Or does no one use that?The set I am talking about is Substitute/Leaf Storm/Taunt/HP Fire/HP Rock
You can't carry two Hidden Powers in one moveset lolOr does no one use that?
Thats not really a thing that anyone uses, and try not to double post please.Or does no one use that?
I don't think Mega Pidgeot is underwhelming against prepared teams at all. I actually used Mega Pidgeot for quite a few games during the suspect and it was incredible how easy it was for me to take advantage of Mega Pidgeot's presence against even the most prepared teams. First off, while Mega Pidgeot does have quite a few good switch-ins on purely defensive teams (not really any on offense tho e_e), they are all pretty shaky switch ins when you actually look at it. Aside from the fact that Mega Pidgeot can U-turn out of predicted switch-ins, its only the very Specially Defensive Steel-types and Regirock that are comfortable switching in on Mega Berd (Rhyperior hates HP Grass which is legitimately a threat on Mega Berd). Now I can't really say I have a problem with a stall team being forced to run Zonger / Regi / Other Regi as their SR user to counter a threat, but then you realize that it out-speeds practically the entire unboosted meta game making it incredibly hard to revenge kill so any team that offers any breathing room for Mega Pidgeot must carry one of these Pokemon or else risk being put in a position where Mega Berd easily cleans. I kept seeing these really dumb offense teams with one of these mons on the ladder and they were just so easy to exploit with any set up mon, and frankly were still pretty bad against Mega Pidgeot. I didn't even talk about how hard Mega Pidgeot makes offense to build in this meta so yeah, its pretty obvious to me that Mega Pidgeot is a ban worthy Pokemon.Mega Pidgeot this is a controversial mon to talk about to many but its very underwhelming against prepared teams. Hurricane confusion can turn a game around at any moment but its a part of the game is it not? There's many checks out there for bird unlike the other two suspects. If the meta can settle down with the bans I can see bird staying in RU. NO BAN
Please don't take this the wrong way but this post displays an incredible amount of metagame ignorance. First of all, how is Serperior getting to +1 in the first calc? Leaf Storm raises Serperior's Special Attack by two stages in conjunction with Leaf Storm, not one stage. Secondly yes its really nice that Bronzong can wall Serperior's Grass STAB move, but it actually can't switch into a Leaf Storm.Serperior can't get around spd bronzong, can it?
+1 252 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Bronzong: 79-93 (23.3 - 27.5%) -- 77.8% chance to 4HKO
+2 252 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Bronzong: 105-124 (31 - 36.6%) -- 71.6% chance to 3HKO
Bronzong can toxic serperior, maybe even set up trick room, and stall.
Also, Dragalge can switch in to Serperior's leaf storm and laugh at it and easily scare it out. With Dragalge having very little reliable counters, it can fire off a life orb or choice specs STAB Draco Meteor.
+2 252 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragalge: 61-72 (22.5 - 26.5%) -- 31.2% chance to 4HKO
+2 252 SpA Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragalge: 61-72 (22.5 - 26.5%) -- 31.2% chance to 4HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 235-278 (80.7 - 95.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Dragalge Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Serperior: 346-408 (118.9 - 140.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Just Because an inferior set has counters does not make a Pokemon not broken (even if it's best set has counters the Pokemon can still be broken, lol).The set I am talking about is Substitute/Leaf Storm/Taunt/HP Fire / HP Rock
Yes because being at 12% on a Pokemon that slow with no reliable recovery is "coming out on top" .-. Its also pretty safe to assume that Bronzong won't be at 100% health when switching into Leaf Storm the first time where as Serperior will almost certainly be at full health the first time Bronzong switches into it (; ̄д ̄)If you take Protect into account, bronzong will come out on top
still a mediocre ass check but, js
(fuck eq)
you got a kill, they got a kill, you got a sac for later or now. zonger might get set up on ofc but that's just a general feature of such a mon really.Yes because being at 12% on a Pokemon that slow with no reliable recovery is "coming out on top" .-.
