Resource Don't Use That; Use This (ORAS Version)

[jzplr]

What Focus Sash users threaten Lucario outside Breloom may I ask? And Ghost types are still wrecked by Crunch, pretty sure a +2 super effective move coming off an 110 attack stat is pretty threatening.

Just because a Pokemon has more viability than an other, doesn't mean the other is a bad Pokemon and shouldn't be used.

Diggersby's Earthquake.
Garchomp's Earthquake.
Excadrill's Earthquake.
Infernape's (rare, but it's still a thing) STAB.
Mamoswine's Earthquake.
Terrakion's Close Combat/Earthquake.

And I forgot to mention you've got Intimidate users such as Landorus-T, Gyarados and even Mega Manectric. While he'll still have +1, it's probably not enough from a non-stab 80 base power move.

The point of this thread is to compare sets and mons who have similar roles but are far superior or inferior depending on the comparison. If they server entirely different roles there's no point in trying to establish not to use one of them. That's like comparing Azumarill and Diggersby and saying not to use one or the other.

Perhaps I did go overboard with the whole "Lucario = crap" thing, and I still hold by my case that Lucario just ain't good.

But I just think that 81 on the top 200 OU Pokemon is just MIND BOGGLING. There's just too many things that Lucario isn't than what he is.
He just looks like he needs too much supports when you have other alternatives that require less support.

 

[Sablenite]

Why did we do that? Can I make the correct one? Don' use Lucario, use Dragonite.

 

[Sanger Zonvolt]

Diggersby's Earthquake.
Garchomp's Earthquake.
Excadrill's Earthquake.
Infernape's (rare, but it's still a thing) STAB.
Mamoswine's Earthquake.
Terrakion's Close Combat/Earthquake.

And I forgot to mention you've got Intimidate users such as Landorus-T, Gyarados and even Mega Manectric. While he'll still have +1, it's probably not enough from a non-stab 80 base power move.

I think you're missing the point of Lucario. Lucario is not meant to take out faster threats 1v1. You drop him after faster offensive threats have been weakened. For many fast threats, if Lucario is at +2 and they've been reasonably weakened, it won't matter if they have priority, EQ or super-effective STAB. Yes, a lot of things can OHKO him, but if you use him right it won't matter.

Perhaps I did go overboard with the whole "Lucario = crap" thing, and I still hold by my case that Lucario just ain't good.

But I just think that 81 on the top 200 OU Pokemon is just MIND BOGGLING. There's just too many things that Lucario isn't than what he is.
He just looks like he needs too much supports when you have other alternatives that require less support.

If you're complaining that his usage is too high, have you ever thought that the usage is that high because he's viable, not despite it? There is a reason why we always say usage =/= viability, and this is one of those cases. No, Lucario is not a meta-defining threat, but he's useful enough to merit building around him.

Honestly, considering a mod has intervened twice, this conversation should be taken somewhere other than the thread, such as someone's VM page.

Why did we do that? Can I make the correct one? Don' use Lucario, use Dragonite.

No, just no. That's an even worse comparison than Lucario and Talonflame. Did you not read the last like 5-10 posts on this?

 

[Der Twist]

Honestly, considering a mod has intervened twice, this conversation should be taken somewhere other than the thread, such as someone's VM page.

Or the Viability thread at least. Honestly, since this has turned into pretty much just whether or not Lucario is viable or not above anything else this, in lack of a looser term, discussion belongs there more so than here.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

*Sigh*...Why do we even bring up viable Pokemon in this thread. This logic to try and say "DON'T USE LUCARIO" is awful and I want to just throw in the nail in the coffin against this right now.

