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Project OU Theorymon [Voting: Check Post #3272]

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Hydreigon: It looks cool great power+huge movepool and is a pokemon that you will have to be aware cause a bad prediction in a switch and you are screwed. Once is inside it kills something the problems i see to this monster are first that OU speed tier has raise like crazy in ORAS making it slower and maybe needing a scarf but that limits a lot protean also sticky web is an option but many mons fly or levitate this days and second 4MSS this has so many moves that doen't have slots to carry them all rofl but i think that is a minor problem cause is easy to solve with partners and is cool to play mind games with your opponent trying to make them think you have moves that you really don't have.

Aromatisse: Poison only gives Aroma some resistances and some weaknesses and the inmunity to toxic but it doesn't learn any poison attack appart from HP poison. If you want a typing to pair with fairy i think Steel outclass Poison by far.

Grandbull: Great deffensive wall but without reliable recover appart from lefties, it looks like goodra but oriented to physical deffense (good movepool+awesome deffensive stat-recovery) So i think that like Goodra, Granbull will we situational you will only use it if you need especifically something to check f.e. mega hera and has to be fairy.

Poliwrath: This thing is the best of this round imo, Breloom 2.0 is like de DDP subtoxic loom. Hypnosis+substitute+dynamicpunch+cover or water move and you have a mon capable of beating 6-0 unprepared teams. Just think about hypnosis the other mon goes to sleep then dynamicpunch to confuse it and then sub they will have problems fighting hax and if they do, back to the begining (It will be such a troll) With its great bulk can be a good mon in deffensive teams that are not stall been able to weak you opponents team until the sub goes down and then switch.

In conclusion my vote will go to Trolliwrath n_n
 
Easy win for Hydreigon or Poliwrath for me. Aromatisse wouldn't gain as much as these 2, while it would be great, it's not great to gain an EQ weakness. Granbull would become physically indestructable, but with no recovery bar lefties/resTalk and not particularly good special bulk, it wouldn't gain as much viability as these 2.

Hydreigon would be great with just one flaw: speed. With steel moves, it can eliviate it's fairy weakness and it has a p.good movepool to abuse. However, it's speed means it would collapse against fast offense mons it loses to now. For instance, Ice Punch M.Lop can hit it with ice punch in dragon mode, HJK in dark + steel mode and does alot of damage even in non SE modes. I can see tailwind sets trashing unprepared teams, it could be amazing.

Poliwrath would be evil. It basically has spore without the common spore user weaknesses (bar flying and psychic) that isn't awful like Smeargle. However, it's even better than spore due to affecting grass types/overcoat users. DynamicPunch would be great too. I have to say this is my fave among the slate, I love it's design and it can finally have viability.
 
I hate all of these q.q, maybe I'll just do eenie-meenie-many-moe or however you spell it

Hydreigon + Protean sounds like a nightmare and is as black as the dragon itself. God who switches into STAB everything, it's like Greninja but on drugs. Couple it with a great movepool and this is bound to rise straight to OU. Ik the speed is a let down, but scarf sets aren't out of the question, and 98 speed isn't exactly bad... one thing... how the heck does it fit flavour lol

Aromatisse + Poison no more bulky fairies PLEASE, plus i hate aromatisse, not much to say here, doesn't really help it much as far as im concerned, removing one weakness but adding two

Granbull + Fur Coat NO MORE BULKY FAIRIES GODDAMIT ISN'T CLEFABLE ENOUGH anyway this thing i can see completely laughing and shutting down offense, but yeah, as s0me1 b0red said weak spdef and lack of recovery is kinda detrimental, also its a skinny dog how does it gain hair, wtf

Poliwrath + No Guard hypnosis and dynamic punch, god this thing has no switch-ins at all. never really liked wrath though, and i'll need more convincing in on this. first one on the slate that fits flavour lmao

tl;dr vote going to hydra probably
 
Hi. Me again. I'm seeing a few things in the discussion that I would like to address.

1.) "Fur Coat is a lazy submission and should be treated the same as Huge Power."
While it is certainly true that both Fur Coat and Huge Power accomplish a lot with one ability, they are not in the same category at all. Huge Power is basically a free Swords Dance that isn't counted as a stat boost. It allows you to be immediately threatening without losing any turns. We don't like submissions with Huge Power here in Theorymons because, primarily, it's a niche we just don't need more of in OU. While we pretty loosely throw around the term, "mindless offensive buff", what we're really saying is that it's not really interesting; all it accomplishes in OU is adding just ONE MORE hard-hitter--one more offensive threat. In essence, the term "mindless" is more of a reference to how it effects the metagame, not how efficiently you buffed "Pokemon 'X'".

