np: ORAS OU Suspect Process, Round 3 - Ghosts [Giratina-O remains in Ubers - check the OP]

[Lord Wallace]

Since people keep bringing up Aegislash, what happened to the ban/suspect philosophy of back then? You know, the one that actually brought us a somewhat decent game in late-XY?. I remember people fear-mongering during the Aegislash test about Mega Gard, Cham, and Hera becoming stronger as a result, and what was the response?
If one of those three were to become broken after banning Aegislash then we just do another suspect test. We don't keep (or bring down, in this case) broken to check broken. What happened to all that?
Why didn't we suspect Keldeo or Landorus if we're really so sick of them before trying to cure cancer with a tumor?

 

[Force Majeure]

On the off chance this isn't a joke, Gira-O is probably one of the better potential Ubers drops as it's fundamentally limited in what it can carry, and all it can carry is the Griseous Orb, which isn't a great item aside from its necessity to transform Gira. It powers up Gira-O's STAB by 20%, which is K. It's also relatively unbothered by Knock Off. There are very, very few viable Ghost Types in the meta after Mega Gengar Aegislash's banning, so maybe it would help type diversity a bit. I'm really not sure tbf, so I'll putz about the ladder for a spell.

 

[Adaam]

Presently, the OU metagame is stale and the abundance of defensively oriented teams led us to believe that a mixed attacker with great defensive and offensive typing will probably give back some vivacity to the tier.

OU is defensively oriented? The 4 S rank Mons are offensive behemoths and there are like a bazillion wall breakers or sweepers. But that's fine if you think that, as long as you support yourself.

Likewise, according to top players of the caliber of gr8astard and McMeghan, Giratina-O's 150/100/100 defenses will help balanced teams deal with threats such as Charizard-Y, Landorus-I and Serperior.

U wot m8? You decide to suspect Giratina to check the aforementioned offensive behemoths when you just said OU is too defensive? And of all the wall breakers to mention, you mention freaking Serperior?

I have to say, this is the best prank I've seen on a website.

 

[Fresh Dimi's]

I believe Giratina-O should not be OU for numerous reasons. First of all, it's typing allows it to wall most of the offensive Meta.
Giratina-O shuts down offensive threats like Keldeo, Charizard-Y, Landorus-I, Landorus-T, Thundurus-I, Venusaur (LO) and, if it's at full health,
even Mega Metagross.
Being unaffected by 3 Types, and having numerous resistances, is also a big factor to it's effectiveness. Most common types like Fire, Ground, Fighting can't do anything to it.
The best way to deal with Giratina-O is to have Latios at full HP and hope they don't crit you with Shadow Sneak.
With base defense stats of 150/100/100, it can also work as a wall and provide Defog and Will-O support.
With an amazing movepool, it is somewhat hard to predict what set it might be, unless you decide on team preview. Most popular right now, of what I've seen,
is Sub+CM. Giratina-O with a Sub up is not something to take lightly.
In my opinion, it also limits team building to an extent and forces players to resort to using Fairies or fast Dragons to beat it.
Late game, Giratina-O can sweep if dealt with threats correctly. Almost nothing that is not super-effective can OHKO this beast.
Whittling Giratina-O is no easy task too and it must be played around very carefully
Having STAB priority is also a huge plus to this things effectiveness.
Providing Will-O support, it can deal with Physical Threats such as Metagross, Bisharp, Excadrill, Landorus-T etc.
With an insane SpAtk stat, Draco Meteor is simply a must and can easily OHKO almost every non-resistant mon. Since it can also be mixed, while at the same time unpredictable, this thing should not be OU
As of now, when this reply was posted, there are limited mons that can deal with Giratina-O effectively which include fast Dragons (over base 90) and Fairies

Below are some important calcs involving Giratina-O, imo
252+ Atk Bisharp Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina-O: 228-270 (51.7 - 61.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina-O: 192-227 (43.5 - 51.4%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Giratina-O: 377-447 (85.4 - 101.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
180 Atk Griseous Orb Giratina-O Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Gardevoir: 194-230 (70 - 83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina-O: 170-202 (38.5 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

These are the most basic calcs as calcing how much a Hyper Voice from Mega Gardevoir would do to Giratina-O is redundant and fucking stupid

 

[Gary]

The fact that people are even considering Toxic Spikes as an answer to Giratina just proves that they're talking completely out of there ass and have no clue what they're talking about.

