Inheritance [Prime Council Elected]

[CoolTrainerGary]

Metagross @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
Evs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def
Jolly Nature
- Iron head
- Zen Headbutt
- U-turn
- Trick

Just got completely skilled by this set in the 64 man tourney tonight: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-223155650
Yeah, running inner focus on my excadrill now instead of adaptability. Not really.

I've been running something quite similar (the main difference being that my set doesn't actually flinch things)

Genesect @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- U-turn
- Iron Head
- Ice Punch
- Healing Wish
-------------------------------------------------------------
Now I'm going to shit storm this thread with more of my sets

This is a Heatran set I'm very fond of as it is a top tier bird spam counter and Taunt+Toxic shuts down many gimmicky stall mons that would otherwise give me trouble (Stockpile Suicune...... don't ask)

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Flamethrower
- Toxic
-------------------------------------------------------------
I feel Starmie pulls off the best Tail Glow 3 attacks Manaphy inheritance as it includes dual STAB and Starmie is in a good speed tier

Starmie @ Life Orb
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Tail Glow
- Scald
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
------------------------------------------------------------
Kind of unorthodox and strange, but Lanturn inherited Raikou serves as a great offensive check to Primordial Sea users and bird spam.

Raikou @ Leftovers/Choice Specs/Expert Belt
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt

 

[Jack Dalton]

Well,snaq came up with a zapdos (salamence) to counter excadrill that might be able to wall...Please,time to use Pelipper

And as for MegaCham, I've been testing it, it's not too viable. Its too slow to successfully sweep, and either way, with all the priority in the metagame, it cant do much except espeed spam. I've been testing a ddance espeed set inheriting from dragonite (if you want multiscale),Zygarde (zen headbutt stab is useful), or rayquaza (v-create just for some power). Then there's the speed boost sets some people are using. However, once again, the priority is too much. I've been testing a protean set (fake out/drain punch/sucker punch/knock off, from kecleon), which works with moderate success (protean to dark,then spam knock off), but still doesnt work the best. If there's a niche right now for MegaCham, I dont think anyone has found it yet.

Why wouldn't you just go with Scrafty? I posted the first Megacham set a couple pages back where it inherits Dragon Dance, High Jump Kick, Zen Headbutt, and Knock Off from Scrafty. You also get your choice between Shed Skin or Intimidate pre mega.

Megacham set

Not sure if anyone's talked about this yet, but I've been having a lot of fun with this monster:

Medicham @ Medichamite
Ability: Shed Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- High Jump Kick
- Zen Headbutt
- Knock Off/Ice Punch

Scrafty is finally good for something! Inheriting from Scrafty allows Medicham to keep both its STABs in High Jump Kick and Zen Headbutt, while also giving it Dragon Dance and Knock Off. At +1, this thing is practically unstoppable, easily 2HKO'ing anything in the game. Even Unaware Suicune cannot switch into this thing, as HJK cleanly 2HKO's. Shed Skin pre-Mega gives you a chance to set up some Dragon Dances and cure any status in the meantime. It has a weakness to -atespeed and Gale Wings but those users certainly cannot switch in.

252+ Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Suicune: 255-300 (63.1 - 74.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 368-434 (82.8 - 97.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Knock Off vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Slowbro: 182-216 (46.1 - 54.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Good partners for this would be Gengar, who absolutely tears through anything that isn't OHKO'd by MegaCham with Adaptability.

 

[Imperator Romanum]

I've been running something quite similar

Genesect @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- U-turn
- Iron Head
- Ice Punch
- Healing Wish
-------------------------------------------------------------
Now I'm going to shit storm this thread with more of my sets

This is a Heatran set I'm very fond of as it is a top tier counter of bird spam and has great utility

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Taunt
- Stealth Rock
- Flamethrower
- Toxic
-------------------------------------------------------------
I feel Starmie pulls off the best Tail Glow 3 attacks Manaphy inheritance as it includes dual STAB and Starmie is in a good speed tier

Starmie @ Life Orb
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Tail Glow
- Scald
- Psychic
- Ice Beam
------------------------------------------------------------
Kind of unorthodox and strange, but Lanturn inherited Raikou serves as a great offensive check to Primordial Sea users and bird spam.