which is why I called it a mediocre check. that said, it takes a lot of LO recoil to beat you and gyro ball does 50% minimum (at min speed against 252 SpA, what is 252 hP even), so even if worn down Serp should be at only +2 with about 20% left (8% with rocks). And if youre not worn down you 1v1 itatomicllamas said:Its also pretty safe to assume that Bronzong won't be at 100% health when switching into Leaf Storm the first time where as Serperior will almost certainly be at full health the first time Bronzong switches into it (; ̄д ̄)
Small nitpick, but you used Calm max HP Serperior in the Gyro Ball calc. The situation would be more likeI don't think Mega Pidgeot is underwhelming against prepared teams at all. I actually used Mega Pidgeot for quite a few games during the suspect and it was incredible how easy it was for me to take advantage of Mega Pidgeot's presence against even the most prepared teams. First off, while Mega Pidgeot does have quite a few good switch-ins on purely defensive teams (not really any on offense tho e_e), they are all pretty shaky switch ins when you actually look at it. Aside from the fact that Mega Pidgeot can U-turn out of predicted switch-ins, its only the very Specially Defensive Steel-types and Regirock that are comfortable switching in on Mega Berd (Rhyperior hates HP Grass which is legitimately a threat on Mega Berd). Now I can't really say I have a problem with a stall team being forced to run Zonger / Regi / Other Regi as their SR user to counter a threat, but then you realize that it out-speeds practically the entire unboosted meta game making it incredibly hard to revenge kill so any team that offers any breathing room for Mega Pidgeot must carry one of these Pokemon or else risk being put in a position where Mega Berd easily cleans. I kept seeing these really dumb offense teams with one of these mons on the ladder and they were just so easy to exploit with any set up mon, and frankly were still pretty bad against Mega Pidgeot. I didn't even talk about how hard Mega Pidgeot makes offense to build in this meta so yeah, its pretty obvious to me that Mega Pidgeot is a ban worthy Pokemon.
Please don't take this the wrong way but this post displays an incredible amount of metagame ignorance. First of all, how is Serperior getting to +1 in the first calc? Leaf Storm raises Serperior's Special Attack by two stages in conjunction with Leaf Storm, not one stage. Secondly yes its really nice that Bronzong can wall Serperior's Grass STAB move, but it actually can't switch into a Leaf Storm.
Zong Switches into Leaf Storm (assuming SR is up)
252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 62-74 (18.3 - 21.8%) -- possible 5HKO
Bronzong is now at 78-82% health | Serp is at 82% (LO + SR)
+2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Bronzong: 153-182 (45.2 - 53.8%) -- 43% chance to 2HKO
0 Atk Bronzong Gyro Ball (128 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 130-154 (36.7 - 43.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Bronzong is now at 37% health after leftovers recovery | Serp is now at 32% after LO recoil (assuming mid rolls on both)
Bronzong dies next turn and you are facing a +2 Serperior with 22% health, of course this is actually the optimal scenario for Bronzong because Serperior could be running Knock Off or Leech Seed to wear down Bronzong and then come back in later and sweep without taking Gyro Ball damage.
As stated by Expulso the standard set is Leaf Storm / Dragon Pulse / HP Fire / Filler, I don't really see the point of HP Rock unless your team is really weak to Fletch or Moltres, and Dragon Pulse is p much mandatory.
Just Because an inferior set has counters does not make a Pokemon not broken (even if it's best set has counters the Pokemon can still be broken, lol).
Also if you keep double posting you will be infracted, there is an edit button for a reason.
You sorta have to account for Serperior's less than average SpA stat at 75 when looking at things, sinceI have reqs, so I post.
Also, why am I seeing these post where people are saying that Mega Pidgeot has a 110 Base Power STAB spammable move, and then say Serperior isn't broken? 130>110. Am I missing something? Like, no joking, what am I missing?
ye whoops, default set in calc is still NU dual screens, lolSmall nitpick, but you used Calm max HP Serperior in the Gyro Ball calc. The situation would be more like
0 Atk Bronzong Gyro Ball (141 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 144-171 (49.4 - 58.7%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
So Serperior would more than likely be left with 1/2 LO hit only in such scenario. But otherwise your point still stands.
Lol, I hate cress just as much as the next user...but you literally have nothing to deal with bulky set up sweepers such as cress. I think you need to readjust your team to better handle a top tier threat before you can complain about it. If you had like 4 different cress checks and then got swept thats one thing, but even Spiritomb wasn't a check because of the fact that you don't even have sucker punch.If this replay doesnt convince you cress is broke nothing will
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/rususpecttest-205259449
ban cress people
Anyway, I just obtained my reqs so I'll write down my more detailed thoughts later. I just thought that PISTORERO made some good points here and I wanted to commentate on them.Pidgeot: I may in the minority but I actually think that Pidgeot is the worst of the three suspects, if it did not get access to U-Turn I would not think so but U-Turn + Pursuit trapper invalidates a lot of checks. I used Assault Vest Slowking for the better part of the suspect and U-Turn is a pain, I ended up keeping Pangoro in on Mega Pidgeot more than once because I could not afford to give the opponent the momentum. Hidden Power Grass is rather evil and you can snipe Rhyperior that come in, or 1v1 them by 2HKOing them if they go for Stealth Rock, which is not unlikely. I got lucky with confusion from incoming Hurricanes but I saw how a Slowking got confused and hit itself, forcing the user to sacrifice something else to Pidgeot so that Slowking can Regenerator its health away. Work Up + Refresh is rather evil as well, and seeing as Hurricane is the move you spam 75% of the time you don't really miss Heat Wave that much.
