Gen 3 Subpunchseed Ludi Team.

Falkner12

Dragonite (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Inner Focus
EVs: 54 HP / 252 Atk / 204 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Focus Punch
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Thunder

604 attack. Enough speed to reach 246, outspeeding the 245ers.

Slowbro (F) @ Leftovers ** Toby
Trait: Own Tempo
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Def / 44 SDef

Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Calm Mind
- Rest
- Surf
- Thunder Wave

Tobybro. Is awesome and works nicely as a bulky water.

Heracross (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Guts
EVs: 204 HP / 140 Atk / 68 Spd / 96 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Megahorn
- Rest
- Rock Slide
- Sleep Talk

My favorite Heracross set. Willing to drop this for anything; I only put him in because I couldn't figure out anything better.

Blissey (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 148 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd / 104 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Heal Bell
- Ice Beam
- Seismic Toss
- Softboiled

I think I am the first to ever use a Blissey in competitive play, and as a sponge no less.

Skarmory (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Atk / 192 Def / 16 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Rest
- Roar
- Spikes
- Drill Peck


Your basic physical wall. Walls things. Spikes + leech seed is nice.

Ludicolo (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Swift Swim
EVs: 204 HP / 152 Atk / 4 Spd / 56 SAtk / 92 SDef
Lonely Nature (+Atk, -Def)
- Focus Punch
- Ice Beam
- Leech Seed
- Substitute

The team was originally supposed to revolve around this subpunching ludicolo. It has worked/works quite well; 152 atk evs give 235 attack.
 
Weird EV spread for Ludi. I'd suggest 352 HP minimum for max Leftovers, possibly 360 HP for max Leech Seed. Other than that, original move set.

Steelix is just made to explode, even more when you pump some Atk EVs in him.
 
then you might as well switch lix for skarm. at least with skarm you get to set spikes while keeping your steel type phazer. with spikes, leech seed induces more switches, as well as allowed draggy to hit harder. forrty could also go there, if you dont mind the lack of roar/ww
 
What Pokémon actually run 245 Speed to warrant 246 Dragonite? :/

Slowbro wants more Defence, you have Calm Mind to up those Special stats.

Again with the Speed, what are the benefits of running 235 Speed Heracross? If you're going to make it so slow, you only need 222 to beat Adamant max Speed Tyranitar. 223 if you want to beat Taunt Umbreon that isn't doing anything to Heracross anyway.

I wouldn't bother with all that SDef on Steelix, you have Bissey to switch in on Special Attacks and only Steelix to switch into the majority of Physical threats. Like MoP said, use Skarmory instead.

Why does Ludicolo need 235 Attack? What does it do? I can't be bothered to calc everything you'll want to hit with it, but 226 is all you need to be sure to 2HKO Max HP/Def Bold Blissey (which no one really uses so you'll need even less Attack really). The 4 Speed EVs aren't doing anything drastic either but whatever.

Team may have a bit of trouble with Salamence IMO.
 
Havak said:
What Pokémon actually run 245 Speed to warrant 246 Dragonite? :/
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It outspeeds Jolly Tyranitar at 243, and by default everything that tries to outspeed it. (Calm, Bulky Zapdoses and such.)

IMO you should be investing more in spdef and HP and less in attack on that heracross, as you are depending on it quite a bit to handle mixed attackers. It's nice to have an extra gengar/swampert counter around, too.
 
I would just use breloom over ludicolo. Ice beam is not going to hit celebi, its main counter, hard and breloom can do alot more damage with sub/seed/hp rock (or spore)/focus punch than ludicolo can do with that set.
 
NC said:
I would just use breloom over ludicolo. Ice beam is not going to hit celebi, its main counter, hard and breloom can do alot more damage with sub/seed/hp rock (or spore)/focus punch than ludicolo can do with that set.
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um saying ludicolo doesn't do shit to celebi followed by suggesting breloom doesn't um...really fit.
 
Thanks Karrot; Slowbro and Heracross look like this now
Slowbro (F) @ Leftovers ** Toby
Trait: Own Tempo
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Def / 44 SDef
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)

and

Heracross (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Guts
EVs: 204 HP / 140 Atk / 68 Spd / 96 SDef
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)

246 speed on dragonite is to beat everyone who runs 245 (in order to outrun the 244's that out run max speed jolly tyranitar). I just needed a number to shoot for after maxing attack because Dragonite isn't going to outspeed much anyway.