Lucario is a viable Pokemon. It's not an amazing Pokemon, yes, but it's viable, which is why it's B-. SuperLuigi9624, everything you said is either false or irrelevant, implying you don't know how Lucario should be used, and I have a feeling your judgement of Lucario is largely being based on its usage by ladder scrubs, and a player who is competent in OU knows that the ladder, especially the lower and mid rungs, is not exactly a very good measure of a Pokemon's viability. Lucario is a viable late-game cleaner, as it aims to use its priority Extreme Speed, boosted by Swords Dance, to sweep late in the game well, and this makes it harder to revenge kill as it can prioritize and revenge kill any sufficiently weakened Pokemon late in the game. A great perk with E-Speed and Swords Dance is that Lucario is a sweeper that isn't crippled or beaten by Talonflame or Thundurus, as it can outprioritize them with E-Speed. Its Close Combat hits very hard after a Swords Dance boost, OHKOing Skarmory after Rocks and hitting many slower Pokemon hard after a Swords Dance boost, and it can run Iron Tail to hit Mega Venusaur and Mega Sableye hard. Lucario is also a decent check to many Pokemon thanks to its typing and okay Speed, such as Heatran, Mamoswine, Chansey, and a few others. Now, obviously Lucario isn't taking a hit from Mamoswine or Heatran, which is why I said check, but it can revenge kill them with Close Combat. It can also take on Bisharp extremely well, and Justified allows it to gain a free Attack boost, which is a nice perk. It can use Iron Tail and Close Combat to hit hard many slower mons such as Mega Altaria, and friends.

Now, Lucario isn't supposed to be sweeping teams from Turn 3 or such. That's not what it does at all. When the team has been sufficiently weakened due to hazards and repeated damage and the like, and Lucario's counters are either severely weakened or defeated, that's when it shines, being able to sweep late in the game. Think of it as something of a Fletchinder or Slurpuff in RU and UU: it shouldn't attempt to sweep until its counters are gone, but once they are, Lucario can shine.

Now I'm not arguing that Lucario is an outstanding Pokemon in this metagame, because it's obviously not: it's only decent. But, Lucario is not in any way unviable like the other Pokemon in this thread, and has a viable and good niche in this metagame. This thread serves to bring up completely unviable and useless Pokemon in this thread that should not at all be used (Such as Dusknoir, Mega Banette, and lol Shedinja) or viable Pokemon commonly seen running a move that shouldn't be used on them, and then suggest better alternatives.

P.S. Lucario and Dragonite are not that similar except for using E-Speed, the former is a late-game sweeper, the latter is a wallbreaker and they do rather different stuff in general.

 

[Sablenite]

Okay, with earlier arguments about priority Extreme Speed has been rated the best. For time's sake I will not bring up the subject of Arcainine because that is another thing all together.

Don't use this:

Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Crunch

Lucario, a high priority boosting possible killer. The initial thing wrong is his bulk at 70/70/70, he often fais to get a swords dance up. Once scouted Clefable can wall it as well as Sableye. My final point is: If you fail to 1HKO a offensive 'mon Lucario is down. Although I will admit it has a niche.


Instead use this:

Dragonite (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw / Outrage
- Extreme Speed
- Iron Head / Eathquake / Fire Punch

Dragonite can Set-up fairly easy due to its ability Multiscale, as long as it doesn't come in on Stealth Rocks. It has access to a good amount of coverage that lets it either get by Clefable, Heatran, or Ferrothorn as well as High powered Dragon Moves. Also it isn't a one trick pony since it can run a OU viable Bulky Roost set, making your opponent guess.

I know my descriptions are not the best, but I will try to answer Questions.

 

[firehusky]

Hey guys, let's stop arguing.
But anyways, here's another one.
Don't use this:

Hide

Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Soft-Boiled
- Heal Bell
- Flamethrower / Ice Beam

Blissey is one of the notorious pink blobs. It has monster HP and Special Defense stat, allowing it to act as a great special wall. It can also run wish, to pass to another teammate, basically healing them up to full health. So why is it bad? Well, the answer is that Chansey pretty much outclasses it.

