Resource ORAS OU Teambuilding

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heatran.gif

Heatran @ Air Balloon
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 12 HP / 252 SpA / 244 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Flash Cannon / Earth Power
- Taunt / Will-O-Wisp / Toxic
- Stealth Rock

Role: Offensive Hazard Setter

What It Does: It sets hazards offensively. This set makes the most of Heatran's offensive and supportive potential and very effectively exploits his ability to beat most common Defoggers such as Lati@s, Zapdos, Mandibuzz and such. The EV spread could be run max SpA / max Spe if desired to outspeed opposing Heatran but additional bulk from remaining unnecessary EVs never hurt; 244 in speed allows it to outspeed Jolly Mega Heracross, Jolly Bisharp and Adamant Excadrill. The beauty of this set is how well it can set up hazards and take on anything that wants to clear them. Fire Blast is the most powerful STAB that allows it to take on Defoggers and make the most of Heatran's offensive prowess. Flash Cannon or Earth Power let it either take on Fairies as well as provide secondary STAB, or hit opposing Heatran and other Fire types hard. Any of the following supportive move is greatly beneficial to Heatran, in fact two supportive moves in place of a secondary attack is also a possible option; Taunt allows him to break stall and prevent Defogs, Will-O-Wisp cripples physical attackers and helps wear opposing Pokemon down, and Toxic helps to break through more defensive walls or Defoggers like Mandibuzz. Lastly, Stealth Rocks are Stealth Rocks, they need no explaining, every team needs them and Heatran provides them well.

Good Teammates: As an offensive Rock-setter, this Heatran is more at home on offensively oriented teams and as such pairs better with partners that have commendable offensive potential. While this Heatran set does posses temporary immunity to Ground, Fighting types such and Terrakion, Keldeo, Mega Lopunny, and such do still greatly threaten Heatran, Latios is a good answer to these threats as well as a potent threat against many fat Waters that cause Heatran some grief such as Rotom-W, Slowbro and such. Raikou can also help with the afore mentioned fat Waters, as well as Fighting threats if running Extrasensory. Venusaur is also a renown partner with Heatran with its great ability to handle most Water type threats that hurt Heatran.

What Counters It: Offensive Waters such as Assault Vest Azumarill, Keldeo, and Gyarados are great counters to Heatran, taking little damage from Heatran's offensive moves and having a very good chance to OHKO or get a solid 2HKO in return as well as not having to waste a turn to pop the Air Balloon to deal hard super effective damage, they are very good answers to the molten crawler. A special wall like Chansey can also threaten Heatran, dealing more damage with Seismic Toss than Heatran deals with Fire Blast as well as access to reliable recovery, albeit hinderable with Taunt. Fat Waters such as Quagsire, Slowbro and specially defensive Rotom-W are also great options due to the incredibly minimal damage they take from any offensive move this Heatran runs and being able to retaliate considerably hard in return. Assault Vest Conkeldurr is a great threat to Heatran taking little over 40% maximum damage from Fire Blast as well as having reliable recovery in Drain Punch to massively damage Heatran and Mach Punch to pick it off; Guts also pressures Heatran from spamming Will-O-Wisp or Toxic at risk of giving the opponent much greater offensive capabilities. Lastly, opposing Air Balloon can also counter eachother well, being immune to two possible attacks while the Air Balloon is in tact, and Flash Cannon being an agonising 9HKO; the downside to this counter is also how ineffectively you yourself can threaten an opposing Heatran with your own, however breaking the Balloon with Flash Cannon allowing it to be KOed by an Earthquake user on your team later is beneficial.

Any Additional Info: Ketchup.
 
Sanger Zonvolt said:
Technically yes, but it's a power I exercise very rarely, and if I put it in a role that the author didn't list, I'll explain why I put it in a different role in a post so that if people object to the change they can post their reasoning. As I said before, more often than not a mon's role can change in the middle of battle, so I usually don't nitpick about roles.


Just a few comments:
  • Make sure if you are going to list something as a wall, make sure to list it as a physical wall, special wall, or mixed wall as opposed to "stall"
  • In addition to what ThePack said about the HP Evs, I know that SubToxic Gliscor normally runs a lot more Speed EVs to outspeed stuff that would otherwise wreck this set such as max speed Mamoswine, unboosted Gyrados, stallbreaker Mew and Adamant SD Diggersby to name a few.
  • Your "Good Teammates" section and "What Counters It Section" are pretty blurred. There's nothing wrong with saying, "you should run teammates that can take out X", but it seems that in your Good Teammates section, for every one sentence you have mentioning good teammates you have 2 sentences explaining a hard counter. If possible, try and condense it so that it focuses more on the good teammates and less on the counters
  • For the "What Counters it" section, I would mention that anything that commonly carries Ice coverage or STAB can be a huge problem as opposed to just saying "Fighting types" since only Mega Lopunny, Conkeldurr and the occasional Lucario carry Ice Punch, and Hidden Power Ice is seen on a lot of mons as coverage. Also, I'd remove the reference to Latios because you shouldn't make any assumptions about what the player puts on his team in this section.
  • You have a lot of basic spelling and grammar errors. I don't want to be a grammar Nazi, but on average you have at least 1 every sentence.
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No the latios thing was a joke, my bad and i will change the grammatical issues ASAP. Well i put the information of the hard counters because i wanted to show an example of what the teammates would do to stop it. I will try and change the description in future posts. If you belive that the evs are wrong would you tell me what to change so can can change the evs in the set listed?
 