Raikou @ Leftovers/Choice Specs/Expert Belt
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt

Small nitpick, you should state that Raikou really shouldn't even attemt to switch into bird spam and should't be your only check. BB from Landorus does 68-80. Salamence only has a slight damage drop off. Mega Pinsir has a tiny chance to 2HKO after rocks with Espeed. Why wouldn't you want to inherit from Primal Ogre though?

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

Why wouldn't you just go with Scrafty? I posted the first Megacham set a couple pages back where it inherits Dragon Dance, High Jump Kick, Zen Headbutt, and Knock Off from Scrafty. You also get your choice between Shed Skin or Intimidate pre mega.

Apparently, weak to priority is very important. That's why some people prefer Mega Medicham run its own Extremespeed if it doesn't want to get revenged by priority.

 

[Red Cat]

Azelf @ Liechi Berry
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Work Up
- Natural Gift
- Thunderbolt
- Knock Off

Inspired by the Talonflame set in the main Smogon dex: Since any good defensive team should be running a Protean counter, there might be a niche for something that lures those in. Set up Work Up on the switch to their Protean Counter of choice, and:

+1 252 Atk Liechi Berry Protean Azelf Natural Gift (100 BP Grass) vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Manaphy: 348-410 (86.1 - 101.4%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Liechi Berry Protean Azelf Natural Gift (100 BP Grass) vs. 252 HP / 120+ Def Diancie: 282-332 (92.7 - 109.2%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO

Ideally, have rocks up. If you really just want to use this against defense, run Naughty to get a guaranteed OHKO on Diancie at +1 and a 68.8% chance to OHKO against Manaphy.

Thunderbolt and Knock Off have pretty decent neutral coverage after Liechi Berry gets used up. A mixed set lets you make the most out of Work Up. Run this to 'support' other Protean users. Don't switch into Knock Off.

You could also do Power Herb + Solar Beam on Azelf. At +1, Solar Beam OHKOs any Manaphy or Diance which isn't max special defense even without any special attack investment on Azelf. With special attack investment on Azelf, it is always a OHKO at +1 and max special attack (but with a speed boosting nature) Azelf can OHKO physically defensive variants of Diance and Manaphy without a boost. Liechi Berry can be useful for the possible attack boost if you don't run in to either Manaphy or Diance, but Solar Beam hits harder.

 

[WeLikeIke]

We all can't forget the monster that is Pikachu, can we?


Pikachu(Dragonite) @ Light Ball
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 ATK/ 252 SPE
Adamant Nature
- Thunder Punch
- Ice Punch
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance

With Multiscale, Pikachu actually has the ability to survive a hit for once which is nice. Priority kind of ruins its life so if you want to replace a move for extremespeed you can go right ahead, although its not going to survive for very long anyway.

 

[Akumeoy]

You could also do Power Herb + Solar Beam on Azelf. At +1, Solar Beam OHKOs any Manaphy or Diance which isn't max special defense even without any special attack investment on Azelf. With special attack investment on Azelf, it is always a OHKO at +1 and max special attack (but with a speed boosting nature) Azelf can OHKO physically defensive variants of Diance and Manaphy without a boost. Liechi Berry can be useful for the possible attack boost if you don't run in to either Manaphy or Diance, but Solar Beam hits harder.

You're right, that is better. In that case, I'd run a Specially oriented set that runs NP+Fire Blast+Knock Off to beat Chansey, since we're already going with lure sets:

+2 252 SpA Protean Azelf Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Chansey: 336-396 (47.7 - 56.2%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO << Knock Eviolite Off, come back later probably, set up Nasty Plot and maybe 2HKO with Fire Blast. Modest can be used to guarantee that 2HKO (unless they're running fully Special Defense investment).

A really gimmicky Protean accessory that just occurred to me is a boosting set that runs Skill Swap to force Unaware users out, but two-move coverage isn't really in the Protean spirit, y'know?

 

[Lcass4919]

You're right, that is better. In that case, I'd run a Specially oriented set that runs NP+Fire Blast+Knock Off to beat Chansey, since we're already going with lure sets:

+2 252 SpA Protean Azelf Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Chansey: 336-396 (47.7 - 56.2%) -- 82.4% chance to 2HKO << Knock Eviolite Off, come back later probably, set up Nasty Plot and maybe 2HKO with Fire Blast. Modest can be used to guarantee that 2HKO (unless they're running fully Special Defense investment).