Anyways, I've already given most of my thoughts on what I think about Giratina-O at this moment. However, I just want to reiterate how despite what a lot of people are saying about this suspect test being a complete and utter joke/waste of time, I really hope the OU council continues to do suspect tests like these. While in my opinion Giratina-O is so obviously broken and has little place in OU, I still don't mind us exploring new routes of suspect testing instead of just doing what we usually do and suspecting shit here and there and then letting the metagame rot into a stale mess like it has been for months. I really hope this isn't some terrible April Fools joke, because then it would kind of give the impression that testing Ubers is kind of seen as a joke, and wont be considered again, even though personally I think it's a great way to potentially spice up a metagame. So what if Giratina-O ends up being a broken piece of shit in OU? At least we gave it a try. If we never drop controversial shit down, we may be missing out on a chance to potentially having a more fun and diverse meta. Although the XY Aegislash meta was pretty limiting, I honestly think that the current state of the ORAS meta is a lot more prepared for Aegislash then it was in XY. However, we're suspecting Giratina-O here, so no need to delve on an Aegislash suspect any further.

I do agree with a few points that shrang mentioned about testing Ubers in general. While there's nothing wrong with testing out shit in OU we've never tried before, I do admit Giratina-O is a pretty huge jump. I know higher or lower viability in an upper tier doesn't necessarily mean anything (see A rank Klefki in Ubers compared to B+ in OU), but Giratina-O isn't just good because of its utility niche, but also because it has the stats and movepool to duke it out with the other Ubers without the need of massive utility such as Prankster Klefki. It's good because it's fucking VERY bulky and decently strong even for Ubers standard. Again, I'm not saying that just because something is good in Ubers doesn't necessarily make it automatically broken in OU, but it's just such a good Pokemon in general that when comparing it to many of the Pokemon found in OU, it just doesn't compare. I don't know why people are comparing Giratina-O to Kyurem-B, because they're practically polar opposites. Kyurem-B is manageable in OU because it has a ton of crippling flaws that keep it from preforming as good as it wants to. Being weak to all forms of hazards, common priority and typing, as well as depending so much on its special movepool to make up for its terrible physical movepool, on top of the fact that it loses to a lot of common offensive Pokemon because of its typing and Speed. It makes a lot more sense to drop something like that.

Giratina-O on the other hand, has MUCH more pros going for it than cons. While it does lack the sheer power that Pokemon such as LO Kyurem-B or Landorus have, it's incredibly diverse movepool makes it insanely unpredictable and allows it to pick and choose what it wants to beat, and it can fully abuse both its decent physical and special attacking stats as well as being a very useful support Pokemon. Kyurem-B is very one dimensional, because it's main selling point is its wallbreaking potential as well as being a decent revenge killer with Scarf, but it can't abuse its above average defensive capabilities because it lacks support options as well as a good defensive typing. Giratina-O has everything it needs to fully abuse its bulk, supporting, and offensive potential. The only thing it truly wishes it had was Roost, but it's not like sets such as RestoChesto, RestTalk, or Wish support is completely out of the question. It's extremely versatile.

And that's the thing, unlike Kyurem-B, Giratina-O doesn't have nearly as many exploitable flaws. And that's the key word here; exploitable. Does Giratina-O have flaws? Of course it does. But are they nearly as easy to take advantage of as Kyurem-B's? Hell no. Also

tl;dr Giratina-O is not Kyurem-B, and they're no where near comparable enough to compare their suspect tests. Also other random rant things such as suspecting more practical ubers before jumping the gun. (subjective of course, but my opinion)

 

[h20phreak]

I was shocked when I read this, but after some analysis, I don't think unbanning Giratina-O is a bad thing. It could backfire, resulting a reban, but I think it could work.
While it does have an amazing presence and it does resist some good types, Giratina's weakness are a problem, especially many Fairy-types. Even an uninvested Sylveon's Hyper Voice is a 2HKO where Giratina's best attacks are a 4HKO.

