• Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!

Introducing ... GrowthTran!

Aeroblacktyl said:
by your logic, this tangrowth+heatran combo is trash as i have 6 pokes to cuonter it.
Click to expand...

By YOUR logic, teams should include six pokemon that counter a combination of two.

I find this arguement humorous. You are talking as if Tangrowth and Heatran are the only two pokemon on the team.

Sure, they may be the center, but every pokemon and team have their flaws, as Familiar Trainer said. Tangrowth and Heatran simply cover some flaws of each other, but obviously there would be counters to it.

And if you are right, a Swampert with Hidden Power Electric and Earthquake can render Gyaravire useless.

Or the fact Electivire screws over SkarmBliss with prediction?

Obviously everything has counters, but you can't have counters to everything. And how would you know if the opponent had the combo anyways? Its silly to slap counters to something on a team unless it actually poses a threat to your other pokemon.

And if Heatran or Tangrowth die, is the combo and the team doomed to a loss? No. There are five pokemon left to battle, that, if the trainer is smart, wont be screwed over by the loss of a tank or a sweeper.

I'm surprised your against this combo actually, though I must admit I haven't used it, it works great from my knowledge.

I'm sure you are a fine team rater and such, but your attitude and behavior towards this is very arrogant (is that the right word?). I'd expect this sort of arguement from someone who knows less about Competitive battling.

Thats all I can really say about this topic and arguement, Growthtran us a great combo, but far from perfect, like everything else in the game.

Yes, I have joined recently and may not know the forums as much as you, but I know a good team, or combo for that matter, when I see it.

Damn its hard to type on my Wii >_<
 
winey? does that mean the 5 year old is drinking wine? what is winey? do you mean whiney? or whining?

the point is, this is not a combo, you just stick two fucking pokemon together. my whole team is a combo ffs but you dont see me posting about every 2 pokemon every other thread now do i?!?!

p.s. lawman good custom title.
 
This is just like SunnyBeamer Bellossom and Flareon in NU last gen =D

But it works, it's not gamebreaking or anything and it has counter like everything else.
Btw, I run Shaymin instead of Tangrowth just because it's cooler and has a nice SDef also.
 
Can someone please help me solve this example..

Infernape @Lifeorb (Player A) VS Tangrowth @Lifeorb (Player B)

*Infernape wants to use FlareBlitz on Tangrowth"

Turn 1:
Player B withdraws Tangrowth, and sends out Heatran.
Player A uses Flareblitz
Heatran absorbs the damage with flash fire

Turn 2:
Infernape uses close combat... (Holding life orb)

Even if Heatran does survive the CC and does OHKO Infernape with earthpower, Having the damage taken a STAB CC with life orb, as well as taking the recoil from life orb, it will force you to switch because basically anything that hits it with something decent will kill it next turn.

Is choice scarf the only option out of this? (Yes, the Infernape is Jolly with 252 Speed and atk)
 
Seeing how Tangrowth is a durable tank and Heatran having incredible offensive capabilities, increasing it more with Sunny Day seems like a very formidable strategy. Even without the whole Sunny Day strategy, Tangrowth and Heatran contributes great defenses to the team.

MoP is just pissed at you glorifying it I guess =p; don't take it too personally.

EDIT: TO the post above. Heatran may come in to take the hit of Infernape's Flare Blitz, but it would never stick around to take a Close Combat. It'll definitely switch into something that could actually deal with Infernape.
 
Let's use Gengar for example. You switch into Gengar predicting Infernape is going to CC. Infernape won't stick around to take a hit from Gengar, hence why you need alot of predicting to use this as Infernape does destroy both Tangrowth and Heatran.
 
Tangrowth is an easy switch-in, but Heatran 2hkos Infernape. Switching into Tangrowth also means risking being Sleep Powder'd.

I admit it, Infernape does beat this combo. Or any other fire Pokemon with ground or fighting move for that matter. Whoever using Sunny Day Tangrowth and Heatran should have a solid counter against other fires taking advantage of the weather.
 
