To an extent it has been overshadowed by Raikou as an electric type, Raikou being way more viable in nearly every scenario. The number of shed shell ferrothorns have gone up by 1.1%, not a huge difference but that's a good number as the stats take lower level and higher level play. Shed shell Skarmory has however gone down 1.2%. The only set Magnezone can run well is choice specs trapper, and that can be easy played around. It doesn't have crazy bulk of special attack, not to mention its speed. It still does the exact same thing, but it does feel like it's on a decline. Not to mention gothitelle is a serperior trapper, but that's just my opinion.
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Other ORAS Metagame Discussion
- Thread starter alexwolf
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Actually I feel like Magnezone still plays a big role in OU and is still there because of its huge niche and the reason why its even in OU. Its ability to fill many cores is ridiculous with dragons (trapping steels and beating fairies) and other key mons and eliminating key mons for the opponent. Gothitelle may trap more things but in the end, Gothitelle isn't able kill things as well and doesn't complete its job as well. It's unreliable offensive stats and subpar speed and bulk just really don't make Shadow Tag all that great. This doesn't make it a bad mon, but it doesn't fill its role as well as Magnezone.
Honestly, I'd say LO is probably the most effective atm due to the fact that it breaks a lot of balance cores like CeleTran and Rotom-Wash + Landorus-T, which happen to be pretty common as of late.
I think i can help with that, Life Orb - Naive / Hasty 252 SP Atak, 200 speed (faster than excadrill jolly), 56 Atak - bolt strike, ice beam, earth power, iron head
I would use roost>iron head imo. fusion bolt, ice beam, epower, roost is probably the most effective set.
I personally like the Choice Scarf set because of its ability to clean up games so easily and it changes from a wallbreaker to a major wincon, it allows it to get over major offensive threats like Keldeo, Latis, Scarf Lando-T etc.
Unaware has its niches, especially on bulkier builds like stall or some balance teams, whether it be reliably countering a snowballing MSableye, MGyarados, etc.
Mega gayrados has mold breaker, unaware helps check mega altaria and mega heracross.
Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Two months ago I wouldn't have, I gotta shake that rust off...
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Lol that was me a month ago, switched in a rotom on a gyrados and got eq'd.
Posting this again because I had some pretty bad replays last time I posted this and this time they are generally a lot better.
I just want to share my opinion on a terrible strategy that needs a ban immediately: geopass. For those who do not know what geopass is, it is a strategy where people use several turns in the beginning of the battle to set up several moves that make it easy for the main culprit of geopass to set up geomancy and help the sweeper in sweeping the opposing team such as; tailwind, light screen, reflect, and memento because it has to run an item over focus sash to set up geomancy. After these moves are set up, smeargle comes in puts the opposing mon to sleep so that it can set up geomancy and possibly cotton guard depending on the set. Then, smeargle passes off to a special sweeper; usually one with stored power such as espeon or clefable. The mon then goes and sweeps the opponents team with the given boosts and a couple of coverage moves. If there are direct problems for that sweeper, then a trapper (which is also pretty borked but that's a discussion for another day) comes in and eliminates that mon. As you can probably tell, this strategy is very broken and needs to be banned very soon. This new replay, which was against a player with a very good team, consisting of exclusively S and A rank mons who ended up defogging away my screens, shows how geopass is executed, and how you can still sweep a team with it regardless of how skillful the opposing player is if you aren't a completely incompetent player. Geopass is a broken strategy and flat uncompetitive because it requires little to no skill to click the hazard then support move buttons that are required to execute geopass. The sweeper only has to click stored power and/or its coverage moves after it gets a geomancy handed to it. For those that say. "Don't worry about geopass, no one uses it anyways!" the reason why basically no one uses geopass is because it is so broken that most players vow never to use it and we shouldn't decide not to ban something because of usage because broken megas are used less than they could be as a result of the opportunity cost of not being able to use other megas, but they are still broken. Under that logic, Landorus-T, Heatran, and Keldeo need to be tossed from the tier while MMetagross, MSableye, and MSlowbro don't need to be suspected or considered for bans at all. Geopass requires little to no skill to use, and the unhealthiness and uncompetitive nature of the strategy rivals previous OU titans such as Greninja and Mega Lucario. As you can see from the replay that I provided, you can screw up, make misclicks and misplays, and you can still win with geopass due to how unhealthy and broken it truly is. On top of that, geopass teams that can win north of 60% of their games take all of five minutes to whip up and no thought about synnergy or perfect EV spreads is required because of how broken the strategy is, let alone the teams that have optimized EV spreads and sets that have been worked on for a half an hour or more. You can adjust for strategies such as phasing and dragon tail by simply using a magic bouncer such as espeon and give it a move to "dodge" dragon tail such as substitute. Many of these small variations can make a geopass team that is basically impossible to beat. The combination of all of these things shows why geopass is such a cancerous and terrible strategy that should be banned from the OU scene as soon as possible. My Preposition for a ban is to ban Smeargle+Baton Pass, banning Smeargle as a whole, or banning Geomancy from OU. A straight ban of Smeargle wouldn't really affect the lower tiers because Smeargle is a BL Pokemon anyways (complex bans are usually unnecessary anyways).
