Battle Spot Singles Viability Rankings!

[PPB]

Creeper3971
PPB About moody glalie im a bit doubting because I dont really have a problem with dealing it. You just have to keep giving offensive pressure, best whith a pokemon that resists ice like aegislash. Also sheer cold is not affected by accuracy boosts, as a lot of people always think. The OHKO moves dont work like that. Moody is also unreliable because you will never know what it raises and lowers and if you are a bit unlucky you will see that lowers its defense and you can break the subs more easily or ko it with a priority move or something like that.

I know this about OHKO moves; the problem is that with enough evasion and defense boosts Glalie gets a ton of opportunities for Sheer Cold to hit (especially if the subs don't break). The role of Sheer Cold on Glalie isn't to be accurate but to allow it to get past threats that can't be KO'd by a boosted Ice attack. Furthermore the flipside is that if accuracy is lowered by Moody, Glalie can still spam Sheer Cold. Certainly Glalie might be unreliable and probably doesn't merit much use on its own but the real question here is whether with proper team support (Yawn, Memento, Swaggerplay, etc) it is threatening enough to merit a ranking, and it seems to me that it is. The best way to answer this question, however, would be to ask someone who has used Moody Glalie. Aegislash is actually one of the best checks because of its access to Sacred Sword, unless it gets unlucky with Sheer Cold, but the fact that there is a great check to it doesn't necessarily make Glalie unviable.

 

[Disconnectedamilliontimes]

I know this about OHKO moves; the problem is that with enough evasion and defense boosts Glalie gets a ton of opportunities for Sheer Cold to hit (especially if the subs don't break). The role of Sheer Cold on Glalie isn't to be accurate but to allow it to get past threats that can't be KO'd by a boosted Ice attack. Furthermore the flipside is that if accuracy is lowered by Moody, Glalie can still spam Sheer Cold. Certainly Glalie might be unreliable and probably doesn't merit much use on its own but the real question here is whether with proper team support (Yawn, Memento, Swaggerplay, etc) it is threatening enough to merit a ranking, and it seems to me that it is. The best way to answer this question, however, would be to ask someone who has used Moody Glalie. Aegislash is actually one of the best checks because of its access to Sacred Sword, unless it gets unlucky with Sheer Cold, but the fact that there is a great check to it doesn't necessarily make Glalie unviable.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Sheer Cold unaffected by accuracy/evasion changes?
Yeah I know this is a one-liner. Sorry

 

[Hulavuta]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Sheer Cold unaffected by accuracy/evasion changes?
Yeah I know this is a one-liner. Sorry

Yeah it is, and that's what he's saying. He mentioned evasion giving Glalie more opportunities to survive turns, and that Glalie still has the same chance for Sheer Cold despite accuracy drops. Accuracy and Evasion help in those ways, even if it doesn't directly affect Sheer Cold.

Don't worry about one liners either, if it's a legit question ;)

Anyway now that I'm posting here, I guess I'll just say that I think Moody Glalie is quite viable if still extremely luck based. For the most part it is reliable though, so I'd like to see it ranked. Another thing we need to consider is that Glalie can be useful to a team just by being on it, it will force your opponent to choose Pokemon that can deal with it, which you can take advantage of.

 

[PPB]

On second thought, Aegislash doesn't match up very well. Blade form dies to Frost Breath really quickly, while King's Shield is a free sub. I... learned this the hard way.

Maybe sub Heatran is the way to go.

 

[iPlum]

If it's ok, id like to nominate Gliscor for C rank. Firstly, it is a great defensive wall, checking some threats like talonflame and mega salamence. These calcumalations show how well Gliscor takes some attacks.

252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gliscor: 76-91 (41.7 - 50%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Poison Heal
+1 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gliscor: 219-258 (61.8 - 72.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gliscor: 145-172 (40.9 - 48.5%) -- 99.7% chance to 3HKO after Poison Heal

Now consider the fact that gliscor sets with toxic usually carry protect for extra recovery. When an extra 12.5% health is added to Gliscor, the 3HKOs turn into 4HKOs and the 2HKO from Mega Salamence is not guaranteed. This allows gliscor to get a safe toxic off on threats and somewhat stall them to near yellow health or even lower in the cases of talonflame or non DD Mega Salamence. This allows for revenge killers to quickly finish off the weakened threats. Considering these calcs are based on some of the most damaging physical attackers in the battle spot metagame, it is more than likely that gliscor can hard counter many physical attackers without super effective moves. Heres an example of a hard countered pokemon.