This, I've been running my team unchanged on the suspect ladder and the uninvested hyper voice sylveon and mega-alt I run make it pretty easy to deal with Giratina-O. Altaria doesn't like switching in to WoW but cleric sylveon counters him pretty good with 2hko hyper voice and heal bell to take away any burns he incurred.

I like the prospect of bringing certain uber's down in general. Maybe Giratina-O will be over-centralizing but I don't think it would wreck everything in the tier. It will probably lead to higher usage of fairies and steels to compensate.

 

[oryxslayer]

I believe Giratina-O should not be OU for numerous reasons. First of all, it's typing allows it to wall most of the offensive Meta.
Giratina-O shuts down offensive threats like Keldeo, Charizard-Y, Landorus-I, Landorus-T, Thundurus-I, Venusaur (LO) and, if it's at full health,
even Mega Metagross.
Being unaffected by 3 Types, and having numerous resistances, is also a big factor to it's effectiveness. Most common types like Fire, Ground, Fighting can't do anything to it.
The best way to deal with Giratina-O is to have Latios at full HP and hope they don't crit you with Shadow Sneak.
With base defense stats of 150/100/100, it can also work as a wall and provide Defog and Will-O support.
With an amazing movepool, it is somewhat hard to predict what set it might be, unless you decide on team preview. Most popular right now, of what I've seen,
is Sub+CM. Giratina-O with a Sub up is not something to take lightly.
In my opinion, it also limits team building to an extent and forces players to resort to using Fairies or fast Dragons to beat it.
Late game, Giratina-O can sweep if dealt with threats correctly. Almost nothing that is not super-effective can OHKO this beast.
Whittling Giratina-O is no easy task too and it must be played around very carefully
Having STAB priority is also a huge plus to this things effectiveness.
Providing Will-O support, it can deal with Physical Threats such as Metagross, Bisharp, Excadrill, Landorus-T etc.
With an insane SpAtk stat, Draco Meteor is simply a must and can easily OHKO almost every non-resistant mon. Since it can also be mixed, while at the same time unpredictable, this thing should not be OU
As of now, when this reply was posted, there are limited mons that can deal with Giratina-O effectively which include fast Dragons (over base 90) and Fairies

Below are some important calcs involving Giratina-O, imo
252+ Atk Bisharp Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina-O: 228-270 (51.7 - 61.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Iron Head vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina-O: 192-227 (43.5 - 51.4%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Giratina-O: 377-447 (85.4 - 101.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
180 Atk Griseous Orb Giratina-O Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 24 Def Gardevoir: 194-230 (70 - 83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Mega Lopunny Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Giratina-O: 170-202 (38.5 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

These are the most basic calcs as calcing how much a Hyper Voice from Mega Gardevoir would do to Giratina-O is redundant and fucking stupid

I'd like to reply to some of these as I don't agree with those points. The whole point of this suspect if its not a joke is to bring something into OU to check those threats you mentioned, because right now, teambuilding is stressful for me and many others as you have to try to find pokes that can check the whole meta when paired together (not easy), and giratina takes away a lot of this strain. For the next point I don't agree with, latios is nowhere near the best way to deal with it. Fairies generally work pretty well, and there are a few pokemon that can wall its attacks by virtue of stats. Whittling giratina in my experience is surprisingly easy as he has no recovery outside rest or pain split and is switching in constantly, racking up damage from the attacks, stealth rocks, and potential burns/poison. For a lot of pokemon, things that aren't super-effective don't OHKO unless they are an insane nuke like latios' draco or zard y's fire blast. Draco meteor also has a history of being a nuclear move, as not a lot wants to switch into latios' draco unless they are a fairy/steel, or chansey. Anyway, I hope that this wasn't harsh, but some of your points made little sense to me.

 

[Plague von Karma]

I've just been playing on the Suspect Ladder. Giratina-O isn't as broken as you think. It is really nice, but CANNOT SWEEP. I was using a bog standard set, and it did kill a lot of common Pokemon really quickly. I also used a Physically Defensive Wishpass Sylveon in 1v1 against a Giratina and used Pixilate Hyper Voice (Uninvested), and it kills Gira really fast. In fact, a lot of Fairies scare Giratina away. In addition, a lot of Giratinas like Outrage, so Sylveon (and other Fairies, not being Pokemonist here) switch-ins can force it out as well. Overall, it isn't as bad as people think it is. Garchomp is pretty good against it as well.

