando-T,Talonflame, or Stall are just the ones at the top of my head that can deal with it pretty easily.
I ask again what great niche does M-Sceptile fills to be in A- Rank?sure he is fast but HO teams usually have an Scarfer(usually Lando-T or Latis) and/or Talonflame which completely destroy it, you could use something like M-Lopunny who in top of checking a lot of things that M-Sceptile does(and having similar checks), also is great against Stall, the opportunity cost of using him is too high for it to be in A-.
Don't agree at all with Diancie rising, in fact I'd probably support a drop to A- at this point if anything. Simply put, I've found it pretty underwhelming, though I haven't had too much experience with it I have used Rock Polish which is apparently the "best" set quite a bit and it's nowhere close to being on the same level as DD MGyara, DD Altaria and DD XZard for two reasons : firstly, it can't actually boost its offenses obviously which makes sweeping balanced teams a lot harder, and more importantly, these 3 Pokemon can actually do things outside of sweeping, because they have the bulk and typing (MGyara), reliable recovery (XZard), or both (MAlt) to be able to come in early or mid game to check Pokemon and still remain in shape to sweep late-game. RP Diancie can't do that, if it comes in midgame it'll take too much damage to be able to set up lategame, especially if you're running a Modest nature which can't even outspeed anything post-mega without a boost. If it wants to make use of Rock Polish it literally has to come in late game, take a hit (since it's outsped by everything) Rock Polish, and then mega. It's basically the best example there is of a pure win condition or one-shot sweeper which is very problematic since it means it can't wear down its counters and has to rely entirely on team support and lures in order to be able to sweep. If there's a Diancie set that makes it A+ (or even A I'd argue) it is definitely not RP.
Calm Mind is a nice stallbreaker, except it's stopped by one of the most common Pokemon on Stall, Chansey (+1 Psyshock does less than 33% and Seismic Toss almost 2HKOs), and Jirachi handles it fine too. On paper it seems like Magic Bounce would be amazing for a sweeper due to it blocking status and phazing, but in practice it falls short due to MDiancie's only okay bulk, lack of recovery, and common weaknesses (by the way, Band Talon has a chance to 2HKO MDiancie, so yeah). Honestly I've found 4 Attacks with HP Fire and 3 Attacks+Protect to be much more effective sets, the last of which sounds a bit dumb but that mega turn is such a massive hindrance for Diancie, I can't stress this enough, not only do you get the pre-mega speed but also the post-mega bulk, so Diancie is most likely taking a lot of damage just to be able to mega. The only other set that doesn't mind the mega turn too much is RP since you outspeed pretty much everything pre-mega at +2 so you can set up and mega the following turn, but I've already covered that particular set's flaws. And as an all-out attacker Diancie lacks the speed, power, and bulk to be all that notable especially for a Mega.
Yes, it screws over Sableye. That is a very good thing and possibly its biggest selling point. But so do the 3 A+ DD megas, and honestly, when I'm using Diancie, I often wondering why I'm not using one of these, especially MAltaria (arguably MDiancie's greatest competition) It also receives competition from MGardevoir who is better at blasting Stall at least from my experience. If you're dedicating your mega slot to screwing Sableye, I wouldn't say there are better options (being able to bounce Wisp back is very, very nice and most Sableye-beating megas can't do this) but there are defenitely other options. (MDoom, YZard, MAbsol beyond those already metioned)
Then there's the ability to bounce back SR, but there are two problems : firstly, it needs to actually mega first which as explained it not easy, and secondly, it doesn't really beat many rock setters beyond Heatran and I guess TTar who doesn't really set rocks.
So yeah I don't think Diancie is that great, and I'm honestly having a hard time seeing it ranked alongside far more influential Pokemon such as Ferrothorn, Slowbro and Rotom-W, and as a Mega I'm not sure if it's on par with Gallade or even Manectric. I'm still really unsure about it dropping to A- since I haven't used it that much beyond RP and it's definitely possible that Diancie's other sets are the ones worthy of its A rank, but I don't think it's much of a stretch to consider it being on par with MAero and MSceptile, even though Diancie isn't really comparable to these two I've personally seen them put it just as much/more work overall, both when using and facing them. This metagame is just getting more and more prepared for Fairies by the second which is a big problem for Diancie, and balance which is the playstyle Diancie struggles against the most is getting more popular, so yeah I would actually consider dropping it to A- since things seem to be getting worse for it overral.
About Mega Diancie, even though on paper it looks absolutely fantastic with those stats, offensive typing and ability, in practice it can't be stressed enough that the mega evolution turn is often its undoing. During that turn Mega Diancie is extremely vulnerable due to the reduced defenses, many weaknesses and extremely low speed. Since Magic Bounce discourages the use of stats moves, most opponents will attack M-Diancie, dealing a good chunk of damage and leaving it very prone to revenge killing. Lack of any form of recovery exacerbates this issue as well.
Been said that, Mega Sableye is complete fodder for M-Diancie and its best shot at mega evolving unscathed, but you can count on one hand the number of other pokemon that give it that opportunity as well.
Been said that, I support Mega Diancie dropping to A-.