A really gimmicky Protean accessory that just occurred to me is a boosting set that runs Skill Swap to force Unaware users out, but two-move coverage isn't really in the Protean spirit, y'know?

well to be fair, protean can do pretty well with just boltbeam so skill swap COULD serve as a decent lure...just remember your forced into psychic type after the swap(so the initial nasty plot tbolt/ice beam is only like...~1.5x stronger then it was before) so in reality its probably a waste of time using skill swap, especially since stall usually runs more then 1 bulky poke, and if they have toxic/scald, its going to manage to outstall you via switching out and back in.

 

[InfernapeTropius11]

Here is a set that is underated..
Pokemon: Venusaur
Inherits from Serperior
Item: Choice Scarf
Abilty: Contrary
EVS 252 Speed 252 SpA 4 SpD
Nature: Timid
Moveset: Leaf Storm Dragon Pulse Synthesis Leech Seed
It Can Sweep through Teams it's power from Leaf Storm and has Dragon Pulse as an option for some pokemon if you need a quick pokemon but you are dealing with some pokemon who resist grass. It is a Great Sweeper late game when the the pokemon that resist grass have been elimated.

It's probably not best to run Synthesis/Leech Seed with a Choice Scarf equipped. I would recommend HP Ground/Fire and Giga Drain, or better yet, change the item to Life Orb to let that set reach its maximum potential.

 

[Adrian Marin]

I know many will probably disagree with me, but hear me out.

Arena Trap may not be the most useful ability, but it appears to be quite unhealthy. As someone stated earlier, Arena Trap users are capable of disposing of walls with ease. While this alone isn't a good argument, let's remember the sheer variety and unexpectedness of this metagame. Arena Trap performs ideally against stall and balanced; as such, Arena Trap's apparent unhealthiness is rather unexplored. One may even choose to use a Grass-type such as Shaymin or Roserade to use Arena Trap in conjunction with Giga Drain (inheriting from Trapinch) to defeat walls such as Suicune, Rhyperior, and Diancie. Let's compare Gothitelle to Arena Trap: Gothitelle rose to OU with just Shadow Tag alone, and while many may find Gothitelle to not be centralising enough to warrant a ban, it's very different in Arena Trap's case; let's just call this Gothitelle's legacy, as trap abilities seem to be viable everywhere. Arena Trap's variety, unpredictability, and capability of dispatching walls with ease justifies a suspect in my opinion.

 

[Rhayader]

I know many will probably disagree with me, but hear me out.

Arena Trap may not be the most useful ability, but it appears to be quite unhealthy. As someone stated earlier, Arena Trap users are capable of disposing of walls with ease. While this alone isn't a good argument, let's remember the sheer variety and unexpectedness of this metagame. Arena Trap performs ideally against stall and balanced; as such, Arena Trap's apparent unhealthiness is rather unexplored. One may even choose to use a Grass-type such as Shaymin or Roserade to use Arena Trap in conjunction with Giga Drain (inheriting from Trapinch) to defeat walls such as Suicune, Rhyperior, and Diancie. Let's compare Gothitelle to Arena Trap: Gothitelle rose to OU with just Shadow Tag alone, and while many may find Gothitelle to not be centralising enough to warrant a ban, it's very different in Arena Trap's case; let's just call this Gothitelle's legacy, as trap abilities seem to be viable everywhere. Arena Trap's variety, unpredictability, and capability of dispatching walls with ease justifies a suspect in my opinion.

Allow me to disagree; While Arena Trap's presence on a mon could be unexpected, the movepools of both trappers are hideously shallow, being entirely physical with some very insignifcant exceptions (Trapinch gets Giga Drain, Signal Beam and Gust while Dugtrio gets Sludge Bomb+Wave and Tri Attack, great coverage moves just putting this here), and Dugtrio having a relatively small niche in Final Gambit, which can be barely be run on offensive mons, you're saccing and it has to switch in safely unless you want to risk it even further. I don't really think there's "unhealthiness to explore", its just another threat you have to account for, and guess what, if you're running stall in the first place that's a big threat for you just like an Unaware wall is a threat to offense.

 

[Isa Simple]

If people are honestly having so much trouble with trappers, just run shed shell on anything that you deem vulnerable.