Use this instead:

Hide

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
- Soft-Boiled
- Heal Bell
- Stealth Rock
- Seismic Toss

Chansey may seem inferior to Blissey. What is an NFE doing in OU? Well, the answer to that is the Eviolite. Eviolite boosts your defense and special defense by 1.5x for any given NFE, giving it better defensive stats. It's HP stat is a little bit lower, but it doesn't really make that much of a difference, as it's wishes are already really huge. There are only 3 reasons why you would ever want to use Blissey over Chansey. The first reason is leftovers. Leftovers makes Blissey hard to wear down with residual damage such as sandstorm and burn damage. It also gives it passive recovery, allowing it to avoid some certain 2HKOs. The other reason is Knock Off. Knock Off is very prevalent in ORAS, with many new Pokemon getting it. Knock Off takes away Chansey's Eviolite, pretty much neutering it. The third reason is that Blissey actually has an offensive presence. It can run moves like Ice Beam and Flamethrower, allowing it to get past Pokemon like Skarmory, Ferrothorn, Gengar, and Latias. Another reason is that Blissey can hold a shed shell, so it can't be trapped by Pokemon like Gothitelle and Dugtrio. But in most cases, Chansey is better thanks to Eviolite giving it better defensive stats.

Calcs

252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 235-277 (36.6 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 322-379 (49.3 - 58.1%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 226-266 (35.2 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 308-364 (47.2 - 55.8%) -- 22.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 194-230 (30.2 - 35.8%) -- 38.5% chance to 3HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey: 244-288 (37.4 - 44.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

As you can see, Chansey takes hits better from both sides of the spectrum.

Okay, with earlier arguments about priority Extreme Speed has been rated the best. For time's sake I will not bring up the subject of Arcainine because that is another thing all together.

Don't use this:

Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Crunch

Lucario, a high priority boosting possible killer. The initial thing wrong is his bulk at 70/70/70, he often fais to get a swords dance up. Once scouted Clefable can wall it as well as Sableye. My final point is: If you fail to 1HKO a offensive 'mon Lucario is down. Although I will admit it has a niche.


Instead use this:

Dragonite (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw / Outrage
- Extreme Speed
- Iron Head / Eathquake / Fire Punch

Dragonite can Set-up fairly easy due to its ability Multiscale, as long as it doesn't come in on Stealth Rocks. It has access to a good amount of coverage that lets it either get by Clefable, Heatran, or Ferrothorn as well as High powered Dragon Moves. Also it isn't a one trick pony since it can run a OU viable Bulky Roost set, making your opponent guess.

I know my descriptions are not the best, but I will try to answer Questions.

Seriously dude...

No, just no. That's an even worse comparison than Lucario and Talonflame. Did you not read the last like 5-10 posts on this?

 

[Karxrida]

Hey guys, let's stop arguing.
But anyways, here's another one.
Don't use this:

Hide

Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Soft-Boiled
- Heal Bell
- Seismic Toss

Blissey is one of the notorious pink blobs. It has monster HP and Special Defense stat, allowing it to act as a great special wall. It can also run wish, to pass to another teammate, basically healing them up to full health. So why does it suck? Well, the answer is that Chansey pretty much outclasses it.

Use this instead:

Hide

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
- Soft-Boiled
- Heal Bell
- Stealth Rock
- Seismic Toss

Chansey may seem inferior to Blissey. What is an NFE doing in OU? Well, the answer to that is the Eviolite. Eviolite boosts your defense and special defense by 1.5x for an NFE, giving it better defensive stats. It's HP stat is a little bit lower, but it doesn't really make that much of a difference, as it's wishes are already really huge. There are only 2 reasons why you would ever want to use Blissey over Chansey. The first reason is leftovers. Leftovers makes Blissey hard to wear down with residual damage such as sandstorm and burn damage. It also gives it passive recovery, allowing it to avoid some certain 2HKOs. The other reason is Knock Off. Knock Off is very prevalent in ORAS, with many new Pokemon getting it. Knock Off takes away Chansey's Eviolite, pretty much neutering it. But for the most part, Chansey is better thanks to Eviolite giving it better defensive stats.

Calcs

252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 235-277 (36.6 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 322-379 (49.3 - 58.1%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 226-266 (35.2 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 308-364 (47.2 - 55.8%) -- 22.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 194-230 (30.2 - 35.8%) -- 38.5% chance to 3HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey: 244-288 (37.4 - 44.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

As you can see, Chansey takes hits better from both sides of the spectrum.