252 Atk Landorus-T Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gliscor: 73-87 (20.6 - 24.5%) -- possible 8HKO after Poison Heal. <<< This guy no like Gliscor.

The problem is, gliscor can subtoxic stall most things slower than it, but anything with a strong special attack that outspeeds it, (which is pretty easy cus my calcs have been based on 0 speed gliscors) causes it great trouble. On top of that, Ferrothorn gives gliscor competition for a physical wall in that it has iron barbs and generally superior defensive stats and typing. Still, it definitely works as a physical wall and can function with relatively little support, so i think it can be considered for a C rank.

 

[iPledge]

Omastar For D/D+?
With Specs 252+ spA Omastar can prove to be a very suprisingly useful mon in BS if used in the right times, many things that switch in and get 2HKO by it including Kanga, Mega Gardevoir, Mega Mawille, Azumarill to name a few big threats ¬
252+ SpA Choice Specs Omastar Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Gardevoir: 153-180 (55.2 - 64.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Omastar Scald vs. 248 HP / 244 SpD Mega Mawile: 162-192 (53.4 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Omastar Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Kangaskhan: 198-234 (56.4 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Omastar Ancient Power vs. 88 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 178-211 (49 - 58.1%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO

And Omastar even OKHO's a lot of threats in the tier either on switch in, or just surviving a hit due to its respectable bulk such as Garchomp, Talonflame, Breloom(providing only on switch in), Mega Salemnece just as a minor set of these ¬
252+ SpA Choice Specs Omastar Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Garchomp: 676-796 (160.9 - 189.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Omastar Ancient Power vs. 0 HP / 0- SpD Mega Salamence: 360-426 (108.7 - 128.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Omastar Scald vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Talonflame: 534-630 (179.7 - 212.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

It counters one of the most used pokemon Talonflame beatifully as its two stabs are both 2x and 4x not very effective against it doing tiny damage as shown below ¬
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Omastar: 97-114 (34.5 - 40.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Omastar: 48-57 (17 - 20.2%) -- possible 5HKO

Omastar is very bulky defensively and suprisingly takes a hit from big powerhouses in the tier including Mega Kanga, taking it down from FULL health to about 10% when you use a rocky helmet variant of omastar with a hydro pump, leaving it in range for another mon to come in and kill, Omastar also tanks a +1 earthquake (providing they dont get a very high roll) from mega Salamence with a naive nature, and even has a chance to survive with an adamant nature leaving it able to kill easily with an ice beam ¬
+1 252 Atk Mega Salamence Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Omastar: 292-344 (84.8 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

Although omastar can hit hard and take physical attacks, it does have a few weaknessess, its typing leaves it 4x vulnerable to grass so Breloom and ferrothorn OHKO it, and also with it not being the best in special defense, if your opponant is heavily invested, most of the time it will be OHKO as it lacks the speed to beat them to an attack, but if used in the right situations, the sheer suprise factor alone with good plays on the side, can help secure a win in this tier. Theres also the achievement of having beaten these Titans using an omastar. Thank you for reading :]

 

[iPlum]

What if I was to tell u, all of my calcs were based on lvl 100s and not lvl 50s..... ;-; I try to do something good and it backfires xD.

 

[GateCreeper]

I agree on the Omastar ranking, but I feel Gliscor should be a bit higher, like B- or C+ at the lowest. Sure, Gliscor gets destroyed by (insert strong special attacker here), but it simply can rely on its most common part member, Chansey, to sponge special hits. Gliscor is almost a staple on stall teams, due to its ability to toxic stall and good synergy with other stall teammates. Gliscor can also sacrifice some bulk for speed, outspeeding threats that it needs to successfully toxic stall. It also has Guillotine for those steels that it can't beat with EQ or Toxic and can wall(bulky M-Scizor and M-Aggrons lacking Ice Punch comes to mind). I don't have much experience with it, but I hate fighting it. That's just my opinion.

 

[iPlum]

I agree on the Omastar ranking, but I feel Gliscor should be a bit higher, like B- or C+ at the lowest. Sure, Gliscor gets destroyed by (insert strong special attacker here), but it simply can rely on its most common part member, Chansey, to sponge special hits. Gliscor is almost a staple on stall teams, due to its ability to toxic stall and good synergy with other stall teammates. Gliscor can also sacrifice some bulk for speed, outspeeding threats that it needs to successfully toxic stall. It also has Guillotine for those steels that it can't beat with EQ or Toxic and can wall(bulky M-Scizor and M-Aggrons lacking Ice Punch comes to mind). I don't have much experience with it, but I hate fighting it. That's just my opinion.