 

[n64lord]

It's a good chance to feel elitist. A lot of people are small minded about what a bannable mon can be like. I abused deo-d back in the day, so I don't see any problem using gira-o who does not suffer from a lot of the problems people have been trying to claim it has. I'm finding the most consistant things to just be gira+ddsweeper+pursuit mon and gira+metagross, since the first works about as well as dragmag 5th gen and the second kinda gurantees a free switch in, and if you are running a spikes team on top of that it can't even really be played around.

 

[firehusky]

Giratina-O offers so many things for stall teams it's not even funny; it counters specs keldeo, landorus-i, serperior, zard y, mega gallade, spinblocking, and defog. It can also burn many physical attackers with will-o-wisp, and put things on a timer with toxic. Giratina might not be broken, but it's super overcentralizing. People are starting to run stuff like mandibuzz and klefki just to counter it, and even then they can get bopped by thunder and earth power, respectively. Being immune to spikes and neutral to SR is also really nice, as it's much harder to wear down. We're introducing this to make the metagame more diverse, but it's just making it staler. We'll be seeing Giratina-O on every team, and stuff like keldeo, landorus-i, and mega gallade will be nearly unviable due to the fact that giratina literally has like 0 downsides.

 

[MaestroDeSWAG]

Power creep has been occurring for years, rather than complaining, the best course of action is to adjust to it. Fortunately, I feel that several actions recently have reflected this, such as the creation of more and more tiers. Even NU is a relatively new creation. This has allowed for the creation of more and more superior Pokemon to be created, while also creating a place for the newly-outclassed mons to be used.

This same ideology has been applied w/ the (albeit temporary) unbanning of various mons at the beginning of the generation, like blaziken, the deos, and gene. At the time, they were deemed too powerful for the meta. However, this doesn't mean that they will always be. Some day, the power creep may be great enough that they could come back down again. Probably not, but garchomp proved that it can happen. For this reason, I applaud the OU council for this move.

However, I don't think giratina is the right mon to bring down at the moment. It's just to good. The restriction to a specific item is really not that significant. Especially when you consider that, 1. It mitigates it's otherwise serious knock off weakness, 2. Other mons will carry type boosting items, like Draco plate (dragalge), sharp beak (TF), or black glasses (bisharp), and their respective items only boost one of their STABS, while giratina's boosts both. 120/120/90 attacking stats are no joke, Thats better than Altaria in every regard. Altaria has Pixilate, Gira has griseous orb boosted draco meteor/outrage, which does way more than Altaria could ever dream. Pixilate only provides 1.083x more boost than griseous orb. Altaria gets DD, Gira gets CM. That's only offensively; let's not forget that alt is flying/ dragon pre-mega. This makes it weak to rocks, and after you mega evolve alt, it is susceptible to spikes as well. Gira has neither of these flaws, allowing it to function as a great defogger. Perhaps most important tho, is its ridiculous 150/100/100 bulk. It does lack leftovers, but let's not forget about good ol' rotom w, who, while capable of having leftovers, also relies on painsplit/ rest for recovery. It has 50 HP, and has always been considered one of the premier defensive mons of the tier. It has 1 immunity; Gira has 3.

Neither of these are perfect comparisons. It is soley meant to compare Gira to two of the best mons in the tier in their respective roles. Obviously, this is not a complete analyis of Gira's strengths and weaknesses; that would take forever. The point is, Gira is kinda like aegislash; it's capable of running completely different sets to fulfill multiple roles, much like aegis did with its sub toxic set. Except Gira has WoW.

Gira is just too strong as both an offensive and a defensive threat in OU. It's biggest flaw is its lack of recovery, but that's not an unmanageable problem. While I think it's a super cool mon, it really has no place in OU.