Here are replays of a few different matches with a geopass team on the laddder and just in general:
I just want to share my opinion on a terrible strategy that needs a ban immediately: geopass. For those who do not know what geopass is, it is a strategy where people use several turns in the beginning of the battle to set up several moves that make it easy for the main culprit of geopass to set up geomancy and help the sweeper in sweeping the opposing team such as; tailwind, light screen, reflect, and memento because it has to run an item over focus sash to set up geomancy. After these moves are set up, smeargle comes in puts the opposing mon to sleep so that it can set up geomancy and possibly cotton guard depending on the set. Then, smeargle passes off to a special sweeper; usually one with stored power such as espeon or clefable. The mon then goes and sweeps the opponents team with the given boosts and a couple of coverage moves. If there are direct problems for that sweeper, then a trapper (which is also pretty borked but that's a discussion for another day) comes in and eliminates that mon. As you can probably tell, this strategy is very broken and needs to be banned very soon. This new replay, which was against a player with a very good team, consisting of exclusively S and A rank mons who ended up defogging away my screens, shows how geopass is executed, and how you can still sweep a team with it regardless of how skillful the opposing player is if you aren't a completely incompetent player. Geopass is a broken strategy and flat uncompetitive because it requires little to no skill to click the hazard then support move buttons that are required to execute geopass. The sweeper only has to click stored power and/or its coverage moves after it gets a geomancy handed to it. For those that say. "Don't worry about geopass, no one uses it anyways!" the reason why basically no one uses geopass is because it is so broken that most players vow never to use it and we shouldn't decide not to ban something because of usage because broken megas are used less than they could be as a result of the opportunity cost of not being able to use other megas, but they are still broken. Under that logic, Landorus-T, Heatran, and Keldeo need to be tossed from the tier while MMetagross, MSableye, and MSlowbro don't need to be suspected or considered for bans at all. Geopass requires little to no skill to use, and the unhealthiness and uncompetitive nature of the strategy rivals previous OU titans such as Greninja and Mega Lucario. As you can see from the replay that I provided, you can screw up, make misclicks and misplays, and you can still win with geopass due to how unhealthy and broken it truly is. On top of that, geopass teams that can win north of 60% of their games take all of five minutes to whip up and no thought about synnergy or perfect EV spreads is required because of how broken the strategy is, let alone the teams that have optimized EV spreads and sets that have been worked on for a half an hour or more. You can adjust for strategies such as phasing and dragon tail by simply using a magic bouncer such as espeon and give it a move to "dodge" dragon tail such as substitute. Many of these small variations can make a geopass team that is basically impossible to beat. The combination of all of these things shows why geopass is such a cancerous and terrible strategy that should be banned from the OU scene as soon as possible. My Preposition for a ban is to ban Smeargle+Baton Pass, banning Smeargle as a whole, or banning Geomancy from OU. A straight ban of Smeargle wouldn't really affect the lower tiers because Smeargle is a BL Pokemon anyways (complex bans are usually unnecessary anyways).