Renokiru said:
No the latios thing was a joke, my bad and i will change the grammatical issues ASAP. Well i put the information of the hard counters because i wanted to show an example of what the teammates would do to stop it. I will try and change the description in future posts. If you belive that the evs are wrong would you tell me what to change so can can change the evs in the set listed?
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I believe traditionally it runs 244 HP / 28 Def / 236 Spe, which lets it get a jump on the mons that I mentioned
 
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Volcarona @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 72 HP / 252 Def / 184 Spe
Bold Nature
- Fiery Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Roost
- Quiver Dance

Role: Bulky Set-up Sweeper

What is does: You finally got rid of that tyranitar with your keldeo and got rid of rocks with your defog latias(assuming you have these pokemon and your opponent has a tyranitar). Your ready to send out you volcarona. Opposing you is a bisharp. He boosts you boost. you are faster than him. He sucker punches you fiery dance you OHKO him and get the boost. Your opponent now knows that all hope is lost(except for a banded talonflame). This is what you will prabably do if you play volcarona correctly. After you kill the opponent, you go into volcarona, you set one or two quiver dances, you outspeed most the other team and bam you throw a couple fiery dances and get boosts and do damage. Then when you are at +6 you start nuking with bug buzz. You ask about priority but dont worry you have roost and then you can go back to sweeping. The evs are designed when you start quiver danceing and get hit by a physical attack you don't get OHKOed. The evs are so you take the least damage from stealth rock and enough speed to outspeed most of the opposing forces working against you. The defense evs and nature are so you don't take too much damage from physcial attackers. No special defensive and special attack investment is needed because it has excellent base stats for those two.

Good teamates: You are going to want to have a water, rock, and flying check. I recommend maybe an excadrill because one it can take away rocks which is SUPER DUPER helpful and rock slide which will kill those pesky flying types like talonflame or thunderous. Also you might want a bulky water type like azumarril so it can check opposing rock types like tyranitar. Also an additional fire type like heatran is recommended so you can OHKO hazard setter skarmory. Also you might want some wallbreakers to break walls like chansey. So good teammates for that are keldeo and landerous T. Because this isnt the most offensive set it would help if you could set up spikes and rocks, for example skarmory and heatran or tyranitar.

What it counters: Rock types. And stealth rocks. and talonflame. and water types. Let me elaborate, rock types such as excadrill, tyranitar and choice scarf terakion can and will OHKO this pokemon. Also buky water types and set-up sweepers / wallbreakers like M-gyrados, keldeo, azumarill and crawduant. Stealth rocks is a key hazard to easily kill a volcarona on the switch. Also mega diancie is a big problem that can desmolish this pokemon. Also status is not very helpful becuase consistent damage from the opponet and status will make your health go down very quickly will ethier make you die or unable to set-up and sweep.

Additional info: Volcarona looks like a legendary
 
Renokiru said:
tumblr_mxe563ypmm1rpn9eno2_250.gif

Volcarona @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 72 HP / 252 Def / 184 Spe
Bold Nature
- Fiery Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Roost
- Quiver Dance

Role: Bulky Set-up Sweeper

What is does: You finally got rid of that tyranitar with your keldeo and got rid of rocks with your defog latias(assuming you have these pokemon and your opponent has a tyranitar). Your ready to send out you volcarona. Opposing you is a bisharp. He boosts you boost. you are faster than him. He sucker punches you fiery dance you OHKO him and get the boost. Your opponent now knows that all hope is lost(except for a banded talonflame). This is what you will prabably do if you play volcarona correctly. After you kill the opponent, you go into volcarona, you set one or two quiver dances, you outspeed most the other team and bam you throw a couple fiery dances and get boosts and do damage. Then when you are at +6 you start nuking with bug buzz. You ask about priority but dont worry you have roost and then you can go back to sweeping. The evs are designed when you start quiver danceing and get hit by a physical attack you don't get OHKOed. The evs are so you take the least damage from stealth rock and enough speed to outspeed most of the opposing forces working against you. The defense evs and nature are so you don't take too much damage from physcial attackers. No special defensive and special attack investment is needed because it has excellent base stats for those two.