Fur Coat, on the other hand, is essentially a free Iron Defense that doesn't count as a stat boost. I can see how this is viewed as "defensive Huge Power" because it's true that they have relatively the same effect. However, the key difference is in how the metagame is changed. While Huge Power adds just one more thing that just…hits things…Fur Coat adds something that takes on a specific set of Pokemon and loses to a pretty general set of others. It's not "lazy" just because it accomplishes a lot with one buff; it's just efficient. Huge Power allows you to create a niche for Granbull as a tank; a pretty difficult niche to make because it requires very specific stats, typing, and move sets. True, Fur Coat is a relatively easy-button to make a tank, but consider how hard that flavor is to fit. While we don't take flavor HEAVILY into consideration, we don't let flavor be contradictory. Fur Coat pretty much contradicts everything that isn't a "furry animal" Pokemon. I understand that Granbull doesn't have glorious locks like Furfrou, but it is a furry dog, so that counts for something. A lot of thought went into this submission before it reached the council.

2.) I've been seeing a few posts that pretty much just mirror what previous posts said. Guys, I love hearing from you, but please don't parrot other people. Say something different, please. You're complaining about "lazy submissions"? Well I'm complaining about lazy posting. For the sake of the thread, please contribute something new--even if it's just a few simple damage calculations; at least there you're saying something nobody else did.


Thanks y'all
 
Granbulls niche in OU was this imaginary illusion that it slows down fighting physical attackers in the first place with Defense + Intimidate + Thunder Wave usually. With Intimidate it makes it difficult because you're banking on not facing a fighting type using Substitute which makes Intimidate moot if they're behind it. I wouldn't exactly call Fur Coat a lazy submission, I mean it's a dog for christ sake what more do you want in flavor? Also do you not see the pecs on Granbull, how in the hell is it a skinny dog .________. ? This would probably end up being in the C ranks somewhere to me.

I don't think Hydreigons flaw of speed is actually so detrimental as people are making it out to be. It would've made sense if the submission correlated to speed but it's not like the base speed just changed all of a sudden. Its role is a wall-breaker and Protean would enhance this even further, more than likely an A+ or S rank Pokemon in my eyes. You don't go "oh man Chansey's flaw of speed really holds it back".......also it gets Tailwind so there goes the speed argument.

The only real thing I could see Aromatissee being used for is a cleric + Toxic Spikes absorber. After that I can't ignore that ground weakness it has especially in a meta-game with Hippos and Landos running around. Not really understanding the allure of this one, maybe hipster stall or something. Low C's perhaps

I have no comment on Poliwrath as I would just be stating the obvious that has already been said. C+ at most.
 
DarkNostalgia said:
I hate all of these q.q, maybe I'll just do eenie-meenie-many-moe or however you spell it

Hydreigon+ Protean sounds like a nightmare and is as black as the dragon itself. God who switches into STAB everything, it's like Greninja but on drugs. Couple it with a great movepool and this is bound to rise straight to OU. Ik the speed is a let down, but scarf sets aren't out of the question, and 98 speed isn't exactly bad... one thing... how the heck does it fit flavour lol
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Gotta agree with this one. People used to say that Hydreigon "had no counter."
...
Well now, it quite literally has no counters.
Seriously, I can't see any flaws to this thing aside from its low speed and ability to be revenge killed. It has above-average bulk and an insane movepool. And no one mon can wall it, now that it can change its type.

Your best bet to stopping it will probably be AV Azumarill or Cresselia.
56 Atk Life Orb Protean Hydreigon Superpower vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 491-580 (76.4 - 90.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
56 Atk Life Orb Protean Hydreigon Superpower vs. 252 HP / 124+ Def Eviolite Porygon2: 218-257 (58.2 - 68.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

200 SpA Life Orb Protean Hydreigon Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Clefable: 351-413 (89 - 104.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
200 SpA Life Orb Protean Hydreigon Surf vs. 248 HP / 192+ SpD Heatran: 265-312 (68.8 - 81%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD (Steel-type) Hydreigon: 59-70 (18.1 - 21.5%) -- possible 5HKO

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+ No Guard is kind of cool but not really because it doesn't improve Poliwrath so much as to give it a significant OU niche.