Orochimaru said:
Can someone please help me solve this example..

Infernape @Lifeorb (Player A) VS Tangrowth @Lifeorb (Player B)

*Infernape wants to use FlareBlitz on Tangrowth"

Turn 1:
Player B withdraws Tangrowth, and sends out Heatran.
Player A uses Flareblitz
Heatran absorbs the damage with flash fire

Turn 2:
Infernape uses close combat... (Holding life orb)

Even if Heatran does survive the CC and does OHKO Infernape with earthpower, Having the damage taken a STAB CC with life orb, as well as taking the recoil from life orb, it will force you to switch because basically anything that hits it with something decent will kill it next turn.

Is choice scarf the only option out of this? (Yes, the Infernape is Jolly with 252 Speed and atk)
Click to expand...

Mhm. Thats why Choice Scarf Heatran Owns. Otherwise, IMO, this combo wouldn't see much use, due to the problem you stated. I run Tangrowth/CS Heatran and it works fine. If you know the opponent is faster and can easily OHKO you, why stay in?
 
Can't decide If it would be better running CS on Heatran, or getting a nice ghost type who will scare Infernape away (Gengar is nice because of CC and EQ immunity)
 
I, personally, run Choice Scarf Heatran. I easily switch Heatran in on Infernape's Flare Blitz attack and safely know that I can easily destroy it. For one, I know I have no fear of scarf, because if it is scarfed it is stuck on an attack that will keep boosting my own attack, and I then easily can Earth Power the hell out of it.

I am going to list the counters to the Choice Scarf set that have been uncovered thus far to this combination. You can most likely figure out what is no longer a counter without the Choice Scarf. The counters must be able to dominate the combination, not just one of the Pokemon. Something like Tyranitar does not work, for instance, since Tangrowth will beat it, especially when it easily sets up the sun and then out-speeds it and takes away its boost. Similarly, Infernape does not work here since Heatran would out-speed it unless it had a Choice Scarf, as well, which renders the "switch-in on a fire attack" even more fun. The following are counters to the full combination.

Also, remember! Water attacks -- often coupled with Ice attacks -- are not as scary for this set. Many bulky waters that think they can beat this set with Ice Beams against Tangrowth and Surf / Waterfall against Heatran will sadly find themselves hitting for pitiful damage in the sun.

Kingdra
Mantine
Heracross (Choice Scarf w/ Prediction)
Tentacruel
Ludicolo

Of these, Kingdra and Ludicolo are the only real threats, as you can easily just switch out to another Pokemon with the others, while Kingdra and Ludicolo may take away your sunshine.

Even SpecsMence, which would normally resist Heatran's Fire Blast, is destroyed by a single blast if it switches in on Flamethrower and triggers Flash Fire during the sunlight. Not to mention that Heatran laughs at all of its attacks -- Draco Meteor and Dragon Pulse are resisted, Flamethrower is absorbed, and Hydro Pump's power is completely halved by the sun.
 
oh my god you really do believe tyranitar is not a counter when it is lol oh my god. well i'm off to college, my first class involves logic, apparently something that this 'strategy' does not have if it thinks tangrowth stops tyranitar lol
 
Aeroblacktyl said:
oh my god you really do believe tyranitar is not a counter when it is lol oh my god. well i'm off to college, my first class involves logic, apparently something that this 'strategy' does not have if it thinks tangrowth stops tyranitar lol
Click to expand...

Well if the combo and/or team is Tyranitar weak, put in Swampert as a counter or something. It can take a Stone Edge easily, survive STAB moves (without DD of course) and take it down with a STABed Earthquake and, not as likely, Hammer Arm. On top of that, not only does it resist Sandstorm (something Heatran can do, but you wouldn't leave Heatran in on T-tar at the risk of Earthquake), but it can also work in tandem with Growthtran as well, as a majority of weaknesses are covered between them.