Seriously dude...

Blissey doens't lose to Knock Off Lando-I and can even hold a Shed Shell if you fear Gothitelle. It's usually not the best option, but it's not completely outclassed.

 

[Kurona]

Hey guys, let's stop arguing.
But anyways, here's another one.
Don't use this:

Hide

Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Soft-Boiled
- Heal Bell
- Seismic Toss

Blissey is one of the notorious pink blobs. It has monster HP and Special Defense stat, allowing it to act as a great special wall. It can also run wish, to pass to another teammate, basically healing them up to full health. So why does it suck? Well, the answer is that Chansey pretty much outclasses it.

Use this instead:

Hide

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
- Soft-Boiled
- Heal Bell
- Stealth Rock
- Seismic Toss

Chansey may seem inferior to Blissey. What is an NFE doing in OU? Well, the answer to that is the Eviolite. Eviolite boosts your defense and special defense by 1.5x for an NFE, giving it better defensive stats. It's HP stat is a little bit lower, but it doesn't really make that much of a difference, as it's wishes are already really huge. There are only 2 reasons why you would ever want to use Blissey over Chansey. The first reason is leftovers. Leftovers makes Blissey hard to wear down with residual damage such as sandstorm and burn damage. It also gives it passive recovery, allowing it to avoid some certain 2HKOs. The other reason is Knock Off. Knock Off is very prevalent in ORAS, with many new Pokemon getting it. Knock Off takes away Chansey's Eviolite, pretty much neutering it. But for the most part, Chansey is better thanks to Eviolite giving it better defensive stats.

Calcs

252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 235-277 (36.6 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 322-379 (49.3 - 58.1%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 226-266 (35.2 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 308-364 (47.2 - 55.8%) -- 22.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 194-230 (30.2 - 35.8%) -- 38.5% chance to 3HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey: 244-288 (37.4 - 44.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

As you can see, Chansey takes hits better from both sides of the spectrum.


Seriously dude...

This is actually also incorrect; Blissey is viable in OU - albeit like C- rank or something - as a Chansey that has offensive presence and leftovers recovery without fearing Knock Off all that much. Yeah it's defences are lower but it's still not giving a shit about Special Attacks any day of the week.

 

[AM]

The Dragonite vs. Lucario comparions is false as well. Lucario isn't a one trick pony either with its coverage options. It's clearly obvious you haven't used Lucario on a consistent basis to be creating these assumptions on it. Debate over, move on to other comparisons that make sense.

 

[firehusky]

Blissey doens't lose to Knock Off Lando-I and can even hold a Shed Shell if you fear Gothitelle. It's usually not the best option, but it's not completely outclassed.

Yes, I'll change it.

This is actually also incorrect; Blissey is viable in OU - albeit like C- rank or something - as a Chansey that has offensive presence and leftovers recovery without fearing Knock Off all that much. Yeah it's defences are lower but it's still not giving a shit about Special Attacks any day of the week.

Yeah I mentioned knock off and leftovers in the entry. I'll change it to blissey is not completely outclassed, but in most cases you would want to use chansey.

 

[Sablenite]

Hey guys, let's stop arguing.
But anyways, here's another one.
Don't use this:

Hide

Blissey @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Soft-Boiled
- Heal Bell
- Seismic Toss

Blissey is one of the notorious pink blobs. It has monster HP and Special Defense stat, allowing it to act as a great special wall. It can also run wish, to pass to another teammate, basically healing them up to full health. So why does it suck? Well, the answer is that Chansey pretty much outclasses it.