 

[Blazikarados]

I've just been playing on the Suspect Ladder. Giratina-O isn't as broken as you think. It is really nice, but CANNOT SWEEP. I was using a bog standard set, and it did kill a lot of common Pokemon really quickly. I also used a Physically Defensive Wishpass Sylveon in 1v1 against a Giratina and used Pixilate Hyper Voice (Uninvested), and it kills Gira really fast. In fact, a lot of Fairies scare Giratina away. In addition, a lot of Giratinas like Outrage, so Sylveon (and other Fairies, not being Pokemonist here) switch-ins can force it out as well. Overall, it isn't as bad as people think it is. Garchomp is pretty good against it as well.

The point of Giratina isn't to sweep. That's like expecting Mega Garchomp to 6-0 a team. If your opponent stayed in with Gira vs. Sylveon, then it's definitely not a good example of high-level play (unless sacking Gira led to a large advantage/guaranteed victory). Few will click Outrage with a fairy still alive.

I've noticed a fairly large increase in Sylveon and Bisharp on the suspect ladder to take on Giratina. The problem is that it has just so much natural bulk that most physical attackers that don't have a super effective STAB get neutered easily by wisp and special attackers get a nasty surprise if it gets a CM or two. Though it can't sweep teams, it can take on so many attackers that I feel like it could force the metagame to revolve around it too much. The suspect ladder is still young, but I'm somewhat worried about the health of the metagame should we let Gira-O in.

 

[TheTraininator]

Here's the thing I'm worried about with Giratina-O: people have been mentioning that the main reason to bring it down is because it blanket checks a large portion of the metagame which is currently nearly impossible to do that because of how many ridiculously powerful threats have to be prepared for, right? So if that's the case... why wouldn't EVERYBODY just run Giratina-O? You guys are saying that you want the metagame to become less stale, but I can't say I exactly want to see a Pokemon with 3 immunities and 150/100/100 bulk on EVERY SINGLE GODDAMN TEAM. And I know that people have been comparing Giratina-O to current Mega Pokemon and saying how 680 BST and forced to hold an item isn't that bad when Mega Metagross has 700 BST and a better movepool and Tough Claws and all that shit, but everyone seems to be overlooking the fact that Giratina-O doesn't take up a mega slot. If you run Mega Metagross, then you technically are losing out on the utility of Mega Scizor or Mega Sableye, or the wallbreaking potential of Mega Charizard Y or Mega Gardevoir, but you miss out on nothing by running Giratina-O. Therefore, everyone will be running it. I'm sorry, but I can't say I look forward to that kind of metagame. It's just too good not to slap on every single team, and it itself is too hard to play around consistently. Do you really believe that Giratina-O/Mega Sableye cores will make for a healthy meta?

 

[Plague von Karma]

The point of Giratina isn't to sweep. That's like expecting Mega Garchomp to 6-0 a team. If your opponent stayed in with Gira vs. Sylveon, then it's definitely not a good example of high-level play (unless sacking Gira led to a large advantage/guaranteed victory). Few will click Outrage with a fairy still alive.

I've noticed a fairly large increase in Sylveon and Bisharp on the suspect ladder to take on Giratina. The problem is that it has just so much natural bulk that most physical attackers that don't have a super effective STAB get neutered easily by wisp and special attackers get a nasty surprise if it gets a CM or two. Though it can't sweep teams, it can take on so many attackers that I feel like it could force the metagame to revolve around it too much. The suspect ladder is still young, but I'm somewhat worried about the health of the metagame should we let Gira-O in.

Actually, if Gira uses Defog and Bisharp switches into it, it can become a scary sweeper with Knock Off, correct? Yes. That can actually wear down Giratina quite a bit. Also, mine gets taken down easily to Sylveon and Bisharp. Even then, Talonflame *gags upon saying it's name* and Quick Attack Mega Pinsir can revenge kill it if it's HP is low enough. In addition, the metagame doesn't need to centralize over it - Mega Metagross can kill it easily with Ice Punch given that it doesn't have Shadow Force. In fact, a lot of Scarf users with Ice Punch can wear down a lot of Gira's HP - especially Scarf Sheergatr *shot for mentioning it*.

You definitely need more than one Pokemon to take down Gira, I can tell you that for sure.

 

[Halcyon.]

Has anyone tried laddering without Giratina on their team? If so what were the results? I haven't done any laddering because fuck laddering on my phone, but I would be interested to see if someone can use a team without Giratina to success. It would sort of invalidate the argument that Giratina would be necessary on every team.