Good teamates: You are going to want to have a water, rock, and flying check. I recommend maybe an excadrill because one it can take away rocks which is SUPER DUPER helpful and rock slide which will kill those pesky flying types like talonflame or thunderous. Also you might want a bulky water type like azumarril so it can check opposing rock types like tyranitar. Also an additional fire type like heatran is recommended so you can OHKO hazard setter skarmory. Also you might want some wallbreakers to break walls like chansey. So good teammates for that are keldeo and landerous T. Because this isnt the most offensive set it would help if you could set up spikes and rocks, for example skarmory and heatran or tyranitar.

What it counters: Rock types. And stealth rocks. and talonflame. and water types. Let me elaborate, rock types such as excadrill, tyranitar and choice scarf terakion can and will OHKO this pokemon. Also buky water types and set-up sweepers / wallbreakers like M-gyrados, keldeo, azumarill and crawduant. Stealth rocks is a key hazard to easily kill a volcarona on the switch. Also mega diancie is a big problem that can desmolish this pokemon. Also status is not very helpful becuase consistent damage from the opponet and status will make your health go down very quickly will ethier make you die or unable to set-up and sweep.

Additional info: Volcarona looks like a legendary
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Nice, but Volc is already taken, unfortunately. Also, look at your grammar and spelling more often. It's quite hard to digest tbh. Also, I'll drop Magneton so others can have a go. Maybe I'll take on Stallbreaker Heatran if I can.
 
Der Twist said:
talonflame.gif

Talonflame @ Choice Band
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- U-turn
- Roost / Sleep Talk / Tailwind

Role: Revenge Killer

What It Does: Spam Brave Bird, pretty much. Boasting arguably the best priority in the OR/AS metagame in Gale Wings Brave Bird, Banded Talonflame has established itself as one of the most potent revengers around thanks to speed and raw power. Sent in after one of your Pokemon faints, it's his job to finish off whatever opposing Pokemon was responsible. Brave Bird everything, it needs no introduction, a base 120 priority STAB move from an Adamant Choice Banded Pokemon with full investment in speed which in its own right stands at base 126, it's pretty self explanatory: It hits bloody hard and bloody fast, it's what makes it so good at its job. Brave Bird was made for that thing. Now suppose there was something Brave Bird just couldn't do enough to, like say Ferrothorn, Scizor, Bisharp or whatever, what then? STAB Flare Blitz is here to help. Being able to OHKO all of the afore mentioned mons, it can get the edge over some Pokemon that Brave Bird just misses the mark on. Not priority, true, but fully invested base 126 speed is not slow, even from Adamant. For what you need it for, it gets the job done. So you send out your Talonflame after whatever mon you lost fell to revenge the opposing threat but they still have a Rotom-W or a Heatran or whatever left, U-Turn can help with that. With how massive the offensive presence is on this thing, odds are you're going to be forcing more than a few switches, Talonflame can function as a nice offensive pivot to put the match-up back in your favour, it's good utility and Talonflame uses it effectively. Lastly, it's pretty much filler, you're probably not going to be using anything outside of the first three moves but if you are then there's a choice of the following to pick: Roost for sustainability allowing you to roll back your recoil damage but kind of losing your momentum because of Band, Sleep Talk specifically for Spore or Sleep Powder users like Amoongus, Mega Venusaur and that dumbass Breloom, and lastly Tailwind can offer your team support to help sweep opposing teams without needing to worry too much about those Scarfers they have there.

Good Teammates: Fire/Flying does not appreciate Stealth Rocks, you're going to need someone to clear those for you or you're going to have a bad time. Latios is generally a decent option, being a powerful special cannon to compliment Talonflame's physical prowess, no common weaknesses between the two, they're not the tightest knit core ever but they work well together. Talonflame works very nicely in F/W/G cores as that often does provide the support to remove Talonflame's counters and checks; for example, Keldeo can very nicely handle Landorus, Tyranitar, and Heatran who can all wall Talonflame, and Mega Venusaur can threaten fat Waters who Talonflame may have trouble breaking through like Rotom-W, Slowbro, Quagsire and such.

What Counters It: Bulky Waters are a great way to counter Talonflame, Rotom-W and Slowbro are some great examples, taking little over 30% damage at most from Talonflame and having the potential to OHKO in return. Tyranitar is a superb answer to Talonflame too, any variant is effective, the most defensive supportive variant takes little over 20% damage from Brave Bird or Flare Blitz and can 2HKO effectively, some more offensive variants take between 30-40% and can OHKO. U-Turn does the most damage to Tyranitar but only little over 50% to offensive variants and not even half to the more defensive. Defensive Lanrodrus-T is effective against Talonflame too due to Intimidate lowering Talonflame's attack, this allows him to take between 30-40% from Talonflame's most powerful attacks and OHKO in return. Heatran counters Talonflame effectively too, being immune to one STAB and offensive variants taking around 40% from a Brave Bird at most, defensive ones even less, they can often comfortably handle Talonflame, especially if they have Stone Edge or Ancient Power to retaliate.