Use this instead:

Hide

Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
- Soft-Boiled
- Heal Bell
- Stealth Rock
- Seismic Toss

Chansey may seem inferior to Blissey. What is an NFE doing in OU? Well, the answer to that is the Eviolite. Eviolite boosts your defense and special defense by 1.5x for any given NFE, giving it better defensive stats. It's HP stat is a little bit lower, but it doesn't really make that much of a difference, as it's wishes are already really huge. There are only 2 reasons why you would ever want to use Blissey over Chansey. The first reason is leftovers. Leftovers makes Blissey hard to wear down with residual damage such as sandstorm and burn damage. It also gives it passive recovery, allowing it to avoid some certain 2HKOs. The other reason is Knock Off. Knock Off is very prevalent in ORAS, with many new Pokemon getting it. Knock Off takes away Chansey's Eviolite, pretty much neutering it. But for the most part, Chansey is better thanks to Eviolite giving it better defensive stats.

Calcs

252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 235-277 (36.6 - 43.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 322-379 (49.3 - 58.1%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 226-266 (35.2 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 308-364 (47.2 - 55.8%) -- 22.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 194-230 (30.2 - 35.8%) -- 38.5% chance to 3HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Adaptability Dragalge Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Blissey: 244-288 (37.4 - 44.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

As you can see, Chansey takes hits better from both sides of the spectrum.

There is a better EV spread for Chansey.

EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD

Sorry I can't do math. The 248 is for Hazards.

 

[firehusky]

There is a better EV spread for Chansey.

EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 16 SpD

Lol that EV spread isn't even possible...
And I believe the current EV spread is the best. The on-site Chansey analysis suggests this EV spread. And what does 248 HP EVs even do? It's not like you're holding leftovers or something.

 

[SketchUp]

Blissey should run an offensive move like Flamethrower, Ice Beam or Shadow Ball in my opinion, so that it can also beat Gengar.
Gengar, Knock Off Spam, Residual damage (not really relevant because status=heal bell or switching out and weather is nerfed) and the ability to hold lefties/shed shell are things where Blissey > Chansey.

 

[firehusky]

Ok, I'll add the stuff about shell bell and gengar. Other than that, I think I have everything covered.

 

[Kurona]

Ok, I'll add the stuff about shell bell and gengar. Other than that, I think I have everything covered.

Well no, because then it's not a don't-use-this because there are very clearly reasons to use Blissey over Chansey, hence the whole thing becomes irrelevant.

 

[firehusky]

Well no, because then it's not a don't-use-this because there are very clearly reasons to use Blissey over Chansey, hence the whole thing becomes irrelevant.

However, most the reasons are pretty small. Blissey is better at taking residual damage, but it has natural cure already, and sand isn't even that common anymore. Blissey is found on stall teams most of the time, and gothitelle already screws up stall anyways, except mega sableye. I'll remove it anyways, since it's not that good of an example.

 

[MQJinx]

Venusaurite 69.276%
seriously

Don't use this:

Why it's bad:

While Venusaur may seem appealing to use as a Chlorophyll sweeper, it just isn't effective in the current meta. The reason is because sun just isn't effective in the current meta, as it is forced to rely on the mediocre Ninetales to do its job, and the weather nerf and Venusaur's only average speed outside of sun renders it unable to sweep teams like it used to in Gen 5 with permaweather. Rain and sand are better weathers to use in the current meta because there are many effective mons that can use either of these weathers: Rain has Kingdra, Kabutops, Seismitoad, Omastar, Mega Swampert, Manaphy, Ludicolo, Keldeo, Tornadus-T, and Politoed, while Sand has Excadrill, Mega Garchomp, Tyranitar, and Hippowdon. Politoed, Tyranitar, and Hippowdon all possess various utility that allows them to do work outside of setting weather.

Use this:

Why it's good:

If you want to use Venusaur, then use its Mega Evolution. Mega Venusaur can serve as both an effective offensive tank and an effective defensive wall, with those good 80/123/120 defenses and Thick Fat. Its Special Attack and Speed are good for a bulky mon, being 122 and 80 respectfully. It has all the tools it needs with Giga Drain, Synthesis, Leech Seed, and Sleep Powder to carve its role in OU. Plus it can form effective cores with other mons like Heatran for a nice classic defensive core. It can check stuff like Keldeo, which is one of the most defining threats in the current metagame, which warrants its usage.

