Hey man I'm no ranking member and great post but I have to ask, what does swallow have over staraptor, besides the 25 extra speed, which I admit is a good niche, but staraptor can run scarf (it only runs band or scarf) which kinda defeats the purpose of the extra speed. I'm on mobile so I can't calc but these two both share the same typing and similar coverage. I'll probably calc in the morning, but if scarf reckless double edge does around the same as guts facade, is there a point to run this over staraptor. I won't say "swellows on a timer with guts" cause that's another comparison I draw, they both kill themselves fairly quickly, but (hopefully) kill 1-2 Pokemon before going down. Pursuit is a cool niche, considering it outspeeds the stuff it's trying to trap. I won't knock this post without because it was an elaborate post you clearly put thought into, but if you could elaborate what this does over scarf raptor, I can/will get behind this.
Swellow to D-rank.
Let me start this off by saying this is a 100% serious post (because this kind of nomination ordinarily attracts a "stop trolling" response). Also, I haven't seen anyone else use this in OU and tbh i haven't seen it anywhere outside of randbats (because i don't play NU/RU or whatever tier this is actually in) so i'll try and be thorough with my explanation.
Basically, Guts Facade (210 BP after STAB) + a base 125 speed tier is what Swellow is all about. This allows Swellow to outspeed most of OU (save for few things such as Mega Lop/Zam/Beedrill/Scep, Scarf Lan-t/Keld etc) and then proceed to OHKO them with rocks up and if not, 2HKO a good chunk of the remaining fatter portion.
Notable Calcs:
- 252 Atk Guts Swellow Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 174-205 (44.1 - 52%) -- 75.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
- 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 168-198 (42.6 - 50.2%) -- 39.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
The beauty of Guts Facade is that you only end up taking around 18% recoil over 2 turns (6%+12%) which actually gives Swellow some level of survivability though i'll concede that taking 25% SR damage on a switch isn't ideal. On otherhand, it hits harder than Mega Pinsir. Facade + Brave Bird actually has really good coverage and hits everything bar Steels and Rocks which it can easily outspeed and U-turn out of. That being said, Guts Facade actually hits Steel/Rock resists quite hard such that Guts Facade followed by U-turn on 252HP Heatran allows you to 2HKO it with SR next time you switch in for example and as explained above, Guts Facade + U-turn + SR can take out Scarf Ttar 55% of the time. Mega Diancie is similarly 2HKOd by Guts Facade as above.
- 252 Atk Guts Swellow Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 118-140 (48.9 - 58%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
- 252 Atk Guts Swellow Facade (140 BP) vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Latias: 280-331 (87.7 - 103.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
- 252 Atk Guts Swellow Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 205-243 (52 - 61.6%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
- 252 Atk Guts Swellow Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 280-331 (86.6 - 102.4%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
- 252 Atk Guts Swellow Facade (140 BP) vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Rotom-W: 181-214 (59.7 - 70.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
- 252 Atk Guts Swellow Facade (140 BP) vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 309-364 (84.8 - 100%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
- 252 Atk Guts Swellow Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 148-175 (42 - 49.7%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock, 1 layer of Spikes, and Leftovers recovery (dat recoil tho)
- Scarf Tyranitar takes between 80.9-95.7% from a combination of switching into Guts Facade + being handily outsped and hit by Guts U-turn which is a range of 93.4-108.2% after SR damage. i.e. a 55% chance to 2HKO with SR up
The things holding Swellow back (and why i'm hesitant to nom any higher than D-rank) is because it has garbage bulk (60/60/50 lol) which makes it extremely vulnerable to priority in a tier flooded with priority and a SR weakness. Swellow's incredible speed tier on the other hand gives it a good chance to kill most things before they actually have an opportunity to touch it if they lack priority. Despite this, it needs Toxic Orb to be active to actually inflict any kind of damage with its pitiful base 85 Atk. Ferrothorn + Rocky Helmet Garchomp being extremely common doesn't really help out Swellow (but tbh all OU birds are somewhat held back by this).