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Fairy/Poison : Slightly underwhelming. I assume the Poison type negates Aromatisse's Poison weakness, but it doesn't add any more relevant resistances. Aromatisse already resist Bug and Fighting as a pure Fairy. Adding this wouldn't improve it that much, besides giving it a ground weakness :P.

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+Fur Coat is okay, but doesn't even make its bulk that much better:
without bulk:
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Fur Coat Granbull: 148-174 (38.5 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
with bulk:
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 232+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 103-122 (26.8 - 31.8%) -- 42.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

And note that Granbull has no good recovery either. Landorus-T far outclasses this thing.
 
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I remember when Mega Launcher Hydreigon was turned down as, if I remember correctly, it'd have been too good to boost two attacks with 3 super effective hits between them and a very common resistor in fairy.

You no longer need to use Atk investment to 2HKO Chancey. In fact...

0- Atk Life Orb Protean Hydreigon Superpower vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 416-494 (64.7 - 76.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It just fucking happens with negative investment!

With any move or type it wants, and a 50% damage boost on those, I can't see how Mega Launcher was more broken. Why would I even use the attacks with 3 SE hits between them any more when say, STAB Fire Blast/Eath Power gets much better coverage than STAB Dark/Dragon and now gets just as much STAB? I guess Draco could have use, being a 130 power move with all of 1 resist and 1 immunity.

I'll stop before this becomes a rant. And it matters little now that it's all in the past.

I will say that AV Azumarill could have an answer if you don't mind using Hidden Power.

252 SpA Life Orb Protean Hydreigon Hidden Power Grass vs. 240 HP / 16 SpD Assault Vest Azumarill: 198-234 (49.3 - 58.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

In turn, Azumarill must switch next turn or risk dying. Granted, Grass isn't the best coverage move out there, so it's a niche move, although Keldeo can't switch in safely either... don't act too shocked.

I can't think of any other HP worth considering. HP Electric is a worthless notion since Shockwave is the same but it doesn't miss cut into you IVs. HP Rock? Stone Edge exists though, so I don't know. HP Ice seems outclassed when Draco is stronger than a non x4 SE hit.

I might be overthinking this, or more precisely, looking at this incorrectly/novicely.

Timid would be ideal so you can run faster and the ability to not care about Pink Blobs means life might even be too good.


As for Poliwrath... would Whirlpool be worth anything? I have tons of doubt since if you trap something, it probably wanted to switch into you anyways. I'm just trying to think of more moves to actually abuse the ability with. It doesn't even have Stone Miss the way Machamp does, and it's a shame: it would've rounded out with the STAB almost impeccably for I cannot think of a resistor to all three types other than Dry Skin Toxicroak. Heck, it doesn't get Aqua Tail in the ONE, and I do mean one, situation where said move would actually be better than 10 less power and Flinch from a speed of 70.
 
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ShatteredSummers said:
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+Fur Coat is okay, but doesn't even make its bulk that much better
without bulk:
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Fur Coat Granbull: 148-174 (38.5 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
with bulk:
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 248 HP / 232+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 103-122 (26.8 - 31.8%) -- 42.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

And note that Granbull has no good recovery either. Landorus-T far outclasses this thing.
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Landorus-T wouldn't outclass FC Granbull lol. Unlike Landorus-Therian, Granbull actually laughs at coverage moves from things its counters. Granbull is also far more bulky when invested than Lando. Name 1 psychical attacker that can 2HKO Granbull unboosted without rocks, its clear psychical attackers can do that to Landorus-T, but I don't see it happening too often with Granbull.

Just to showcase bulk, here you go
240+ Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 102-121 (26.5 - 31.5%) -- 22.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Conkeldurr Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 88-104 (22.9 - 27%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Life Orb Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 92-108 (23.9 - 28.1%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Bisharp Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 121-144 (31.5 - 37.5%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Technician Breloom Bullet Seed (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 130-155 (33.8 - 40.3%) -- approx. 28.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 123-146 (32 - 38%) -- 0.6% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

240 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 115-140 (29.9 - 36.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 141-166 (36.7 - 43.2%) -- 98.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 116-137 (30.2 - 35.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Mega Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 84-99 (21.8 - 25.7%) -- 2.8% chance to 4HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Mega Gallade Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 67-80 (17.4 - 20.8%) -- possible 7HKO after Leftovers recovery

192+ Atk Pixilate Mega Altaria Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 87-103 (22.6 - 26.8%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