Any Additional Info: I'm just going to reiterate this again because I've seen this not done so many times and its painful. Run Talonflame on a team with hazard removal support. A Choiced Pokemon 4x weak to Stealth Rocks and who's most notable offences cause him to take recoil damage would mean your Talonflame is going to last about 5 seconds without cleared hazards. You need hazard removal or your Talon's going to be deep-throating Stealth Cocks long enough to lose him 50% of his HP just from switching in; that's obscene, no one wants to see that. Play smart: Use Defog, use Rapid Spin. Oh, and don't ever run Life Orb either to try and switch your moves around, at that point the double dose of recoil from Life Orb and your STAB attacks will wear you down before you can even use Roost to heal up anyway; Life Orb is one of the worst things a Talonflame can hold.
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Steel Wing should probably be slashed in the last slot with everything else, since it lets you revenge Mega Diancie.
 
Renokiru said:
tumblr_mxe563ypmm1rpn9eno2_250.gif

Volcarona @ Leftovers
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 72 HP / 252 Def / 184 Spe
Bold Nature
- Fiery Dance
- Bug Buzz
- Roost
- Quiver Dance

Role: Bulky Set-up Sweeper

What is does: You finally got rid of that tyranitar with your keldeo and got rid of rocks with your defog latias(assuming you have these pokemon and your opponent has a tyranitar). Your ready to send out you volcarona. Opposing you is a bisharp. He boosts you boost. you are faster than him. He sucker punches you fiery dance you OHKO him and get the boost. Your opponent now knows that all hope is lost(except for a banded talonflame). This is what you will prabably do if you play volcarona correctly. After you kill the opponent, you go into volcarona, you set one or two quiver dances, you outspeed most the other team and bam you throw a couple fiery dances and get boosts and do damage. Then when you are at +6 you start nuking with bug buzz. You ask about priority but dont worry you have roost and then you can go back to sweeping. The evs are designed when you start quiver danceing and get hit by a physical attack you don't get OHKOed. The evs are so you take the least damage from stealth rock and enough speed to outspeed most of the opposing forces working against you. The defense evs and nature are so you don't take too much damage from physcial attackers. No special defensive and special attack investment is needed because it has excellent base stats for those two.

Good teamates: You are going to want to have a water, rock, and flying check. I recommend maybe an excadrill because one it can take away rocks which is SUPER DUPER helpful and rock slide which will kill those pesky flying types like talonflame or thunderous. Also you might want a bulky water type like azumarril so it can check opposing rock types like tyranitar. Also an additional fire type like heatran is recommended so you can OHKO hazard setter skarmory. Also you might want some wallbreakers to break walls like chansey. So good teammates for that are keldeo and landerous T. Because this isnt the most offensive set it would help if you could set up spikes and rocks, for example skarmory and heatran or tyranitar.

What it counters: Rock types. And stealth rocks. and talonflame. and water types. Let me elaborate, rock types such as excadrill, tyranitar and choice scarf terakion can and will OHKO this pokemon. Also buky water types and set-up sweepers / wallbreakers like M-gyrados, keldeo, azumarill and crawduant. Stealth rocks is a key hazard to easily kill a volcarona on the switch. Also mega diancie is a big problem that can desmolish this pokemon. Also status is not very helpful becuase consistent damage from the opponet and status will make your health go down very quickly will ethier make you die or unable to set-up and sweep.

Additional info: Volcarona looks like a legendary
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While you did technically do the bulky set-up version, I'm not entirely sure how viable it is anymore. I know it's in the XY dex, but I know in the revamped analysis it's not even mentioned. If it gets more support I'll put it in, but I'm going to hold off for now.
 
Sanger Zonvolt said:
While you did technically do the bulky set-up version, I'm not entirely sure how viable it is anymore. I know it's in the XY dex, but I know in the revamped analysis it's not even mentioned. If it gets more support I'll put it in, but I'm going to hold off for now.
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The main issues with the bulky set are that it's slow enough to let Scarf Lando-T revenge it if it only gets one boost and it loses out on a lot of power.

+1 252 SpA Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Landorus-T: 331-390 (86.6 - 102%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
+1 0 SpA Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Landorus-T: 274-324 (71.7 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Plus yeah it probably isn't viable.
 
Sanger Zonvolt said:
While you did technically do the bulky set-up version, I'm not entirely sure how viable it is anymore. I know it's in the XY dex, but I know in the revamped analysis it's not even mentioned. If it gets more support I'll put it in, but I'm going to hold off for now.
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okay
Karxrida said:
The main issues with the bulky set are that it's slow enough to let Scarf Lando-T revenge it if it only gets one boost and it loses out on a lot of power.
+1 252 SpA Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Landorus-T: 331-390 (86.6 - 102%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
+1 0 SpA Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 8 SpD Landorus-T: 274-324 (71.7 - 84.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Plus yeah it probably isn't viable.
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it is pretty viable with the right support, mabye 2 pokes one to get rid of rocks and a water/flying check
 
talonflame.gif

Talonflame @ Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Will-O-Wisp / Taunt
- Bulk Up