Fine, Growthtran may be T-tar weak, despite Tangrowths good defence and a STABed 120 Base Power Super Effective move, but you need to remember that there are four other pokemon to support them; Growthtran is not a team of two pokemon, its two pokemon part of a team of six.

By saying that this combo is bad without considering the rest of the team and the overall strategy, you fail in all of your arguements against this combo.
 
The only problem is predicting what set Salamence has. The most I see are all DDmence's which have Earthquake on them, something that Heatran does not want to switch in or stay in general. I do beleive the CS Heatran without the Flash fire Boost will not be able to OHKO Salamence with Overheat even in the sunlight boost. Some people would infact switch in a physical Salamence into Heatran just because he resists fire and is immune Earth Power. But I guess that's why Rockslide/HP [Rock] is there for.

EDIT: Infernape does get outsped by CS Heatran and one shot by Earth power because of it`s bad defences, am I correct?
 
Correct, Salamence would take some prediction. To answer your question, CS Heatran does beat Infernape, as it can switch in on any move except Close Combat and KO with Earth Power.

In terms of Tyranitar, maybe it has just been my experiences. The only Tyranitar that has ever beat this combination is Tyraniboah. CBTar and DDTar both fell to Tangrowth either sleeping it or taking it out.
 
Aeroblacktyl said:
winey? does that mean the 5 year old is drinking wine? what is winey? do you mean whiney? or whining?

the point is, this is not a combo, you just stick two fucking pokemon together. my whole team is a combo ffs but you dont see me posting about every 2 pokemon every other thread now do i?!?!

p.s. lawman good custom title.
Click to expand...

You have a pretty good one yourself.

I see that Tangrowth could be substituted for a few grass types, i.e. Shaymin as someone said, but would it be possible for anyone to be a Heatran substitute? It would be hard I guess, but surely Heatran is not the only pokemon Tangrowth works well in tandem with, right?
 
There are a few Pokemon that could work in Tangrowth's place, though not as efficiently, of course. Heatran, however, is the best candidate. It resists all of Tangrowth's weaknesses, absorbs one of its main ones to boost its own strongest attack type, and has the defenses to switch in on almost any typical attack against Tangrowth.
 
im tempted to lock this thread, mop stop being such an instigator, you are not fooling anybody with a brain with your silly pbpwm arguments, and everybody else please dont act as if this strategy is foolproof, if it works it works great fine but seriously why are people still even posting in this thread
 
futuresuperstar said:
There are a few Pokemon that could work in Tangrowth's place, though not as efficiently, of course. Heatran, however, is the best candidate. It resists all of Tangrowth's weaknesses, absorbs one of its main ones to boost its own strongest attack type, and has the defenses to switch in on almost any typical attack against Tangrowth.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't Roserade also work in conjunction with Heatran, having resists in all of Heatran's weaknesses and vice-versa (neutral to Ground however). Roserade has the Special Defense to cover Heatran's weaks and provides a fast sleep powder as well as good coverage. Also, because you'll be switching between the two often enough, you can take advantage of natural cure. Roserade can set up Sunny Day, and use a boosted Synthesis as well. Just putting that out there...
 
Roserade is actually a fabulous idea. The neutrality to ground is the only draw-back, but it has enough positives to warrant a mention, especially with the 100 BP Fire Weatherball.

Jumpman, I think at this point people are just discussing counters and alternatives. It only got a bit argumentative because of Aero's attitude walking into the topic. I apologize for getting sucked into it, as well. This combination is by no means full-proof, but it does do a fabulous job of what it is meant to do.
 
futuresuperstar said:
Roserade is actually a fabulous idea. The neutrality to ground is the only draw-back, but it has enough positives to warrant a mention, especially with the 100 BP Fire Weatherball.

Jumpman, I think at this point people are just discussing counters and alternatives. It only got a bit argumentative because of Aero's attitude walking into the topic. I apologize for getting sucked into it, as well. This combination is by no means full-proof, but it does do a fabulous job of what it is meant to do.
Click to expand...