220+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 82-97 (21.3 - 25.2%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 84-100 (21.8 - 26%) -- possible 5HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 71-84 (18.4 - 21.8%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

212+ Atk Mega Aerodactyl Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 78-92 (20.3 - 23.9%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 80-95 (20.8 - 24.7%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 75-88 (19.5 - 22.9%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Mega Absol Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 47-56 (12.2 - 14.5%) -- possibly the worst move ever

252 Atk Choice Band Reckless Staraptor Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 144-170 (37.5 - 44.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 107-126 (27.8 - 32.8%) -- 81.1% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Diggersby Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 140-165 (36.4 - 42.9%) -- 96.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Victini V-create vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 174-205 (45.3 - 53.3%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 127-151 (33 - 39.3%) -- 12% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Granbull counters basically all of those Pokemon, being able to either cripple it with status or take it out with a Play Rough or EQ. Very impressive.
 
Froggyboy I stand corrected. Thanks for the calcs.

252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 71-84 (18.4 - 21.8%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Bisharp Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 121-144 (31.5 - 37.5%) -- 0% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 75-88 (19.5 - 22.9%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Tyrantrum Head Smash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 165-195 (42.9 - 50.7%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO. Holy schist.

Yeah, now that I look at it, this thing is a solid counter to Mega Lopunny and many physical attackers. Aside from Protean Hydreigon, this is probably the more viable of the current slate.
 
Name 1 psychical attacker that can 2HKO Granbull unboosted without rocks
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Mega Beedrill?

252+ Atk Adaptability Mega Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 184-218 (47.9 - 56.7%) -- 35.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

And Mold Breaker Excadrill, though I don't know how often that's used compared to Sand Rush.

Regardless, I've always liked Granbull, and I think Fur Coat is a fantastic ability for it. I just wish it had some form of recovery outside of lefties (hell, even Drain Punch would give it some more utility).
 
I'm pretty sure Beedrills run Jolly now to outspeed Jolly Lopunny, and getting the jump on +1 Jolly Dragonite is neat. Plus, even with Adamant, Granbull has a good chance to not be 2HKOed.
 
Well, I never truly contributed to this thread, so I'm going to remedy to that by giving my (noobish) opinions of the slated Pokémon.

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+ Protean

This one really intrigues me. It has a great movepool which takes full advantage of Protean and can be tailored to suit the team, as well as a decent bulk to take a few hits. Fairy- or Ice-type move incoming? Just build a metallic skin with Flash Cannon! A Fighting-type wants to use you as its punching bag? Use your head and go for a Zen Headbutt! Pesky insects are bugging you? Heat up the atmosphere with Flamethrower or Fire Blast! Steel-types are taking a stand? Show them your Superpower or shake the earth with Earthquake or Earth Power!

One flaw that I've noticed is its rather average speed. If you don't invest enough on it, Pokémon like Mega Diance and Mega Gardevoir can destroy the hydra before it even has a chance to change type. Despite that, I can see Hydreigon becoming a huge and unpredictable threat.

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+ Fairy/Poison typing

I'm a bit iffy about Aromatisse. Sure, it gains a neutrality to Poison-type moves and can absorb Toxic Spikes, as well as gaining a resistance to fellow Fairy-types and a reinforced resistance to Fighting-types. However, that's at the price of an additional weakness to Ground (Earthquake and Earth Power say hello!) and Psychic (Mega Gardevoir and the Lati Duo say hi!). Also, it has no offensive Poison-type moves to use (excluding HP Poison), it still keeps its extremely low Speed (29) and mediocre Special Attack (99, though it could be mitigated by Calm Mind) and its weakness to Steel, which means...

p4uPcqX.png252
Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Aromatisse: 374-444 (92.1 - 109.3%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

Yikes! But who would leave his/her Aromatisse to face Mega Metagross?

But not everything is bad for the aromatic fairy. It's still a quite bulky Pokémon capable to check some relevant threats, like Keldeo, any unboosted Mega Altaria, all versions of Clefable lacking Stored Power, Azumarill, Mega Lopunny and Celebi lacking Psychic. Also, its speed makes it a very valid candidate for a Trick Room team. However, despite its few qualities, it seems that Aromatisse would be outclassed by its fellow Fairies.