Role: Bulky Set-up Sweeper

What It Does: It sets up and sweeps bulkily. Bulkily is a word now. This is a Talonflame set more oriented towards the Semi-Stall or Bulky Offensive spectrum in comparison to its full offensive SD counterpart, BU Talonflame works along the principal of take hits, cripple threats and set up a lot and is a less focused around the conservation of offensive momentum like Band or SD which aim to clear fields quickly and apply constant pressure. 248 HP and max SpD with Careful give it maximum specially defensive potential as its physical defence can be supported with Will-O-Wisp and Bulk Up, so special investment gives it the most all-around defensive potential; it also keeps its HP at an odd value as a Stealth Rock number. The remaining 8 go in speed because it's a fucking Talonflame and it lives for speed. Brave Bird is mandatory on any Talonflame set, very powerful STAB priority thanks to Gale Wings, it does make you take recoil but don't try and bypass it with shit like Aerial Ace or Sitrus Berry Acrobatics, Talonflame is not the hardest hitter ever especially without an offensive nature and no Atk investment so Aerial Ace will have you hitting like a we towel until you're at +6 which is more effort than it's worth and is just begging for a crit to kill you, and Sitrus Berry doesn't offer the lasting passive recovery which makes Leftovers so good for it; like it or not, you're running Brave Bird. Roost is reliable recovery to help roll back recoil damage and allows you to take more hits and get up more Bulk Ups. Some support to make Talonflame nice and annoying, Will-O-Wisp can catch physically offensive threats that come in like Landorus and whatnot and cripple them so you can set up more and generally reduce their effectiveness throughout the match, Taunt is good for defensive switch-ins keeping them from recovering HP or trying to Toxic you. Lastly, Bulk Up is the move of the set, boosting your Atk and Def by 1 letting you take hits and dish them out much better. While it's not the renown herald of perfection and ender of days like its revered SD counterpart, BU Talonflame is a great option to consider for any bulky offensive team.

Good Teammates: 4x weak to Rocks, you need hazard removal. The traditional Lati@s options are always ones to consider due to their relatively good synergy and special offensive prowess compared to Talonflame's physical. Odds are Latias will be the more preferred option to maintain the bulky offensive theme but either work depending on the team. Mega Venusaur is a good partner with its bulk and ability to effectively handle most fat Waters that threaten Talonflame as well as others such as T-Tar and Hippowdon and checking most Electric threats to Talonflame. A Calm Minding Water type, such as Suicune and Mega Slowbro, who pretty much function as a reverse Talonflame is a good option too due to how well they support eachother, with Talonflame effectively removing their Grass checks and them handling Talonflame's Rock and Ground checks they make an effective bulky set-up pair.

What Counters It: Landorus-T, offensive variants in particular, can hurt Bulk Up Talonflame a lot, even when Burned Scarfed Landorus-T does have a very small chance to OHKO Talonflame and the Atk drop from Intimidate will leave your Talonflame doing pitiful damage. Heatran and Mega Diancie are good counters too, being immune to Will-O-Wisp and taking less than 25% damage unboosted, they can wall Talonflame well and threaten it greatly with Stone Edge or Diamond Storm. Fat Waters such as Rotom-W and Mega Slowbro can also also threaten Talonflame due to the pitiful damage they take even from +1 and their ability to 2HKO in return. Threats such as Tyranitar, Hippowdon, and Garchomp also take minimal damage from Talonflame and do have potential to 2HKO, though Burning them can help limit their lifespans and potentially wear them down before they break through you.

Any Additional Info: I'm just going to reiterate this again because I've seen this not done so many times and its painful. Run Talonflame on a team with hazard removal support. A Pokemon 4x weak to Stealth Rocks and who's most notable offences cause him to take recoil damage would mean your Talonflame is going to last about 5 seconds without cleared hazards. You need hazard removal or your Talon's going to be deep-throating Stealth Cocks long enough to lose him 50% of his HP just from switching in; that's obscene, no one wants to see that. Play smart: Use Defog, use Rapid Spin. Run Brave Bird too and stop trying to be clever and avoid the recoil; life isn't fair, get used to it, you need the power or you'll fail to break through teams.
 
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Der Twist said:
talonflame.gif

Talonflame @ Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Will-O-Wisp / Taunt
- Bulk Up