With that in mind, I think it's important for everyone to realize that because this ladder is dedicated to testing Giratina, it's obviously going to be an extremely centralizing force. Moreso than it would be on the normal ladder. A lot of you probably weren't around for the Garchomp or Kyurem-B tests, but it was essentially the same thing. In fact, one of the reasons Kyurem-B was considered not broken was that Genesect was still the most used Pokemon on the suspect ladder despite the fact that it was supposed to be dedicated to testing Kyurem. So yeah, back to the original point. Try laddering with teams that don't use Giratina to truly see its effect on the metagame.

 

[Sanger Zonvolt]

Actually, if Gira uses Defog and Bisharp switches into it, it can become a scary sweeper with Knock Off, correct? Yes. That can actually wear down Giratina quite a bit. Also, mine gets taken down easily to Sylveon and Bisharp.

Thank you for informing us that a Dark/Steel type and a Fairy type can kill a Dragon/Ghost in a 1v1 situation.

Even then, Talonflame *gags upon saying it's name* and Quick Attack Mega Pinsir can revenge kill it if it's HP is low enough.

What a coincidence, Primal Groudon, Xerneas and Mega Salamence can also be revenge killed with priority attacks if their HP is low enough.

In addition, the metagame doesn't need to centralize over it - Mega Metagross can kill it easily with Ice Punch given that it doesn't have Shadow Force.

Or, you know, Shadow Ball, but hey it's only slashed over Dragon Tail on standard set.

In fact, a lot of Scarf users with Ice Punch can wear down a lot of Gira's HP - especially Scarf Sheergatr *shot for mentioning it*.

3 Things:
1. Why do you need a Scarfer to wear down something with 90 base speed?
2. Why are you scarfing Feraligatr?
3. WHY ARE YOU SCARFING FERALIGATR!?
I hope you council members are getting a good laugh watching us squirm you sadists

 

[skyhigh256]

Mega Gardevoir really shines in destroying Giratina-Origin at the moment (insane fairy power + higher speed than Giratina-Origin). Any sets trying to be funny with substitute gets destroyed promptly by hyper voice. Actually, Mega Gardy ohko most variants; the most specially defensive types will get KO-ed after stealth rock damage I believe.

Still, this does not steer from the fact that Giratina-Origin has pretty insane bulk.

 

[Red Cat]

After about a dozen games on the ladder, I'm not very impressed. Stall seems to be the dominant playstyle on the ladder now that Giratina-O is around to check all the top offensive threats. As for the belief that Giratina-O lessens the team matchup dependency, I believe that is simply untrue. The suspect ladder basically comes down to this:

• If you use things like Landorus, Keldeo, and Zard-Y and your opponent has Giratina-O, you will usually lose.
• If you use fairies which check and counter Giratina-O and your opponent is using it, you will usually win.
• If you use Landorus, Keldeo, or Zard-Y and your opponent doesn't have Giratina-O, you will usually win.
• If you use things which check and counter Giratina-O and your opponent isn't using it, you will usually lose.

I don't like to bash the council, but I really do believe this is a waste of time especially since I can't imagine 60% of the playerbase being behind this. If we do unban Giratina-O, and the meta becomes stale again, we have 2 options:

1. Unban more Ubers to continue to try to balance out the meta.
2. Reverse course and re-ban Giratina-O and continue banning other threats that it checked.

I'm not sure where option 1 will lead us. OU will become more and more like Ubers which may or may not be a good thing. Option 2 is obviously a gargantuan waste of our time which hinders the development of the OU meta.

The question I'd ask people on the fence about this test is: Do you think unbanning Giratina-O helps the development of OU or do you think it is just a temporary "shake up" that will soon get old in OU just like every other "shake up" has?

 

[FogHorn]

Through my early testing of the Pokemon on stall (very small sample space keep this in mind) is that the Pokemon is extremely strong in the tier. This is the set I have been using to a decent degree of success.

Giratina-Origin @ Griseous Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Atk / 156 SpD / 96 Spe
Bold Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Dragon Tail
- Pain Split
- Draco Meteor

The Speed EVs are designed to outspeed Adamant Bisharp and Will-O-Wisp it to minimize damage.