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+ Fur Coat

This is a Pokémon that I would like to use! If there is a kind of Fairy-type missing is a physical Fairy, especially after Mega Mawile left the OU tier. With its nice coverage and its new and glorious fur, Granbull can potentially check a lot of physical attackers, like Mega Charizard X, ScarfTar, Bisharp, Dragon Dance Altaria, Mega Scizor (thanks to Fire Punch) and Mega Gyarados (even after Intimidate).

Alas, even this almighty doggie has its flaws, namely a quite bad Special Defense and a low Speed, which means that any special attacker is going to tame this purple dog. However, that's what team members are for, right?

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+ No Guard

Annoying is an understatement for this overgrown frog. It essentially has access to what could be defined a powder-less version of Spore, which means that Grass-types and Overcoat Pokémon are vulnerable to it. Also, Dynamic Punch can be a true pain that forces you to take a risk by trying to attack or to lose momentum. This could be even worse if under the effect of Stealth Rock, since you would have to take an even higher risk. Circle Throw is another move which benefits somewhat from No Guard, by letting Poliwrath blow away any non-Ghost Pokémon all the times.

The downside of Poliwrath is the fact that it has rather underwhelming stats, which can be detrimental on the long run. Luckily the frog has access to Bulk Up to increase its physical stats, but it should still watch out of any special move.

--

I apologize in advance if my analysis isn't completely accurate. I'm still a battler under training. :p
 
Blumenwitz said:
Mega Beedrill?

252+ Atk Adaptability Mega Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 184-218 (47.9 - 56.7%) -- 35.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

And Mold Breaker Excadrill, though I don't know how often that's used compared to Sand Rush.

Regardless, I've always liked Granbull, and I think Fur Coat is a fantastic ability for it. I just wish it had some form of recovery outside of lefties (hell, even Drain Punch would give it some more utility).
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Holy SHIT. Base 150 attack super effective ADAPTABILITY boosted only has half a chance to 2hko?! (B/c poison hax) and chomp EQ is 6hko?!
well here's to the dragon counter we always wanted. It would even be usefull in ubers lol

Also hydrygon's speed REALLY lets it down. Mega garde could still hit it for example. Literally ANY sweeper withan SE move could, and scarf does not help when there are base 100 scarfers around. However this thing also now has NO switch ins anymore...
So it becomes the best revenge killer in the tier with a scarf specs or life orb. Fairies? Flash cannon Or a phisical move like EQ. Fighting? Zen headbutt. Steels? Fire blast. Heatran? Earth something. Anything else? Draco metor. And it would seriously maul ANYTHING switching in
 
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Been trying to find some physical attackers that can 2HKO Granbull, most need rocks to do it consistently.

252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 211-250 (54.9 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 234-276 (60.9 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 184-217 (47.9 - 56.5%) -- 31.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 184-217 (47.9 - 56.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Pangoro Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 180-212 (46.8 - 55.2%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Pangoro Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 180-212 (46.8 - 55.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Adaptability Mega Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 184-218 (47.9 - 56.7%) -- 35.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Adaptability Mega Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 184-218 (47.9 - 56.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

SD Scolipede is actually quite an underrated threat that can take Granbull ez, setting up in its face.
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Scolipede Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 269-317 (70 - 82.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Granbull Play Rough vs. 16 HP / 4 Def Scolipede: 63-74 (23.7 - 27.9%) -- 88.6% chance to 4HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Escavalier Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 192-226 (50 - 58.8%) -- 71.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Escavalier Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 192-226 (50 - 58.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

So yeah we're getting pretty desperate. That said though Granbull still has piss weak SpD and no reliable recovery. Also anything that isn't threatened by Play Rough can just slowly wear it down, so it wouldn't be too hard to play around. Maybe a C+ threat at best.
 
Isa Simple said:
Been trying to find some physical attackers that can 2HKO Granbull, most need rocks to do it consistently.

252+ Atk Life Orb Toxicroak Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 211-250 (54.9 - 65.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Granbull: 234-276 (60.9 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 184-217 (47.9 - 56.5%) -- 31.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 184-217 (47.9 - 56.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Choice Band Pangoro Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 180-212 (46.8 - 55.2%) -- 14.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Pangoro Gunk Shot vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 180-212 (46.8 - 55.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Adaptability Mega Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 184-218 (47.9 - 56.7%) -- 35.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Adaptability Mega Beedrill Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 184-218 (47.9 - 56.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