Role: Bulky Set-up Sweeper

What It Does: It sets up and sweeps bulkily. Bulkily is a word now. This is a Talonflame set more oriented towards the Semi-Stall or Bulky Offensive spectrum in comparison to its full offensive SD counterpart, BU Talonflame works along the principal of take hits, cripple threats and set up a lot and is a less focused around the conservation of offensive momentum like Band or SD which aim to clear fields quickly and apply constant pressure. 248 HP and max SpD with Careful give it maximum specially defensive potential as its physical defence can be supported with Will-O-Wisp and Bulk Up, so special investment gives it the most all-around defensive potential; it also keeps its HP at an odd value as a Stealth Rock number. The remaining 8 go in speed because it's a fucking Talonflame and it lives for speed. Brave Bird is mandatory on any Talonflame set, very powerful STAB priority thanks to Gale Wings, it does make you take recoil but don't try and bypass it with shit like Aerial Ace or Sitrus Berry Acrobatics, Talonflame is not the hardest hitter ever especially without an offensive nature and no Atk investment so Aerial Ace will have you hitting like a we towel until you're at +6 which is more effort than it's worth and is just begging for a crit to kill you, and Sitrus Berry doesn't offer the lasting passive recovery which makes Leftovers so good for it; like it or not, you're running Brave Bird. Roost is reliable recovery to help roll back recoil damage and allows you to take more hits and get up more Bulk Ups. Some support to make Talonflame nice and annoying, Will-O-Wisp can catch physically offensive threats that come in like Landorus and whatnot and cripple them so you can set up more and generally reduce their effectiveness throughout the match, Taunt is good for defensive switch-ins keeping them from recovering HP or trying to Toxic you. Lastly, Bulk Up is the move of the set, boosting your Atk and Def by 1 letting you take hits and dish them out much better. While it's not the renown herald of perfection and ender of days like its revered SD counterpart, BU Talonflame is a great option to consider for any bulky offensive team.

Good Teammates: 4x weak to Rocks, you need hazard removal. The traditional Lati@s options are always ones to consider due to their relatively good synergy and special offensive prowess compared to Talonflame's physical. Odds are Latias will be the more preferred option to maintain the bulky offensive theme but either work depending on the team. Mega Venusaur is a good partner with its bulk and ability to effectively handle most fat Waters that threaten Talonflame as well as others such as T-Tar and Hippowdon and checking most Electric threats to Talonflame. A Calm Minding Water type, such as Suicune and Mega Slowbro, who pretty much function as a reverse Talonflame is a good option too due to how well they support eachother, with Talonflame effectively removing their Grass checks and them handling Talonflame's Rock and Ground checks they make an effective bulky set-up pair.

What Counters It: Landorus-T, offensive variants in particular, can hurt Bulk Up Talonflame a lot, even when Burned Scarfed Landorus-T does have a very small chance to OHKO Talonflame and the Atk drop from Intimidate will leave your Talonflame doing pitiful damage. Heatran and Mega Diancie are good counters too, being immune to Will-O-Wisp and taking less than 25% damage unboosted, they can wall Talonflame well and threaten it greatly with Stone Edge or Diamond Storm. Fat Waters such as Rotom-W and Mega Slowbro can also also threaten Talonflame due to the pitiful damage they take even from +1 and their ability to 2HKO in return. Threats such as Tyranitar, Hippowdon, and Garchomp also take minimal damage from Talonflame and do have potential to 2HKO, though Burning them can help limit their lifespans and potentially wear them down before they break through you.

Any Additional Info: I'm just going to reiterate this again because I've seen this not done so many times and its painful. Run Talonflame on a team with hazard removal support. A Choiced Pokemon 4x weak to Stealth Rocks and who's most notable offences cause him to take recoil damage would mean your Talonflame is going to last about 5 seconds without cleared hazards. You need hazard removal or your Talon's going to be deep-throating Stealth Cocks long enough to lose him 50% of his HP just from switching in; that's obscene, no one wants to see that. Play smart: Use Defog, use Rapid Spin. Run Brave Bird too and stop trying to be clever and avoid the recoil; life isn't fair, get used to it, you need the power or you'll fail to break through teams.
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Nice analysis but swords dance is better than bulk up on spedef Talonflame in the current meta, I'd at least slash it with bulk up
 
Der Twist said:
talonflame.gif

Talonflame @ Leftovers
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Careful Nature
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Will-O-Wisp / Taunt
- Bulk Up


Role: Bulky Set-up Sweeper

What It Does: It sets up and sweeps bulkily. Bulkily is a word now. This is a Talonflame set more oriented towards the Semi-Stall or Bulky Offensive spectrum in comparison to its full offensive SD counterpart, BU Talonflame works along the principal of take hits, cripple threats and set up a lot and is a less focused around the conservation of offensive momentum like Band or SD which aim to clear fields quickly and apply constant pressure. 248 HP and max SpD with Careful give it maximum specially defensive potential as its physical defence can be supported with Will-O-Wisp and Bulk Up, so special investment gives it the most all-around defensive potential; it also keeps its HP at an odd value as a Stealth Rock number. The remaining 8 go in speed because it's a fucking Talonflame and it lives for speed. Brave Bird is mandatory on any Talonflame set, very powerful STAB priority thanks to Gale Wings, it does make you take recoil but don't try and bypass it with shit like Aerial Ace or Sitrus Berry Acrobatics, Talonflame is not the hardest hitter ever especially without an offensive nature and no Atk investment so Aerial Ace will have you hitting like a we towel until you're at +6 which is more effort than it's worth and is just begging for a crit to kill you, and Sitrus Berry doesn't offer the lasting passive recovery which makes Leftovers so good for it; like it or not, you're running Brave Bird. Roost is reliable recovery to help roll back recoil damage and allows you to take more hits and get up more Bulk Ups. Some support to make Talonflame nice and annoying, Will-O-Wisp can catch physically offensive threats that come in like Landorus and whatnot and cripple them so you can set up more and generally reduce their effectiveness throughout the match, Taunt is good for defensive switch-ins keeping them from recovering HP or trying to Toxic you. Lastly, Bulk Up is the move of the set, boosting your Atk and Def by 1 letting you take hits and dish them out much better. While it's not the renown herald of perfection and ender of days like its revered SD counterpart, BU Talonflame is a great option to consider for any bulky offensive team.