Thank you for your opinion :D. I do agree that Gliscor can make up for its bad special defence with a partner. Honestly I may have ranked it harshly due to the fact that it has big competition as a defensive wall from stuff like ferrothorn and i personally would opt for ferrothorn. However I agree with everything you said so it probably would be B- or C+.

 

[iPlum]

Ima do another post now cus I've started doing them already. This may sound kinda crazy, but i think whimsicott could be A rank if not B+. Just from my personal experience, there is almost no pokemon that can stop whimsicott from doing at least something to support the team because of its varied move pool and prankster. Common sets like subseed may be predictable but when combined with prankster, it can still work well; especially if the opponent switches out and chooses no grass types :}, or you can even encore trap them and be evil. However my favourite set is memento. This is because when used with prankster, only talonflame (due to faster priority) can really avoid having its attack and special attack dropped. This allows for attackers to become set-up fodder (encore can also be used to help set-up too). While this can be alleviated by the opponent switching out, its still one free turn of set-up which the opponent wishes you didn't have. Additionally, whimsicott can be used defensively. It has access to cotton guard, which when used provides whimsicott with a defence higher than that of mega steelix.

252+ Atk Mega Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. +3 252 HP / 252+ Def Whimsicott: 162-192 (50 - 59.2%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery <<<the lefties give whimsicott more defence :DDD.
252+ Atk Mega Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Steelix: 194-230 (54.8 - 64.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I have also seen attacking sets but tbh, i think they're a bit bleh.

This to me shows how whimsicott has a niche in that it can always support the team due to how surprisingly unpredictable it can be. The only thing that can counter it fully is talonflame due to the opponent not knowing what to expect. I may have been generous in ranking but it just seems like a unique pokemon unrivalled in the way it functions.

 

[freekhoorn]

Thank you for your opinion :D. I do agree that Gliscor can make up for its bad special defence with a partner. Honestly I may have ranked it harshly due to the fact that it has big competition as a defensive wall from stuff like ferrothorn and i personally would opt for ferrothorn. However I agree with everything you said so it probably would be B- or C+.

I also agree for gliscor going to B ranking. Ferrothorn is in some situations even worse than gliscor as a physical wall. Talonflame and blaziken do a lot of damage with fire stabs against ferrothorn, and those two pokemon are very common mons, they both belong in top 12 at the moment. Another thing is that ferrothorn is open to statuses like sleep (yawn and hypnosis only of course), burn and paralyzing, while gliscor with toxic orb is immune to all statuses cause it already has the toxic status. Another thing is that gliscor always gets its recovery with its ability toxic heal, while ferrothorn not always can manage a leech seed, for example to grass pokemon or magic guard pokemon like reuniclus.

 

[mertyville]

What are your thoughts on Mega Latias? I think the Dual STAB calm minder could work wonders on non-Ttar/Aegislash teams for instands.

 

[Theorymon]

Not really a viability ranking guy, but I think Wobbuffet should probably be placed somewhere since its been getting more common recently because of Mega Gengar + Perish Trap strategies.

Not really sure where to place Wobbuffet though. Maybe C+ or B-? Its a very very specific Pokemon (you pretty much have to sorta build your team around Wobbuffet + Mega Gengar), but oh boy those two can be a REALLY nasty duo, and can even work alone depending on the team (though they should both be on the same team regardless, its nice for when you want to bench Wobbuffet or Mega Gengar but not both).

 

[Feliburn]

Completely forgot to post the update despite this being updated some time ago, sorry if I confused anyone!

Diggersby: Unranked --> C+ Rank
Infernape: Unranked --> B- Rank
Mega Steelix: D Rank --> D+ Rank
Sylveon: Unranked --> B Rank
Mega Pinsir: Unranked --> C+ Rank
Raikou: Unranked --> B Rank
Weavile: Unranked --> B Rank
Scolipede: Unranked --> C- Rank
Serperior: C Rank --> B- Rank
Suicune: B+ Rank --> A- Rank
Gengar (& Mega): A Rank --> A+ Rank

 

[Shyfire]

Not really a viability ranking guy, but I think Wobbuffet should probably be placed somewhere since its been getting more common recently because of Mega Gengar + Perish Trap strategies.