 

[Karxrida]

Venusaurite 69.276%
seriously

Don't use this:

Why it's bad:

While Venusaur may seem appealing to use as a Chlorophyll sweeper, it just isn't effective in the current meta. The reason is because sun just isn't effective in the current meta, as it is forced to rely on the mediocre Ninetales to do its job, and the weather nerf and Venusaur's only average speed outside of sun renders it unable to sweep teams like it used to in Gen 5 with permaweather. Rain and sand are better weathers to use in the current meta because there are many effective mons that can use either of these weathers: Rain has Kingdra, Kabutops, Mega Swampert, Manaphy, Keldeo, Tornadus-T, and Politoed, while Sand has Excadrill, Mega Garchomp, Tyranitar, and Hippowdon. Politoed, Tyranitar, and Hippowdon all possess various utility that allows them to do work outside of setting weather.

Use this:

Why it's good:

If you want to use Venusaur, then use its Mega Evolution. Mega Venusaur can serve as both an effective offensive tank and an effective defensive wall, with those good 80/123/120 defenses and Thick Fat. Its Special Attack and Speed are good for a bulky mon, being 122 and 80 respectfully. It has all the tools it needs with Giga Drain, Synthesis, Leech Seed, and Sleep Powder to carve its role in OU. Plus it can form effective cores with other mons like Heatran for a nice classic defensive core. It can check stuff like Keldeo, which is one of the most defining threats in the current metagame, which warrants its usage.

Mega Venusaur doens't outclass Venusaur since they have different roles. A better comparison would be with Excadrill or the Swift Swimmers.

 

[firehusky]

Venusaurite 69.276%
seriously

Don't use this:

Why it's bad:

While Venusaur may seem appealing to use as a Chlorophyll sweeper, it just isn't effective in the current meta. The reason is because sun just isn't effective in the current meta, as it is forced to rely on the mediocre Ninetales to do its job, and the weather nerf and Venusaur's only average speed outside of sun renders it unable to sweep teams like it used to in Gen 5 with permaweather. Rain and sand are better weathers to use in the current meta because there are many effective mons that can use either of these weathers: Rain has Kingdra, Kabutops, Mega Swampert, Manaphy, Keldeo, Tornadus-T, and Politoed, while Sand has Excadrill, Mega Garchomp, Tyranitar, and Hippowdon. Politoed, Tyranitar, and Hippowdon all possess various utility that allows them to do work outside of setting weather.

Use this:

Why it's good:

If you want to use Venusaur, then use its Mega Evolution. Mega Venusaur can serve as both an effective offensive tank and an effective defensive wall, with those good 80/123/120 defenses and Thick Fat. Its Special Attack and Speed are good for a bulky mon, being 122 and 80 respectfully. It has all the tools it needs with Giga Drain, Synthesis, Leech Seed, and Sleep Powder to carve its role in OU. Plus it can form effective cores with other mons like Heatran for a nice classic defensive core. It can check stuff like Keldeo, which is one of the most defining threats in the current metagame, which warrants its usage.

Actually sun can use Mega Zard Y as a setter. Also, you should list mega heracross and omastar as effective mons in rain.

 

[Der Twist]

Yeah, this is comparison where it's not suitable again. Mega Venusaur and standard Venusaur have completely different roles. Regular Venusaur should not be used on the basis of it being a relatively meh abuser of the sub-optimal weather offence known as Sun, Mega Venu is a stone-cold tank. If you're ever going to see a regular Venusaur in OU, then it's more than likely going to be holding a Life Orb and spamming Solar Beam in the Sun set by Charizard Y, or lord-forbid Ninetales, not the kind of shit you'd pull with a Mega Venu, it's a whole different ball game. Comparing those two is like judging between Megazard Y and X, they do different things entirely and are incomparable in any way barring their names.