Team may have a bit of trouble with Salamence IMO.
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Slowbro owns Salamence.

Oh, and skarm has replaced Steelix. I'll put it all in the first post.
 
Aeroblacktyl said:
um saying ludicolo doesn't do shit to celebi followed by suggesting breloom doesn't um...really fit.
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No, I'm saying ice beam isn't even effective against celebi, which is the only thing besides salamence and claydol that ice beam would do more damage than HP rock to (that you would actually see). Ludicolo is a terrible salamence counter (I guess blissey is the best on this team, that is a different problem) and claydol is not much of an attacking threat so breloom's huge advantage in amount of damage given over ludicolo would make it more effective for this (or most) team/s. It seems like you are using the set just to use it, rather than using what would be most effective.
 
It seems like you are using the set just to use it, rather than using what would be most effective.
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I'm using this set because it is effective. Any other ludicolo set (note: the only other ludicolo set) is too predictable. I've never had celebi problems in the past because I don't leave ludi in to be calm minded on. I go to dragonite and dragonite says 604 attack go!

Ludicolo is a terrible salamence counter (I guess blissey is the best on this team, that is a different problem)
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Wow, dejavu. Slowbro still owns salamence even though you brought mence up a second time.
 
Falkner12 said:
I'm using this set because it is effective. Any other ludicolo set (note: the only other ludicolo set) is too predictable. I've never had celebi problems in the past because I don't leave ludi in to be calm minded on. I go to dragonite and dragonite says 604 attack go!


Wow, dejavu. Slowbro still owns salamence even though you brought mence up a second time.
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I'm not saying the ludicolo set is bad, I'm saying that breloom would accomplish the same thing much more effectively.


Slowbro with surf as its only attack does NOT own salamence at all. The best it can do is paralyze it with good prediction, but salamence usually will not switch in or stay in on slowbro anyway. It will just hit and run with CB killing your whole team since you have no counter.
 
As it does everything.

Anyways, a Paralyzed Salamence is esentially a crippled Salamence, as it switching into things are more limited as it'd have to take another hit. A CBMence could have some fun, but it'd still be hardpressed to pick between HPFlying or Fire Blast trying to hit Slowbro or Skarmory. DDMence will definitely not do enough to where Slowbro WILL shit on it.
 
Ludicolo

Personally I would just opt to use regice over ludicolo. It just works better in general. It scares salamence and celebi and if you wanna use ggice you can have some fun as well.
 
Slowbro with surf as its only attack does NOT own salamence at all. The best it can do is paralyze it with good prediction, but salamence usually will not switch in or stay in on slowbro anyway. It will just hit and run with CB killing your whole team since you have no counter.
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Pokemon X does not counter Pokemon Y because Pokemon Y will not stay in against Pokemon X = flawed logic.
 
Personally I would just opt to use regice over ludicolo. It just works better in general. It scares salamence and celebi and if you wanna use ggice you can have some fun as well.
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you have no idea how good idea that is; however, not so much for the reasons you stated. I'm not and haven't been worried about cbmence. And celebi is ownd by dragonite/skarm. However, zapdos has been causing quite a few problems in combination with spikes. I'd definitely consider regice if you'd be willing to explain this ggice deal.

also, my need of a spinner is becoming more and more obvious as I continue using this team. suggestions?
 
Mekkah said:
Pokemon X does not counter Pokemon Y because Pokemon Y will not stay in against Pokemon X = flawed logic.
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That's not why slowbro doesn't counter it. It doesn't counter it because it's only attack 5HKOs standard CBmence. I only said the switching part in response to anyone saying thunder wave counters it. DDmence is an even worse problem since it can set up on slowbro and outspeed (even after paralysis) and OHKO it after enough (3-4?) dragon dances before slowbro can kill it.

I do like the suggestion of regice over ludicolo though for this team.
 
have you considered just thunder waving the salamence, and switching out to skarmory if it hpfly'd? if it earthquaked, in goes ludicolo so you can IB or go to dragonite. if it rock slides or fire blast, they're not doing shit to slowbro. if it has dragon dance, it'll have a hell of a hard time, considering it'll only have 3 attacking moves, and after being paralyze, you dd on switch to his ludicolo, you're still slower. if you're fbless, skarmory doesn't give a shit. or if it just dd at all after being para, no matter what switches in, its getting fucked.
 
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