I was going to mention weather ball as well, but couldn't decide if I wanted a STABed grass/poison attack for more coverage, as Heatran provides moves of Fire typing already.
 
Sunny Day + Synthesis + Energy Ball / Grass Knot / Leaf Storm / SolarBeam + Sleep Powder / Weather Ball. Something like that. SolarBeam is a bit risky, though, if a sandstreamer switches in.
 
But Roserade is too slow, lacks the required defense stat and lacks enough HP. Sure 105 Base Sp. Def is fine and dandy, but than TTar shuts down your combo because it can get a Stone Edge on Roserade while oyu Sunny Day, and Roserade won't be able to Hold off 100 Base Sp. Def and 100 Base HP while suffering an attack with a High Critical hit ratio (with a power of 150) on a Base 134 Atk stat with Roserade's stats being a 125 Base Sp. Atk, 60 HP Base HP and 55 Base Def. Here's the damage formula:

Damage Formula = (((((((Level × 2 ÷ 5) + 2) × BasePower × [Sp]Atk ÷ 50) ÷ [Sp]Def) × Mod1) + 2) × CH × Mod2 × R ÷ 100) × STAB × Type1 × Type2 × Mod3

Damage Formula = (((((((50 × 2 ÷ 5) + 2) × 100 × 134 ÷ 50) ÷ 55) × 1) + 2) × 1 × 1 × 85 ÷ 100) × 1.5 × 1 × 1 × 1

Damage Formula = ((((((20 + 2) × 100 × 134 ÷ 50) ÷ 55) × 1) + 2) × 1 × 1 × 85 ÷ 100) × 1.5 × 1 × 1 × 1

Damage Formula = (((((22 × 100 × 134 ÷ 50) ÷ 55) × 1) + 2) × 1 × 1 × 85 ÷ 100) × 1.5 × 1 × 1 × 1

Damage Formula = ((((5896 ÷ 55) × 1) + 2) × 1 × 1 × 85 ÷ 100) × 1.5 × 1 × 1 × 1

Damage Formula = ((107.2 + 2) × 1 × 1 × 85 ÷ 100) × 1.5 × 1 × 1 × 1

Damage Formula = 90.95 × 1.5 × 1 × 1 × 1

Damage Formula = 136.425

Damage Formula ~ 136

So that's the minumum damage it can do. Way too much for Roserade to handle. Roserade Fires off a Sunny Day and gets Killed by Stone Edge.

So you switch to Heteran? Alright, but there's the possibility of switching into Earthquake if Stone Edge Runs out of its megar 8 PP.

All calculations were made using Base Stats. Yes, it is possible to have a Lv. 50 Heteran. It's called Battle Tower.

Oh, and great idea, futuresuperstar. Now all you need to do is to make a team around it.
 
Thanks, and, yeah, that was the first thing I did. I made a team centered around the core of Tangrowth and Heatran, which included Medicham, Metagross, Dusknoir, and Cresselia.
 
A thing to note -- the more I use these two in conjunction with one another, the more I find that a physical set is actually in many cases better than a special set. Regarding Tangrowth, of course. With Power Whip, you are doing a ton of reliable damage, not to mention that Rock Slide offers great type-coverage, and Earthquake is always there to play with. It also manages to hit everything hard, unlike Grass Knot vs. Energy Ball debates.
 
I was thinking and Torterra + Heatran would work slightly better

Torterra's Weaknesses:
Flyingx2
Icex4
Firex2
Bugx2

This would be a more stable tyranitar counter as it packs a stab EQ, and along with swampert on your team you can counter electrics with ice / grass.

Gyarados would also fit well as a water counter and since torterra doesnt have the water resistance that tangrowth provides, though I could be wrong as it might take water hits better due to its higher sp def base, (86 i believe).


But when sticking with Heatran + Tangrowth I think CSMence and Swampert would fit nicely with the pair.

EDIT: Another downside to using torterra instead of tangrowth is that it loses chlorophyll, which could be a setback.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top