This is actually a decent point. Mega-Pidgeot is actually a bit more diverse then one would think. U-Turn presents it a great opportunity at many occasions to not only scout the opponents counters but also potential movesets as well. This may be the case for all U-turners bit Mega-Pidgeot is a very effective one because of it's powerful Hurricanes coming off 135 Base Special Attack. The unique Work-up + Refresh set is also very effective because of how unexpected it is right now. It can easily get boosts and decimate teams with it's powerful attacks.
Serperior: this is pretty much as bad as Pidgeot, it can Leaf Storm for free on so many things that will be OHKOed if they stay in and proceed to Leaf Storm again or snipe the switchin with a coverage move. You can try and pivot into it, for example by switching Mega Pidgeot in on the first Leaf Storm, but Serperior can just switch out and come back again later. I ended up resorting to Heatproof Bronzong to catch Serperior and Pidgeot by surprise.
Yeah Serperior is a very easy pokemon to use because of it forces switches on a number of things allowing it boosting opportunities and chances to chip away at it's checks. As said Mega Pidgeot is a very good check, but it cannot switch multiple times because of the strength behind Leaf Storm. Thus requiring bulky specially bulky steels or other checks that can soak the Leaf Storm + potential +2 coverage so that slower teams can have a switch in.
Dragalge: Dragalge is not as bad as the other too, but I think its brokenness actually lies in its access to Toxic Spikes. You can easily switch out Specs for Draco or Toxic Plate and, as well as luring in something that thinks Dragalge is choice-locked, can set up Toxic Spikes to further pressure the opposing team. Hidden Power Fire and Scald are just bonus moves that you can use on Steel-types, and Draco Meteor breaks Doublade in half anyway.
That is something I experienced too. Dragalge's strengths come in a more unexpected place then I first thought. I first thought that the specs set was amazing and potentially broken because of it's power, but after using it some and thinking it over again I've seen the same thing. The specs set is good but actually more balanced then I thought because it lies in such a low speed tier. That makes it hard to get in and nuke opponents efficiently while letting it get easily revenge killed. However, it's main strength that I found was from bluffing the Specs set and fooling your opponent to switch in something weak to one of your coverages but resistant to your "locked" move and hit them then. Toxic Spikes I have less experience with but they do provide a nice ultility role for Dragalge.
Something else to mention is that all of these Pokemon appreciate Dugtrio support, which can easily remove their checks and counters and let them run over the opponent's team. Dugtrio can KO Slowking with Earthquake after Stealth Rock and U-Turn damage, can KO Heatproof Bronzong if you are using it to absorb HP Fire and Heat Wave, and can KO Registeel too. I will be voting to ban all three of these Pokemon from the RU tier as despite how fun it is to use all three, I firmly believe that the tier will be much better with them gone.
That is the case with a lot of sweepers though. They usually appreciate trapping support to eliminate their checks and counters so they can proceed to sweep the enemy team. It's just that Dugtrio is good because of how good steel is defensively, and it can almost always handle them. These three in particular do process relatively extraordinary offensive prowess.
I love how you assert its weak before setting up, but it can 2hko a lot of not amazingly bulky resists on the initial switchin, like cobalionSerperior: This Pokemon is the most overhyped thing, it is really quite annoying how hyped it became in the previous thread and how even now everyone is like OMG SERPERIOR IS SO BROKEN, 130BP STAB NASTY PLOT IS SO GOOD I CAN'T DEAL WITH IT!!!!!!!!!!! Like seriously? There are sooooo many offensive checks its ridiculous, not to mention defensive teams have answers as well. Everyone is sitting here acting like its this amazing thing that can 6-0 teams, it is just another set up sweeper. Its literally the weakest thing before it gets up a Leaf Storm, sitting at only base 75 it really quite weak to start off with and needs to get up to +4 to be able to do some real damage. Its coverage is terrible and it really just has Dragon Pulse and Hidden Powers to break past walls with. Now I get that it doesn't need other things to be able to break past walls, but at the same time it isn't this amazing all powerful deity. I've yet to see this Pokemon actually do something that literally any other set up sweeper can do, I've only been beaten by it once when I let my checks die which any other setup sweeper saved for late game could of done as well. If you've played with the mon I honestly can't see why you want it banned. There are just so many ways to stop it and it just fails to do anything all the times I've seen it that this I think it shouldn't be banned.