While Swellow threatens the OHKO on pokemon such as Lati@s, Gengar and Starmie, they can all switch out of Swellow and then force Swellow to take recoil from something like Ferrothorn or Rocky Helmet Garchomp. However, running Pursuit alleviates this issue and allows Swellow to trap and eliminate them and thereby not be completely useless:
(for the following calcs, Crunch replaces a Pursuit trap, i.e. 80 BP Pursuit)
In experimenting with Swellow in OU, i've found Rotom-w to be a really good partner in that it takes most priority that Swellow despises such as Bullet Punch and Aqua Jet and also provides a slow volt switch to bring in Swellow safely and allow Toxic Orb to activate.
- 252 Atk Guts Swellow Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 238-280 (79.5 - 93.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
- 252 Atk Guts Swellow Crunch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 296-350 (112.9 - 133.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
- 252 Atk Guts Swellow Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 226-266 (86.5 - 101.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
I'll admit that i originally tried out Swellow as a joke just to troll a friend but over the past few days it's actually put in a ridiculous amount of work. However, like a complete idiot, i forgot to save replays of Swellow in action so i will update this post when i remember to save some.
tl;dr Swellow hits like a truck with Guts Facade and outspeeds the majority of the tier with base 125 spe. There's a bunch of random crap currently in D-rank and i believe Swellow is actually more usable than most of them.
On a side note, this is also encouragement for everyone to get out there and try new stuff. As much as everyone rags on ORAS OU, it's extremely diverse and a lot of fun and overlooked Pokemon are actually usable.
Also, shoutouts Tom Bus for believing in the power.
Swellow @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Facade
- U-turn
- Pursuit
Thanks for reading.
Peace,
daft.
Swellow to D-rank.
Let me start this off by saying this is a 100% serious post (because this kind of nomination ordinarily attracts a "stop trolling" response). Also, I haven't seen anyone else use this in OU and tbh i haven't seen it anywhere outside of randbats (because i don't play NU/RU or whatever tier this is actually in) so i'll try and be thorough with my explanation.
Basically, Guts Facade (210 BP after STAB) + a base 125 speed tier is what Swellow is all about. This allows Swellow to outspeed most of OU (save for few things such as Mega Lop/Zam/Beedrill/Scep, Scarf Lan-t/Keld etc) and then proceed to OHKO them with rocks up and if not, 2HKO a good chunk of the remaining fatter portion.
Notable Calcs:
- 252 Atk Guts Swellow Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 174-205 (44.1 - 52%) -- 75.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
- 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 168-198 (42.6 - 50.2%) -- 39.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
The beauty of Guts Facade is that you only end up taking around 18% recoil over 2 turns (6%+12%) which actually gives Swellow some level of survivability though i'll concede that taking 25% SR damage on a switch isn't ideal. On otherhand, it hits harder than Mega Pinsir. Facade + Brave Bird actually has really good coverage and hits everything bar Steels and Rocks which it can easily outspeed and U-turn out of. That being said, Guts Facade actually hits Steel/Rock resists quite hard such that Guts Facade followed by U-turn on 252HP Heatran allows you to 2HKO it with SR next time you switch in for example and as explained above, Guts Facade + U-turn + SR can take out Scarf Ttar 55% of the time. Mega Diancie is similarly 2HKOd by Guts Facade as above.
- 252 Atk Guts Swellow Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Diancie: 118-140 (48.9 - 58%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
- 252 Atk Guts Swellow Facade (140 BP) vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Latias: 280-331 (87.7 - 103.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
- 252 Atk Guts Swellow Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 205-243 (52 - 61.6%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
- 252 Atk Guts Swellow Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 280-331 (86.6 - 102.4%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
- 252 Atk Guts Swellow Facade (140 BP) vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Rotom-W: 181-214 (59.7 - 70.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
- 252 Atk Guts Swellow Facade (140 BP) vs. 92 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 309-364 (84.8 - 100%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
- 252 Atk Guts Swellow Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 148-175 (42 - 49.7%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock, 1 layer of Spikes, and Leftovers recovery (dat recoil tho)
- Scarf Tyranitar takes between 80.9-95.7% from a combination of switching into Guts Facade + being handily outsped and hit by Guts U-turn which is a range of 93.4-108.2% after SR damage. i.e. a 55% chance to 2HKO with SR up
The things holding Swellow back (and why i'm hesitant to nom any higher than D-rank) is because it has garbage bulk (60/60/50 lol) which makes it extremely vulnerable to priority in a tier flooded with priority and a SR weakness. Swellow's incredible speed tier on the other hand gives it a good chance to kill most things before they actually have an opportunity to touch it if they lack priority. Despite this, it needs Toxic Orb to be active to actually inflict any kind of damage with its pitiful base 85 Atk. Ferrothorn + Rocky Helmet Garchomp being extremely common doesn't really help out Swellow (but tbh all OU birds are somewhat held back by this).