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

So the first person to complain about Arena Trap is a Stall player, huh?

I fail to see how Arena Trap is banworthy when the only thing that is has is that damn Final Gambit. It has no Taunt, no Trick/Switcheroo, no quick boosting move like Swords Dance or Nasty Plot, no reliable recovery move. All it has is a single status move and some attacking moves that are not even that strong.

If people have trouble with that, either run Shed Shell, or just a simple Protect. A single Protect will ruin Final Gambit. It has almost no tool for Stallbreaking outside of that damn move that costs your own poke. Its really overrated imo.

Just ban Assist. Its far more broken and annoying than Arena Trap in almost every way.

 

[DinaIsha]

I think I've made a wonderful team. I might make an RMT later when I have more time. In the meantime, kindly watch a sample replay and see if you like it. I may not really get a high place in the ladder because I lost a lot of matches in the beginning when I was messing around with sets and I'm not too keen to create a new alt just for the sake of laddering, but I think it's a great team for anyone willing to.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-223245172

Note that I also beat the then #2 ladder alt "Rhayader" with the same team, but forgot to save the replay. That was pretty much along the same lines of the above replay too, so not much is missing.

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

I think I've made a wonderful team. I might make an RMT later when I have more time. In the meantime, kindly watch a sample replay and see if you like it. I may not really get a high place in the ladder because I lost a lot of matches in the beginning when I was messing around with sets and I'm not too keen to create a new alt just for the sake of laddering, but I think it's a great team for anyone willing to.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/inheritance-223245172

Note that I also beat the then #2 ladder alt "Rhayader" with the same team, but forgot to save the replay. That was pretty much along the same lines of the above replay too, so not much is missing.

Nice to see a Mega Medicham user. How viable do you think it is? What set are you currently using?

 

[Throbulator36]

I'm gonna point out that the only arguments I've seen for arena trap are bad(note that I have no real position on this)

Allow me to disagree; While Arena Trap's presence on a mon could be unexpected, the movepools of both trappers are hideously shallow, being entirely physical with some very insignifcant exceptions (Trapinch gets Giga Drain, Signal Beam and Gust while Dugtrio gets Sludge Bomb+Wave and Tri Attack, great coverage moves just putting this here), and Dugtrio having a relatively small niche in Final Gambit, which can be barely be run on offensive mons, you're saccing and it has to switch in safely unless you want to risk it even further. I don't really think there's "unhealthiness to explore", its just another threat you have to account for, and guess what, if you're running stall in the first place that's a big threat for you just like an Unaware wall is a threat to offense.

the only difference is that you can beat unaware. the only thing you can do vs arena trap is die.

If people are honestly having so much trouble with trappers, just run shed shell on anything that you deem vulnerable.

the only stall mons that aren't weak to arena trap are levitate doublade and jellicent(lol)

 

[DinaIsha]

Nice to see a Mega Medicham user. How viable do you think it is? What set are you currently using?

Inherited from Scrafty. Intimidate Pre-Mega (In the replay it's Shed Skin, I've changed now). Dragon Dance/HJK/Zen Headbutt/KOff. With all the Unaware mons and Ghosts running around, Mega Medicham finds its use naturally. I have a 252 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos to deal with Birdspam too.

 

[Dratios]

Remembering the sheer power of STABmons Sableye Prankster Dark Void and Topsy-Turvy, I think that Mega Banette inheriting from the Pokemon that get those would be somewhat effective.

(Inherited from Darkrai)
Banette @ Banettite
Ability: Bad Dreams --> Prankster
Adamant Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
- Dark Void
- Swords Dance
- Shadow Claw
- Drain Punch

(Inherited from Malamar)
Banette @ Banettite
Ability: Contrary --> Prankster
Adamant Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
- Topsy-Turvy
- Superpower / Psycho Cut
- Knock Off
- Destiny Bond

 

[Imperator Romanum]

Nice to see a Mega Medicham user. How viable do you think it is? What set are you currently using?

It's very viable and hits extremely hard. Though, surprisingly, not as good at dealing with stall as you'd think.

If people are honestly having so much trouble with trappers, just run shed shell on anything that you deem vulnerable.

Yeah, let's run Protect on everything and shed shell, now it's centralising as hell and stall is even more difficult.