Good Teammates: 4x weak to Rocks, you need hazard removal. The traditional Lati@s options are always ones to consider due to their relatively good synergy and special offensive prowess compared to Talonflame's physical. Odds are Latias will be the more preferred option to maintain the bulky offensive theme but either work depending on the team. Mega Venusaur is a good partner with its bulk and ability to effectively handle most fat Waters that threaten Talonflame as well as others such as T-Tar and Hippowdon and checking most Electric threats to Talonflame. A Calm Minding Water type, such as Suicune and Mega Slowbro, who pretty much function as a reverse Talonflame is a good option too due to how well they support eachother, with Talonflame effectively removing their Grass checks and them handling Talonflame's Rock and Ground checks they make an effective bulky set-up pair.

What Counters It: Landorus-T, offensive variants in particular, can hurt Bulk Up Talonflame a lot, even when Burned Scarfed Landorus-T does have a very small chance to OHKO Talonflame and the Atk drop from Intimidate will leave your Talonflame doing pitiful damage. Heatran and Mega Diancie are good counters too, being immune to Will-O-Wisp and taking less than 25% damage unboosted, they can wall Talonflame well and threaten it greatly with Stone Edge or Diamond Storm. Fat Waters such as Rotom-W and Mega Slowbro can also also threaten Talonflame due to the pitiful damage they take even from +1 and their ability to 2HKO in return. Threats such as Tyranitar, Hippowdon, and Garchomp also take minimal damage from Talonflame and do have potential to 2HKO, though Burning them can help limit their lifespans and potentially wear them down before they break through you.

Any Additional Info: I'm just going to reiterate this again because I've seen this not done so many times and its painful. Run Talonflame on a team with hazard removal support. A Choiced Pokemon 4x weak to Stealth Rocks and who's most notable offences cause him to take recoil damage would mean your Talonflame is going to last about 5 seconds without cleared hazards. You need hazard removal or your Talon's going to be deep-throating Stealth Cocks long enough to lose him 50% of his HP just from switching in; that's obscene, no one wants to see that. Play smart: Use Defog, use Rapid Spin. Run Brave Bird too and stop trying to be clever and avoid the recoil; life isn't fair, get used to it, you need the power or you'll fail to break through teams.
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Agreeing with this since SD allows it to break Mega Sableye. You should probably also mention that this set is an effective Stallbreaker since the set is nearly identical to the Stallbreaker set.
 
Bulk Up stops you from getting demolished by every non Toxic, Foul Play using M-Sableye in existence considering its utility set (M-Sableye's) is really good in the meta right now, plus you still break it in the end. The SD slash would be fine but generally it's not a huge issue especially considering you're not even running enough speed to hit stuff like Raikou with a Flare Blitz after SD, due to the nature of the set. A mention would be fine but SD is pretty weird on a set that's suppose to be a bulkier win con for TFlame in the first place.
 
I thought the SD set already had an analysis done for it? If not then I'd be alright doing a separate one for that too, I'm not sure about slashing it on this one for the reasons AM mentioned. If it's any consolation, I did mention a few times that SD is generally considered the better set. I also wasn't sure what to do about stallbreaker Talonflame because they really are the same thing more or less, wasn't sure if it deserved a different analysis entirely or whether I could just slash Taunt after BU but that might cause complications in role and whatnot.
 
Der Twist said:
I thought the SD set already had an analysis done for it? If not then I'd be alright doing a separate one for that too, I'm not sure about slashing it on this one for the reasons AM mentioned. If it's any consolation, I did mention a few times that SD is generally considered the better set. I also wasn't sure what to do about stallbreaker Talonflame because they really are the same thing more or less, wasn't sure if it deserved a different analysis entirely or whether I could just slash Taunt after BU but that might cause complications in role and whatnot.
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No, the SD Sweeper set is a little different. The SD thing was my bad since I had looked over the revamped analysis for the stall breaker set, which does list SD. However, the set you listed is definitely different from the SD Sweeper set, which we do have. All in all your set is fine; I'll have it up in a bit. I'll likely list it under the Stall Breakers since, while this set can sweep against offense, it's honestly close enough to the stall breaker set that I don't think it's worth it having someone do another write-up for the stall breaker set.
 
