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Resource ORAS OU Simple Questions, Simple Answers (Read the OP First!)
- Thread starter ginganinja
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There's no real need. The only thing that uses it is Togekiss, and its lack of speed means that it has to use it on something that's paralysed or something incredibly slow, which means that it crumbles against faster, more offensive teams. We are a competitive site, but contrary to popular belief we really only ban annoying stuff that is damaging the meta, hence why you can use Brightpowder Sand Veil Garchomp if you really want.
EDIT: Okay, forgot about Jirachi, but even then base speed 100 isn't what it used to be and just about any Ground Type can switch in, threaten it out and not worry as much about death by paraflinch. As I said, unless we see SwagPlay levels of hax-based nonsense there's no real reason to ban Serene Grace
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Jirachi?
EDIT: Well to answer your question, there's really only one good user of Serene Grace and that's Jirachi. It's nothing compared to stuff like Swagger, which there are tons of good abusers, such as Thundurus, Liepard, Klefki, Quagsire etc.
Serene Grace Iron Head only has a 40% chance to flinch, and it's not like you can 6-0 a team with that. Most teams pack a way of dealing with Rachi (a Steel-type resist, something that outspeeds it and can hit it hard etc.), and it's not as haxy as you think.
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Main reason I'd say is because while Hax isn't fun, Serene grace still isn't necessarily consistent. Swagger was suspected and banned because with Prankster users, Klefki in particular, it would consistently be used before the opponent could attack, and even without Confusion self-damage, Klefki could exploit Foul Play for easy damage. Since Swagger affected every OU viable Mon, SwagPlay didn't require an ability to read the opponent to use against them and win.
Serene Grace, while it does increase hax chance, still doesn't guarantee anything, so it's not necessarily a strategy that can be relied on solely. There's also just no meta-deficient users of the ability the way SwagPlay had Klefki, who's become a more balanced support mon when played without it.
The issue with that is that the loss of speed would make him slower than a lot threats with of Base Speed 100, such as Jolly M-ZardX, Timid M-ZardY and Timid Mega Gardevoir. That's not to say that it wouldn't be worth trying out, but it's a risk you should be aware of when testing.
To be fair, aren't some Zard-Y and Gardevoir's starting to run Modest since they mainly do Wallbreaking anyway? Zard-X might be a noteworthy new threat, true.
Pinsir I think might have a better shot lasting with Adamant than some others because of his access to powerful STAB priority. With Rocks up it's at least not auto-losing
252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Charizard Y: 130-154 (43.7 - 51.8%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Quick Attack vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Mega Gardevoir: 147-174 (53 - 62.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Pinsir, to my understanding, tends to be played as a Wallbreaker with late-game sweep/cleaning potential thanks to Quick Attack, which Adamant arguably lends itself favorably to.
Like I said, I think it would be worth trying out. I just thought I'd note the risk running Adamant over Jolly, though it could be the case that the reward outweighs the risk. As you said, the threats I mentioned aren't exactly free switch-ins. I was thinking more along the lines of the worse-case scenario where Pinsir would have to Revenge kill them or they try and revenge kill Mega Pinsir, though admittedly since these scenarios are preventable, it may not be a huge deal
XY probably Lando-T, Keldeo and Char-X, BW2 Rain offense, ORAS M-Meta and M-Sab, BW Excadrill, Don't know enough about DPP or RSE, RBY Psychics, especially Alakazam, and GSC Snorlax.
Check out Ruin of Alph. There's a ton of information there. As far as my opinion (probs overlaps with ForumBeta):
XY: Aegislash, then Lando-T I guess.
BW: Terrakion early on, then Sun for a time, then Rain offense later. Politoed overall I guess.
DP: TTar or Heatran, with Scizor making waves after Plat.
RS: Tyranitar
GSC: Snorlax
RBY: Tauros
This is just stuff I've picked up on and is by no means fact.
Your set is good, but I'd personally prefer Leftovers over Damp Rock on it; the passive recovery is very useful. With that said, Damp Rock isn't bad, since it gives you a larger window for spamming Scald and Rest.
I honestly just noticed that it was gone, but if I had to guess they got rid of it because it was a dead forum. The last meaningful thread in there that saw activity was basically a discussion between 3 users on why we didn't consider banning Protean. I'm not sure if there was more behind it than that. That being said, did we store the Speed Tier thread somewhere? That was an incredibly useful resource.
i copied down the speed tiers so here's that if you'd like. http://pastebin.com/tbCnzNq8
i would also like to ask smth. what are some checks to diancie?
It comes up when I search for the thread in this OU sub-forum
http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/oras-ou-speed-tiers.3527024/
So I can only assume it was moved here and is buried since there wasn't much discussion on it lately. Tbh it should probably be pinned and maybe locked.
Mega Venusaur, Amoonguss, Diancie, Scizor, Mega Scizor, Mega Slowbro, Bronzong, Landorus-T, Mega Metagross, Chansey, Tangrowth, Celebi, Magnezone, Magneton, Cresselia, Hippowdon, Excadrill
Scarf Rachi too.
SpDef Jirachi works too because it can stay healthy with Wish
I also brought this up a few weeks ago but the post became ignored so I''ll post it again. What are your thoughts about this spread?
Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Spe
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
Rotom-Wash started running 44 Spe EVs because of Jolly BD Azumarill, but since no one uses Jolly Azumarill nowadays, this spread seems better in my opinion. The only pokemon you miss out on are Adamant Crawdaunt, Modest Magnezone and -1 Jolly Victini. The extra bulk helps Rotom a lot when switchin into pokemon like Azumarill or Talonflame and you only lose a speed matchup in 3 pretty uncommon situations. A more common situation is when you face another 0 Spe EVs Rotom-W. 30 Spe IVs helps you here because you get the slow volt switch versus those Rotom-Washes and you still outspeed stuff like Mega Venusaur, Mandibuzz and -1 Victini (Adamant)
SpDef Jirachi works too because it can stay healthy with Wish
I also brought this up a few weeks ago but the post became ignored so I''ll post it again. What are your thoughts about this spread?
Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Spe
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
Rotom-Wash started running 44 Spe EVs because of Jolly BD Azumarill, but since no one uses Jolly Azumarill nowadays, this spread seems better in my opinion. The only pokemon you miss out on are Adamant Crawdaunt, Modest Magnezone and -1 Jolly Victini. The extra bulk helps Rotom a lot when switchin into pokemon like Azumarill or Talonflame and you only lose a speed matchup in 3 pretty uncommon situations. A more common situation is when you face another 0 Spe EVs Rotom-W. 30 Spe IVs helps you here because you get the slow volt switch versus those Rotom-Washes and you still outspeed stuff like Mega Venusaur, Mandibuzz and -1 Victini (Adamant)
actually the main reason we run 44 spe is to outspeed defensive lando before it u-turns out :)
Defensive lando-t runs 8 spe EVs (at least I do and the analysis does too)
8 Speed is to outrun Modest Magnezone, I think.
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