So the first person to complain about Arena Trap is a Stall player, huh?

I fail to see how Arena Trap is banworthy when the only thing that is has is that damn Final Gambit. It has no Taunt, no Trick/Switcheroo, no quick boosting move like Swords Dance or Nasty Plot, no reliable recovery move. All it has is a single status move and some attacking moves that are not even that strong.

If people have trouble with that, either run Shed Shell, or just a simple Protect. A single Protect will ruin Final Gambit. It has almost no tool for Stallbreaking outside of that damn move that costs your own poke. Its really overrated imo.

Just ban Assist. Its far more broken and annoying than Arena Trap in almost every way.

There's also no way around it besides centralising the entire metagame. A player who uses Final gambit will without failure take out one of your pokemon, for example taking out your Chansey making you vulnerable to Protean or Sheer force. Now you're sweep, no way around it. Can also use Magnet pull to take out any levitating Steel type to make you vulnerable to -Ate abilities.

 

[Chopin Alkaninoff]

It's very viable and hits extremely hard. Though, surprisingly, not as good at dealing with stall as you'd think.




Yeah, let's run Protect on everything and shed shell, now it's centralising as hell and stall is even more difficult.



There's also no way around it besides centralising the entire metagame. A player who uses Final gambit will without failure take out one of your pokemon, for example taking out your Chansey making you vulnerable to Protean or Sheer force. Now you're sweep, no way around it. Can also use Magnet pull to take out any levitating Steel type to make you vulnerable to -Ate abilities.

If it centralizes that much, then OU Gothitelle would've been banned long time ago. It has much wider movepool and it doesn't just take out one stallmon, since it doesn't have to die, unlike Arena Trap. It also got the tools to Stallbreak in Trick and Taunt. Arena Trap has much less movepool and you have to sacrifice one poke. How is that centralizing?

Edit: now that I realized it, I'll just use OU Gothitelle to stallbreak instead of running shit like Scarf Blissey.

 

[Jaguar360]

The problem with rapid spin is that its just not very good in terms of movepools. Defog is superior in pretty much every way; rapid spin is very limiting on offensive teams and therefore is not as good in general.

I highly disagree with this. Rapid Spin is needed on teams that needs their hazards up on the opponent's side, but not theirs, especially on teams with Pokemon that need Stealth Rock to get specific 2HKOs or on Sticky Web / Spikes teams. And there are very viable Spinners in Inheritance that are difficult to spinblock. For example:

Good spinners

Greninja @ Life Orb
Ability: Mega Launcher
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- Rapid Spin
- Aura Sphere
Inheriting from Blastoise, this Greninja set beats spinblockers with ease thanks to STAB Mega Launcher Dark Pulse. Greninja's speed and ability to force switches also allow it spin pretty much whenever it gets in.

Slowbro @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure / Analytic
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Psyshock
- Recover
- Rapid Spin
Slowbro is a more bulky approach on spinning for balanced teams. With reliable recovery, it can stick around throughout the match to spin hazards away while checking physical attackers. It doesn't have many specific anti-spinblocking tools, but its Psyshock will beat Gengar on the switch and other Ghosts must be wary of Scald burns.

Tyranitar @ Leftovers
Ability: Battle Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Rapid Spin
- Stealth Rock
- Rock Blast / Stone Edge
- Knock Off
Inheriting from Armaldo, this T-tar set provides a mix of bulk and power while giving both Rapid Spin and Stealth Rock support. STAB Knock Off beats any spinblocker not named Mega Sableye (which doesn't seem that good in this metagame anyway) and is both a useful utility move and strong attack.

The Drapion set inherited from Cryogonal from last page was pretty good too.

I'm not claiming that this is viable, I just want to know whether I'm applying Inheritance correctly.

Having played with Drapion before I don't like his Ground weakness or lack of recovery.

Since Cryagonal has neither problem, I can improve Drapion by inheritance.