heatran.gif

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 248 HP / 192 SpD / 68 Spe
Calm Nature
- Lava Plume
- Earth Power / Flash Cannon / Protect
- Toxic / Taunt / Roar
- Stealth Rock

Role: Special Wall and Hazard Setter

What It Does: It sets hazards and walls specially. The Heatran variant preferred for many balanced teams with its ability to check brutal wallbreakers such as Mega Gardevoir and MegaZard-Y who are very threatening to the balanced playstyle due to their sheer power. The speed investment allows it to outspeed most variants of Suicune and Mega Venu, 248 HP for bulk and an odd HP value to minimise entry hazard damage and the rest in SpD because it's a special wall and you need SpD investment to be a good special wall (the more you know). SpD Heatran generally run two guaranteed moves in Stealth Rock and Lava Plume, Stealth Rocks help wear opposing teams down, break Sturdy and Sashes, limit switching opportunities and are generally a must-have move on any team, and Lava Plume is good STAB with a chance to Burn which is nice. The last two moves can be any combination of what you see above, Earth Power for other Heatran and Fire types like Zard-X and whatnot, Flash Cannon as secondary STAB to hurt mainly Fairies like Mega Gardevoir, Toxic to wear down opposing walls and limit the tame a sweeper can stay in and hurt you, Protect in conjunction with Toxic to Toxic stall as well as scout and possibly send Mega Lop crashing from HJK miss, Taunt prevents opposing recovery and set-up, and lastly Roar can help force out a threat or obvious switch-in and also help wear teams down with hazard damage. It has good utility and pretty effective for checking those generally hard to manage threats.

Good Teammates: The Venu-Tran core is a pretty renown core with how well they synergise together, Mega Venu can remove those fat Grounds and Waters that cause Heatran some grief while Tran handles opposing Scizors, Ferrothorns and possibly Fire threats if running Earth Power to help Venu. A fat Water of your own also pairs well, ideally something more physically defensive to compliment Heatran's specially defensive capabilities, mons like Slowbro, Rotom-W and Suicune are great for the job as they also remove annoying Grounds like Gliscor and Landorus who even Venu might have trouble with while Heatran helps remove their Grass checks. Chesnaught is gaining popularity too as a great Heatran partner, offering Spikes support on top of Heatran's Stealth Rocks as well as being a good physically defensive pair to Heatran's specially bulky presence allowing them to form a tight core.

What Counters It: Fat Grounds such as Gliscor, Hippowdon and Landorus-T are good answers to Heatran, taking little from all of Heatran's moves and easily threatening the OHKO with Earthquake, they shut Heatran down effectively so long as Lava Plume doesn't Burn them. Fat Waters such as Suicune, Quagsire, Slowbro and such are also great answers to Heatran with how miserably Heatran can hit them as well as their ability to recover HP more than just passively, Taunt on Heatran can lessen this issue, but that ultimately won't save you from taking good damage yourself. Offensive Waters like Keldeo and Azumarill are good answers too thanks to how little they take from all three moves, Keldeo can even set up a Sub and get some Calm Mind boosts, especially if Hearan isn't running Earth Power which is the only move which can break a Keldeo Sub before set-up; Azumarill can threaten the immense damage due to incredible physically offensive prowess, but it too isn't happy about being Burned. Assault Vest Conkeldurr doesn't even have the threat of Burn hanging over him thanks to Guts, it would be a great turn for him to switch into a Heatran, takea laughable 25% from Lava Plume and then get Burned to power his offences up to epic proportions, poor Tran wouldn't stand a chance.

Any Additional Info: I ate some toast for breakfast.
 
Renokiru said:
why did you do two heatrans?
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Their EV spreads and how they are used are different enough to merit two different write-ups. If you look through the OP there are many instances of the same mon being listed multiple times with different sets because the sets themselves play out very differently from each other.
 
I honestly dont agree, a cosmic power, moonlight(to stay in line with somogons(no soft boiled) statndeds) stored power charge beam leftovers is totally relible and viable
 
Cosmic Power on Clefable is a pretty bad set because it lacks power and allows pokemon to set up on Clefable (if magic guard) or cancel it out with status (unaware) On the Unaware set Calm Mind is prefered to boost your SpA which helps you winning 1v1 battles vs. other CM users like Raikou and MG Clefable. With Cosmic Power you can't accomplish this because you won't be able to break through Raikou / Clefable / Slowbro with a +0 Moonblast and once they discovered you are Unaware with Cosmic Power, the opponent can simply shut you down by switching out and crippling you with status, as where CM Unaware Clefable prevents this because it has the threat of a +2 or +3 Moonblast hitting the status inducer.
 
There have been more than enough arguments for why CP Clef is an overall terrible idea in multiple threads, not to wave around my non-existent authority, but we don't really need to bring it here too. CP Clef is just not a good idea and not something to recommend for teambuilding, quite the contrary.
 
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