But in general from what I have played with, it is an extremely good defensive Pokemon that walls the majority of the tier, and is easily adaptable to deal with its supposed counters. Pain Split has been decent as well as recovery, more so than I had previously thought, though you do run into HP issues with it sometimes. Even with minimal investment, Draco Meteor still packs enough of a punch to offensively pressure the Pokemon you switch in on. It is still early days, but I am still thinking that it shouldn't come back into OU.

 

[Sebberball]

I Feel Having Giratina-O In The Tier Will Boost The Usage Factors Of Different Pokemon. By This I Mean Most Fairys Like Mega Gardevoir and Mixed Def Clefables. Having Such A Offensive And Possibly Defensive Threat Will Be A Nice Change To OU, Having The Devil In OU Will Allow Different Teams And Different Megas Get Some Time In The Spotlight, Like Mega-Lopunny And A Lot Of Different Scrappy Users, Like Pangoro. And Having It In OU Will Be Nice, Since The New Satan In OU Will Be A New A+ or S Rank Attacker, Which We Need, It Will Also Be Able To Counter Landorus-I With It's Specially Defensive Set. A Nice Change Of Pace Will Be Added, Since Giratina-O Counters Talonshit In Many different Ways, In Taking It's BirdSpams And Flare Blitzes. I Think Giratina-O Should Be OU

 

[Dragongroudon9]

Alright, so this one is going to be a long one...

When I first saw this, and it was right after it was posted, I thought it was some April Fool's joke or whatever. I was thinking if this was to happen, OU would be completely changed, and not for the better. Then I started messing around with Giratina-O and I was really liking it. Seemed to make a good fit, nice wallbreaker, defogger, anything that you needed really. I built a couple teams around it, or maybe with it just being an add on, and I was liking how it fit. It seemed that no matter what role I had it doing, it was good at it. I played a couple of friends in some close competitive matches, and they were fun. I then decided to ladder, and knowing low ladder, I ran in to a lot of people without Giratina-O on their team. Some complained, but I thought it was pretty balanced. Made OU a lot easier that was for sure. But then, as I started battling more, I realized that this thing is pretty centralizing. I had to run some sort of switch in, or this thing would run through my team. Although this is normal for some Pokemon, I found that it just... made preparation more difficult. It definitely helped with checking/countering some major OU threats, like Landorus-I, but was hard to counter back itself. A couple of friends and I also realized that a lot of our teams that are non Giratina OU meta, (Over 100 for me), were useless now that Giratina was in OU. If you are required to run a certain Pokemon just to counter this thing, it is taking a room up on your 6 Pokemon team, now only giving you 5 slots to prepare for other threats. While I do think that with this thing not in OU, we will definitely require Landorus-I to be suspected, I just do not want to see this ruining the metagame. I am probably going to get nailed for saying that it is in Greninja in a way. I do not believe at all that they are similar stat wise/how they are used, I just think that you are requiring a certain Pokemon to beat it. While this is not in Greninja's case where you had to use something non OU or some ridiculous set, I still think that having to run Bisharp or Clefable (not even taking care of it in my book) to take care of it will make teambuilding less fun and creative. This is just my opinion so please don't go all crazy or anything, but I will definitely read other's opinions and see what they think of this.

PS: I am going to feel so freaking stupid if this turns out to be a joke suspect.
PSS: I was really deep in thought when I wrote this so hopefully it all makes sense and there are no grammatical mistakes.

 

[viol and bass]

One interesting mon I've been using as a Gira lure is Foul Play Diggersby. Remember how Mega Mawile was pissing everyone off because it got Huge Power Foul Play? The way Foul Play works is that it uses the opponent's attack stat but the user's item, burn status, and in the case of Huge / Pure Power, ability. So effectively when Diggersby uses Foul Play it doubles in power. This is great because people expect Gira to be a perfect switch-in since it's immune to Diggersby's STABs and resists its common coverage moves. Foul Play takes advantage of this by OHKOing max attack variants (even without rocks) and 2HKOing special attacking variants. It also outspeeds most of the Giratina sets that have been running around while being immune to Shadow Sneak. Try it out. Foul Play also pretty much maims everything offensive while his STABs and Fire Punch destroy most defensive mons.