While Swellow threatens the OHKO on pokemon such as Lati@s, Gengar and Starmie, they can all switch out of Swellow and then force Swellow to take recoil from something like Ferrothorn or Rocky Helmet Garchomp. However, running Pursuit alleviates this issue and allows Swellow to trap and eliminate them and thereby not be completely useless:
(for the following calcs, Crunch replaces a Pursuit trap, i.e. 80 BP Pursuit)
In experimenting with Swellow in OU, i've found Rotom-w to be a really good partner in that it takes most priority that Swellow despises such as Bullet Punch and Aqua Jet and also provides a slow volt switch to bring in Swellow safely and allow Toxic Orb to activate.
- 252 Atk Guts Swellow Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Latios: 238-280 (79.5 - 93.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
- 252 Atk Guts Swellow Crunch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 296-350 (112.9 - 133.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
- 252 Atk Guts Swellow Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 226-266 (86.5 - 101.9%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
I'll admit that i originally tried out Swellow as a joke just to troll a friend but over the past few days it's actually put in a ridiculous amount of work. However, like a complete idiot, i forgot to save replays of Swellow in action so i will update this post when i remember to save some.
tl;dr Swellow hits like a truck with Guts Facade and outspeeds the majority of the tier with base 125 spe. There's a bunch of random crap currently in D-rank and i believe Swellow is actually more usable than most of them.
On a side note, this is also encouragement for everyone to get out there and try new stuff. As much as everyone rags on ORAS OU, it's extremely diverse and a lot of fun and overlooked Pokemon are actually usable.
Also, shoutouts Tom Bus for believing in the power.
Swellow @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Guts
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Facade
- U-turn
- Pursuit
Thanks for reading.
Peace,
daft.
Without commenting on whether or not they warrant its use, I do think there are a few differences between the two that can be brought up.
Mega Gyarados: A > A+
Manaphy: A > A+
Infernape: C > C+
Hydreigon: B > B+
Scizor: Stays in B
Mega Ampharos: Stays in C
Mega Houndoom: Stays in B-
Mega Pidgeot: Stays in C+
Chansey: B+ > BI know I've been doing a lot of one liners lately, but it IS outclassed. Exploud does the Boomburst job better, the only reason Specs Swellow is used in NU is because Exploud is RU by usage and Swellow is like the only other thing besides Chatot and some other stuff that gets it, flying STAB is an argument but tbh Exploud pulls off the bewmbarst set much better than Swellow can dream. Although I could see a rise for it with the Guts Facade set, working as a fast pivot with an excellent speed tier and Guts boosted attack, yeah, it's strong, frailty is a problem and as with the case of 75% of all physical birds, it dies to recoil fast.
I really think this logic isn't good enough to keep Clefable out of S rank. Yes, the opponent can obviously see what ability Clefable is, but this isn't really that important. Magic Guard sets sometimes run Thunder Wave and Fire-types that try to set up on it will just get crippled. Obviously unaware sets can get worn down pretty quickly, but lots of clefable sets run some sort of recovery whether it be moonlight or wish; many clefable (what's the plural of clefable o.O) also run heal bell which is nice to remove status conditions. Hazard stacking and shuffling isn't that big of a problem considering almost all teams pack some kind of hazard removal and being immune to a pretty common phazing move (dragon tail) is also pretty nice for clefable.
two words and two moves: no guard, hurricane, heat wave. It's slightly more reliable. I'm not saying it's gr8, as torn t gets knock off and regen, but it has a reason to be used over torn. Plus you could easily use them both as a new age bird spam squad.