Not really sure where to place Wobbuffet though. Maybe C+ or B-? Its a very very specific Pokemon (you pretty much have to sorta build your team around Wobbuffet + Mega Gengar), but oh boy those two can be a REALLY nasty duo, and can even work alone depending on the team (though they should both be on the same team regardless, its nice for when you want to bench Wobbuffet or Mega Gengar but not both).

Wobbuffet is a never interesting 'mon. Its not bad by any means but its very situational/circumstantial. Its also not a mon that fits well on every team and you can't just throw it in there. It really needs to be the focus of your team or it won't end up doing much in most cases. When wob does get that chance it strikes up terror left and right. And yes I have been swept by the Wob- Mega Gar core and it is nasty. You can't really neglect that fact that more and more teams are coming prepared for Mega Car and trappers in general. It think it would be good enough for C+

 

[Misaka Mikoto]

Mega Houndoom [Unrank -> C+ Rank]

My thoughts: So far I'm pretty impressed with how Houndoom fairs in Battle Spot Singles. Also, yes I have been using it "in-game" for the past few weeks along with me running into some Houndoom users myself. I have to say I kind of underestimated Mega Houndoom's capabilities because I often forget it has a Mega Evolution (well I forget that it does all the time). To be honest I do see it as a threat, not only through Nasty Plot, but but also dangerous under sunlight, hence Solar Power. I even encountered one with Drought Ninetails and it ended in my entire team being swept by it because its Special Attack get a boost. Pretty much Fire Blast gets a boost cause of STAB, sunlight, and Solar Power. (Sadly for its ability to work). It even ended up OHKOing my Mega Kangaskhan (I actually expected for it to live at least one Fire Blast). Its base 115 Speed is kind of overlooked but it can outspeed many threats under Mega Houndoom's Speed with the exception of Choice Scarf users. This does allow it to become a suicide Pokemon becuase it knows the move, Destiny Bond. I see Destiny Bond as being used to not only throw opponents off guard because they usually expect a sweeping set, rather they do switch their Pokemon out, only to be predicted by a Nasty Plot. So it is pretty much either stay in and get rid of it, thus getting rid of you as well, or play it safe and switch out, only to realize you'll be set up upon. Kind of like the mindgame type of aspect. The crap part about Mega Houndoom is that in some battles, I had to put it in against a Pokemon that I think I will start dealing a ton of damage against after getting a Nasty Plot off. It is rather difficult to get around other megas that outspeed Houndoom before it mega evolves, so I had to waste a moveslot on Protect, nor is Mega Houndoom really bulky to take several hits. However, Mega Houndoom is a weird and tough Mega to use. I'm sorry but Mega Houndoom is outclassed by Mega Charizard Y in almost every way.

 

[GroudonEmpire]

I hate viability and letter rankings because when I use the crap that's s rank I perform the poorest or on par with things that are even c- or below.
Forget about seeing Rhyperior and Musharna vs 193x+ rated opponents as well as Lapras.

Nonetheless, Glalie has been the most reliable stall breaker I've ever used in the format (and I've used plenty) and even though my team has not been built around this mon at all whatsoever, it still is the most 2nd most used mon on my team after Cress! My team has a Khan that the team was based on and that lil crapper is almost never used. Theoretically, it makes sense to see it S rank but this Mon has never done me anything or showed me anything that others can't do after it lost Seismic Toss. Also, Glalie has even crapped on SubToxic Aegis AND Sacred Sword Aegis with the omnipresent support in Cress. Aegislash has also been a Mon I've used and have not gotten reliable results from. How the hell is a Moody OHKO user more reliable than these S rank-in-theory mons? It is clearly the best Stall breaker EVER! Should be somewhere A- rank or higher imo.

I don't know how viability rankings work but I nominate Cress for S++ or some crap somewhere highest on the thing all on its own above all as the undisputed Queen of Battle Spot Single and I don't feel Khan is all that with the loss of Seismic Toss and should be somewhere in A. Gengar-Mega should be S rank imo. I don't know what to say it's more metadefining and versatile than Khan.

 

[Hulavuta]

I can agree to that honestly, I don't find Aegislash worthy of S-Rank at all either. I am curious to hear what other people think though, considering Aegislash has so many different viable sets. Which one do you guys find is S-Rank? I don't find it bad, but certainly not at all metagame defining, which is what S-Rank should be.