Drapion @ Black Sludge
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def (Teambuilder suggested this)
Impish Nature
- Knock Off
- Poison Jab
- Recover
- Ice Shard / Rapid Spin / Substitute / Explosion / Confuse Ray

tl;dr Spinning is good

 

[Tarontos]

What do you guys think of Yveteal as a donor, with a power boosted sucker punch it has access to the same power priority Ate Speed and doesn't need to take up a mega slot to do it. Tyranitar could make a nifty abuser with descent bulk More power than yvetal on its sucker punch

Tyranitar @ Life Orb
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Rock Slide
- U-turn/Knock Off
- Roost/Hone Claws/Taunt/Knock Off

Honchkrow @ Life Orb
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Oblivion Wing
- U-turn
- Roost/Hone Claws/Taunt/Knock Off

Both of these hit increadibly hard with Stab Aura sucker punch
Deal deacent damage with a secondary Stab
And U-turn to deal damage to the couple of things that wall them and garner momentum
Utility move

Thoughts

 

[Lcass4919]

So the first person to complain about Arena Trap is a Stall player, huh?

I fail to see how Arena Trap is banworthy when the only thing that is has is that damn Final Gambit. It has no Taunt, no Trick/Switcheroo, no quick boosting move like Swords Dance or Nasty Plot, no reliable recovery move. All it has is a single status move and some attacking moves that are not even that strong.

If people have trouble with that, either run Shed Shell, or just a simple Protect. A single Protect will ruin Final Gambit. It has almost no tool for Stallbreaking outside of that damn move that costs your own poke. Its really overrated imo.

Just ban Assist. Its far more broken and annoying than Arena Trap in almost every way.

alright, then allow me, as an offensive AND stall player, explain from both facing AND using arena trap on how it is broken.

first off: who cares if it doesnt have taunt, trick, or whatever else. just because it doesnt have a rainbow of options, doesnt mean its suddenly "terrible", it basically "forces"a pokemon of your opponents choice to lose. all trapinch needs is EQ, Superpower, crunch, and rock slide(dont think it gets stone edge) and you have a wallbreaker that shits on stall. sure say "run shed shell" all you want, but then why not unban shadow tag for the same reason? why dont we give everything access to wonder guard, and just tell people "run phasing+leech seed" yeah. because that suddenly makes it okay.

now, for final gambit, do you know how convenient it is to eliminate an offensive players checks? for example, i have landorus therian with gale wings, and on your offensive team, you run idk..diance as a check. i send lando in, and you switch into diance as i u-turn into wailord with final gambit. bam, you lose. horrid example, but it has happened to me many times with my wailord team. and run protect...yeah..."its not OP, running ---- stops it!" protect is a horrible "filler move" to put on offensive teams. also lets not forget running protect on 6 mons is pretty counter intuitive for stall. since you know...they have control over what dies and all...

and lastly, assist isn't broken! just run taunt/flash fire! and it only has access to assist! not banworthy! god. before you counter argue, think about what your saying. assist falls into your categories just as easily. "not many options?" check. "one simple way to stop it" check. "horribly gimmicky" check. yep you sure convinced us to not ban it.

 

[Jaguar360]

What do you guys think of Yveteal as a donor, with a power boosted sucker punch it has access to the same power priority Ate Speed and doesn't need to take up a mega slot to do it. Tyranitar could make a nifty abuser with descent bulk More power than yvetal on its sucker punch

Tyranitar @ Life Orb
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Rock Slide
- U-turn/Knock Off
- Roost/Hone Claws/Taunt/Knock Off

Honchkrow @ Life Orb
Ability: Dark Aura
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Sucker Punch
- Oblivion Wing
- U-turn
- Roost/Hone Claws/Taunt/Knock Off

Both of these hit increadibly hard with Stab Aura sucker punch
Deal deacent damage with a secondary Stab
And U-turn to deal damage to the couple of things that wall them and garner momentum
Utility move

Thoughts

Yveltal is definitely a solid donor for both Tyranitar and Honchkrow. Just make sure to change Honchkrow's nature to Naughty or Lonely and change the spread to 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe.

 

[lordmagecar]

Okay, here's my opinion:

A+-----A

Suicune really isnt A+ material in my opinion. There are no stall mons in A+ other than suicune, and Suicune really isnt as good as chansey or cressila. A more offensive QD suicune is still much easier to take care of than other A+ threats like Pinsir.

Also,

B------B+

Mamoswine is REALLY powerful with refridgerate. It's an amazing wallbreaker, with very strong dual-stabs with return and EQ. WIth how common lando-T is, I feel Mamoswine is a step ahead of its "collegues" in B, such as celibi and mega pidgeot.