 

[Tressed]

Let's do a serious one about Lucario

Don't use this

Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Aura Sphere
- Shadow Ball
- Vacuum Wave

Why it's bad
Nasty Plot Lucario looks pretty cool, at a glance. It has the only special priority in the game, Vacuum Wave, and Fighting + Ghost coverage has great neutral coverage. The problem is power. Aura Sphere's 80 BP is a little lackluster, and a base 115 Special Attack isn't very impressive either. On top of this, Shadow Ball doesn't actually break through any possible checks, as anything that isn't a Ghost or Psychic type ultimately doesn't care. Lucario's Speed truely ruins this set, though, as it is outrun by a huge portion of the offensive meta and is forced to use Vacuum Wave, where a 40 BP STAB doesn't cut it anymore.

Use this instead

Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Extreme Speed
- Ice Punch / Iron Tail / Crunch

Why it's better
Far more power is available with this set. Close Combat's 120 BP and Extreme Speed's 80 BP compensate for Lucario's slightly lower base 110 Attack, allowing it to blast through far more things then it could with a special set. Lucario also gets a few neat coverage options, allowing it to blast through Fairies with Iron Tail, smash bulky Grounds like Landorus-T with Ice Punch, or break down Psychics with Crunch. Additionally, the power boost that Extremespeed brings not only allows for it to work as a proper lategame cleaner, but it also opens up the option to run an Adamant nature, since it isn't relying on it's natural speed as much. Extremespeed also allows Lucario to outspeed opposing priority, like Talonflame's Brave Bird.

 

[firehusky]

Let's do a serious one about Lucario

Don't use this

Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Nasty Plot
- Aura Sphere
- Shadow Ball
- Vacuum Wave

Why it's bad
Nasty Plot Lucario looks pretty cool, at a glance. It has the only special priority in the game, Vacuum Wave, and Fighting + Ghost coverage has great neutral coverage. The problem is power. Aura Sphere's 90 BP is a little lackluster, and a base 115 Special Attack isn't very impressive either. On top of this, Shadow Ball doesn't actually break through any possible checks, as anything that isn't a Ghost or Psychic type ultimately doesn't care. Lucario's Speed truely ruins this set, though, as it is outrun by a huge portion of the offensive meta and is forced to use Vacuum Wave, where a 40 BP STAB doesn't cut it anymore.

Use this instead

Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Close Combat
- Extreme Speed
- Ice Punch / Iron Tail / Crunch

Why it's better
Far more power is available with this set. Close Combat's 120 BP and Extreme Speed's 80 BP compensate for Lucario's slightly lower base 110 Attack, allowing it to . Lucario also gets a few neat coverage options, allowing it to blast through Fairies with Iron Tail, smash bulky Grounds like Landorus-T with Ice Punch, or break down Psychics with Crunch. Additionally, the power boost that Extremespeed brings not only allows for it to work as a proper lategame cleaner and opens up the option to run an Adamant nature, it also allows Lucario to outspeed priority like Talonflame's Brave Bird.

iirc, Aura Sphere has 80 BP.

 

[Tressed]

iirc, Aura Sphere has 80 BP.

Whoops, it's really 80? That's depressing.

 

[Kurona]

Yeah, this is comparison where it's not suitable again. Mega Venusaur and standard Venusaur have completely different roles. Regular Venusaur should not be used on the basis of it being a relatively meh abuser of the sub-optimal weather offence known as Sun, Mega Venu is a stone-cold tank. If you're ever going to see a regular Venusaur in OU, then it's more than likely going to be holding a Life Orb and spamming Solar Beam in the Sun set by Charizard Y, or lord-forbid Ninetales, not the kind of shit you'd pull with a Mega Venu, it's a whole different ball game. Comparing those two is like judging between Megazard Y and X, they do different things entirely and are incomparable in any way barring their names.

As I've said on the SD Sceptile thing, I think it's a good idea to point out what role a Pokémon is good at, similar to the comparison between NP and SD Lucario above. This shows the person a way to use the Pokémon if they really wanted to - and let's face it, if they are this bad or starting out then they're likely using Pokémon based on the merit of it being their favourite - even if the role is completely different.
Of course, it should be made clear that the role is different and alternatives for the role they were trying to use it for should be offered as well.