Kangaskhan I still think is very good though, although I would say its prominence has been a little worn down as there are many more megas to choose from, so it has harder competition for a teamslot. Lopunny gives it pretty strong competition, just in the Mega Normal category. I think it's still good but maybe not S-Rank either.

I can't agree with Cress for S-Rank though, I never seem to have any problems with her and it's not so easy to make her work. Though, this could just be due to me always using Tyranitar or Hydreigon on every team. It is a great wall that can pretty much deal with anything unboosted though, so I'm not totally against it being S-Rank. I'd like to see more arguments again.

Mega Gengar is what I could agree with for S. It's absolutely amazing with support and can basically eliminate any one, or sometimes even two, threats for you. You can basically tailor it to whatever you want, there's nothing that's really this versatile and reliable. And, thanks to Shadow Tag, it cannot be countered. It also fits on most teams and is a great partner to just about everything.

 

[PPB]

Kangaskhan I still think is very good though, although I would say its prominence has been a little worn down as there are many more megas to choose from, so it has harder competition for a teamslot. Lopunny gives it pretty strong competition, just in the Mega Normal category. I think it's still good but maybe not S-Rank either

I don't think Kang has really fallen that much from prominence; it's still the third most used Pokemon, which is pretty amazing since its usage is naturally diminished by the fact that it pretty much needs its mega stone to be viable (unlike Gengar, the second most used Pokemon, who can also run sash, lefties (with sub), etc). As a normal-type, it is actually quite versatile, has an immense movepool, and can even go special (though I wouldn't recommend it) to ruin things like Mence with Ice Beam, etc; the standard set is just so good that other sets don't really see a lot of usage. Its bulk is great so it almost always gets a chance to set up, it can tear a giant hole in a team quite easily, and since it's usually paired with Cresselia, it can even tear two giant holes in a team (thanks to Healing Wish). Also once it's set up PuP most slower, non-steel pokemon are pretty much OHKO'd.

I still think Kang deserves S-Rank. Then again, I don't really use it myself, so I'm not 10000% sure.

 

[Hulavuta]

Nah, I wouldn't say it has fallen at all, just that it was "a little worn down." Usage doesn't equate viability either (Garchomp is #1 for example but it's not really overpowered at all), although I'd agree I still think it's very good. I also wouldn't say its versatility is what makes it good either, Kanga mostly runs the predictable set but really it's pretty reliable even if your opponent knows it's coming. I think it is still S-Rank, but maybe we should think about putting some other things in S-Rank along with it, and move Aegislash down.

 

[PPB]

Usage doesn't equate viability either (Garchomp is #1 for example but it's not really overpowered at all)

That's true, but it usually reflects it pretty well, especially since you need a rating of 1600 to show up so if you're not serious at all or using a bunch of unviable Pokemon, they won't be listed. Garchomp may not be overpowered but it is is an amazing pokemon because it's really reliable; for instance, it makes a great focus sash lead or scarf revenge killer. It's even listed here at A+, and I think mega Kangaskhan is clearly better than Garchomp, just with more opportunity cost because it needs the stone, so it still deserves to outrank Chomp imo.

I also think Kanga is metagame defining, because of how many pokes run Rocky Helmet.

 

[Hulavuta]

I agree completely, which is what the rest of my post said :)

 

[freekhoorn]

Im gonna nominate

Volcarona B+ rank

It has great offensive capabilities with its fire bug STABs, has one of the best boosting moves in quiver dance, and can get hp back with giga drain. Its special offense is really high, And it speed is also good with base 100. It is frail ln the physical side and it is 4x weak against rocks, wich is a low point, cause a lot of pokemon run rock tomb on garchomp or breloom, and stealth rock is a common move.

I think it fits on the same level as other b+ moves, it works well against the common pokemon aegislash and fire is a really good offensive and defensive type at the moment imo.

I already said something about volcarona so im reposting this. Does everyone agree or thinks something else of him? After one quiver dance volcarona can rip trough unprepared teams imo. I see it kinda frequent and im always happy i run power gem on my mega ampharos.

 

[Funbot28]

A+ ---> S

Can setup on a variety of the meta game with minimal effort thanks to superb bulk, and intimidate. Once it setups, there is no stopping this monster. It can even run substitute and refresh for status. His coverage is also amazing, letting it choose what walls it (besides Rotom-W). Top tier threat.

 

[Jibaku]

Refresh is illegal on Mence.