SD Scolipede is actually quite an underrated threat that can take Granbull ez, setting up in its face.
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Scolipede Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 269-317 (70 - 82.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Granbull Play Rough vs. 16 HP / 4 Def Scolipede: 63-74 (23.7 - 27.9%) -- 88.6% chance to 4HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Escavalier Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 192-226 (50 - 58.8%) -- 71.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Escavalier Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 192-226 (50 - 58.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

So yeah we're getting pretty desperate. That said though Granbull still has piss weak SpD and no reliable recovery. Also anything that isn't threatened by Play Rough can just slowly wear it down, so it wouldn't be too hard to play around. Maybe a C+ threat at best.
Click to expand...
Those calcs aren't exactly accurate. Or of any use, rather.
252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 165-196 (43 - 51.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

You calced this wrong, you forgot Fur coat.
If you're using Granbull to check the 5 pokemon who beat it, you're using it wrong.
 
Jernmax said:
Those calcs aren't exactly accurate. Or of any use, rather.
252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 165-196 (43 - 51.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

You calced this wrong, you forgot Fur coat.
If you're using Granbull to check the 5 pokemon who beat it, you're using it wrong.
Click to expand...
What...? I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say here. The post was purely to show the immense bulk Granbull has, not that it was checking any of these particular Pokémon. Showing that a Pokémon can survive strong hits it's realistically never going to stay in on simply to show it's pure bulk is a rather common thing to do.
 
Jernmax said:
Those calcs aren't exactly accurate. Or of any use, rather.
252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Fur Coat Granbull: 165-196 (43 - 51.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

You calced this wrong, you forgot Fur coat.
If you're using Granbull to check the 5 pokemon who beat it, you're using it wrong.
Click to expand...

Mold Breaker ignores Fur Coat...

And those calcs were used to show how little can actually threaten Granbull...
 
LMAO rekt

Granbull does seem really good, after seeing these calcs. Access to things like Thunder Wave as well to cripple a variety of things is really cool too. With Granbull, you could just invest more in spdef than def since fur coat is basically iron defense already.
 
Okay, yeah, those calcs are insane. It can survive the most powerful super-effective hits in the tier (Megagross' Meteor Mash (friends call it M3), LO Bisharp's Iron Head and Mega Beedrill's Poison Jab). I'd say this borders broken, but there's a couple things worth considering -- its lack of recovery means that even if it can switch in once or twice, it cannot be a reliable answer, and a question: what can it actually do back? It's got good coverage in Play Rough, EQ and the Punches, but considering it's probably gonna run max defense it seems rather passive, all in all. Still, worth considering.

Also, Mega Launcher Hydreigon was turned down? So much for my thinking I was original, hah.
 
Aromatisse + Poison/Fairy seems like not much of a buff, the poison resist may be neat, but it would also come with a weakness to the nearly omnipresent earthquake. Not to mention the weakness to the psychic, which is only getting better in ORAS with Lati@s and Mega Gross. It seems like it still wouldn't be viable in OU if you ask me.
Granbull + Fur Coat This really seems like it is the crowd favorite, but it seems like anything with flash cannon can kill it pretty easily. I think that this
Poliwrath + Mold Breaker seems like the most fun, but realistically not the best. I could see people using hypnosis, then using that time to set up with Bulk up, dynamic punching next to anything, and circle throwing anything that isn't dealt with by that dynamic punch. It has decent enough bulk to survive most hits, and if trained in Def, it doesn't have to worry about Psyshock too badly. If it isn't killed, it can still hypnosis,and when they try to switch out, you can just circle throw and not let them send out the appropriate check/counter.
252 Atk Landorus-T U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 31-37 (8 - 9.6%) -- possibly the worst move ever
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 257-304 (66.9 - 79.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Metagross Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 282-332 (73.4 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Mega Gallade Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Poliwrath: 234-276 (60.9 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
It has just enough bulk to take one hit from most of OU, but only that, but it can still pester whatever your opponent wants to use. I want this to be better than it is, but the next pokemon has to be the best.
To end my thoughts about this on a stupid note, with the fact that it won't miss it could use Ice Ball (AKA Rollout 2: Electric bugaloo, and guess what type it is), I see lots of stupid people trying to run this as a gimmick set. Here is a stupid damage calculation for that stupid set
0 Atk Poliwrath (960 BP)Ice Ball vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 834-982 (165.8 - 195.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Hydreigon + Protean This would make one hell of a wallbreaker, and with protean it has enough bulk to tank plenty of hits and enough attack stats to hit very hard. All around very good. This is one I think is the best, most of the damage calculations that are important have been posted already. This probably has my vote.
 
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