Diggersby @ Life Orb
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Earthquake
- Foul Play
- Quick Attack / Fire Punch

 

[DJTHED]

So far, I haven't been too threatened by Giratina-O. I haven't played much yet, so I'm still low on the ladder, but Giratina hasn't been too much of a problem for me. I'm not sure if it's just because it's not as good as people think, or if it's how my team is built, but here's a decent match I had earlier:
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-221813190 (Should have had Talon Roost at the end of that battle to be safe, but oh well... dem' crits @_@)

I won't jump to conclusions and claim the Giratina-O won't possibly become broken later when people learn how to use this thing properly, so for now I'm just going to keep laddering until I think I've reached a conclusion.

 

[Darth Darkrai]

I Feel Having Giratina-O In The Tier Will Boost The Usage Factors Of Different Pokemon. By This I Mean Most Fairys Like Mega Gardevoir and Mixed Def Clefables. Having Such A Offensive And Possibly Defensive Threat Will Be A Nice Change To OU, Having The Devil In OU Will Allow Different Teams And Different Megas Get Some Time In The Spotlight, Like Mega-Lopunny And A Lot Of Different Scrappy Users, Like Pangoro. And Having It In OU Will Be Nice, Since The New Satan In OU Will Be A New A+ or S Rank Attacker, Which We Need, It Will Also Be Able To Counter Landorus-I With It's Specially Defensive Set. A Nice Change Of Pace Will Be Added, Since Giratina-O Counters Talonshit In Many different Ways, In Taking It's BirdSpams And Flare Blitzes. I Think Giratina-O Should Be OU

Okay, first off, why did you capitalize the first letter of every single word in your post. It makes it really annoying to read. Secondly, I don't know what meta you've been playing in, but I'm pretty sure Mega Gardevoir, Clefable, and Mega Lopunny are all pretty commonly used in OU already. In fact, the point of introducing Giratina would be to try to overcome the rut that OU is currently stuck in. While those Pokemon are not the biggest problems causing the meta to suck right now, they're still somewhat symptomatic. Right now, Fairies are pretty common in OU, Balance teams are the overwhelmingly common archetype, and the vast majority of the offensive teams that do exist are going to run either Mega Metagross or Mega Lopunny. It's the same teams over and over again. Aside from providing one more check to the S-rankers, exactly how does Giratina being unbanned change any of that? It won't even reduce the volume of Mega Metagross teams, because as people have been saying, MegaGross is actually an excellent partner for it.

Now, all that being said, I haven't really had the time to play much on the Suspect Ladder, so I can't really say too much concrete about its performance, but I expect its usage is going to once again force people into using specific teams in order to counter it. That's not what we want.

That said though, I've seen a few people on this thread complain that Giratina's already dominating the suspect ladder and showing up on the vast majority of teams, and using that as a reason against banning it. The thing is, this suspect ladder is intended specifically for people to test Giratina to see how it works. Of course you're gonna see a lot of it. That's not an argument against unbanning it. Any arguments regarding the suspect ladder ought to focus on how it's performing on the suspect ladder, not how much it's being used on it.

 

[Master B8s]

One interesting mon I've been using as a Gira lure is Foul Play Diggersby. Remember how Mega Mawile was pissing everyone off because it got Huge Power Foul Play? The way Foul Play works is that it uses the opponent's attack stat but the user's item, burn status, and in the case of Huge / Pure Power, ability. So effectively when Diggersby uses Foul Play it doubles in power. This is great because people expect Gira to be a perfect switch-in since it's immune to Diggersby's STABs and resists its common coverage moves. Foul Play takes advantage of this by OHKOing max attack variants (even without rocks) and 2HKOing special attacking variants. It also outspeeds most of the Giratina sets that have been running around while being immune to Shadow Sneak. Try it out. Foul Play also pretty much maims everything offensive while his STABs and Fire Punch destroy most defensive mons.

Diggersby @ Life Orb
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Earthquake
- Foul Play
- Quick Attack / Fire Punch

As disgusting as I found this considering Id rather want knock off in any other situation, I can't help but want to try this anyway, I really enjoyed the creativity here.