Here are replays of a few different matches with a geopass team on the laddder and just in general:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-215088389 - it's a random ladder match against a player using a could be better team
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-215182377 - this replay isn't against the most skilled player, but it shows how geopass works even when everything doesn't go according to plan.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-215183484 - This replay is against a decent player that is using a pretty good team and I ended up getting into a position where it was basically impossible for me to lose, and the opposing player forfeited as a result of this. http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-215187556 - another match against a mediocre team that could be much better
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-215317662 - Here is a match against a more skilled player and shows how it was ridiculously easy to set up geopass even against a decent player.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-215320977 - A very decent team on the ladder that I faced and easily swept despite it having several mons and strats that would usually tear apart a HO or fast and frail team.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-215326560 - This is a replay against my friend MuhFugginMoose showing how you can even baton pass off to a slower mon and still sweep with geopass because of how OP the defensive boosts that you get from it are as well as the offensive boosts.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ou-39893 - This is a replay where boltsandbombers literally lost turn 1 because of shadow tag
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-215182377 - this replay isn't against the most skilled player, but it shows how geopass works even when everything doesn't go according to plan.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-215183484 - This replay is against a decent player that is using a pretty good team and I ended up getting into a position where it was basically impossible for me to lose, and the opposing player forfeited as a result of this. http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-215187556 - another match against a mediocre team that could be much better
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-215317662 - Here is a match against a more skilled player and shows how it was ridiculously easy to set up geopass even against a decent player.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-215320977 - A very decent team on the ladder that I faced and easily swept despite it having several mons and strats that would usually tear apart a HO or fast and frail team.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/ou-215326560 - This is a replay against my friend MuhFugginMoose showing how you can even baton pass off to a slower mon and still sweep with geopass because of how OP the defensive boosts that you get from it are as well as the offensive boosts.
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-ou-39893 - This is a replay where boltsandbombers literally lost turn 1 because of shadow tag
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I've got some pretty arbitrary conditions I need to meet to finish my team. In the ORAS metagame, are there any reliable hazard removers/rock setters that can check Zard X even at +1? Even better, if it could stop Serperior at the same time? Mega Altaria can, but if megas are ignored, what could there be? Scarf 'Drill could come close if I ran X-Scissor specifically for Serp. Not sure about anything else though, are there alternatives that stand out to anyone?
Mega Diance can stop hazards with Magic Bounce and if Zard X doesn't have EQ it can be a one time check.
but it loses to Serperior. It's a very hard situation I'm in, I'll probably have to rework a fair few team members. But I'm certain that somewhere out there, there's a niche Pokemon that fills this role perfectly.
Possibly Unaware Clefable as a SR setter, might need to do some weird investment to check both XZard and Serp, but if you run TWave you can cripple both.
Talonflame? It is pretty much the best solution unless you want to run something like Scarf Heatran. I use Talonflame to check him, assuming he gets to +1 since otherwise should be easy enough to cover.
tbh Clefable isn't really solid at checking neither Zard X or Serperior. 252 / 252+ are still 2HKOed by Flare Blitz from 220 Atk neutral natured Zard X (most common set I believe), and if you're relying on 25% chacne to paralyze, that's not exactly reliable. 252 / 252+ variants (super super uncommon, as Clefable is usually physically defensive to check MLop, but I guess fully specially defensive is an okayish check to serp, but loses to Zard X) are still 2HKOed by Leaf Storm after SR and a bit of prior damage, so Clefable actually isn't a reliable check to Zard X or Serp.
252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Clefable: 164-192 (41.6 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, 1 layer of Spikes, and Leftovers recovery
220 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 225-265 (57.1 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
OK, what about covering Mega Lopunny, Mega Zard X, possibly Zard Y, setting and removing rocks, and of course Serperior, in only 2 Pokemon. I can't find a good combination to do that. It's fairly frustrating.
Scarf Latios can check all of those, defog away hazards, although it's extremely shaky. You can't really expect 2 mons to somehow cover Mega Zard X and Mega Zard Y, Lopunny, Serperior, setting rocks, and removing them.
Mlop + Zard X + Zard Y is pretty much impossible to cover with only 2 mons.
Mlop + Zard X + Zard Y is pretty much impossible to cover with only 2 mons.
Hippo + Latios but leaves you weak to Serperior. Bulky Mega Altaria (although I'm betting you already have a mega) can check all of those pokemon but you'd be forced to run a SR Excadrill or Mew in the last slot to achieve hazards and removal which is pretty suboptimal. Alternatively Heatran + Mew could do the trick as Heatran checks Zard X without EQ, Zard Y to some degree, and counters Serperior while Mew handles Lopunny and could run Thunder Wave for the rest. I'm afraid there is no perfect answer to your dilemma though.
It'd be a lot easier to check all that stuff if you didn't need hazards and removal as well. I'd suggest trying to fit support pokemon into the teambuild a little earlier on so you have fewer types of constraints when figuring out the last members of your team. Of course, there will always be something that you are weak to.
This type of question is probably better suited for the question thread although I don't know if it would be classified as "simple."
It'd be a lot easier to check all that stuff if you didn't need hazards and removal as well. I'd suggest trying to fit support pokemon into the teambuild a little earlier on so you have fewer types of constraints when figuring out the last members of your team. Of course, there will always be something that you are weak to.
This type of question is probably better suited for the question thread although I don't know if it would be classified as "simple."
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